Seeing things in black and white

Zeeboe
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Seeing things in black and white

 

One of the reasons why I tend to ramble online so much is because first, I enjoy reading so I just naturally presume without realizing it that others may like the hobby as well, and second, I just have an all or nothing attitude. I.e. If I am going to discuss a topic, I prefer to just get it all out there. Rather I am educating someone or I am looking to get educated, I figure the process can begin more quickly if all the information is out there. Having typed that -


 

I am a 30-year old Caucasian man from the Southern region of the United States of America, and what I am about to type is all true and I am curious why I think the way I do in regards of the following subject, and I hoping people who have a background in psychology can satisfy my curiosity. 

Whenever I typically observe an overweight white woman, I am disgusted at the idea of dating her.

Whenever I typically observe an overweight African-American lady, I am aroused at the idea of dating her.

The idea of dating a European-American woman my age bores me, but the idea of dating a young white lady in her early-to-mid twenties interests me.

The idea of dating an Afro-American woman my age intrigues me, but the idea of dating a young African-American woman disinterests me and slightly disturbs me because of the age gap.  

The notion of getting with a skinny and young white woman, getting an apartment together, and going out and partying, and essentially living a chapter in my life that I never got to live sounds exciting to me.

The thought of living with an overweight African-American woman my age and getting married, buying a house together, partying sometimes, and going out and working, and having a career, and enjoying a mature adult "grown up" relationship together also sounds stimulating to me.

I am curious why my brain thinks the way. 


If I may post my answer (and perhaps by doing so it can help someone else answer) -

I think because I had a lot of bad experiences with Caucasian women my age and older (and a lot of them were on the heavy side. Some of those white women include family members and mean teachers) damaged me mentally, whereas my experiences with young and skinny white women have been positive, however I have not been around a lot of young skinny white women so there is this unknown feeling about them and like a lot of people, I am intrigued by what is rare, and the attraction to young white women is a common desire among many men.

I think my allure to Black-American women my age is just the heterosexual brain doing what it's suppose to do - I.e. I am suppose to be attracted to women my age, but because of the damage done by white-American women my age and older, I can rarely feel an appeal for them.

I think my overall fascination with African-American women is similar to my attraction to younger white women. I.e. Intimate encounters with them are scarce.

When a human being looks at another human being, color is among the first sensory perceptions that strike the beholder, and skin color was closely tied to political and social status when I was growing up.

I think because I was raised in a racist town, and was repeatedly reminded of skin color differences, and because sadly the U.S.A. in general has a long history of racism, I have a forbidden fruit syndrome when it concerns dating an African-American woman, as well as a fascination with black people. (Which I honestly think a lot of white people have. Rather they hate them, fear them, love them, or all of the above, white people (at least the ones I have seen) are interested in black people.

FYI - I have been around enough African-American's to personally know there is nothing to hate or fear about them like I was told to do growing up. They are as human as any white person, and yet so many whites, rather they admit it or not, have a fear/hatred of black people, mainly black men, and assume they are dangerous, overly sexual, and poor criminals and it's because the white-American media for going on almost one-hundred and fifty years portrays them as such. I am not suggesting there are not legit dangerous black people out there, but they are dangerous because of who they are, not because they are black, and there are plenty of dangerous white people out there too, but the media does not choose to focus on them as much as they always focus on black criminals.

But I digress. On that note - I do have some white guilt and I often wonder if one (certainly not the primary reason) of the reasons why I desire to date an Afro-American woman is to prove to myself and others that I am not racist.


As far as the weight part goes - Only thing I can think of is as a newborn baby, I had an overweight African-American nurse tend to me, so perhaps my viewing of a large African-American woman triggers something in the brain that brings feelings of comfort and security.

Perhaps this is something I should discuss with my shrink.


In closing, if  long and sad story of race relations in the U.S.A. teaches anything, it is that many Americans of different skin colors for generations now have a very difficult time seeing one another as equals, as fellow citizens, and as potential friends or spouses rather then as members of separate racial groups.
Some Americans, both white and black, have found it tremendously difficult to get beyond race and to see one another as fellow citizens without regard to color. I hope one day I and the rest of the country can. 

FYI - Whenever I have dated black women, I try not to even bring up the racial differences, but there have been several times my date however would bring it up. I think the country still has a lot more racial healing to do. That, or it's just human nature to bring up dissimilarities, but because of the bad history between white and black people, to bring up ethnic separateness can sometimes be a sensitive issue depending on how one references the distinctiveness.
 In closing, I know this was long, and even if I get no response, or the answers are full of sarcasm and ridicule, it was therapeutic for me to type this out, and I thank you for letting me use this format to vent.

 


danatemporary
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WARNing Inappropriate Humor --Be advised Warning (jungle fever)

re :: .. (WARNING) Be Advised;  Warning jungle fever

See:: Image

 

 p.s. -- This is why I am liking Athena  more and more and more :¬ Oh, Not in the "L" way jackazz (just so that you know).


Zeeboe
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 Ahahahahaha!!! That's

 Ahahahahaha!!! That's really funny. Thank you for posting that.


Watcher
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African-American culture is

African-American culture is fucked up.

Let me just throw that out there. 

There is nothing biologically inferior about black people compared to any other ethnic group.  But the culture is damaged.  When the North decided in their infinite wisdom to free the slaves with zero education or any kind of training they fucked up everything.

For one, they beggered the South for a century.  But we got over it.  The African American community hasn't got over it yet.  That's the biggest sin the North did.  Yeah, they killed a quarter of our military aged men.  As well as maiming another quarter of them.  Wiped out entire towns, and severely depleted the livestock.  But these things are all recovered from now.  The poor African Americans are still fucked up from what the North did.

A lot of young, african american men, when they were freed by the North, decided right then and there that they weren't going to work for anyone ever again.  They started "hustling" for their daily bread.  Which pretty much means being a scumbag to scam anyone and everyone of whatever they could be taken of.

Young African American kids looked up to them.  Thought they were cool.  So now we have this culture where going to prison for years is just a right of passage.  It's not looked down upon.  It's not a stigma like it would be in white culture.  It's just fucking normal.

How many African American kids are raised where their father is nowhere to be found?  83% or something?  It's horrific.

Bill Cosby caught a lot of flak when he berated the African American community a couple years ago.  The PC crowd went apeshit on him.

But he was fucking right.

 

 

"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci


iwbiek
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i have always been drawn to

i have always been drawn to black culture in america, particularly their music and language (pre-ebonics, that is).  i love the instrumentation and lyrical idioms of blues, soul, and early r&b.  on the other hand, i can't stand hip-hop or most r&b past the '70s (i don't care for luther vandross, for example, and i only like one teddy pendergrass song).

i also can't stand it when most white people do blues, r&b, and soul.  i hate eric clapton (both as a singer and a guitarist, he bores me to tears), michael bolton, michael mcdonald, and joe cocker.  pretty much the only white soul singers i like are leonard cohen and van morrison, because i feel like they're the only ones really using the soul idiom in their own vision, rather than just wishing they were bona fide soul singers.  i guess the beegees did well enough in that regard too.  the only white blues singer i like is delbert mcclinton.

these are purely aesthetic choices and i have no problem admitting them as such.  i neither idealize nor demonize black people.  for one thing, i rarely see them anymore, as you can count the black people in slovakia on both hands, and there probably isn't an african-american in the whole country.  for the four years i was in college, i attended a black church and was even an associate minister there.  it was no big deal to me or anyone else.  it was also an aesthetic choice: i just liked the black style of worship.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


Zeeboe
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In defense of the Union

  Watcher - For a long time the black race was enslaved so of course upon being set free, they were going to have problems. The government not compensating them, the Jim Crow laws that repressed them, and the Ku Klux Klan terrorizing them did not help matters. I mean, it was only in 1964 before African-Americans finally were given equal rights, and given just how old are planet is, that is not that long ago.

 Then the white-American media has been villainizing the Afro-American race since President Lincoln freed the slaves. It seems that racism (at least the prejudice as we know it today) against African-Americans in the United States of America began after the slave Nat Turner lead slave revolts. That is most likely when the "black brute" or "black buck" stereotype in the U.S.A. for African-American men began, and that hate and fear has been there since and still exists in our society today.
I think Turner really shocked White-America; He showed that not all Afro-Americans were scared, and because black-Americans were already seen as animal like by so many Europeon-Americans, I think racist white men saw the actions of Turner as being a sign that there is a violent beast within the black race if they are not properly controlled. I am sure that assumption was already there, but maybe Turner confirmed it with his actions, which lead to slave owners, overseer's, and white men in general to be even more tough on the black race. I.e. Installing black codes, whipping black people, hanging them, etc.
 Then after the American Civil War when slavery ended, the hate/fear of black people doubled. Before the War between the States and before Nat Turner's actions, the discrimination in the U.S.A. against Afro-Americans was different; Most European-Americans viewed black-Americans as innocent and lesser humans beings, perfectly content as slaves, and as long as they were under the supervision of caucasians, they were not seen as a threat. Even after Nat Turner, this viewpoint was still the most popular one. When the slaves were set free however, the hatred and fear of black people from White-America began in overwhelming numbers, and those feelings have been passed down from one generation to the next among too many white families all across the United States of America. What was it exactly that Whites feared about African-Americans that lead to black codes? The only answer I can think of as of right now is - Afro-Americans were clearly seen as being different, and Europeon-Americans were scared of the idea of seeing darker-skinned people who were once consider animals by most, as equals, and it's human nature for some to fear the unknown.  I have been around enough African-American's to personally know there is nothing to hate or fear about them. They are as human as any white person, and yet so many whites, rather they admit it or not, have a fear/hatred of black people, and assume they are dangerous criminals and it's because the media for hundred's of years portrays them as such. Even the whites who try to act like a stereotypical black person seem to think violence, music, and sex are all one needs to be black. I am also not suggesting there are not legit dangerous black people out there, but they are dangerous because of who they are, not because they are black, and there are plenty of dangerous white people out there too, but the media does not choose to focus on them as much as they always focus on black criminals. 

What is also a shame - So many young black men feel that if try do not act like thugs, they are not "real" black men and they think to not act like a brute would make them modern day house slaves. If only they were aware that they are just playing the part white racists desire them to pay and as long as they act like criminals, it's just going to hold their race back.

 Luckily, with each generation, racism seems to slowly fade away.

 


Watcher
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Zeeboe wrote:  Watcher -

Zeeboe wrote:

  Watcher - For a long time the black race was enslaved so of course upon being set free, they were going to have problems. The government not compensating them, the Jim Crow laws that repressed them, and the Ku Klux Klan terrorizing them did not help matters. I mean, it was only in 1964 before African-Americans finally were given equal rights, and given just how old are planet is, that is not that long ago.Americans viewed black-Americans as innocent and lesser humans beings, perfectly content as slaves, and as long as they were under the supervision of caucasians, they were not seen as a threat. Even after Nat Turner, this viewpoint was still the most popular one.

Are you saying that the "North" walking down here, burning all the infrastructure of the South, "freeing" the slaves with ZERO skills for the slaves to be free, with ZERO social safety nets, with ZERO anything but ROOT, HOG, OR DIE (name the person that quote comes from), while at the same time the same "egalitarian Yankee saviors" are busy enforcing to the hilt the slave's inability, hell making it a major illegality, for them to relocate to the northern states is some wonderous thing?  God bless the Yankees.   Yessir, massa, I praise the lawrd for they Yankees evwry day.

Do you care to mention that even though the Yankees totally beat our ass, had us completely defeated, they very rarely raped any of our women?

 

...well white women.  Union soldiers seemed to delight in raping the slave women they were supposed to be freeing.   I can pull up, heck any of us can, a plethora  of independent sources of how much the yanks were on one hand, oh you're free n---, oh I'm busy raping your black a--.

 

What the heck was that about?  Reading through the old records I'm just shocked by it and wondering what the psychology behind that is.  I don't have hardly any Southern records.  These are Union or Federal records.   It's shocking.

Do you want to spend half a week with me with the Federal Writers Project from the 1930's talking to former slaves and their personal reminiscences?  It's all online.

But Southerners are evil, and Yankees are these great people.  Uhm, the Yankees also happened to win the war.  So winners write the... well some kinds of books

 

Really, you want to play with history Zeeboe?  I've seen your posts on Civil War forums.  You want to get really factually based, historical with each other about the American Civil War?

Let's do this.

"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci


Zeeboe
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 Wow.

Wow, is someone angry? Why are you mad? Are you a racist? 

If you've seen my posts, then you know I am quite experienced debating in the American Civil War, and I've read all the Lost Cause, Paradise Lost, Neo-Rebel stuff before and it can all be very easily debunked.

For starters, the Union was going to help the former slaves, however, Andrew Johnson, President Lincoln's successor and a sympathizer with the South, overturned all of President Lincoln's plans in the fall of 1865, and returned the land along the South Carolina, Georgia and Florida coasts to the planters who had originally owned it -- to the very people who had declared war on the United States of America.

http://www.theroot.com/views/truth-behind-40-acres-and-mule?page=0,0&tid=sm_tw_button_chunky

 War crimes are sadly apart of human nature. The war crimes of some 1860's U.S. soldiers do not speak for the entire U.S. government or U.S. Military of that period. The rebels also committed war crimes too. (Although some of the things they did would sadly not be consider war crimes to them. For example, when the South invaded the North in the summer of 1863, they kidnapped free black people and took them into slavery.)
The reason why you do not have any Southern records is because the full transcripts of Confederate courts-martial were sent to Richmond, Virginia for filing and at the fall of the Confederacy's capital in April of 1865, any pretense of record preservation went out the window.....literally.
Official documents and pamphlets were scattered. Confederate bonds, notes, bank checks, and bills flecked and whitened the corners in every street. All so worthless that the men would not pick them up. Shortly there after, the Confederates set fire to the city and it would seem that the entire texts of Confederate courts-martial are gone forever. There is some proof of Confederate-related war crimes however.
Some clarification of the issue is seen in a letter from the Confederacy's Secretary of the State, Judah P. Benjamin to the governor of Virginia, Mr John Letcher:

"There are in the (Confederate) Army, unfortunately, some desperate characters--men gathered from the outskirts and purlieus of large cities--who take advantage of the absence of civil authorities to commit crimes, even murder, rape, and highway robbery, on the peaceful citizens in the neighborhood of the armies. For these offenses, the punishment should be inflicted by civil authorities...The crimes committed by these men are not military offenses. If a soldier, rambling through the country murders a farmer or violates the honor of his wife or daughter (rape), court-martials cannot properly take cognizance of the offense..."

In the disruption of war, the Virginia state and county governments were hardly able to catch, confine, and punish these miscreant Confederate soldiers. Mr. Benjamin begged the Virginia state legislature for "..."protection to Virginians". This would seem to be a major abdication of responsibility by the Confederate war department. Mr. Benjamin's letter may be the key to the paucity of recorded Confederate rapes: the Confederate military would not prosecute and the Confederate military could not prosecute. 

Certainly the United States military punished U.S. soldiers for war crimes against civilians, hanging and shooting dozens of Federal troops. An example of the official U.S. position is seen in General Orders No. 12, from the Department of the Rappahannock on May 16th, 1862 issued by Major General Irwin McDowell.

"The punishment for rape will be death; and any violence offered a female, white or colored, with the evident intent or purpose to commit a rape, will be consider one, and punished accordingly."

The Division commanders were empowered to order immediate execution by hanging or by shooting "if hanging should not be convenient."

The problem with the United States Military however in regards of war crimes is that in many cases the men in charge would look the other way when war crimes by white Union men were committed. Or there were corrupt judges, and in some cases, Caucasian Unionists who were found guilty were given very light punishments.

One of the many disturbing things that often would happen is while a European-American Federal troop could for example rape a white or black woman and essentially get away with it in many cases, if an African-American in blue sexually assaulted a white woman, he was dead in every case. He'd either get shot on the spot, or he'd be brought up on charges, and hang. But it was okay for black men to rape black women. His superiors would often look the other way then, but if he touched a white woman, Southern woman or not, he was a dead man. I've yet to read a case of where an Afro-American U.S. soldier ever got a light punishment for raping a white woman during the War between the States.

The scene in the 1989 American film "Glory" where the character Col. James M. Montgomery (played by Cliff De Young) laughs as he watches one of his black soldiers hurting a black woman, but then his expression quickly changes and gets real serious as he sees the same man hurting a white woman and shoots him, but not before warning him, "Hey fella! Take your hands off the white lady!" depicts this disturbing case of racism and injustice very well.

All rapists deserve death in my view, including the white ones, and there were indeed cases of justice and evidence of United States troops of all colors being punished properly for their crimes because the evidence is found in the records.
The Union (*officially*) hanged rapists; The Confederacy ignored them. Why the Confederates chose to give free rein to the brutal crime of rape is a deeply disturbing mystery. If it was a manifestation of states rights, the consequence was to protect criminals who wore gray.

I am not suggesting that it excuses what some of the U.S. troops did. I am just trying to make a point that this is a sad case of human nature, and where a man lives or a man's accent or the color of his uniform or clothing or the color skin he wears has nothing to do with what choices he makes.

Source: http://www.amazon.com/Sexual-Misbehavior-Civil-War-Compendium/dp/142571949X


I have read the words of some former slaves from the 1930's - Those poor people were brain washed. If you read other sources, you'll find plenty of cases where slaves were abused. Hell, the very fact that people were slaves is abuse.
Here's a non-fictional parable for you - Did you know that the Nazi's once had a Jewish man and a Jewish cast and crew film an entire movie about a concentration camp showing it as a wonderful place to live and called it "The Fuhrer Gives The Jewish People A Home"? Then the Nazi's shot the director and most of the crew. And earlier that year, they had cleaned up the same concentration camp and showed it to members of the Danish and International Red Cross Societies to show how well Jewish prisoners were treated. To prepare for their visit, they deported most of the prisoners to Auschwitz to be gassed. It was called "Theresienstadt".
The reason why I bring that up is to make a point that you cannot always believe everything you read. A bunch of scared and brain-washed former slaves for example do not speak for their whole race.


If the winners write the history dude, then why are there do many Neo-Rebels out there? If only the winners did write history. It would be great to see racism that easily destroyed.

The South had to be stripped of slavery at the point of the bayonet, and then after nearly a century of apartheid, Jim Crow laws were stomped out by Federal action and Federal troops.

I feel no sympathy for the C.S.A. Slavery ending was a lot more important then white people getting more power then they already had. What the South went through was the ideal punishment that they deserved for trying to make slavery legal forever.

You have a lot of nerve acting pissed off and bitter about this subject. What your ancestors went through was mirror compared to what black people went through. If anyone has a right to be pissed off and bitter, it's black people. They were and are the real victims. Not a bunch of Lost-Cause Neo-Rebels.

Y'all are so use to kicking everyone else's ass that when you got your asses kicked, it shocked your kind so much that you just will not let it go, and have to act like a whiny victim forever. White people with entitlement attitudes are so funny.

What was a few years of hell for the South was a daily thing for hundred's of years for black people.

Yes, let's do this. Bring it, reb.


danatemporary
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Grow the fuck up for once Jackazz !!

 Nu. 7

Zeeboe wrote:
Are you a racist? 

If you've seen my posts, then you know I am quite experienced debating in the American Civil War, and I've read all the Lost Cause, Paradise Lost, Neo-Rebel stuff before and it can all be very easily debunked .. it shocked your kind so much that you just will not let it go, and have to act like a whiny victim forever. White people with entitlement attitudes are so funny.

What was a few years of hell for the South was a daily thing for hundred's of years for black people.

Yes, let's do this. Bring it, reb.

   Be careful with your accusations (Capisce)!! Nothing Watcher has said indicates if he is or isn't a 'racist', the obvious fall-out with something as traumatic as the upheaval of the American Civil War, will be with you for a very long time. On this board, of all places, the PC movement has little traction, and I aint talking computers. Get a clue  and grow the fuck up for once Jackazz !!  I never liked your manner, at times!!All you can assume is Watcher hails from one of the Southern States, the rest is unsubstantiated.

 Plus, There is a humorous Family Guy episode this reminds me of Oh Lawdy Lawdy, I never roam again Brain the pooch Family Guy. People didnt know quite how to take it, so there was so much confusion with use of the phrase, they ended up writing in this racist element into the show. When his use of the phrase was not clearly understood.

 


Zeeboe
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Um, who are you? I don't

Um, who are you? I don't even know you so why are you talking to me like we're old buddies? It's funny how you tell me to grow up, and yet you're the one cussing.

I also never called Watcher a racist. I asked him if he was one because Watcher's first post screams racism and I have spoken to enough white and black racists to know a bigot when I see one. It's interesting how you see a question as an accusation.

Watcher wasn't alive during the War between the States so he has no reason to be traumatized by anything, but again, it goes to show just how egoistical some members of the American white race are - They lose one war, and then they spend the next one-hundred and fifty years whining about it, trying to rewrite history, and insisting that they were and are victims.

It must be awful to be a white person living in the United States of America today, where you can go anywhere you please, marry anyone you like, talk to, talk with or talk about anyone you desire. That's completely comparable to being beaten or chained for raising your voice in the wrong tone or looking at a person of another race in just the wrong way or forgetting to carry your papers while walking from one property owner to the next. Lol.


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I am the one with the long memory

  I am the one with the long memory .. that is all you need to know !!


Zeeboe
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danatemporary wrote:  I am

danatemporary wrote:

  I am the one with the long memory .. that is all you need to know !!

 

Okay. I can agree with that. It also just goes to show how little I think of you and whatever interaction we had.


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Zeeboe wrote:Wow, is someone

Zeeboe wrote:

Wow, is someone angry? Why are you mad? Are you a racist? 

Oh no!  You called me a racist!  I better shut up.

Fuck you, no I'm not a racist.  But you're still an idiot.

I'm not whining.  I'm just pointing out the bullshit tripe that has made up the current day fiction we call the history of the Civil War.

You're pathetic.  A freaking Austinite that betrays the memory of his own people.  Not just against the South with the Civil war, but against the Colonies during the Revolutionary war.

Yeah, I read that post too.

No one likes a traitor.  Not the ones who were betrayed by them nor those who you betrayed them for.   You're considered scum on all sides.

Grow some balls.

You're probably an immigrant.  Your mommy and daddy probably moved down south in the 60's or 70's from Maine or somewhere.  Go home.  Take GW with you.

"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci


Zeeboe
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  Nope. Guess again angry

 Nope. Guess again angry guy. My family has been in Texas for hundred's of years.


By the way - Did you know that over three-hundred thousand white men from the South served for the Union Army during the American Civil War? The South was not nearly as united as Hollywood makes them out to be. That's a Neo-Rebel myth. Just to prove to you I'm not lying, here are some books with links about Southern Unionists - 


1. Bitterly Divided: The South's Inner Civil War - 


http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1595584757/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1368790632&sr=8-1&pi=SL75

2. The South Vs. The South: How Anti-Confederate-Southerners Shaped the Course of the Civil War

http://www.amazon.com/The-South-Vs-Anti-Confederate-Southerners/dp/0195156293/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=1MFW3AW0RN0RF&coliid=

3. Secret Yankees: The Union Circle in Confederate-Atlanta

http://www.amazon.com/Secret-Yankees-Confederate-Atlanta-Society/dp/0801868157/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=1MFW3AW0RN0RF&coliid=I3G1QHE6Q8SWO6

4. Lincoln's Loyalists: Union Soldiers From the Confederacy

http://www.amazon.com/Lincolns-Loyalists-Union-Soldiers-Confederacy/dp/0195084659/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=1MFW3AW0RN0RF&coliid=I18GCSOD7FVIIG

5. Reluctant Confederates: Upper South Unionists in the Secession Crisis 

http://www.amazon.com/Reluctant-Confederates-Unionists-Secession-Morrison/dp/0807844306/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pd_S_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=1MFW3AW0RN0RF&coliid=I2F5F4Y0SAT1T5

6. Enemies of the Country: New Perspectives on Unionists in the Civil War South

http://www.amazon.com/Enemies-Country-Perspectives-Unionists-Civil/dp/0820326607/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=1MFW3AW0RN0RF&coliid=

7. Guerrillas, Unionists, & Violence on the Confederate Homefront 

http://www.amazon.com/GUERRILLAS-UNIONISTS-VIOLENCE-CONFEDERATE-HOMEFRONT/dp/1557285500/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=1MFW3AW0RN0RF&coliid=I3OP0ZF7W71E80

8. The State of Jones: The Small Southern County that Seceded from the Confederacy  

http://www.amazon.com/The-State-Jones-Southern-Confederacy/dp/0767929462/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=1MFW3AW0RN0RF&coliid=I3L3JD9UZL9PRM
 


And there are a lot more books about Southern Unionists out there.


Here is a list of famous Southern Unionists -  


George Thomas


John Buford [Southern-accent-sounding actor Sam Elliott played the part of Buford in the 1993 film "Gettysburg"]

John Minor Botts

Thomas E. Bramlette


Robert Jefferson Breckinridge

William Gannaway Brownlow

Archibald W. Campbell

William Cannon

William Crutchfield

Thomas Jefferson Durant

Stephen Foster

Andrew Jackson Hamilton

John Hancock (Mr. Hamilton's law partner)

Thomas H. DuVal

David Hart

Captain Dennis E. Haynes

Joshua Hill

William Woods Holden

Joseph Holt

Sam Houston (A fellow Texan)

Fielding Hurst

Andrew Johnson

Francis Lieber

Montgomery C. Meigs

Isaac Murphy

Thomas Amos Rogers Nelson

James L. Petigru

Joseph G. Sanders

Winfield Scott

James Speed

Joshua Fry Speed

Francis Harrison Pierpont

Elizabeth Van Lew

James Madison Wells


Traitors? I think not. It was the Confederates who were traitors. These men were Americans first, Southerners second.

Want more proof of Southern Unionists? Why do you think the state of West Virginia exists?

Ever hear the Union song "Marching Through Georgia"? Here are some lyrics that describe Southern Unionists -
"Yes and there were Union men who wept with joyful tears, When they saw the honored flag they had not seen for years; Hardly could they be restrained from breaking forth in cheers, While we were marching through Georgia."
             As a Southerner, my support for the Union during the American Civil War may be consider odd to some in the year 2013, but during the actual American Civil War, it would not be consider strange at all.



 In regards of the American Revolution - My family is originally from England. I still have cousins there. It's not being a traitor. It's being loyal to what you originally were and are. In my case, my family was English before they were Americans. There were thousands of Americans loyal to King George III during the American Revolution too. 

That post you saw that I did was just me explaining the British point of view since it is unknown among so many Americans. I am glad we have our own country, but do think it is a shame we had to get it in such a violent way. Between the fact that so many people were fighting for control over this land, and the fact that we had to again resort to extreme violence to get our own country set the theme that you have to fight to get what you need in this country, which explains why we are one of the most violent nations on earth.

 

 


iwbiek
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Watcher is starting to

Watcher is starting to remind me of another incoherent, rabid poster from another time and place.  if he starts calling people fat, singing the praises of charles martel, and quoting bugs bunny, i'll know for sure.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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I don't think anyone on the

I don't think anyone on the planet is sufficiently qualified to accurately deduce the reasons for why you are the way you are. The most qualified person is yourself, as only you can look at your life history as a big picture, properly deducing the effects events had on you.
A good psychiatrist can help you figure it out, but the moment they start making concrete conclusions they lose all credibility. Psychology and psychiatry are still infant sciences. They can help people, and often do, but the fact that there are still in-patient psychiatry hospitals and wings of hospitals is demonstrative of just how far we've yet to go.

Watcher is indeed a self admitted racist. He is the white to A_Nony_Mouse's black, or vice versa. A_Nony hates the jews and Watcher hates the arabs. I'd love to lock them both in a room along with the likes of Bill O'Reilly and the Phelps family and throw away the key.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.