Can you say awkward?

Beyond Saving
atheist
Beyond Saving's picture
Posts: 5479
Joined: 2007-10-12
User is offlineOffline
Can you say awkward?

 I can't really talk about this to anyone I know so I will share it with you all. I have a friend who after 17 years of marriage got a divorce, and it has been really hard on him. He has started using hard drugs, drinking heavily and has lost many of his old friends. I am the only person in his life that he feels he can be honest with and doesn't judge him. So on Friday, he sends me a text telling me that the current girl he is seeing and her sister are hanging out at his place and invites me over for some drinks. Since my friend has one of the best stocked bars in Ohio, I'm not going to pass up on the offer and I made my way to his place. 

When I get there, I head down stairs and meet his girlfriend and her sister... only to find out that I already knew them quite well. They were cousins of my ex-wife and I have known them since they were 14 and 12; they were sitting in his basement nonchalantly smoking crack. Wow. I didn't know what to do, so I pretended I was meeting them for the first time and they went along with it. It was extremely awkward for me, and apparently it showed. My friend made a couple of comments that he thought my discomfort was due to the drug use because I don't smoke anything stronger than pot and don't snort or inject anything. 

Even now, I really don't know what to make of it. Given two random twenty somethings that I don't know I drink a couple shots, smoke a bowl, probably fuck one of them and call it a good night without thinking twice about it. Two girls I have known since they were kids and I just wanted to shake them and ask what the hell they thought they were doing there. Is it hypocritical of me to care when I happen to know the girls and not give a shit when they are random strangers? Probably. 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


Teralek
Theist
Teralek's picture
Posts: 619
Joined: 2010-07-15
User is offlineOffline
So what is making you

So what is making you uncomfortable is the fact that 2 girls you know were smoking crack and getting drunk, and before you didn't pictured them in that?

yes I think it would have better to be true and not fake anyhow...

Side note:

$ 128,902,027,314    World spending on illegal drugs this year (http://www.worldometers.info/

______________________________________________________________
"I once prayed to god for a bike, but quickly found out he didnt work that way...so I stole a bike and prayed for his forgiveness"

"All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force... We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent Mind. This Mind is the matrix of all matter." (Max Planck)

"the existence of mind in some organism on some planet in the universe is surely a fact of fundamental significance. Through conscious beings the universe has generated self-awareness. This can be no trivial detail, no minor byproduct of mindless, purposeless forces. We are truly meant to be here." Paul Davies


Brian37
atheistSuperfan
Brian37's picture
Posts: 15834
Joined: 2006-02-14
User is offlineOffline
Beyond Saving wrote: I

Beyond Saving wrote:

 I can't really talk about this to anyone I know so I will share it with you all. I have a friend who after 17 years of marriage got a divorce, and it has been really hard on him. He has started using hard drugs, drinking heavily and has lost many of his old friends. I am the only person in his life that he feels he can be honest with and doesn't judge him. So on Friday, he sends me a text telling me that the current girl he is seeing and her sister are hanging out at his place and invites me over for some drinks. Since my friend has one of the best stocked bars in Ohio, I'm not going to pass up on the offer and I made my way to his place. 

When I get there, I head down stairs and meet his girlfriend and her sister... only to find out that I already knew them quite well. They were cousins of my ex-wife and I have known them since they were 14 and 12; they were sitting in his basement nonchalantly smoking crack. Wow. I didn't know what to do, so I pretended I was meeting them for the first time and they went along with it. It was extremely awkward for me, and apparently it showed. My friend made a couple of comments that he thought my discomfort was due to the drug use because I don't smoke anything stronger than pot and don't snort or inject anything. 

Even now, I really don't know what to make of it. Given two random twenty somethings that I don't know I drink a couple shots, smoke a bowl, probably fuck one of them and call it a good night without thinking twice about it. Two girls I have known since they were kids and I just wanted to shake them and ask what the hell they thought they were doing there. Is it hypocritical of me to care when I happen to know the girls and not give a shit when they are random strangers? Probably. 

Beyond, there is lots I could really bitch slap you for. But when I read the word "crack", I didn't need to read any more. I know we have our differences. But seriously, you don't need to try to play hero or even get trapped by guilt trip from them. It is one thing to say "don't judge". But you didn't go there as some sort of addiction advocate who is medically or psychologically trained. You got blindsided and they wanted to draw you into their drama.

 

I would simply stay away from it. You own a business. As much as you piss me off with your economics. I would hate to see you lose what you have because someone you know fell through the cracks. If you want to help your friend, you don't have to party with them to prove loyalty. Just simply send them to help that is organized and professionally trained. I really would not advise you to prove yourself to them. Hard core does need to mean hard core stupidity.

 

I once as a teen trained as a life guard. Only did it for a summer. One of the first things they taught us was that if the victim is pulling you down with them, break away. Your friendship is not worth you sinking with them. I am not saying you would get sucked in  yourself. I am saying you may not be professionally or mentally capable of helping your friend.

Beyond. I need my nemesis. I'd rather you try to "rescue" me from my evil commie ways, than get yourself involved with something you might not be able to handle. "Crack" is something medical and mental health care professionals deal with. Lead your friend to that if you can. But don't try to take on a Great White problem when you are not trained to handle it.

 

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


iwbiek
atheistSuperfan
iwbiek's picture
Posts: 4221
Joined: 2008-03-23
User is offlineOffline
wow, living in slovakia i

wow, living in slovakia i often forget such things exist.  the hardest shit you're likely to find here is x.

btw, brian, i'd love to see you write an agreeable post to beyond that doesn't start with something to the effect of "usually i hate your guts, but..."

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


iwbiek
atheistSuperfan
iwbiek's picture
Posts: 4221
Joined: 2008-03-23
User is offlineOffline
fwiw, beyond, i don't think

fwiw, beyond, i don't think you're hypocritical.  we're hardwired to care about our loved ones and pretty much nobody else.  people who empathize with everyone are anomalies.

that goes double for a guy like me, though that seems to surprise some people.  i'm not a marxist for emotional, sentimental, or moralistic reasons.  if it means the difference between your life and mine, or the lives of my family, i'll cut your throat without batting an eye.  as the old saying goes, i'd rather go to your funeral any day than to have you come to mine.

90% of the time, those girls you don't know have loved ones of their own who should be looking after them.  if they don't have sense enough, or are just plain unable, to keep them away from guys like you, you can't be expected to just spontaneously grow tender feelings for them.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


Brian37
atheistSuperfan
Brian37's picture
Posts: 15834
Joined: 2006-02-14
User is offlineOffline
iwbiek wrote:wow, living in

iwbiek wrote:

wow, living in slovakia i often forget such things exist.  the hardest shit you're likely to find here is x.

btw, brian, i'd love to see you write an agreeable post to beyond that doesn't start with something to the effect of "usually i hate your guts, but..."

 

Where did I say I hate his guts? I hate his economic views. Just like I hate religious and god claims, but most of my family and my co workers have some sort of god belief.

And I think it is great that he cares about his friends, but cops and doctors and mental health experts will tell Beyond, you can only help him so much. And Beyond has a lot to lose if he gets too caught up into that. Hanging out with him when he is around stuff like that is simply asking for trouble.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


iwbiek
atheistSuperfan
iwbiek's picture
Posts: 4221
Joined: 2008-03-23
User is offlineOffline
Brian37 wrote:  Where did

Brian37 wrote:

 

 

Where did I say I hate his guts? I hate his economic views. Just like I hate religious and god claims, but most of my family and my co workers have some sort of god belief.

 

i understand that.  my point was, can't you just agree with him without reminding him how much you generally disagree with him?

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


Beyond Saving
atheist
Beyond Saving's picture
Posts: 5479
Joined: 2007-10-12
User is offlineOffline
Brian37 wrote:Beyond, there

Brian37 wrote:

Beyond, there is lots I could really bitch slap you for. But when I read the word "crack", I didn't need to read any more. I know we have our differences. But seriously, you don't need to try to play hero or even get trapped by guilt trip from them. It is one thing to say "don't judge". But you didn't go there as some sort of addiction advocate who is medically or psychologically trained. You got blindsided and they wanted to draw you into their drama.

 

I would simply stay away from it. You own a business. As much as you piss me off with your economics. I would hate to see you lose what you have because someone you know fell through the cracks. If you want to help your friend, you don't have to party with them to prove loyalty. Just simply send them to help that is organized and professionally trained. I really would not advise you to prove yourself to them. Hard core does need to mean hard core stupidity.

 

I once as a teen trained as a life guard. Only did it for a summer. One of the first things they taught us was that if the victim is pulling you down with them, break away. Your friendship is not worth you sinking with them. I am not saying you would get sucked in  yourself. I am saying you may not be professionally or mentally capable of helping your friend.

Beyond. I need my nemesis. I'd rather you try to "rescue" me from my evil commie ways, than get yourself involved with something you might not be able to handle. "Crack" is something medical and mental health care professionals deal with. Lead your friend to that if you can. But don't try to take on a Great White problem when you are not trained to handle it.

I have no intention of trying to rescue anyone. They are all adults that know what they are doing. Especially my friend knows he is being stupid and has the means to get professional help when and if he decides he wants it. I was just completely flustered seeing the cousins there. Part of me wonders if I should tell me ex, but that could easily create more problems than it would solve. They are adults, and hopefully they will realize they are making bad decisions and seek to change it themselves before it is too late. Of course if they wanted to quit I would be happy to do what I could to help. I never thought aggressively trying to make anyone quit is a good way to approach drugs.

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


Brian37
atheistSuperfan
Brian37's picture
Posts: 15834
Joined: 2006-02-14
User is offlineOffline
Beyond Saving wrote:Brian37

Beyond Saving wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

Beyond, there is lots I could really bitch slap you for. But when I read the word "crack", I didn't need to read any more. I know we have our differences. But seriously, you don't need to try to play hero or even get trapped by guilt trip from them. It is one thing to say "don't judge". But you didn't go there as some sort of addiction advocate who is medically or psychologically trained. You got blindsided and they wanted to draw you into their drama.

 

I would simply stay away from it. You own a business. As much as you piss me off with your economics. I would hate to see you lose what you have because someone you know fell through the cracks. If you want to help your friend, you don't have to party with them to prove loyalty. Just simply send them to help that is organized and professionally trained. I really would not advise you to prove yourself to them. Hard core does need to mean hard core stupidity.

 

I once as a teen trained as a life guard. Only did it for a summer. One of the first things they taught us was that if the victim is pulling you down with them, break away. Your friendship is not worth you sinking with them. I am not saying you would get sucked in  yourself. I am saying you may not be professionally or mentally capable of helping your friend.

Beyond. I need my nemesis. I'd rather you try to "rescue" me from my evil commie ways, than get yourself involved with something you might not be able to handle. "Crack" is something medical and mental health care professionals deal with. Lead your friend to that if you can. But don't try to take on a Great White problem when you are not trained to handle it.

I have no intention of trying to rescue anyone. They are all adults that know what they are doing. Especially my friend knows he is being stupid and has the means to get professional help when and if he decides he wants it. I was just completely flustered seeing the cousins there. Part of me wonders if I should tell me ex, but that could easily create more problems than it would solve. They are adults, and hopefully they will realize they are making bad decisions and seek to change it themselves before it is too late. Of course if they wanted to quit I would be happy to do what I could to help. I never thought aggressively trying to make anyone quit is a good way to approach drugs.

 

My point to you is if you insist on hanging out with him WHILE he has that stuff on him, you are playing with fire. I have dealt with people who have broken my trust on issues of drinking and driving and pot. Like you said, they are adults. But, I have had far too many people violate the simple request that they not do it around me or put me at risk.

People who are intoxicated on ANYTHING can and do do stupid shit. He can quite easily get you in trouble even if you have no intent on holding, smoking, or selling crack. You have too much to lose yourself to be around that.

Pot where I live is illegal and any type of intoxicated driving is illegal. I had a friend whom I worked with who smoked pot and the only thing I asked him not to do is have it in a vehicle I was in. And not to do it out in the open where someone could see. Once we went to a bar and he pulled a joint out and smoked it while he was driving. Another time he not only got drunk in my mom's old retirement neighborhood, again, he pulled a joint out at the clubhouse and smoked it.

And even with people in general, I don't get rides to parties from people who drink, I take a cab, or I simply go and don't drink myself. I've had too many times where the idiot driving insisted they were fine and were actually all over the road.

Just with pot and bars and parties, I've been through the "I'm fine" and " you worry too much" excuse crap, that if you take that risk one to many times, it can and will catch up to you in some way.

And I also agree, being aggressive about addiction does not work. I had a high school friend who didn't stop with "don't smoke ciggarettes around me", he had a uncle or something die from smoking. And he constantly hounded me about it, so yea, that does not work.

I am just saying even with things like booze which is legal, if you know someone gets stupid on it especially when it comes to driving, simply stay away from them and avoid that situation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


digitalbeachbum
atheistRational VIP!
digitalbeachbum's picture
Posts: 4901
Joined: 2007-10-15
User is offlineOffline
Walk away, but if you feel

Walk away, but if you feel you need to, explain to your friend your feelings then walk away and don't look back.

I agree with Brian. When I heard the word crack I knew right away the seriousness of the situation.

No one controls crack. No one. Crack controls every one who smokes it.

 

I had a friend, a girl I really liked, get involved with crack.

She was amazingly smart and was my lab partner in Trig.

She disappeared a week before the final exam and after the exam she hooked up with me. She told me she met this guy and they spent three days smoking rocks. She was dis-shelved and had not eaten much. She lost 20lbs in one week.

The last I heard from her was through a friend. She got pregnant, was living in a shack in Sanford in a bad area where I refuse to go.

She got pregnant. Had the baby (crack baby). Boyfriend left her, later died, and she was working the streets to get enough money to get another rock.

 

Crack is a terrible thing.

 


Beyond Saving
atheist
Beyond Saving's picture
Posts: 5479
Joined: 2007-10-12
User is offlineOffline
digitalbeachbum wrote:Walk

digitalbeachbum wrote:

Walk away, but if you feel you need to, explain to your friend your feelings then walk away and don't look back.

I agree with Brian. When I heard the word crack I knew right away the seriousness of the situation.

No one controls crack. No one. Crack controls every one who smokes it.

Probably good advice, and also probably advice I will ignore, I've never been good at walking away from friends. Even those who I know are going to cause me a lot of harm. Next time he needs to borrow money from me at a poker table though he will probably find his credit limit is much smaller than it used to be.

 

digitalbeachbum wrote:

Crack is a terrible thing.

Yes, it is. 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


Vastet
atheistBloggerSuperfan
Vastet's picture
Posts: 13211
Joined: 2006-12-25
User is offlineOffline
This is a really tricky

This is a really tricky subject. I envisioned myself in this situation and I'm pretty sure I'd have made some excuse to leave after an hour or two. Beyond that.. I have no idea what the relationship with the ex is. Can't make a comment other than to say unless I was VERY close with said ex, I wouldn't bother telling her. And I sure as hell wouldn't if we were on bad terms. Too much potential for drama.
Either way, the cousins wouldn't be appreciative. I'd be torpedoing any kind of friendship potential there, maybe even make a couple enemies. I'd probably only risk that if my ex and I were very close, in which case not telling her would be worse for our relationship than telling her when the cousins are inevitably revealed, and they mention I knew about it.
Like you I'd want to help my friend. Though I'd be watching carefully along the way. I have some experience with users of cocaine and crack which would bias me a bit. I'd only put in a certain amount of effort before I gave up and cut ties.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


Vastet
atheistBloggerSuperfan
Vastet's picture
Posts: 13211
Joined: 2006-12-25
User is offlineOffline
I don't consider any of this

I don't consider any of this advice. You're quite capable of evaluating the situation yourself, I think you just wanted to release something that was bothering you and maybe get others perspectives. So this is how I would approach the scenario.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


harleysportster
atheist
harleysportster's picture
Posts: 3359
Joined: 2010-10-17
User is offlineOffline
Beyond Saving wrote:Probably

Beyond Saving wrote:

Probably good advice, and also probably advice I will ignore, I've never been good at walking away from friends. Even those who I know are going to cause me a lot of harm. Next time he needs to borrow money from me at a poker table though he will probably find his credit limit is much smaller than it used to be.

That sounds a lot like me.

I have had friends that I have gone to hell and back for. Some of them turned out to be true friends, and others turned out to be just takers. I don't regret either situation on that.

I do not use the word friend very lightly and when I say that I am someone's friend, I am someone's friend. Unless they start obviously fucking me over of course.

Hell, there was a time in my life when I was at the bottom of the barrel and had someone not stuck by me through it, I might have very seriously eaten a bullet.

That having been said though, I would proceed with a LOT of caution.

I have seen crack take some people down and I do mean DOWN. Good people that were as stand up as you could imagine at one point that ended up breaking into people's houses and taking television sets. I have also seen people that have tried to help or be friends with people that are on crack get taken down the drain as well.

A buddy of mine had a girlfriend that got hooked on that shit. He deeply loved her and ended up maxing out credit cards, borrowing money and everything else in an attempt to help her. This was not to support her habit either. We are talking, bailing her out of jail, paying for her to go to treatment, etc.

Hell, he and I were out riding around until 4 am one morning because he was looking for her. He had dropped her off at rehab and she had never checked in. His whole life ended up being a wreck before he finally had to let her go.

I do not think that your being hypocritical about the two girls. I think that is only natural.

 

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


Brian37
atheistSuperfan
Brian37's picture
Posts: 15834
Joined: 2006-02-14
User is offlineOffline
Beyond Saving

Beyond Saving wrote:

digitalbeachbum wrote:

Walk away, but if you feel you need to, explain to your friend your feelings then walk away and don't look back.

I agree with Brian. When I heard the word crack I knew right away the seriousness of the situation.

No one controls crack. No one. Crack controls every one who smokes it.

Probably good advice, and also probably advice I will ignore, I've never been good at walking away from friends. Even those who I know are going to cause me a lot of harm. Next time he needs to borrow money from me at a poker table though he will probably find his credit limit is much smaller than it used to be.

 

digitalbeachbum wrote:

Crack is a terrible thing.

Yes, it is. 

Beyond, I can tell you even with pot and booze, I have seen people do stupid shit and try to draw me into their drama. I think pot SHOULD be legal. But in any case of any drug even if legal, the person who projects their risk on you by blindsiding you with it, IS NOT YOUR FRIEND. I hate morons who drink too much at a bar and drive, and unfortunately they can be the nicest people outside that moment of stupidity, but their own narcissism of "I can handle it" fails to understand. You play a game long enough, especially stupid risk, your number will come up.

No one I have ever known who gets drunk at a bar, is pragmatic. They would never take a brethalizer with them to scientifically know they were illegal, and then hand the keys over. If there are pragmatic people like that, I have yet to meet one. But we are not even talking about something legal here. Crack is illegal and on top of that it is Drano to the brain.

You say you own a business, then mixing with this is playing with fire. And I don't own a business and I can tell you I would RUN at the first sight of it. Whatever friendship you had before he started doing this is not worth you risking what you have.

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37