Why satanists don't debate or attack atheists?

ManuAndres44
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Why satanists don't debate or attack atheists?

 Why satanists don't debate with atheists as christians do? Do you know a forum in which there's a debate with them? I thought about this recently and I'd to know your opinions and comments. Because atheists vs. theists sometimes is kinda boring, won't be interesting to debate with satanists? 

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Vastet
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It's generally because there

It's generally because there wouldn't be a significant difference between viewpoints. The basic idea of satanism is to deny god, not to worship satan. There would likely be differences on the whys god should be rejected, but not on the rejection itself.

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harleysportster
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I think that largely depends upon

 I think it largely depends upon the type of satanic group that you would be referring to when it comes to "debate." 

 I think the largest satanic group (at least here in the states) are the ones that came about through Anton Lavey in the 1960s' 

Like Vastet has already mentioned, they spend a lot of their time denying god.

BUT, their doctrines also seem to center around carnal desires and more or less every member being a god onto himself. In other words, if you feel like doing something, be it legal or illegal, it is totally up to you. 

They have a similar doctrine when it comes to such things as vengence, carrying out any act against someone who they feel has wronged them, or any other thing. It largely seems to be a rather hedonistic and self serving type of group, who would really not be interested in arguing with anyone. 

Of course, there are some Satanic sects that get into all of that devil worship and the stuff that Hollywood liked to really cash in on when the huge Satanic scare (which largely turned out to be a hoax) was all over the news in the 1980s. 

Now, while my girlfriends religion is not at all satanic (Wiccan) and bears no similiarity to satanism, I can say that Wiccans have zero interest in winning over potential converts, recruiting new members or even of the mindset that their way is the only way. 

What surprised me about her and her fellow Wiccans, was their willingness to admit that their ideas, while largely based upon certain ancient myths and folklore legends, was pretty much an invention or personification of ideals. In other words, their gods and goddesses (at least in some groups, but there again, different Wiccan groups behave different ways and believe different ways) are largely more conceptual gods/goddesses than actual deities. 

While I do not follow or believe in any religion, I do have to say that a religion that is not trying to convert, not trying to condemn, not trying to claim an ultimate truth, wins a bit more leniency from me. 

 But I think that is largely why you do not see these types of groups in religious debates. They seem to be of the mindset of "leave us alone and let us do our thing and we'll return the favor", mentality. Can't say that I see too much wrong with that. 

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


iwbiek
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as has already been said,

as has already been said, actual "devil-worshippers" are very few and far between, usually lone nuts or small cell groups of nuts, or kids who have watched too many movies or read too much lovecraft.  satanists of that stripe mostly exist only in the minds of fanatics like jack chick.

most satanists are just hedonists or even secular humanists going for shock value.  they insist on the label "satanist" purely for the sake of bothering people who are easily bothered by stupid shit.  they don't actually believe either god or the devil exists.

tbh, i find satanism childish and silly, and i've heard most of lavey's satanic bible is plagiarized anyway.  openly touting himself as the founder of satanism was basically lavey's way of sneaking in the back door of high society so he could hobnob with dumb fucks like marilyn manson, who are even bigger exhibitionists than he was.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
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iwbiek wrote: tbh, i find

iwbiek wrote:

 

tbh, i find satanism childish and silly, and i've heard most of lavey's satanic bible is plagiarized anyway.  openly touting himself as the founder of satanism was basically lavey's way of sneaking in the back door of high society so he could hobnob with dumb fucks like marilyn manson, who are even bigger exhibitionists than he was.

I actually read a little bit of Lavey's book and found it to be rather dull. 

It could have been written by some 16-17 year old fucktard that was trying to really impress people with the fact that he has some "dark" faith or something. 

I agree that Manson is a dumb fuck and actually think that most of these people never grew out of the "I want to fight for my right to party" attitude. 

 

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


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ManuAndres44 wrote: Why

ManuAndres44 wrote:

 Why satanists don't debate with atheists as christians do? Do you know a forum in which there's a debate with them? I thought about this recently and I'd to know your opinions and comments. Because atheists vs. theists sometimes is kinda boring, won't be interesting to debate with satanists? 

 

Don't care why they don't. If you are basing your morals on the name of a fictional character that does not exist, you are an idiot. God doesn't exist nor does Satan. I have run into "Satanists" who try to treat it as metaphor like a "secular Jew", but it is still needless crap that distorts the reality of human behavior.

 

For the same reason I rip on Buddhism and Taoism and all clubs rooted in superstition. None of our human invented clubs were around 500,000 years ago, and life managed to move on. Our current popular and even minority clubs will morph, change or die, and get replaced with newer bullshit. But ultimately the planet will die and all life on in, the sun will die too and the universe will continue on with no record of Satanism, or Buddhism or Jesus or Allah or you or me.

"Satan" is just the opposite side of the same coin, and as literary characters both God and Satan are assholes and in that book they collaborate and play humans off of each other, it is the perfect script for the Mafia.

So if a "Satanist" wanted to debate me, I will simply treat it like all the other crap we get.

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harleysportster
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iwbiek wrote:as has already

iwbiek wrote:

as has already been said, actual "devil-worshippers" are very few and far between, usually lone nuts or small cell groups of nuts, or kids who have watched too many movies or read too much lovecraft.  satanists of that stripe mostly exist only in the minds of fanatics like jack chick.

 

Exactly

For instance, this is a good example of your so-called "devil worshippers". Which really amounts to bored retards. 

It was in my local news this morning : 

http://wreg.com/2013/10/01/vandals-leave-satanic-messages-in-church/

 

Here is an excerpt of these "satanist" clowns : 

" The numbers 666 were carved into the wood with an upside down cross.They also carved the words “smoke meth and hail Satan” on the altar and even burned page six hundred-sixty six inside an old Bible."

 

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


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harleysportster wrote:iwbiek

harleysportster wrote:

iwbiek wrote:

as has already been said, actual "devil-worshippers" are very few and far between, usually lone nuts or small cell groups of nuts, or kids who have watched too many movies or read too much lovecraft.  satanists of that stripe mostly exist only in the minds of fanatics like jack chick.

 

Exactly

For instance, this is a good example of your so-called "devil worshippers". Which really amounts to bored retards. 

It was in my local news this morning : 

http://wreg.com/2013/10/01/vandals-leave-satanic-messages-in-church/

 

Here is an excerpt of these "satanist" clowns : 

" The numbers 666 were carved into the wood with an upside down cross.They also carved the words “smoke meth and hail Satan” on the altar and even burned page six hundred-sixty six inside an old Bible."

 

They are too stupid to see that they are just as idiotic as any other superstition.

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That reminds me, how many of

That reminds me, how many of us here have had the stupid accusation that if we don't believe in god that means we worship Satan?

 

I have had that thrown at me a couple of times and it is soooooo stupid. If you see the bible as a comic book that would mean we view BOTH the super hero and the super villain as comic book characters.

 

I do however get a lip twitch when atheists say "I'd rather burn in hell than hang out with God". No, how about NEITHER?

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harleysportster
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Brian37 wrote:That reminds

Brian37 wrote:

That reminds me, how many of us here have had the stupid accusation that if we don't believe in god that means we worship Satan?

Haha, I have had that one thrown at me on multiple occasions.  Right up there with, "I WILL NOT ALLOW PEOPLE LIKE YOU TO TRASH TALK MY GOD." 

Of course, the one that seems to irk me a lot, are the pseudo intellectuals that toss out the following : 

"I don't have enough FAITH to be an Atheist"  (Roll eyes. They really think their slick with that one).

"So you actually believe that something came from nothing." (Yep, I still get that one a lot).

"You can't see or hear love. Yet you believe in it." 

"You have faith when you turn on the lights that the light will come on." (I never have got that one. I even had someone give me the ridiculous argument of : "You trust the toothpaste to come out of the tube don't you ? That takes faith." ) Seems to be like they are showing the how trivial that faith really is. 

I also get the "You believe in nothing." "You worship yourself." blah blah blah. 

Sometimes, its annoying, but sometimes it is quite amusing. Its like they are trying to make my comebacks easy. 

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


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harleysportster

harleysportster wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

That reminds me, how many of us here have had the stupid accusation that if we don't believe in god that means we worship Satan?

Haha, I have had that one thrown at me on multiple occasions.  Right up there with, "I WILL NOT ALLOW PEOPLE LIKE YOU TO TRASH TALK MY GOD." 

Of course, the one that seems to irk me a lot, are the pseudo intellectuals that toss out the following : 

"I don't have enough FAITH to be an Atheist"  (Roll eyes. They really think their slick with that one).

"So you actually believe that something came from nothing." (Yep, I still get that one a lot).

"You can't see or hear love. Yet you believe in it." 

"You have faith when you turn on the lights that the light will come on." (I never have got that one. I even had someone give me the ridiculous argument of : "You trust the toothpaste to come out of the tube don't you ? That takes faith." ) Seems to be like they are showing the how trivial that faith really is. 

I also get the "You believe in nothing." "You worship yourself." blah blah blah. 

Sometimes, its annoying, but sometimes it is quite amusing. Its like they are trying to make my comebacks easy. 

 

The worst part of this is that in the moment they think a quick "gotcha" quip like those above makes them deep thinkers. They have no fucking clue how much time atheists spend educating ourselves as to their books and arguments and our positions as well.

 

WARNING TO ALL THEISTS, we know a shitload more than you think. If you think your argument is new, think again.

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Vastet wrote:It's generally

Vastet wrote:
It's generally because there wouldn't be a significant difference between viewpoints. The basic idea of satanism is to deny god, not to worship satan. There would likely be differences on the whys god should be rejected, but not on the rejection itself.

what the Canadian said... (in two sentences or less, that is)

As others have pointed out (here and elsewhere on the webs) "Satan" and "Satanism" are merely token buzzwords used by Satanists to shock weak minds and are used as stand-in words for something otherwise fairly standard in today's world: death and vice -human viciousness as it is now. As Vastet hinted at, earlier, there really isn't anything for satanists and secular humanists (such as many of the folk of RRS happen to be) to debate, minor points of philosophy and 'esoteric traditions' (witchcraft and modest superstition) aside.

 

The link I gave above expands greatly on the criticisms seen here.

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


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I'm with the consensus

I'm with the consensus opinions.

I think it would be equivalent to a jedi vs. sith debate except mickey mouse would own the rights to the discussion.

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ManuAndres44 wrote:Why

ManuAndres44 wrote:
Why satanists don't debate with atheists as christians do?

 

My guess is that Satanists feel atheists are already well on their way to hell anyway so, beating a dead horse that the "morally justified" side already ground into dog food would be an exercise in futility.

"When the majority believes in what is false, the truth becomes a quest." - Me


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Thanks for your comments

Thanks for your comments guys! It seems that basically satanists aren't interested in the world around them. However I posted this question because as you know, there are a lot of things said about such "cult" like witchcraft, cats, halloween rituals and such stuff. Should we consider this only as fairy tales like the invisible pink unicorn? This is because recently a friend of mine who I can testify doesn't have any mental disorder told me that his roommate is a devil worshiper. He met with some of his friends and made some rituals. After a while of those my friend told me he started to hear laughs outside his bedroom. He felt something was standing up his window. Anyway, he also thought he was too tired after a long day at work or he was dreaming. But he's still hears the laughs from what he thinks it's a "demon". How can we explain this with the mere rational thinking if we consider he doesn't have mental disorders and isn't under any drugs effect?

P.S. If you prefer I can open a new thread on this.

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ManuAndres44 wrote:Thanks

ManuAndres44 wrote:

Thanks for your comments guys! It seems that basically satanists aren't interested in the world around them. However I posted this question because as you know, there are a lot of things said about such "cult" like witchcraft, cats, halloween rituals and such stuff. Should we consider this only as fairy tales like the invisible pink unicorn? This is because recently a friend of mine who I can testify doesn't have any mental disorder told me that his roommate is a devil worshiper. He met with some of his friends and made some rituals. After a while of those my friend told me he started to hear laughs outside his bedroom. He felt something was standing up his window. Anyway, he also thought he was too tired after a long day at work or he was dreaming. But he's still hears the laughs from what he thinks it's a "demon". How can we explain this with the mere rational thinking if we consider he doesn't have mental disorders and isn't under any drugs effect?

P.S. If you prefer I can open a new thread on this.

If he is hearing things, he is either under some sort of influence. Or side affect of meds, or has a mental illness. I even found out recently that a simple urinary tract infection can cause delusions if severe enough.

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Brian37 wrote:ManuAndres44

Brian37 wrote:

ManuAndres44 wrote:

Thanks for your comments guys! It seems that basically satanists aren't interested in the world around them. However I posted this question because as you know, there are a lot of things said about such "cult" like witchcraft, cats, halloween rituals and such stuff. Should we consider this only as fairy tales like the invisible pink unicorn? This is because recently a friend of mine who I can testify doesn't have any mental disorder told me that his roommate is a devil worshiper. He met with some of his friends and made some rituals. After a while of those my friend told me he started to hear laughs outside his bedroom. He felt something was standing up his window. Anyway, he also thought he was too tired after a long day at work or he was dreaming. But he's still hears the laughs from what he thinks it's a "demon". How can we explain this with the mere rational thinking if we consider he doesn't have mental disorders and isn't under any drugs effect?

P.S. If you prefer I can open a new thread on this.

If he is hearing things, he is either under some sort of influence. Or side affect of meds, or has a mental illness. I even found out recently that a simple urinary tract infection can cause delusions if severe enough.

delirium, you mean? I've never heard of physical illness causing delusions, but I suppose there's always a first time for everything.

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)