Adopt a pet

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Adopt a pet

 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2296572/PETA-killed-1-600-cats-dogs-Virginia-headquarters-year--90-animals-handed-charitys-American-shelter.html

Every couple of years PETA starts catching some flack for euthanizing dogs and cats that are "unadoptable". It certainly is hypocritical that an organization which is militantly against killing animals for meat, fur or leather is involved with the mass slaughter of animals for no useful reason at all. Next time you are going to get a pet, consider going to your local animal shelter. I have been a chronic dog owner all my life and all of them (including the now deceased Husky that graces my avatar) have been shelter dogs.

My current dog was a "red zone" dog, abused as a puppy, that was going to be euthanized because his aggressive behavior made him unsuitable for the majority of pet owners. Now he is a gentle giant that will lick you to death and has reached the point where he will play nice with other dogs. I strongly believe there is no such thing as a dog that cannot be rehabilitated and there is little that is more rewarding than turning an aggressive animal into a loving and faithful companion.

So many people go out and buy puppies/kittens because they think they need to bond with the animal from a young age. They are cute, but puppies/kittens are overrated and it is possible to create a close owner-pet bond even with very old animals. Next time you find yourself in the market for a pet, please consider saving the life of one that doesn't have a home and if you have the time, patience, ability and environment (kid free) consider saving one that is aggressive. It is a huge problem and there is no easy solution, but you can make a difference in the life of one animal.  

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Holly shit dude. First off I

Holly shit dude. First off I do not agree with everything PETA goes on about. But putting down strays or unwanted pets is far more humane  than what is done to the horses used in horse races or cows in meat processing plants. Atheists for the most part would argue that abortion is preferable to an unwanted kid who would grow up abused and then turn out with baggage and or criminal behavior we would end up paying for long term.

 

You flabbergast me as well. You have more compassion for pets than you do humans. Why don't you apply some of your logic to economics. You can be so right on some issues but totally nuts and bat shit insane on others.

PETA like any organization, and any human for that matter, including me is capable of being right about some things but not all things. I think once you get that you'll understand why I am a thorn in your side so much.

The Beyond I like is the guy who admitted he locked his keys in his car. The Beyond I hate is the "you want to rob me" bullshit you always spew.

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Brian37 wrote:Holly shit

Brian37 wrote:

Holly shit dude. First off I do not agree with everything PETA goes on about. But putting down strays or unwanted pets is far more humane  than what is done to the horses used in horse races or cows in meat processing plants. Atheists for the most part would argue that abortion is preferable to an unwanted kid who would grow up abused and then turn out with baggage and or criminal behavior we would end up paying for long term.

I think finding a home for the animals is far more preferable than killing them. I only support no-kill shelters. As you know, I have no problem with killing animals and have killed many myself, but I do think that killing should be done for a reason. PETA's killing is senseless and I find it very distasteful. To twist it around and pretend that killing an animal somehow is good for the animal is absurd. We kill animals for our selfish purposes, not for the benefit of the animal and I see no reason to pretend otherwise. My intention with this post though was more towards raising awareness of the problem of shelter pets that are not adopted and encouraging people to consider adoption over purchasing rather than an attack on PETA.   

 

Brian37 wrote:
 

You flabbergast me as well. You have more compassion for pets than you do humans. Why don't you apply some of your logic to economics. You can be so right on some issues but totally nuts and bat shit insane on others.

I have never made it a secret that I prefer dogs to humans. Is there some reason why I should care more about humans than dogs? 

 

Brian37 wrote:
 

PETA like any organization, and any human for that matter, including me is capable of being right about some things but not all things. I think once you get that you'll understand why I am a thorn in your side so much.

Oh, I think PETA is right about all sorts of things. I am a huge fan of their protests and a big supporter of public nudity even though I vehemently disagree with their anti-hunting, anti-meat and anti-pet stances.  

 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Yea finding a home IS

Yea finding a home IS preferable. Like livable wages and universal health care is better than "sink or swim". But come on now be constant. If that pet/human cant fend for themselves what skin is it off your nose if they die?

See you cant make this a hypocrisy issue here. I eat meat and certainly don't want to be part of the process that my cow ends up a burger. But I am AWARE, unlike you economically who think nothing you do affects others.

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Brian37 wrote:Yea finding a

Brian37 wrote:

Yea finding a home IS preferable. Like livable wages and universal health care is better than "sink or swim". But come on now be constant. If that pet/human cant fend for themselves what skin is it off your nose if they die?

I don't support euthanizing healthy humans and I don't support euthanizing healthy dogs or cats. Sounds pretty consistent to me.  

 

Brian37 wrote:

See you cant make this a hypocrisy issue here. I eat meat and certainly don't want to be part of the process that my cow ends up a burger.

Then why do you participate in that process? No one is forcing you to be part of it and you have many other options available to you. 

 

Brian37 wrote:

But I am AWARE, unlike you economically who think nothing you do affects others.

Yet you seem blissfully unaware that your purchase of hamburger perpetuates a process you claim you don't want to be part of.  

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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I am not against hunting I

I am not against hunting I am against pretending that it is a sport. It is a trick, it is a trap. A sport implies a game where rules and equipment are equal to both parties. I understand our species leftover hunting and gathering, we do need food, and hunting before super markets was the norm. My only hang up is STOP CALLING IT A SPORT!

Why do you think it makes you "feel like a man" to kill something with less brain capacity than you have? We kill to eat, that's it, but to pretend that we are superior is absurd when bacteria and cockroaches outnumber humans.

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Beyond Saving wrote:Brian37

Beyond Saving wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

Yea finding a home IS preferable. Like livable wages and universal health care is better than "sink or swim". But come on now be constant. If that pet/human cant fend for themselves what skin is it off your nose if they die?

I don't support euthanizing healthy humans and I don't support euthanizing healthy dogs or cats. Sounds pretty consistent to me.  

 

Brian37 wrote:

See you cant make this a hypocrisy issue here. I eat meat and certainly don't want to be part of the process that my cow ends up a burger.

Then why do you participate in that process? No one is forcing you to be part of it and you have many other options available to you. 

 

Brian37 wrote:

But I am AWARE, unlike you economically who think nothing you do affects others.

Yet you seem blissfully unaware that your purchase of hamburger perpetuates a process you claim you don't want to be part of.  

Funny considering I JUST FUCKING ADMITTED THAT!

You get focused on subject matter. We could be talking about the proper use of lint, or how to masturbate, or who is is a worse dictator Stalin or Hitler. You are the fucking idiot who gets focused on labels missing the fact that my entire beef with you is and has been "THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A SCRIPT". Your projectionism is the the same Ayn Rand bullshit religion pulls.

 

When you can point out to me I ever said or claimed in any one of my threads I was perfect and had all the right answers I will concede. So do me a favor and stop projecting your failed economics on the rest of society. If it was so fucking good we wouldn't be in this mess.

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PETA needs to die. Their

PETA needs to die. Their hypocrisy and stupidity is mind boggling. Why they haven't been classified as a terrorist organisation is beyond me.

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  Due to circumstances

  Due to circumstances beyond my control ( other stupid pet owners ) I am now up to six cats again.  The newest stray I named Little Boy and he is scheduled to get his nuts removed.  Every cat I have ever owned was immediately sterilized to prevent further births and hence prevent more suffering.

  It's funny how many members of an AR 15 based forum that I lurk on are confirmed cat lovers.  You would think that based upon that manly demographic that they would be cat haters but just the opposite is true.  Many pictures are posted on the forum of the family cat stretched out with it's paw resting on pistols, assault rifles, etc.    One member even has a very exotic ( and huge )  hybrid called a Savannah that sells for about $15,000 USD.  That's a lot of love.

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Cats are the ultimate land

Cats are the ultimate land predator after humans. Every man should have a cat. They're awesome. You don't even need to take much care of them. Food, water, and a litter box is all they need.

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  Yes, their predatory

  Yes, their predatory instinct are well developed even within the domestic house cat.  Still I have taken birds and baby squirrels away from my cats when I discover them obeying their normal urges.  As predators they have no compassion for their prey but I still couldn't let them kill just to kill.  I know, I'm looking at nature through an idealized, unrealistic way but I just couldn't let them do it, lol.

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It's usually the aftermath

It's usually the aftermath when I find out. I've known a cat who would kill flies and line them up neatly on the windowsill.And another who would drop every single kill it made on its owners doorstep. But I almost never see the battle as it goes down, else I would do the same.
Well, I doubt I'd protect the flies.

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Vastet wrote:PETA needs to

Vastet wrote:
PETA needs to die. Their hypocrisy and stupidity is mind boggling. Why they haven't been classified as a terrorist organisation is beyond me.

Probably because the worst "act of terror" they have ever performed is pouring blood on somebody's fur coat.

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


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Bullshit.

Bullshit.

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Beyond... I take it you've

Beyond... I take it you've never met or seen a fighting dog. The ones raised for fighting are "red zone" animals... they aren't capable of being rehabbed.

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


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Vastet wrote:Bullshit.K. If

Vastet wrote:
Bullshit.

K. If you know of a worse one they've done, cough it up as evidence. Sticking out tongue


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Brian37 wrote:I am not

Brian37 wrote:

I am not against hunting I am against pretending that it is a sport. It is a trick, it is a trap. A sport implies a game where rules and equipment are equal to both parties. I understand our species leftover hunting and gathering, we do need food, and hunting before super markets was the norm. My only hang up is STOP CALLING IT A SPORT!

I don't really give a flying fuck what you want to call it. PETA is rabidly against hunting, yet they slaughter animals that are in their care and throw the bodies in the garbage. I think that is pretty hypocritical, but again, the point of my thread was to encourage people to consider adoption instead of purchasing pets. Honestly, I thought that would be a topic we could agree on. I'm surprised you support the mass slaughter of cats and dogs. 

 

Brian37 wrote:

Why do you think it makes you "feel like a man" to kill something with less brain capacity than you have? We kill to eat, that's it, but to pretend that we are superior is absurd when bacteria and cockroaches outnumber humans.

Did I ever say hunting makes me "feel like a man"? Did I ever say humans are superior? (I seem to remember saying I prefer dogs to humans) People kill for many reasons beyond just eating. PETA kills because they are too lazy to try to save the animals, something which I find unnecessary and distasteful. Why do you support the senseless mass slaughter of dogs and cats?

 

Brian37 wrote:

You get focused on subject matter.

Guilty as charged. Of course, you never let silly things like subject matter distract you from lecturing about completely unrelated subjects.

 

Brian37 wrote:

We could be talking about the proper use of lint, or how to masturbate, or who is is a worse dictator Stalin or Hitler.

We could and you would still be obsessing about my economics views. 

 

Brian37 wrote:

You are the fucking idiot who gets focused on labels missing the fact that my entire beef with you is and has been "THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A SCRIPT". Your projectionism is the the same Ayn Rand bullshit religion pulls.

What labels have I focused on in this thread? What does Ayn Rand have to do with PETA killing animals or my opinions about animal shelters? I do know she was a big fan of cats, so maybe she would be disgusted with PETA too. Life might not be a script, but your posts certainly are and the topic of the thread be damned. 

 

Brian37 wrote:
 

When you can point out to me I ever said or claimed in any one of my threads I was perfect and had all the right answers I will concede. So do me a favor and stop projecting your failed economics on the rest of society. If it was so fucking good we wouldn't be in this mess.

What do my opinions on economics have to do with PETA killing 90% of the dogs and cats in their care? 

 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Kapkao wrote:Vastet

Kapkao wrote:

Vastet wrote:
Bullshit.

K. If you know of a worse one they've done, cough it up as evidence. Sticking out tongue

They've given grants to the ALF and ELF, organisations which the FBI has declared domestic terrorism organisations. If that's not good enough for you then I no longer care about your opinion.

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ProzacDeathWish wrote:  Due

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

  Due to circumstances beyond my control ( other stupid pet owners ) I am now up to six cats again.  The newest stray I named Little Boy and he is scheduled to get his nuts removed.  Every cat I have ever owned was immediately sterilized to prevent further births and hence prevent more suffering.

  It's funny how many members of an AR 15 based forum that I lurk on are confirmed cat lovers.  You would think that based upon that manly demographic that they would be cat haters but just the opposite is true.  Many pictures are posted on the forum of the family cat stretched out with it's paw resting on pistols, assault rifles, etc.    One member even has a very exotic ( and huge )  hybrid called a Savannah that sells for about $15,000 USD.  That's a lot of love.

 

I have always been more of a dog person, but I have adopted a stray cat. Or more accurately the cat adopted me. He just started hanging out around the house about four months ago; my guess is that someone just dumped him off because he is quite affectionate and has been neutered. I don't feed him or anything but he seems to be doing quite well catching birds and presumably rodents. Whenever I am working on something out in the garage or the yard he follows me around. They are certainly charming critters. 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Vastet wrote:Kapkao

Vastet wrote:
Kapkao wrote:

Vastet wrote:
Bullshit.

K. If you know of a worse one they've done, cough it up as evidence. Sticking out tongue

They've given grants to the ALF and ELF, organisations which the FBI has declared domestic terrorism organisations. If that's not good enough for you then I no longer care about your opinion.

No need to get touchy... Eye-wink

So they aid and abet (eco?)terrorists. But what actual acts of terror have they done?

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


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Aiding and abetting criminal

Aiding and abetting criminal activity is a criminal activity. Whether or not actual PETA members have personally blown stuff up is rather beside the point, and as a result I don't find it necessary to bother to find out.

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Kapkao wrote:Beyond... I

Kapkao wrote:

Beyond... I take it you've never met or seen a fighting dog. The ones raised for fighting are "red zone" animals... they aren't capable of being rehabbed.

I have met them, never personally worked with one but they are capable of being rehabbed. There are organizations that specialize in such cases, for example Best Friends Animal Sanctuary in Utah and BADRAP in California took Michael Vick's fighting dogs and successfully rehabbed many of them.

http://www.badrap.org/ 

http://bestfriends.org/ 

http://www.lifewithdogs.tv/2012/11/seven-survivors-of-michael-vicks-dog-fighting-ring-reunite-five-years-later/

All those dogs in the picture were "fighting dogs" that supposedly were not capable of being rehabbed and now have loving homes.  

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Beyond Saving wrote:Kapkao

Beyond Saving wrote:

Kapkao wrote:

Beyond... I take it you've never met or seen a fighting dog. The ones raised for fighting are "red zone" animals... they aren't capable of being rehabbed.

I have met them, never personally worked with one but they are capable of being rehabbed. There are organizations that specialize in such cases, for example Best Friends Animal Sanctuary in Utah and BADRAP in California took Michael Vick's fighting dogs and successfully rehabbed many of them.

http://www.badrap.org/ 

http://bestfriends.org/ 

http://www.lifewithdogs.tv/2012/11/seven-survivors-of-michael-vicks-dog-fighting-ring-reunite-five-years-later/

All those dogs in the picture were "fighting dogs" that supposedly were not capable of being rehabbed and now have loving homes.  

I stand corrected. Some fighting dogs can be rehabilitated. All? A Law & Order episode leaves me in doubt.

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


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Kapkao wrote:I stand

Kapkao wrote:

I stand corrected. Some fighting dogs can be rehabilitated. All? A Law & Order episode leaves me in doubt.

Well it is impossible to prove "all" and it is an extremely time consuming process with severe cases like fighting dogs. I do believe that any dog could be rehabbed given a skilled trainer and enough time. Unfortunately, the majority of the time the police put down fighting dogs without even giving them a chance and many shelters will put them down because they don't have the money, resources or qualified people to take care of aggressive dogs.   

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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 Since our society lacks

 Since our society lacks the money, resources or qualified people to take care of aggressive people, it's unlikely that those items will ever be provided for animals.  I am much more in favor of spay and neuter programs than putting animals down.

On the subject of rehabilitation, however, I respectfully disagree that animals can be rehabilitated.  She isn't a fighting dog (unless food is involved) but my little daschund was a rescue dog.  In the 5 years I've owned her, she has never been successfully housebroken.  I've read that this can be part of the breed, but it certainly leads to the question of rehabilitating a pitbull or rotweiller.  A skilled professional would have better luck, to be sure, but I'm not entirely convinced that it's possible and since there aren't enough skilled professionals around, is it better to allow the animal to live with what constitutes a mental disorder or put the animal out of its misery?

(Before the questions come in...yes, I tried crate training.  yes, she has access to outside with a dog door.  yes, she is given positive praise when she goes outside.  yes, she has been checked by a vet for blockage/infection. yes, she is well cared for a loved.  yes, i've put her on a schedule with food and water and routine trips outside.  no, she doesn't really give a damn and still prefers the carpet if we aren't watching.)


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JCE wrote:...she doesn't

JCE wrote:
...she doesn't really give a damn and still prefers the carpet if we aren't watching.)

                                  

                                                                    Doggie diapers ?

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Beyond Saving wrote:Well it

Beyond Saving wrote:

Well it is impossible to prove "all" and it is an extremely time consuming process with severe cases like fighting dogs. I do believe that any dog could be rehabbed given a skilled trainer and enough time. Unfortunately, the majority of the time the police put down fighting dogs without even giving them a chance and many shelters will put them down because they don't have the money, resources or qualified people to take care of aggressive dogs.   

I should point I wasn't asking anyone to "prove all", merely stating my $0.02.

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


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JCE wrote: Since our

JCE wrote:

 Since our society lacks the money, resources or qualified people to take care of aggressive people, it's unlikely that those items will ever be provided for animals.  I am much more in favor of spay and neuter programs than putting animals down.

On the subject of rehabilitation, however, I respectfully disagree that animals can be rehabilitated.  She isn't a fighting dog (unless food is involved) but my little daschund was a rescue dog.  In the 5 years I've owned her, she has never been successfully housebroken.  I've read that this can be part of the breed, but it certainly leads to the question of rehabilitating a pitbull or rotweiller.  A skilled professional would have better luck, to be sure, but I'm not entirely convinced that it's possible and since there aren't enough skilled professionals around, is it better to allow the animal to live with what constitutes a mental disorder or put the animal out of its misery?

(Before the questions come in...yes, I tried crate training.  yes, she has access to outside with a dog door.  yes, she is given positive praise when she goes outside.  yes, she has been checked by a vet for blockage/infection. yes, she is well cared for a loved.  yes, i've put her on a schedule with food and water and routine trips outside.  no, she doesn't really give a damn and still prefers the carpet if we aren't watching.)

I actually think that it is easier to deal with aggression issues than it is urine/defecating issues, mainly because when you are dealing with an aggression issue it is easy to be around 100% of the time to correct the behavior. With any dog behavior consistency and repetition are the most important parts. I can spend a day repeatedly taking away food and returning it to a dog with aggressive possession issues and I can easily correct the behavior every time. The only limitations I have is my own patience and how many times I am willing to take the food. The dog will give up on the aggressive behavior long before I get impatient. Similarly, when I am training them to reduce aggression towards people or other dogs, I can have absolute control of which people and which dogs are around, and have them removed or added to the situation at will. When I am not around, the dog is separated from other dogs and people so there is no opportunity for the aggressive behavior.

With housetraining issues it is far more difficult because for most people, following your dog around the house 24/7 is not possible and the opportunities to catch the dog and quickly correct the issue are limited to once a day. It is simply impossible to control all the factors like you can dealing with aggression, which makes the training less consistent and therefore more difficult.

Something you might want to consider is that it might not be a housetraining issue, it might be a marking issue. Marking is rarer among female dogs than male dogs, but it is not unheard of especially among rescue dogs and is more common with smaller breeds. Conventional housetraining won't work, because those techniques are assuming that the problem is that the dog needs to urinate/defecate. The actual problem may be that the dog is marking the house as her territory. If, for example, you take her for a walk outside and she holds it or maybe even goes outside but then shortly after getting inside will sneak off and urinate on the carpet that would be an indication of marking behavior.

Here are a couple of articles that might help you

http://www.paw-rescue.org/PAW/PETTIPS/DogTip_Marking.php

http://www.dogchatforum.com/dog-marking-inside.htm#.UVTBKxxkxTM 

Half of the training a dog is identifying exactly what the problem is and why the dog is exhibiting the undesirable behavior. Since it varies from dog to dog and situation to situation it can be quite difficult sometimes. Personally, I would rather be bitten than deal with urinating problems. Good luck.      

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X