Dear Malala, Please Go Back To School

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Dear Malala, Please Go Back To School

 

Pakistani schoolgirl thanks god, credits prayer in first public statement since Taliban attack.

 

Malala Yousafzai, the Pakistani girl shot in an attempted assassination by the Taliban in October, has spoken publicly for the first time of her recovery in Britain, saying God has given her "a second life" thanks to the prayers of those who supported her around the world.

In a short video recorded in the days before her most recent operations on Saturday, Malala said: "Today you can see that I am alive. I can speak, I can see you, I can see everyone and . . . I am getting better day by day. It's just because of the prayers of people. Because all people - men, women, children - all of them have prayed for me.

"And because of these prayers God has given me this new life . . . and this is a second life. And I want to serve. I want to serve the people. I want every girl, every child, to be educated."

 

http://www.smh.com.au/world/malala-speaks-for-the-first-time-since-shooting-20130205-2dv4u.htm

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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Malala we love you, we

Malala we love you, we really do, and you exemplify the courage most wish they could have. And we are thrilled that the middle east has brave girls like you who are trying to pull the east into the modern era.

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But

Brian37 wrote:

Malala we love you, we really do, and you exemplify the courage most wish they could have. And we are thrilled that the middle east has brave girls like you who are trying to pull the east into the modern era.

 

we really, really hope when you found your schools they actually do try to appreciate the modern era. Including the medical science and hardworking doctors and nurses who did not use prayer to save your life.  

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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They will kill her if they

They will kill her if they have the chance.


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digitalbeachbum wrote:They

digitalbeachbum wrote:

They will kill her if they have the chance.

And that would be stupid. And not just about her. There was outrage over the girl forced to marry her rapist in Morocco who committed suicide. There is growing outrage in India over rape of women being acceptable. And our age of media is allowing more and more women of all cultures a voice.

If they do kill her they, long term, will only stoke the fire of progression, which is where we are headed anyway.

Women around the world are growing in power and no matter what these pigs do, they will not win long term. I hope she has a lifetime of protection and I do wish her all the best. Ayaan was also threatened but so far she is doing ok.

Muslim men need to grow the fuck up. Women are NOT property and we in the west do not give one fuck about these pigs thinking girls and women are property. Muslim men can get with the modern era or get left behind. Either way they will not win.

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For someone who always talks

For someone who always talks about labels you don't seem to have a problem generalising an entire gender and culture.
Also, just because females won rights here does not mean they'll win them there any time soon. Hopefully they will, but that isn't the pressing concern for many of those cultures right now. Women got rights in North America during times of prosperity and peace, which is historically when most social progress occurs. In Canada and the U.S.A., women were well on the way to being able to vote long before WWI broke out. The movement towards it took 70 odd years, beginning around the 1850's, and culminated in the right to vote between 1910 and 1920. And it took this long in a society which had largely shackled its religion. The christians had already been through the age of enlightenment, and much of the womens movement was done by using that very religion to spread feminism.
The muslims haven't gone through the age of enlightenment, and they still have direct authority in their cultures.

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Women can't use the muslim

Women can't use the muslim religion the way they used the christian religion.
Countries are also having pressure put on them from outside sources, which did not happen in North America, and which automatically raises barriers. Noone likes being told what to do by outsiders (often not even by friends and family), and the very action of telling a culture what to do can have the opposite effect of what is intended by doing so.
There are tools available now which may allow the womens movement to move much faster than it ever could have even 50 years ago, but the primary concerns of most of those cultures are survival. Whether because of enemies or famine or sanctions or a dozen other bigger problems that the people are facing. The fastest way to get equal rights going in the middle east and Africa is to ensure their prosperity. Once they don't have to worry about their next meal or bombs falling or aids or foreign interference, they'll have enough spare time to start worrying about fixing human rights problems.

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Vastet wrote:For someone who

Vastet wrote:
For someone who always talks about labels you don't seem to have a problem generalising an entire gender and culture. Also, just because females won rights here does not mean they'll win them there any time soon. Hopefully they will, but that isn't the pressing concern for many of those cultures right now. Women got rights in North America during times of prosperity and peace, which is historically when most social progress occurs. In Canada and the U.S.A., women were well on the way to being able to vote long before WWI broke out. The movement towards it took 70 odd years, beginning around the 1850's, and culminated in the right to vote between 1910 and 1920. And it took this long in a society which had largely shackled its religion. The christians had already been through the age of enlightenment, and much of the womens movement was done by using that very religion to spread feminism. The muslims haven't gone through the age of enlightenment, and they still have direct authority in their cultures.

What?

Ok, so most women in the east are not subject to some degree of sexist culture? Where did I say all Muslim women are treated like the Taliban treated Malala? I never said that. But to say that it doesn't exist to a great degree is absurd. And where did I say the west doesn't have its degree of sexism? Women still in the west get paid less than most men on average. And we have our christian right wing and LDS and Amish who do the same thing.

And women like Malala WILL help not only Muslim women, but India's tollarence of rape is getting old real quick. The point is I am not giving her kudos for being a Muslim. I am giving her kudos for the HUMAN STRUGGLE. It is something many minority in human history can and often goes through. Malala is an example of human courage, the labels she holds are irrelevant but if it helps the middle east get to the modern age, even better.

 

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You don't get it.

You don't get it.

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I was disappointed she gave

I was disappointed she gave credit to prayers and god and didn't even mention the medical staff. I would think the medical staff must get pissed at times that an invisible man in the sky always gets the credit and they get the blame. A wacky world indeed.

Religion Kills !!!

Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

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ex-minister wrote:I was

ex-minister wrote:
I was disappointed she gave credit to prayers and god and didn't even mention the medical staff. I would think the medical staff must get pissed at times that an invisible man in the sky always gets the credit and they get the blame. A wacky world indeed.

Ain't that the damned truth ?

I would hate to have to work around the clock to save people's lives and only have them say : "Well, I KNOW that is was GOD".

Especially when someone in medical/health care has literally seen thousands of unfortunate people die in that same situation.

It would probably make me far more cynical and Anti-Theist than I already am.

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


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People in medicine tend to

People in medicine tend to be more religious than other sciences. I'm sure a few mind, but probably not the majority. It's an imperfect science, and not all things can be attributed to doctors and nurses and patients. I've heard a great number of doctors passing off their own work as the work of a god instead, saying they couldn't figure out why whatever happened, happened. Good and bad.

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Vastet wrote: I've heard a

Vastet wrote:
I've heard a great number of doctors passing off their own work as the work of a god instead, saying they couldn't figure out why whatever happened, happened. Good and bad.

It could very well make a very convenient opt out. Things go good = It was god (meaning please don't thank me too much as I will probably fuck things up before the day is over)

Things go bad = It must have been god (meaning it is more convenient to assign tragedy, loss and the inexplicable to a god than it is to adopt the old truism that shit happens)

 

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
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ex-minister wrote:I was

ex-minister wrote:
I was disappointed she gave credit to prayers and god and didn't even mention the medical staff. I would think the medical staff must get pissed at times that an invisible man in the sky always gets the credit and they get the blame. A wacky world indeed.

That is what she was raised in, it is to be expected. But there can be no doubt that she wants to buck the sexism of the Islam she is raised in.

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Vastet wrote:You don't get

Vastet wrote:
You don't get it.

Don't get what? That we are all human? That I could not be as brave as she was? I am not stuck on labels but I would be stupid to say they don't exist or play a part in a given culture.

Malala represents to me the same struggle blacks and women and gays and atheists go through. But to ignore that Islam is collectively behind the times compared to the west would be absurd.

To a much lesser degree she represents me when I was picked on by the bullies and jocks on my street. It sucks for any human to be a target of ignorance.

 

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harleysportster

harleysportster wrote:

ex-minister wrote:
I was disappointed she gave credit to prayers and god and didn't even mention the medical staff. I would think the medical staff must get pissed at times that an invisible man in the sky always gets the credit and they get the blame. A wacky world indeed.

Ain't that the damned truth ?

I would hate to have to work around the clock to save people's lives and only have them say : "Well, I KNOW that is was GOD".

Especially when someone in medical/health care has literally seen thousands of unfortunate people die in that same situation.

It would probably make me far more cynical and Anti-Theist than I already am.

I agree that that is absurd logic. But you don't get into the life saving business, such as doctor, EMT, cop or military to pass judgment.

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Destiny rules (at least in Islam):

Harley wrote:
.. Especially when someone in medical/health care literally has seen thousands of unfortunate people die in that similar situation.
To be honest not interested much in Islam (bigger fish to fry, one 'could' say). That said, I noticed in older Pre-Islamic cultures, though I'm not all that sure. I do know, They had/have a heavy belief in "destiny", something that would seriously dwarf any notions as the norns spinning the very threads of fate Or the Greek's Fates, like the Fates that controlled the destiny of gods and man. We should also delve into it a bit deeper, to explore the layers of meaning behind those beliefs, but only from a strictly Pre-Islamic view point, could I offer. Which I suggest may have shaped what became the Islamic religious notion themselves indepent of however desirious people are that it made no influence. Mainly, It is carried over to the level of pure madness in Islam, far beyond a mere large influence on events. . As if to say, EVERYTHING that happens is the will of Allah and timing could not be anything other than the moment a thing happens. The medical staff was destined to save her life, praise Allah. And if they were understaffed or had not reached her in time, then the timing was within the greater will of Allah (it was destined to be so). Damage that was caused, Allah & that she could be saved, Allah. I want to get across, this vein of thought can almost reach the level of madness ... Ex-Minister once asked Twd39 if anything random ever happens or not. She never answered (shock). But, I could imagine a thought like it would only seem random from the "human perspective" (dont quote me on this one).


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I posted this

 

because I was disappointed that after all the religious bullshit she'd been through she credited the non existent god who's doctrine hates her with saving her life, ignoring the men and women and empirical processes that did the real work. This said, and as Brian points out, she is a brave girl. Her push for education of women in the face of death threats really matters. Look at Iran and the free-thinking Iranian women who lead Europe's various Councils of Ex-Muslims. It's a beginning. 

Something good that comes out of this is the expansion of what Kohlberg called 'conventional morality' - what is considered right or wrong behaviour in a given society - into an ever more global expression of individual human rights. Women's rights, the right to an education, the right to live without threats and without violence. 

She's obviously a dynamite person and this event is likely to be the catalyst for a life's work. It will be interesting to see if she returns to Pakistan and if she relinquishes her faith. Same as everyone else, I'm all for her and what she is doing. Maybe the missive was carefully scripted for a home audience. No doubt there is plenty of private thanks day to day. 

I was just a disappointed, mildly angry agnostic atheist/anti-theist. 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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Atheistextremist

Atheistextremist wrote:

 

because I was disappointed that after all the religious bullshit she'd been through she credited the non existent god who's doctrine hates her with saving her life, ignoring the men and women and empirical processes that did the real work. This said, and as Brian points out, she is a brave girl. Her push for education of women in the face of death threats really matters. Look at Iran and the free-thinking Iranian women who lead Europe's various Councils of Ex-Muslims. It's a beginning. 

Something good that comes out of this is the expansion of what Kohlberg called 'conventional morality' - what is considered right or wrong behaviour in a given society - into an ever more global expression of individual human rights. Women's rights, the right to an education, the right to live without threats and without violence. 

She's obviously a dynamite person and this event is likely to be the catalyst for a life's work. It will be interesting to see if she returns to Pakistan and if she relinquishes her faith. Same as everyone else, I'm all for her and what she is doing. Maybe the missive was carefully scripted for a home audience. No doubt there is plenty of private thanks day to day. 

I was just a disappointed, mildly angry agnostic atheist/anti-theist. 

 

Interestingly enough, right after I picked up Nafisi's Reading Lolita in Tehran and a couple of her other books, I don't think I have ever heard of her mentioning whether she believes in god/religion one way or the other. I haven't read ALL of her works.

But the funny thing about it is, when I first discovered that book I was working in a call center that allowed workers to take books with them and read when the call volume was slow.

Being in those crowded cubicles, everyone knew what everyone was reading.

Inevitably, when someone would inquire as to what the book was about, their follow up question upon hearing the synopsis was : "Did she eventually become a christian when she escaped ?" (SIGH).

I have a current co-worker who is big in the Southern Baptist Church. I try to avoid her as much as possible (she's not as bad as the conspiracy nut, but almost). But, whenever a breakroom conversation about the Middle East situation comes up, there is almost inevitably a story of a hard-line Islamic, that "came to believe in the light of Jesus,risked his life to escape and is now dedicated to preaching the gospel of the Lord."

Snake oil salesmen if you ask me. It sounds so good to get out of Islamic fascism to get the benefits of the free world through Jesus. The people will inevitably open their pocketbooks.

Now, this girl is obviously not about doing that. But this topic brought that to mind.

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
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danatemporary wrote:As if to

danatemporary wrote:
As if to say, EVERYTHING that happens is the will of Allah and timing could not be anything other than the moment a thing happens. The medical staff was destined to save her life, praise Allah. And if they were understaffed or had not reached her in time, then the timing was within the greater will of Allah (it was destined to be so). Damage that was caused, Allah & that she could be saved, Allah. I want to get across, this vein of thought can almost reach the level of madness ... Ex-Minister once asked Twd39 if anything random ever happens or not. She never answered (shock). But, I could imagine a thought like it would only seem random from the "human perspective" (dont quote me on this one).

 

I had a similar discussion with a member of the Islamic faith. They said if a person was in an accident then Allah willed it. If they weren't in an accident then Allah willed it.

I said, so when a terrorist was killed? Allah willed it.

When a terrorist killed a group of people? Allah willed it.

So I replied. No. You got it all wrong, the FSM willed it and also willed it that you would believe in Allah.

(he wasn't happy about that)

So then I asked him "nothing is random?"

To which he replied, "No. Only the will of Allah."

 


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digitalbeachbum

digitalbeachbum wrote:

danatemporary wrote:
As if to say, EVERYTHING that happens is the will of Allah and timing could not be anything other than the moment a thing happens. The medical staff was destined to save her life, praise Allah. And if they were understaffed or had not reached her in time, then the timing was within the greater will of Allah (it was destined to be so). Damage that was caused, Allah & that she could be saved, Allah. I want to get across, this vein of thought can almost reach the level of madness ... Ex-Minister once asked Twd39 if anything random ever happens or not. She never answered (shock). But, I could imagine a thought like it would only seem random from the "human perspective" (dont quote me on this one).

 

I had a similar discussion with a member of the Islamic faith. They said if a person was in an accident then Allah willed it. If they weren't in an accident then Allah willed it.

I said, so when a terrorist was killed? Allah willed it.

When a terrorist killed a group of people? Allah willed it.

So I replied. No. You got it all wrong, the FSM willed it and also willed it that you would believe in Allah.

(he wasn't happy about that)

So then I asked him "nothing is random?"

To which he replied, "No. Only the will of Allah."

 

Duh, um duh....um.....My name is Allah duh, um.....

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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