The Foley Beheading

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The Foley Beheading

 The audio is available at the BBC website and they have identified one of the killers as having a "British" accent.

www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28867627

The White House has confirmed that a jihadist video showing the beheading of American journalist James Foley is authentic.

The Islamic State (IS) group released the video on Tuesday, saying Foley's killing was revenge for US air strikes on its fighters in Iraq.

The US, UK and France have expressed abhorrence at the video.

Foley's mother Diane said he "gave his life trying to expose the world to the suffering of the Syrian people."

President Barack Obama is due to give a statement later.

Foley, 40, has reported extensively across the Middle East, working for US publication GlobalPost and other media outlets including French news agency AFP.

In a statement, GlobalPost asked for "prayers for Jim and his family".

British accent

Clearly under duress, he says: "I call on my friends, family and loved ones to rise up against my real killers, the US government, for what will happen to me is only a result of their complacency and criminality."

Then the masked militant, who speaks with a British accent, delivers a warning to the US government: "You are no longer fighting an insurgency. We are an Islamic army and a state that has been accepted by a large number of Muslims worldwide.

"So any attempt by you Obama to deny the Muslims their rights of living in safety under the Islamic caliphate will result in the bloodshed of your people."

After he speaks, the militant appears to start cutting at his captive's neck before the video fades to black.

His body is then seen on the ground.

Another captive, identified as American journalist Steven Sotloff, is shown at the end, with the warning that his fate depends on President Barack Obama's next move.

Mr Sotloff was abducted in northern Syria a year ago.

'Cowardly assassination'

French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius had earlier said that if James Foley's death was confirmed, "this cowardly assassination would show the true face of this caliphate of barbarism".

In the video, titled A Message to America, a man identified as James Foley is dressed in an orange jumpsuit, kneeling in desert-like terrain beside an armed man dressed in black.

He gives a message to his family and links his imminent death to the US government's bombing campaign of IS targets in Iraq.

Analysis: BBC Security Correspondent Frank Gardner

Shocking as it is, the video of James Foley being beheaded by a masked jihadist is not without precedent.

In 2004 al-Qaeda's offshoot in Iraq, led by Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi, the forerunners of Islamic State (IS), did the same thing to Nick Berg, a hapless American telecoms engineer who fell into their clutches.

The group went on to murder Briton Ken Bigley in the same way, after first getting him to plead on camera with the then Prime Minister Tony Blair to change Britain's course in Iraq.

These grisly murder videos are abhorrent to most Muslims and non-Muslims alike and they've even been discouraged by Osama Bin Ladin's successor as a "vote loser".

But for the hard-core jihadists of IS they serve a number of purposes: to horrify and scare their enemies, to boost the morale of their own by showing the impotence of the West to prevent it, and thereby to embarrass the US and Britain, with the hope of making them temper their military actions in Iraq.

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


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This is to be expected. It's

This is to be expected. It's unfortunate and could have been prevented by Bush never having a term in office, but it's too late for that. Cleaning up this mess is going to cost a number of lives.

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 The only thing about Bush

 The only thing about Bush Sr's war I didn't like was that he didn't finish it. You could argue that even the first one we should not have done, but at least with that one we were invited. The second one was sold to us based on a lie.

I think our forgien policy has sucked since WW2. I think our war hawks even forget the history of Jefferson in his support of the French Revolution. Just because you do something does not mean the outcome will end up the way you want. 

 

I am not an isolationist either, but I think we need to stop thinking WW2 tactics still apply. 

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If Bush Sr. had 'finished

If Bush Sr. had 'finished the job', then ISIS likely would have started in the 90's instead of now. The toppling of Saddam Hussein is directly responsible for allowing Al Qaeda into Iraq. 9/11 likely would have been a much bigger event with more resources and personnel available to Al Qaeda. Bush Sr did exactly the right thing when he left Saddam in power.

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Terrorists are the dumb and

Terrorists are the dumb and ignorant mofo's of the world. They fight a losing battle against 7 billion people. They kill innocent people of all races, creeds and nationalities. They use their resources to purchase ammo and fight a war they can not manage. They expect to have a country under their control but the world will not have it. They will never succeed.

They use a beheading of a journalist to strike fear in the public. Who fucking cares? The public doesn't. They are numb already with 20 years of war and beheadings. We see it on the internet and we see worse. We see children and women who are innocent being raped and beaten. We see far worse deaths that take many weeks or months to finish. A beheading, no matter how dramatic, loses potency over time. We just don't give a shit.

The terrorists would be better off forming a corporation. They could take over businesses which sell natural resources. They could use their money to buy stock and slowly take over an entire market. Hostile take overs. Selling off those smaller companies to make a profit. After 20-30 years they would be left with billions and they could influence countries and people in to Islam.

I'm sorry the family lost a loved one, but tens of thousands, no hundreds of thousands have lost their life in this war in far worse conditions.

 


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Vastet wrote:If Bush Sr. had

Vastet wrote:
If Bush Sr. had 'finished the job', then ISIS likely would have started in the 90's instead of now. The toppling of Saddam Hussein is directly responsible for allowing Al Qaeda into Iraq. 9/11 likely would have been a much bigger event with more resources and personnel available to Al Qaeda. Bush Sr did exactly the right thing when he left Saddam in power.

Bush Jr had the IQ of a spoiled ham. He was the worst president in my time, definitley in my top ten list of ignorant presidents.


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Vastet wrote:If Bush Sr. had

Vastet wrote:
If Bush Sr. had 'finished the job', then ISIS likely would have started in the 90's instead of now. The toppling of Saddam Hussein is directly responsible for allowing Al Qaeda into Iraq. 9/11 likely would have been a much bigger event with more resources and personnel available to Al Qaeda. Bush Sr did exactly the right thing when he left Saddam in power.

Well that is why I say you could make that case, but we were still invited. It would take something like the reconstruction like we did with Japan and Germany, but a bit too late and we are already drained to do anything like that right now.

I still do not think we can be isolationists either. Dont really know what we can do long term other than pick what we can do, limit it, and not play world's police. 

We really do have a bad habit of playing all sides of the middle east off of each other stupidly hoping that if we do one side will magically come arround. But then again the weapons industry and big oil are a market everyone is invested in and turmoil drives up prices.

But out of all the things I cannot dissagree on is tha Bush Jr caused this mess.

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digitalbeachbum

digitalbeachbum wrote:

Terrorists are the dumb and ignorant mofo's of the world. They fight a losing battle against 7 billion people. They kill innocent people of all races, creeds and nationalities. They use their resources to purchase ammo and fight a war they can not manage. They expect to have a country under their control but the world will not have it. They will never succeed.

They use a beheading of a journalist to strike fear in the public. Who fucking cares? The public doesn't. They are numb already with 20 years of war and beheadings. We see it on the internet and we see worse. We see children and women who are innocent being raped and beaten. We see far worse deaths that take many weeks or months to finish. A beheading, no matter how dramatic, loses potency over time. We just don't give a shit.

The terrorists would be better off forming a corporation. They could take over businesses which sell natural resources. They could use their money to buy stock and slowly take over an entire market. Hostile take overs. Selling off those smaller companies to make a profit. After 20-30 years they would be left with billions and they could influence countries and people in to Islam.

I'm sorry the family lost a loved one, but tens of thousands, no hundreds of thousands have lost their life in this war in far worse conditions.

 

Yea these amature piss ants stupidly think by kidnapping people or murdering them the west will magically bow. Now could argue that a goverment enemy of the west, could drag us into WW3 , but a pee wee leage of nuts wont do that. Not even China will fuck with us because they make too much money off the rest of the world.

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The real problem with the

The real problem with the Islamic States PR tactics is that Mexican drug cartels are actually more vicious, and closer to home. Who can get particularly upset at a beheading done largely off camera when videos coming out of Mexico show the whole thing? Who hasn't heard of or actually seen the chainsaw beheading that was released a year or two ago (the chainsaw was actually the easy part to watch, compared to what came after)?

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Vastet wrote:The real

Vastet wrote:
The real problem with the Islamic States PR tactics is that Mexican drug cartels are actually more vicious, and closer to home. Who can get particularly upset at a beheading done largely off camera when videos coming out of Mexico show the whole thing? Who hasn't heard of or actually seen the chainsaw beheading that was released a year or two ago (the chainsaw was actually the easy part to watch, compared to what came after)?

The death of a loved one allows the family to start bereaving. I believe it would have been worse to keep those people alive and occassionaly show video of them.


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Mmmm

 

 

 

"Religion is worth the name only so long as it is in consonance with reason. If it fails to satisfy that requisite, if it has to make up for its discomfiture in argument by handling the sword, it needs no other argument for its falsification. The sword it wields cuts its own throat before reaching others."

  Mirza Ghulam Ahmad

 

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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Atheistextremist

Atheistextremist wrote:

 

 

 

"Religion is worth the name only so long as it is in consonance with reason. If it fails to satisfy that requisite, if it has to make up for its discomfiture in argument by handling the sword, it needs no other argument for its falsification. The sword it wields cuts its own throat before reaching others."

  Mirza Ghulam Ahmad

 

 

 




ah, mirza ghulam ahmad, the mahdi of the ahmadiyya movement in the punjab, a movement considered heretical by much of the muslim world, especially in india and pakistan. the ahmadiyyas preach nonaggression, perhaps an outgrowth of islam's contact with hindu thought. mirza ghulam ahmad, and his most famous spokeman maulana muhammad ali, are two 19th/20th-century devout muslims i admire. maulana muhammad ali's english translation of the quran is still one of the most popular in the world, even with muslims who have a problem with the ahmadiyya movement.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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Groups like IS need to be

Groups like IS need to be seen to be fighting "The West" to justify their own continued existence. To do that, they of course have to provoke us first, which is what all this psychotic barbarism is about.

I just saw what looks like a nine year old holding up a severed head. If crap like that works, they're just going to keep doing it.

 

As cruel as it sounds, if at all possible, it's probably best to ignore them.


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Antipatris wrote:I just saw

Antipatris wrote:

I just saw what looks like a nine year old holding up a severed head. If crap like that works, they're just going to keep doing it.

As cruel as it sounds, if at all possible, it's probably best to ignore them.

I've often wondered the lottery of life and being born in to a family of these types of extremeists. I only have a few in my family that would have been radical about the religion. If any one would have tried to make me hold a severed head I would have told them no and snuck out in to the desert to get away from them.

Based on the fasination of all the people WANTING to see the act/head I think the processes is counter productive. I think it would be a great mind fuck if the public cheered and asked for them to produce another one.


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Vastet wrote:The real

Vastet wrote:
The real problem with the Islamic States PR tactics is that Mexican drug cartels are actually more vicious, and closer to home. Who can get particularly upset at a beheading done largely off camera when videos coming out of Mexico show the whole thing? Who hasn't heard of or actually seen the chainsaw beheading that was released a year or two ago (the chainsaw was actually the easy part to watch, compared to what came after)?

Oh yea, I stumbled accross that video of the drug gang beheading those women. Don't know if you saw it but that was the sickest thing I ever have seen in my life outside the pictures of the Holocaust.

This is what I mean by we are all the same species. We as a species produce both cruelty and compassion. The only thing that can increase peace and reduce violence is economic stability. The less disparity the more people have what they need, the less likely they are to get that desperate to the point of violence. Yes, you will always have greedy pricks who do not give a fuck. 

 

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digitalbeachbum wrote: They

digitalbeachbum wrote:
They could use their money to buy stock and slowly take over an entire market. Hostile take overs. Selling off those smaller companies to make a profit. After 20-30 years they would be left with billions and they could influence countries and people in to Islam.

Buying stock doesn't give you a trip to heaven.

 

 

 

Lol.

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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butterbattle

butterbattle wrote:

digitalbeachbum wrote:
They could use their money to buy stock and slowly take over an entire market. Hostile take overs. Selling off those smaller companies to make a profit. After 20-30 years they would be left with billions and they could influence countries and people in to Islam.

Buying stock doesn't give you a trip to heaven.

Lol.

True, but defeating your enemy is another angle to getting in.


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Brian37 wrote:Oh yea, I

Brian37 wrote:

Oh yea, I stumbled accross that video of the drug gang beheading those women

You stumbled across it? What did you google to bring up a video called "drug gang beheading women"?


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I never heard of one with

I never heard of one with women in it. I saw one with two guys getting killed. They were forced to confess to ratting out some gang members and then shit got nasty.

Though not directed at me, digitals question could have been. So I'll answer anyway: it was a news headline that caught my eye. No search was necessary.

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Vastet wrote:I never heard

Vastet wrote:
I never heard of one with women in it. I saw one with two guys getting killed. They were forced to confess to ratting out some gang members and then shit got nasty. Though not directed at me, digitals question could have been. So I'll answer anyway: it was a news headline that caught my eye. No search was necessary.

No, it was at Brian because he said he "stumbled" on to it. I was just wondering what the hell he was looking for when he stumbled.

"Yeah I was looking for a way to make my own tree fort for my kids when I clicked on this link and it had a video of some whores being beheaded..."

 


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digitalbeachbum wrote:Vastet

digitalbeachbum wrote:

Vastet wrote:
I never heard of one with women in it. I saw one with two guys getting killed. They were forced to confess to ratting out some gang members and then shit got nasty. Though not directed at me, digitals question could have been. So I'll answer anyway: it was a news headline that caught my eye. No search was necessary.

No, it was at Brian because he said he "stumbled" on to it. I was just wondering what the hell he was looking for when he stumbled.

"Yeah I was looking for a way to make my own tree fort for my kids when I clicked on this link and it had a video of some whores being beheaded..."

 

It was on page 7,394 of a google search for the word "evolution"

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Brian37 wrote:The only thing

Brian37 wrote:

The only thing that can increase peace and reduce violence is economic stability. The less disparity the more people have what they need, the less likely they are to get that desperate to the point of violence.  

Then how do you explain pretty much every empire in history? The vast majority of wars started in the world were started by people with significant levels of wealth.

These terroist nuts aren't hurting for money. Bin Laden was worth tens of millions, estimates put ISIS being worth several billion and have the funding and support of some of the richest people in the world. These aren't poor oppressed people acting out. The guy in the video is fucking British, and I guarantee he wasn't poor British. Almost certainly, he is the son of some upper middle class if not wealthy family.

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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+1

iwbiek wrote:
Atheistextremist wrote:

 

 

 

"Religion is worth the name only so long as it is in consonance with reason. If it fails to satisfy that requisite, if it has to make up for its discomfiture in argument by handling the sword, it needs no other argument for its falsification. The sword it wields cuts its own throat before reaching others."

  Mirza Ghulam Ahmad

 

 

 


ah, mirza ghulam ahmad, the mahdi of the ahmadiyya movement in the punjab, a movement considered heretical by much of the muslim world, especially in india and pakistan. the ahmadiyyas preach nonaggression, perhaps an outgrowth of islam's contact with hindu thought. mirza ghulam ahmad, and his most famous spokeman maulana muhammad ali, are two 19th/20th-century devout muslims i admire. maulana muhammad ali's english translation of the quran is still one of the most popular in the world, even with muslims who have a problem with the ahmadiyya movement.

 

+1

 

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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Beyond Saving

Beyond Saving wrote:

digitalbeachbum wrote:

Vastet wrote:
I never heard of one with women in it. I saw one with two guys getting killed. They were forced to confess to ratting out some gang members and then shit got nasty. Though not directed at me, digitals question could have been. So I'll answer anyway: it was a news headline that caught my eye. No search was necessary.

No, it was at Brian because he said he "stumbled" on to it. I was just wondering what the hell he was looking for when he stumbled.

"Yeah I was looking for a way to make my own tree fort for my kids when I clicked on this link and it had a video of some whores being beheaded..."

 

It was on page 7,394 of a google search for the word "evolution"

<coughs though nose> LMFAO


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Beyond Saving wrote:Brian37

Beyond Saving wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

The only thing that can increase peace and reduce violence is economic stability. The less disparity the more people have what they need, the less likely they are to get that desperate to the point of violence.  

Then how do you explain pretty much every empire in history? The vast majority of wars started in the world were started by people with significant levels of wealth.

These terroist nuts aren't hurting for money. Bin Laden was worth tens of millions, estimates put ISIS being worth several billion and have the funding and support of some of the richest people in the world. These aren't poor oppressed people acting out. The guy in the video is fucking British, and I guarantee he wasn't poor British. Almost certainly, he is the son of some upper middle class if not wealthy family.

Can I hear an Amen!


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digitalbeachbum

digitalbeachbum wrote:

Terrorists are the dumb and ignorant mofo's of the world. They fight a losing battle against 7 billion people. They kill innocent people of all races, creeds and nationalities. They use their resources to purchase ammo and fight a war they can not manage. They expect to have a country under their control but the world will not have it. They will never succeed.

They use a beheading of a journalist to strike fear in the public. Who fucking cares? The public doesn't. They are numb already with 20 years of war and beheadings. We see it on the internet and we see worse. We see children and women who are innocent being raped and beaten. We see far worse deaths that take many weeks or months to finish. A beheading, no matter how dramatic, loses potency over time. We just don't give a shit.

The terrorists would be better off forming a corporation. They could take over businesses which sell natural resources. They could use their money to buy stock and slowly take over an entire market. Hostile take overs. Selling off those smaller companies to make a profit. After 20-30 years they would be left with billions and they could influence countries and people in to Islam.

I'm sorry the family lost a loved one, but tens of thousands, no hundreds of thousands have lost their life in this war in far worse conditions.

 

 

            If you really want to see what ISIS is up to, use google image, search term "ISIS beheading children in Mosul Park" and be sure to turn off your adult filter.  I already have an extremely low opinion of humanity in general but I am now certain misanthropy is the only rational way to view other humans.   Human cruelty has never been a rare occurence.  I am sick of humanity.

  I woudn't even wish this shit on Jean Chauvin and he's a piece of human garbage.

 

                                                                         

 

 

 

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ProzacDeathWish

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

            If you really want to see what ISIS is up to, use google image, search term "ISIS beheading children in Mosul Park" and be sure to turn off your adult filter.  I already have an extremely low opinion of humanity in general but I am now certain misanthropy is the only rational way to view other humans.   Human cruelty has never been a rare occurence.  I am sick of humanity.

  I woudn't even wish this shit on Jean Chauvin and he's a piece of human garbage. 

My father told me when I was a young lad, that an American general was fighting Islamic extremists in the philippines.

He told me the extremists were slaughtering villagers and capture missionaries, beheading them, etc. The general, after capturing 15-20 of the shitheads took them to an open trench. He ordered that each of the bullets be dipped in pigs blood (most likely not) and then had each of them shot in the head. When they fell in to the pit they took a bucket of pigs shit and blood and poured it over the dead bodies. The last extremist on the line was left alive. The general told the guy, "All your friends are unclean and won't be going to heaven. Go tell your friends what we will do when we kill them. Apparently it worked. The extremists didn't want to die and not go to heaven. They quit their shit and went back to farming or whatever. Personally. I'd start making videos of pumping live pigs blood in to the fuckers. I'd hook up a intravenous tube from a pig to an extremists and show them still alive but receiving pigs blood. Then watch as the fuckers lay down their weapons and go home.


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digitalbeachbum

digitalbeachbum wrote:

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

            If you really want to see what ISIS is up to, use google image, search term "ISIS beheading children in Mosul Park" and be sure to turn off your adult filter.  I already have an extremely low opinion of humanity in general but I am now certain misanthropy is the only rational way to view other humans.   Human cruelty has never been a rare occurence.  I am sick of humanity.

  I woudn't even wish this shit on Jean Chauvin and he's a piece of human garbage. 

My father told me when I was a young lad, that an American general was fighting Islamic extremists in the philippines.

He told me the extremists were slaughtering villagers and capture missionaries, beheading them, etc. The general, after capturing 15-20 of the shitheads took them to an open trench. He ordered that each of the bullets be dipped in pigs blood (most likely not) and then had each of them shot in the head. When they fell in to the pit they took a bucket of pigs shit and blood and poured it over the dead bodies. The last extremist on the line was left alive. The general told the guy, "All your friends are unclean and won't be going to heaven. Go tell your friends what we will do when we kill them. Apparently it worked. The extremists didn't want to die and not go to heaven. They quit their shit and went back to farming or whatever. Personally. I'd start making videos of pumping live pigs blood in to the fuckers. I'd hook up a intravenous tube from a pig to an extremists and show them still alive but receiving pigs blood. Then watch as the fuckers lay down their weapons and go home.

Such an ingeniously simple idea, it would probably work. I recall a similer scene in a very old movie "King of the Khyber rifles" where the officer threatened to wrap dead Muslims in a pig skin before burial if the didn't behave; they behaved.

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yeah, or that great scene in


yeah, or that great scene in the searchers where john wayne shoots out the dead comanche warrior's eyes so that his ghost has to wander the earth.

it's good to use other's superstitions as a defense if you know how. once here in slovakia i had a hare krishna come up to try to proselytize me (or more likely just get a donation). fyi, hare krishnas are an extreme devotional sect that believe only the worship of krishna is a valid path to liberation. for them, even the other hindu gods are just blind alleys. he greeted me with "hare krishna" and before he could even get into his spiel, i placed my palms together and answered him with "om namah shivaya," which is the most common mantra to shiva. i actually don't think shaivites ever use it as a greeting, but i did anyway. most hare krishnas have dabbled in enough sanskrit to know such a famous mantra, so i figured he would recognize it. it totally threw him and he looked at me almost fearfully before crossing the street to get away from me. it worked much more effectively than just "not interested" or "fuck off."

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
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Well, after all these years

Well, after all these years it apparently isn't true or it is at best undetermined. The General was supposed to be Black Jack Pershing. My brief research found an article saying that a biographer of Gen. Pershing said it would have been against his normal routine as a military officer to do such things. Apparently no witnesses, no records and no news reports.

http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_black_jack_pershing.htm

I also found the ADL calling for an apology from a politician who was passing around a flyer in 2003 trying to convince his fellows to join him in trying to bury extremists with a pig. They apparently will still get in to heaven if they get buried with a pig.

http://archive.adl.org/presrele/dirab_41/4278_41.html

I however find pumping pigs blood in to a ISIS extremist very interesting. I'm wondering what kind of effect it would have on their psyche.


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digitalbeachbum wrote:My

digitalbeachbum wrote:

My father told me when I was a young lad, that an American general was fighting Islamic extremists in the philippines.

He told me the extremists were slaughtering villagers and capture missionaries, beheading them, etc. The general, after capturing 15-20 of the shitheads took them to an open trench. He ordered that each of the bullets be dipped in pigs blood (most likely not) and then had each of them shot in the head. When they fell in to the pit they took a bucket of pigs shit and blood and poured it over the dead bodies. The last extremist on the line was left alive. The general told the guy, "All your friends are unclean and won't be going to heaven. Go tell your friends what we will do when we kill them. Apparently it worked. The extremists didn't want to die and not go to heaven. They quit their shit and went back to farming or whatever. Personally. I'd start making videos of pumping live pigs blood in to the fuckers. I'd hook up a intravenous tube from a pig to an extremists and show them still alive but receiving pigs blood. Then watch as the fuckers lay down their weapons and go home.

 

   The alleged act was attributed to General John J. ( Black Jack ) Pershing though it appears to be an urban legend.    http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_black_jack_pershing.htm

 

    According to this source, Muslims are to avoid eating or touching pork in the same ways that observant Jews are; a violation of this dietary guidline in either religion does not amount to the loss of salvation, ceremonialyl unclean, yes...doomed to Muslim hell...no.

 

  Anyway, I prefer how the KGB resolved a hostage crisis in Lebanon during the 1980's.  Nothing nearly so poetic as pigs blood, just simple Russian "pragmatism".

 

 

 

 

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  Dammit Digital, you just

  Dammit Digital, you just stole my thunder ! 


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ProzacDeathWish wrote:   

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

 

 

  Anyway, I prefer how the KGB resolved a hostage crisis in Lebanon during the 1980's.  Nothing nearly so poetic as pigs blood, just simple Russian "pragmatism".

 

Got to admit the Soivets were way ahead of us on so many things. And they took zero shit from anyone on most matters. One reason why I might have always had some sort of affinity for them. 

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ProzacDeathWish wrote: 

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

  Dammit Digital, you just stole my thunder ! 

Whoa! By 60 seconds or less.


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harleysportster wrote:Got to

harleysportster wrote:

Got to admit the Soivets were way ahead of us on so many things. And they took zero shit from anyone on most matters. One reason why I might have always had some sort of affinity for them. 

 

    I have only limited knowledge of Soviet era tactics but from my academic sources ( books, news articles, etc )  it appears they operate with a completely different mentality than do western armies.   They seem to discriminate less about inflicting collateral damage, sometimes rescued hostages = dead hostages.   Even with super power status they did not prevail in Afghanistan but later withdrew.  Nevertheless, there seems to be a general attitude, perhaps even down to the civilian level, that given the right provocation all bets are off and no quarter shall be given to their opponents.   My opinion at the moment is that attitude is not a left-over manifestaion of communist "methods" but perhaps an even deeper cultural attitude that goes back much further in history.  Anyway, I don't speak from authority on the matter just my impression at the moment.

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ProzacDeathWish

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

harleysportster wrote:

Got to admit the Soivets were way ahead of us on so many things. And they took zero shit from anyone on most matters. One reason why I might have always had some sort of affinity for them. 

 

    I have only limited knowledge of Soviet era tactics but from my academic sources ( books, news articles, etc )  it appears they operate with a completely different mentality than do western armies.   They seem to discriminate less about inflicting collateral damage, sometimes rescued hostages = dead hostages.   Even with super power status they did not prevail in Afghanistan but later withdrew.  Nevertheless, there seems to be a general attitude, perhaps even down to the civilian level, that given the right provocation all bets are off and no quarter shall be given to their opponents.   My opinion at the moment is that attitude is not a left-over manifestaion of communist "methods" but perhaps an even deeper cultural attitude that goes back much further in history.  Anyway, I don't speak from authority on the matter just my impression at the moment.

Everything that I have read on the history of Russia thus far (and I am certainly no expert) would hint that you are right. I know that before I could just dive off into my reading about the Russian Revolution, it was kind of important to get an understanding of Russia BEFORE the revolution. Decembrists, Nihilists and other types of factions that played a part in late 19th century Russia. Oddly enough, one can gain a better understanding of what life must have been like with writers like Dostoevsky and others. But then again, I am no scholar on the matter. 

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
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ProzacDeathWish

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

harleysportster wrote:

Got to admit the Soivets were way ahead of us on so many things. And they took zero shit from anyone on most matters. One reason why I might have always had some sort of affinity for them. 

 

    I have only limited knowledge of Soviet era tactics but from my academic sources ( books, news articles, etc )  it appears they operate with a completely different mentality than do western armies.   They seem to discriminate less about inflicting collateral damage, sometimes rescued hostages = dead hostages.   Even with super power status they did not prevail in Afghanistan but later withdrew.  Nevertheless, there seems to be a general attitude, perhaps even down to the civilian level, that given the right provocation all bets are off and no quarter shall be given to their opponents.   My opinion at the moment is that attitude is not a left-over manifestaion of communist "methods" but perhaps an even deeper cultural attitude that goes back much further in history.  Anyway, I don't speak from authority on the matter just my impression at the moment.

Everything that I have read on the history of Russia thus far (and I am certainly no expert) would hint that you are right. I know that before I could just dive off into my reading about the Russian Revolution, it was kind of important to get an understanding of Russia BEFORE the revolution. Decembrists, Nihilists and other types of factions that played a part in late 19th century Russia. Oddly enough, one can gain a better understanding of what life must have been like with writers like Dostoevsky and others. But then again, I am no scholar on the matter. 

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


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ProzacDeathWish wrote:Even

ProzacDeathWish wrote:
Even with super power status they did not prevail in Afghanistan but later withdrew.

The US also didn't prevail in Afghanistan, even with help from NATO. The Taliban have become rather proud of their eviction of the two strongest nation's on Earth in less than 50 years.

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and britain didn't prevail

and britain didn't prevail in the american colonies, america didn't prevail in korea, vietnam, iraq, or afghanistan. it's just nearly impossible for any foreign army to conquer people on their native soil without strong collaberation from large sectors of those people. the romans and british did so well precisely because they used military action as an absolute last resort, and even then history shows us that their empires couldn't be sustained longer than a couple centuries. nowadays, with ease of communication, high literacy, and free exchange of ideas, empires are pretty much impossible.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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iwbiek wrote:and britain

iwbiek wrote:
and britain didn't prevail in the american colonies, america didn't prevail in korea, vietnam, iraq, or afghanistan. it's just nearly impossible for any foreign army to conquer people on their native soil without strong collaberation from large sectors of those people. the romans and british did so well precisely because they used military action as an absolute last resort, and even then history shows us that their empires couldn't be sustained longer than a couple centuries. nowadays, with ease of communication, high literacy, and free exchange of ideas, empires are pretty much impossible.

Settle in their land.


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Israel has proved that

Israel has proved that doesn't work.

You'd need more settlers than locals, you'd need to kill off significant numbers of locals, and you'd need to segregate the locals; just to have the level of success seen in North America. Which is certainly not a complete success, even after 300 years.

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Vastet wrote:Israel has

Vastet wrote:
Israel has proved that doesn't work. You'd need more settlers than locals, you'd need to kill off significant numbers of locals, and you'd need to segregate the locals; just to have the level of success seen in North America. Which is certainly not a complete success, even after 300 years.

 You don't think North, Central and South America is a success? The locals are all but a shit wipe of ass about to be flushed down the toilet. They are barely hanging on to their traditions and their bloodline has been thinned that you rarely might see one of them with a 50% bloodline or even a 25%.

I would think that the Americas was a complete success even if it wasn't the Caucasian plan to do so.


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Maybe things are different

Maybe things are different in the US (I doubt it), but they aren't hanging by a thread here. There are tribes from coast to coast to coast, and they have had significant impact on Canada as a whole. They get a LOT of special treatment that costs money in one way or another, and it isn't likely to change soon.

That their languages have been nearly destroyed and their cultures marginalized and their bloodlines diluted doesn't change that they are a separate society in many ways, with their own culture and authority. They've blocked off tourism sites and entire cities in their attempts to regain land stolen from them. They recently took over a park in Vancouver and gave the city an eviction notice.

Both the US and Canada have spent tens of billions of dollars on native issues, and said issues are ongoing.

And this with a massive difference between military and technological capabilities of both sides, something that would not be the case if it were attempted in the middle east. The natives here didn't have a single firearm. The natives there have AK's and tanks and drones.

Not to mention that there aren't enough people to outnumber the locals even if we abandoned the entire continent.

As for central and South America, both are complete disasters. Mexico is in worse shape than many African and middle eastern countries, and South American nations have spent the last 20 years allying against North American interests. There is no success down there at all.

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