random star wars question

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random star wars question



chalk it up to too much time on the bus, but yesterday, for no apparent reason, the scene from revenge of the sith where anakin massacres the sand people village pops up in my head. then i recall anakin telling obi-wan about it, specifically emphasizing that he killed men, women, and children.
maybe there is no definitive answer to this question, but those hardcore fans around here who have read the books, etc., might know. why on earth wasn't anakin prosecuted for this? wasn't there any sort of justice system in the old republic? or did it not apply to sand people? i know the empire was racist but there were aliens in the galactic senate and everything. it seems weird to me they would draw the line at sand people, considering them animals or something. or is this just a testament to the corruption of the jedi, that even obi-wan was willing to keep silent about such an atrocity?

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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iwbiek wrote: chalk it up

iwbiek wrote:


chalk it up to too much time on the bus, but yesterday, for no apparent reason, the scene from revenge of the sith where anakin massacres the sand people village pops up in my head. then i recall anakin telling obi-wan about it, specifically emphasizing that he killed men, women, and children.
maybe there is no definitive answer to this question, but those hardcore fans around here who have read the books, etc., might know. why on earth wasn't anakin prosecuted for this? wasn't there any sort of justice system in the old republic? or did it not apply to sand people? i know the empire was racist but there were aliens in the galactic senate and everything. it seems weird to me they would draw the line at sand people, considering them animals or something. or is this just a testament to the corruption of the jedi, that even obi-wan was willing to keep silent about such an atrocity?

What was the message in the the final of the original 3 in "Return of the Jedi"? Reconciliation. You have the evil father in Darth Vader whom finally realizes his mistake. In the real world history you can make the same lesson about the aggressor in WW1 AND WW2.

The Germans in WW1 started that war. We kicked their ass and left them to rot. Hitler dangled a utopian carrot to the German people whom stupidly followed them and as a result 50 million civilians and soldiers worldwide including 6 million Jews died. But we did not make that same mistake again with Germany or Japan after WW2. If the west had helped out Germany after WW1 the greater likelihood would have been that Hitler never would have risen to power.

If you are claiming that corruption existed on the side of the good guys, you'd be right because no system is perfect and you can always find bad players. America certainly has had some evil moment's in it's history that no one should be proud of.

This stupid idea of altruism is at play and which is why you see flaws in Obi Wan's character.

Ultimately the script is simplistic thinking, good vs evil, which never takes into account that reality is never all good or all evil. Humans are flawed in reality no matter what our good intent may be in our ideas.

 

 

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I also don't think Vader's

I also don't think Vader's helmet was an accident. It certainly had a similar shape to German soldier's helmets.  And if I am not correct segments of the German military in WW1  were called "Storm Troopers" in German "thrust troops". .

The concept behind the original series, is simple freedom vs fascism.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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iwbiek wrote:why on earth

iwbiek wrote:
why on earth wasn't anakin prosecuted for this? wasn't there any sort of justice system in the old republic?

 

Because he was supposed to be the chosen one and no one fucks with the chosen one.  Not even Obi-Wan so, he gets the high ground over Anakin, lops off his legs and leaves him to burn to death instead.

"When the majority believes in what is false, the truth becomes a quest." - Me


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Your reading too much in to

Your reading too much in to the movie. This is George "I'm a fucking rich retard, but still a fucking retard" Lucas we are talking about.

Fucker couldn't write a good script if some one else did it for him, oh wait, that's exactly what happened. New Hope and Empire Stikes Back had some of the best script writers of the era helping him out. This is why New Hope and Empire Strikes Back are the best #1 and #2 movies and none of the others even can come close to them.

Take these excerpts from his early years. He fucking couldn't write and he admitted it. As he got more powerful in the film industry no one would challenge him so the movies fucking sucked. Look at the extras on the DVD's for the most recent three movies and you'll find people just saying "yes" to him because he was not to be challenged.

 

 

To start, we should look at THX 1138 and American Graffiti in order to understand the origins of Lucas the writer, and understand the entry point from which his later space adventure was approached from. Lucas, in his early career, detested both storytelling and scripting and never intended to participate in either, preferring to make abstract art films bearing influence from the formalistic experimentations of Arthur Lipsett.[12] Lucas remarked to Starlog magazine in 1981:

I don't think I am a good writer now. I think I'm a terrible writer...I went to USC as a photographer--I wanted to be a cameraman--but obviously at film school you have to do everything...Well, I did terrible in script writing...I didn't want to know about stories and plot and characters and all that stuff. And that's what I did. My first films were very abstract.[13]

He was able to escape the emotional involvement of a movie with narrative and identifiable characters when he was in film school, but once he began making professional films he could not postpone confronting this for long. "I'm not a good writer," he repeated to Filmmakers Newsletter in 1974, whilst writing Star Wars. "It's very, very hard for me. I don't feel I have a natural talent for it...When I sit down I just bleed on the page and it's awful."[14]

Preparing his first feature, THX 1138, producer and close friend Francis Coppola mandated Lucas write the script himself, arguing that he had to learn to write if he wanted to direct.[15] What resulted was not surprising. "[Francis] chained me to my desk and I wrote this screenplay," Lucas remembered in a Starlog interview. "I finished it, read it and said, 'This is awful.' I said, 'Francis, I'm not a writer. This is a terrible script.' He read it and said, 'You're right.' "[16] A professional writer (Oliver Hailey) was hired to do a second draft but Lucas, poor at interpersonal communication, couldn't articulate how he wanted the film to be and was even more distraught.[17] Finally, his film school friend Walter Murch stepped up to the typewriter to produce a useable script.[18]

http://secrethistoryofstarwars.com/natureofthebeast1.html

 

George Lucas is a fucking turd.


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basically i just want to

basically i just want to know if there's a canon response to this. i know there are inconsistencies and loose ends in the films, and that's exactly what the literature usually tries to clean up. i know lucas, or whoever was in charge of this scene, probably gave it no thought, but surely somebody adding to the star wars universe did.

i don't even like star wars that much. this is just curiosity.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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was not within the jurisdiction of the Galactic republic

iwbiek wrote:


chalk it up to too much time on the bus, but yesterday, for no apparent reason, the scene from revenge of the sith where anakin massacres the sand people village pops up in my head. then i recall anakin telling obi-wan about it, specifically emphasizing that he killed men, women, and children.
maybe there is no definitive answer to this question, but those hardcore fans around here who have read the books, etc., might know. why on earth wasn't anakin prosecuted for this? wasn't there any sort of justice system in the old republic? or did it not apply to sand people? i know the empire was racist but there were aliens in the galactic senate and everything. it seems weird to me they would draw the line at sand people, considering them animals or something. or is this just a testament to the corruption of the jedi, that even obi-wan was willing to keep silent about such an atrocity?

   First, I never read the novels so my knowledge on the topic is rather limited.

  I am little busy at the moment; therefore, anyone needing to correct me on this can feel free.

  Off the top of my head. The planet Tatooine on which his mother Shmi was stuck on, was not within the jurisdiction of the Galactic republic, in the fictional Star Wars universe, according to the films. I might be wrong. Continuing with the story Anakin Skywalker was to have had his own Padawan, her name was Ahsoka (NOT in the firms). She once made the in an ominous foreshadowing comment: "I fear what Anakin will do when there is no more war''

  Secondly, Blind spot could be prejudice, The Sand People were dramatically portrayed or defined as sub-humanoid & violent savages with not even a written language; from my impressions.

   That is only a partial answer,  sorry  I couldnt be of more help on this to you Sad

  --  --

  Dialog from the film, the original Star Wars film (1977) on the lightsaber's ''An elegant weapon, for a more civilized age."

 


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iwbiek wrote:basically i

iwbiek wrote:
basically i just want to know if there's a canon response to this. i know there are inconsistencies and loose ends in the films, and that's exactly what the literature usually tries to clean up. i know lucas, or whoever was in charge of this scene, probably gave it no thought, but surely somebody adding to the star wars universe did. i don't even like star wars that much. this is just curiosity.

Remember that the two movies Ep II and III are almost simultaneously being played out. They might have started an investigation but soon after the Republic is attacked, the Jedi are killed, etc etc. So even if they did have an investigation it was never completed.

Also, as Sand People go... well who is going to know or care? They weren't social people with other humans. They stayed away from towns and cities so it would take a while before their dead, half eaten bodies were found.

 


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digitalbeachbum wrote:Also,

digitalbeachbum wrote:
Also, as Sand People go... well who is going to know or care? They weren't social people with other humans. They stayed away from towns and cities so it would take a while before their dead, half eaten bodies were found.

 

well, that's fine, except anakin confessed, in detail, to a high-ranking jedi.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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digitalbeachbum wrote:Your

digitalbeachbum wrote:

Your reading too much in to the movie. This is George "I'm a fucking rich retard, but still a fucking retard" Lucas we are talking about.

Fucker couldn't write a good script if some one else did it for him, oh wait, that's exactly what happened. New Hope and Empire Stikes Back had some of the best script writers of the era helping him out. This is why New Hope and Empire Strikes Back are the best #1 and #2 movies and none of the others even can come close to them.

George Lucas is a fucking turd.

I SO agree with that. Never have been able to stand the man at all.

It is really odd that I, who consider myself a huge science fiction/fantasy person, have never been able to tolerate Star Wars or Star Trek.

I even think some of the ultra-modern series of today like Defiant and Continuum have that beat all to hell.

Of course, for their time period, they were way ahead, but they were still terrible from my own perspective.

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


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A'hem. The massacre of

A'hem.

The massacre of Tusken Raiders was in The Clone Wars, not Revenge of the Sith. And it was Padmé he told (in private), not Obi Wan. No Jedi was ever told about it. Yoda felt pain in Anakin at the time, and spoke with Mace about it, but neither of them actually knew what happened.

Also, the events in E2 were separated by 3 odd years from E3. They did not happen at close to the same time. At least 11 novels and a tv series separate the two films.

And fuck all you Star Wars haters. Star Wars is the greatest film series or film of all time. There were no flaws.

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Vastet wrote:A'hem. The

Vastet wrote:
A'hem.

The massacre of Tusken Raiders was in The Clone Wars, not Revenge of the Sith. And it was Padmé he told (in private), not Obi Wan. No Jedi was ever told about it. Yoda felt pain in Anakin at the time, and spoke with Mace about it, but neither of them actually knew what happened.

i wasn't sure which film it was in but i decided on episode iii. and considering i haven't seen either since they were released, that explains my faulty memory. that also solves the problem. thanks.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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My pleasure.

My pleasure. Smiling

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ok, well, just for shits and

ok, well, just for shits and giggles, though, how do you think the old republic viewed the sand people? were they considered citizens? is there anything about that in the books or comics? would anyone have bothered to investigate or charge anakin with anything?


i think a sort of dramatized social history of the sand people and how they've viewed and related to the galactic governments they've been under (old republic, empire, new republic) would be a hell of an idea for a star wars novel. i might even read it.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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The sand people were raiders

The sand people were raiders that were basically seen as second class citizens and other times less than THAT.  They were the equivalent of the Splatterpunks from Robocop 3 and were taken out whenever the opportunity arose. 

"When the majority believes in what is false, the truth becomes a quest." - Me


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iwbiek wrote:digitalbeachbum

iwbiek wrote:
digitalbeachbum wrote:
Also, as Sand People go... well who is going to know or care? They weren't social people with other humans. They stayed away from towns and cities so it would take a while before their dead, half eaten bodies were found.

 

 

well, that's fine, except anakin confessed, in detail, to a high-ranking jedi.

Hardly a high ranking jedi


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Vastet wrote:A'hem. The

Vastet wrote:
A'hem. The massacre of Tusken Raiders was in The Clone Wars, not Revenge of the Sith. And it was Padmé he told (in private), not Obi Wan. No Jedi was ever told about it. Yoda felt pain in Anakin at the time, and spoke with Mace about it, but neither of them actually knew what happened. Also, the events in E2 were separated by 3 odd years from E3. They did not happen at close to the same time. At least 11 novels and a tv series separate the two films. And fuck all you Star Wars haters. Star Wars is the greatest film series or film of all time. There were no flaws.

There are plenty of flaws through all six movies

In order Empire Strikes Back, New Hope... then the rest of them are all a distant third, fourth...etc. Ep I, II, III are all really fucking horrible. The casting was horrible, acting, directing, script, the only thing they had going for them is the special effects. You can also take out some of the specific scenes and call them amazing such as the fight/death scene at the end of Ep I where Qui-Gon Jinn dies. I also liked the scene where Obi Wan fights General Grievous.

Ep II and III are close together and three years is a short time to me when viewed through the grand sceheme of things.

 

 


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@ iwbiek Well it's complex.

@ iwbiek

Well it's complex. For one thing, the Republic would have deferred any case involving Jedi to the Jedi order, if the Republic had any authority. But Tatooine was firmly under the control of the Hutt crime syndicates; chiefly Jabba's family and Jabba himself. The Republic didn't strech that far into the outer rim. The Hutts and Tatooine locals would have given Anakin a medal and celebrated. The Tuskan's are barbaric primitives, far more vicious and cruel than Anakin was, even as Vader.

What the Jedi would have done is a good question. Ideally they'd have confined Anakin and tried to bring him back into the light. But because he wasn't just a Jedi, and because they didn't actually know what bringing balance to the Force meant, and because the dark side was on the rise blinding their ability to foresee events, it's difficult to say with any certainty. The council was divided on Anakin from the beginning, and always remained divided. That was as much why he fell to darkness as Palpatine in the end.

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"Hardly a high ranking

"Hardly a high ranking jedi"

On the contrary. Despite his inability to see it, Obi Wan was the greatest of the Jedi. Even Mace and Yoda looked to him. Had the Empire not destroyed the Jedi order, Obi Wan would have been on the council within a year of the events in E3.

"There are plenty of flaws through all six movies"

No there isn't. And your inability to provide anything more than your own opinion on theatrical concerns shows only that you don't like it. I personally thought the casting was brilliant. The acting, directing, and scripting could not have been better for any of the films.

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Well to be completely

Well to be completely honest, some of the direction and acting in E1, early in the movie, was off. But it was a hiccup in my view.

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