# Free Will

Old Seer
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Free Will

I've been giving the "Free Will" idea some thought. Does one have free will or not. We know that there are many circumstances when one dosen't.

Case -1. You plan a walk from point A to point B. Along the way the walk is taking longer then predicted. You pass by a person sitting aside the road and ask---how far is it to point B. The person says--about 4 miles. So, onward you go and at about 2 miles you come to a fork in the road. Q- Is the choice to go right or left a matter of free will. You didn't have any previous information that there was a fork in the road, because you've never traveled this road before. Free will Y/N

Case 2, The same walk- When you encounter the person this time the answer is, about 4 miles and taKe a left at the fork. Here we have information that may come to bear on free will. When you get to the fork in the it wouldn't make sense to take the way to the right, correct. BUT, do you have free will to reject the person's directions, of course it would be silly to disregard it.  But in this case facts are known that interfere with free will.

Free will may have a large dependance on "what" one knows and doesn't know. Q- would this mean that free will has alot to do with one's ability to use logic. Then--would "guessing" have more to do with free will then logic if one isn't knowledgable on a particular subject at hand.

Case 3- You get to the fork in the road and off in the distance on the road to the right there is another left on it which you can see.  Logically one would dismiss the road to the right on all counts---BUT- is that everyone. Here we have training that comes into the works. If one is trained to rekon an order of importance from left to right (as I was as a child) one could then find it logical to assume that one would have to take the road immediatly to the left. But, if one hasn't been trained on an order of importance  one could esily misconstrue the information and choose to go right and then left. What do you think?

I would take the road immediatly to the left. As I was growing up order of things goes from left to right, but not in "all"cases. For example. A page has 4 pictues on it two side by side -top, two side by side- bottom. The discriptions of the pictures are written below the pics from top-left to right, then bottom left to right. I've noticed a change in standards recently. The discriptions of the pics can be in any order and one has to decern which discription goes with what picture.  Bringing this to-----

What I think is---we have a free will, but very limited and applies mostly to what one doesn't know. .

What thinketh ye.

The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.

Knowledge trumps faith and I'm not a Theist

Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth

Beyond Saving
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It seems like the

It seems like the scenarios you created have more to do with the question of whether or not free will is useful or effective since we usually act with very little information, as opposed to whether or not it exists. It is quite possible that it exists but isn't particularly useful since as humans there is always far more that we don't know compared to what we know. Most of the time we make decisions without even knowing most of what we possibly could know, let alone the thousands of variables we couldn't reasonably know.

As for free will itself, it is impossible to prove or disprove. However, I think the only logical option is to assume it exists, because if it doesn't exist, there is absolutely nothing you could do to change your belief anyway. So either you are right, or it doesn't matter.

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X

Old Seer
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I'm quit well

in agreement with you. It seems the more ignorant one is the more they have free will. At the Y in the road I have no information as to go left or right. But as soon as I learn which way to go I have no choice other then not making sense and go the wrog way on purpose. That's silly. But before I know the way I have free will to make the choice because I have no clues without the help of the  person on the side of the road. Being we are in a world that has been planned for us by ancestors it looks as though the course is fixed. That leaves one with only a minor need or use of free will.

In high school I remember being taught in economics class to consider the advantages and disadvantages before making a decision. Ok, so, that means that the best option leaves me no choice but to choose it, hence, freewill is overriden. I can't find much that I need free will for, most everything is already in a set pattern. Evolution alone has alot to say about free will in yes or no. I'm thinking logic plays a bigger  part then free will.

The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.

Knowledge trumps faith and I'm not a Theist

Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth

Beyond Saving
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Except the vast majority

Except the vast majority of decisions we make don't have objectively right or wrong results the way directions do. What you eat, what you wear, who you develop relationships with, what career you pursue, what education you seek etc. Are all subjective and thus you cannot arrive at which choice is best using logic. There is no objectively "best" decision.

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X

EXC
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I think the Many Worlds

I think the Many Worlds interpretation of quantum physics is the most reasonable explaination of quantum phenomena. This implies that when you come to a fork in the road, you take it. Many versions of  you would take it left, many versions right, many versions would turn around and go back the way you came. Anything that is possible plays out in some parallel universe. So free will is an illusion, you probably don't have any control over quantum phenomena.

Old Seer wrote:

What I think is---we have a free will, but very limited and applies mostly to what one doesn't know. .

What thinketh ye.

I believe there are many versions of you that believe in free will and many versions of you that do not believe in free will and many versions of you that can't decide if there is free will.

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen

Vastet
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The existence of infinite

The existence of infinite parallel dimensions in which everything that could have been was has no impact on whether or not free will exists. It could easily be argued that such would absolutely prove free will exists.

Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.

digitalbeachbum
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I don't believe in free

I don't believe in free will in the sense that I picked out what car I want to drive or what toppings I wanted on my pizza. I believe only in free emotion or the free will to choose how you react to your environment.

iwbiek
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i have never understood why

i have never understood why so many people think this question is important. what constitutes "free will" is entirely subjective anyway.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson