Being atheist, does it answer your questions?

holda2nd
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Being atheist, does it answer your questions?

First of all, I want to say that I'm not in the position to defend theism/theists. Just want to know whether atheists in this forum have got their questions (regarding live, the universe, or any other puzzling inquiries) answered by becoming atheist, or at least you have got a quite satisfying answer.


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holda2nd wrote:First of all,

holda2nd wrote:

First of all, I want to say that I'm not in the position to defend theism/theists. Just want to know whether atheists in this forum have got their questions (regarding live, the universe, or any other puzzling inquiries) answered by becoming atheist, or at least you have got a quite satisfying answer.

Atheism is a position, not a world view. It does not answer any question, it is only a statement on one issue.

Atheism also does not address level of education or economic status. It does not automatically make a person moral or immoral. It is merely the statement of "off" on the position of a god existing.

 

Having said that since I came to the "off" position, I have ditched the fear mongering claptrap and tribalism theism sells.

Atheism is a position, not a tool.

 

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holda2nd wrote:First of all,

holda2nd wrote:

First of all, I want to say that I'm not in the position to defend theism/theists. Just want to know whether atheists in this forum have got their questions (regarding live, the universe, or any other puzzling inquiries) answered by becoming atheist, or at least you have got a quite satisfying answer.

Researching science and answering my questions about life and the Universe helped push me closer to atheism.  My research of all things scientific since I left theism tends to reinforce my feelings that god is not necessary to explain our world.

 

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cj
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what Brian37 said

Being atheist did not answer any questions about life, the universe and what all.  But being atheist made it a lot easier for me to accept life, the universe and what all.

 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.


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The same questions that you

The same questions that you answered by not believing in unicorns

 

 


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Becoming an Atheist drastically

Becoming an Atheist drastically altered several of my worldviews.

I no longer operated from this egocentric viewpoint that life and the universe was all about me.

I no longer thought that something was worried about whether or not I practiced sex outside of marriage.

I had to fully accept all responsibility for my actions and could not say it was "god testing me" or "diabolical influences".

I no longer believed that something was policing my thoughts and actions.

I understood that any altruism and good deeds on my part, were not going to gain me some eternal favors.

I understood that my actions had consequences and when bad things fell upon me, I had only myself to blame or the fact  that life just happens to people.

I even wrote a blog about the poisonous train of religious thought that I contained. You can find it here :

http://www.rationalresponders.com/why_belief_ultimate_purposes_was_poison_me

These are just my own personal experiences in Atheism.

You could just as easily say, that overcoming religious ideas set me free.

 

 

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
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No, atheism is merely a

No, atheism is merely a stance in regards to claims made of god(s)/deity(ies)/goddess(es)/supernatural beings. For worldviews that is more in the line of philosophy, science and attempting to understand the culture/society I live in......but atheism has nothing to do with my worldview per se except in regards to religious claims.


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harleysportster

harleysportster wrote:

Becoming an Atheist drastically altered several of my worldviews.

http://www.rationalresponders.com/why_belief_ultimate_purposes_was_poison_me

These are just my own personal experiences in Atheism.

You could just as easily say, that overcoming religious ideas set me free.

 

Just to clarify though, Atheism by itself, is not a dogma. There is no Atheist creed, Atheist Holy Book, Atheist Commandments, etc.

You can be an Atheist and a follower of science, an Atheist that does not follow science, an Atheist and a liberal, an Atheist and a conservative, an Atheist and a Nazi, an Atheist and a Communist, an Atheist and a Humanitarian, an Atheist and an Anti-Natalist, an Atheist and a criminal, an Atheist and a cop, etc. etc. etc.

When I was admitted to the hospital a couple of years ago, for some reason they asked me my religion, to which I replied, Atheist. But, in truth, that is not entirely true because Atheism is not a religion any more than not riding a motorcycle makes you a certain type of biker or not collecting baseball cards a hobby.

In answer to your question, becoming an Atheist helped me in tremendous ways, but I came from a heavily indoctrinated religious background. Some Atheists, that were born in non-religious homes and have never believed in god, would not report the same experiences that I have had.

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
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trying to conclude

Based on the responses, I'd say that atheists still have no satisfying answer regarding the origin (and end) of the universe, and what happens after a person dies (to narrowing down the questions.) If that's the case, I see moving from theism to atheism (for you guys) doesn't make really significant value.

-


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holda2nd wrote:satisfying

holda2nd wrote:

satisfying answer 

 

Would a lie satisfy you ? How about the simple honesty of "We don't know" ? 


 


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Atheism isn't really the

Atheism isn't really the answer to a question as much as it is a rejection of what some might consider erroneous or invalid answers to questions. Insofar as that is concerned, no, atheism did not answer my questions.

The answer to questions come from something that is not necessarily the exclusive domain of atheism -- if it can be said that atheism has such a domain. Answers come by inquiry and using systematic epistemic approaches.

“Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid.”


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holda2nd wrote:Based on the

holda2nd wrote:

Based on the responses, I'd say that atheists still have no satisfying answer regarding the origin (and end) of the universe, and what happens after a person dies (to narrowing down the questions.) If that's the case, I see moving from theism to atheism (for you guys) doesn't make really significant value.

 

 

                 Our answers may not satisfy you. Atheisim means only "No belief in a God"; THAT'S IT! it means nothing else. Has for origins of the universe I accept the Big Bang [so do meny religious people, in fact most of them.] Has for life after death; I expect to be cremated and have the ashes scattered over a strippers boobs.  [Anjalina Joli's boobs will be old and saggy by then so she is out.] I have never seen any evidence of a god or higher power therefore I am an atheist, do you have any evidence of a god, then show us; otherwise you are eather  an atheist or a theist with no evidence!

 

 

 

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holda2nd wrote:Based on the

holda2nd wrote:

Based on the responses, I'd say that atheists still have no satisfying answer regarding the origin (and end) of the universe, and what happens after a person dies (to narrowing down the questions.) If that's the case, I see moving from theism to atheism (for you guys) doesn't make really significant value.

I would have to disagree with that overall evaluation (only somewhat).

What happens after I die ? Probably the same thing that was happening to me before I was born, nothing.

What is the answer to the origin of the universe ? Science may / may not find out.

How does this effect me ?

Well, I can only answer that from my own personal experience and no one else's. I look at this short time that I have on Earth as a byproduct of a replicating DNA molecule that will one day die and be forgotten. Therefore, I see that I have a limited amount of time and heartbeats and there is no point in wasting them, dwelling on the possibility that a Yahweh/Allah figure is monitoring my everyday activity. In short, there is no ultimate purpose to this existence, except the purposes that I find. There are no ultimate answers. This gives me an extreme sense of liberation.

I don't matter to anyone in the great scheme of things. I matter to me and hopefully to those I care about. How many people in China, Europe, Australia, the U.S. and even within this city that I live in are actually thinking about me right now ? NO ONE.

So to me, Atheism has value to me (just me personally again) because I do not live with the notion that all meaning is arbitrated by god. (Deliberate lower case spelling on the part of a god).

Can Atheism cure my mortality ? No. But religion and philosophy have not done such a good job of that one either.

I was going to say, just my two cents, but with the rising price of the economy, I'll say that this is just my two dollars.

 

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


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Cpt_pineapple wrote:The same

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

The same questions that you answered by not believing in unicorns

 

 

I pride myself on simplifying needlessly complex arguments and you went and out did me.

 

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significant value

holda2nd wrote:

Based on the responses, I'd say that atheists still have no satisfying answer regarding the origin (and end) of the universe, and what happens after a person dies (to narrowing down the questions.) If that's the case, I see moving from theism to atheism (for you guys) doesn't make really significant value.

 

I do not waste time attending services that accomplish nothing.  I do not waste money giving to causes that I may not support.  (If I want to contribute to a charity, I first research, then do so directly.)  I do not waste money purchasing clothes that are only worn for a few hours one or more days a week.  These savings are of significant value to me.

I do not waste hours worrying about my actions - if they are sinful or not, as long as my actions are helpful, generous, not harmful, and further my personal goals, who cares if some invisible friend approves or not?  I do not waste hours attempting to make sense of an ancient document written by pastoralists (nomadic herders) and early agriculturists.  I do not waste time on trying to figure out how their world view applies to a world totally different from the semi-desert, sparsely populated, poor, and general armpit of the late bronze age/early iron age in what is now called the Middle East.  These savings are of significant value to me.

I don't waste time attempting to "convert" people who do not wish to be converted.  I do not waste time patting myself on the back for being so much better than all of those people not converted to the "perfect" interpretation of said ancient book that my particular group (religious community) adheres to.  These savings are of significant value to me.

I spend time researching, questioning, learning about the real world and how humans have impacted this world.  How humans interact with each other.  Why people believe the weird things that they believe.  How we can learn to be rationally based in reality to find real solutions to our problems -- rather than just push them off on some supernatural god/s/dess who obviously doesn't give a shit about humans.  These actions are of significant value to me.

In short, my significant value obtained from being an atheist is the freedom to explore and learn without the blinders most religions insist on.

As for the answers you are looking for - meh.  They are not necessary for living a full, productive, happy life.

 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.


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I think

I think you summed up exactly what I was trying to convey CJ


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cj wrote:holda2nd

cj wrote:

holda2nd wrote:

Based on the responses, I'd say that atheists still have no satisfying answer regarding the origin (and end) of the universe, and what happens after a person dies (to narrowing down the questions.) If that's the case, I see moving from theism to atheism (for you guys) doesn't make really significant value.

 

I do not waste time attending services that accomplish nothing.  I do not waste money giving to causes that I may not support.  (If I want to contribute to a charity, I first research, then do so directly.)  I do not waste money purchasing clothes that are only worn for a few hours one or more days a week.  These savings are of significant value to me.

I do not waste hours worrying about my actions - if they are sinful or not, as long as my actions are helpful, generous, not harmful, and further my personal goals, who cares if some invisible friend approves or not?  I do not waste hours attempting to make sense of an ancient document written by pastoralists (nomadic herders) and early agriculturists.  I do not waste time on trying to figure out how their world view applies to a world totally different from the semi-desert, sparsely populated, poor, and general armpit of the late bronze age/early iron age in what is now called the Middle East.  These savings are of significant value to me.

I don't waste time attempting to "convert" people who do not wish to be converted.  I do not waste time patting myself on the back for being so much better than all of those people not converted to the "perfect" interpretation of said ancient book that my particular group (religious community) adheres to.  These savings are of significant value to me.

I spend time researching, questioning, learning about the real world and how humans have impacted this world.  How humans interact with each other.  Why people believe the weird things that they believe.  How we can learn to be rationally based in reality to find real solutions to our problems -- rather than just push them off on some supernatural god/s/dess who obviously doesn't give a shit about humans.  These actions are of significant value to me.

In short, my significant value obtained from being an atheist is the freedom to explore and learn without the blinders most religions insist on.

As for the answers you are looking for - meh.  They are not necessary for living a full, productive, happy life.

 

Are you channeling Christopher Hitchens through a Ouija Board, because it sure sounds like it.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Brian37 wrote:Are you

Brian37 wrote:

Are you channeling Christopher Hitchens through a Ouija Board, because it sure sounds like it.

 

Well, since I haven't read any of Hitchens' books - gasp, blasphemy! - no.  It's my own original thoughts.  Any resemblance to any other person's thoughts, living or dead, is purely coincidental.

 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.


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cj wrote: Well, since I

cj wrote:

 

Well, since I haven't read any of Hitchens' books - gasp, blasphemy! - no.  It's my own original thoughts.  Any resemblance to any other person's thoughts, living or dead, is purely coincidental.

 

Laughing out loud

What's this ?

People thinking for themselves ?

NOT READING THE SACRED WORDS OF CHRISTOPHER HITCHENS ? ?  ?

WHY that is heresy ! HERESY !

For it says in the First Book of Atheism Chapter 19 Verse 34 : " And Christopher Hitchens came onto the Internet, and he did debateth many a theists, and for forty days and forty nights the world shook with thunder. And all the unbelievers in the land gathered together and proclaimed : "Thank Nothingness. An Atheist shall now lead us to the way, for it sayeth in the prophecy, that whosoever calleth onto Hitchens, shalled be cured ! But who so ever does not, shall be lead to think for themselves and not follow the No-God Religion.And the youtube  Atheists took to the internet in groups of three and four, and soon the Word was spread."

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


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The value of intellectual integrity

 

holda2nd wrote:

Based on the responses, I'd say that atheists still have no satisfying answer regarding the origin (and end) of the universe, and what happens after a person dies (to narrowing down the questions.) If that's the case, I see moving from theism to atheism (for you guys) doesn't make really significant value.

 

varies from person to person. I'm sure holda, you will concede that we can know nothing pre-bang. Nor can we know what happens to our neural workspace after we die. Evidence suggests its electrical waveforms die with us. Any suggestion we can know anything about either of these objective truth claims is offering hypotheses for which no objective data exists. 

The atheist position generally asks for testable explanations in relation to hypotheses about the universe while the theistic position holds there was a supernatural ignition and that god intervenes in the material world, by telekenesis or telepathy. And that we have an immaterial soul. Given there are no proofs of such things, leave alone useful definitions for god, supernatural, soul, spirit, immaterial, etc; the honest mind holds a skeptical position in relation to assertions about ambiguous labels that purport to explain natural phenomena.

The nature of your questions seems to have a subjective appeal to consequence in mind. That we might only accept proofs if they come with some advantage of feeling to us. Personally, being an atheist is scarier and lonelier and more meaningful than being a monotheist, particularly given that monotheism is not about asking questions but about accepting no answers. Atheism, which really means asking for a particular standard of evidence, is the braver alternative. 

It always entertains me to hear a theist argue blue murder for objective proof from atheists about knowable and unknowable things, and if unconvinced by the objective proof they insist is so vital, they'll cheerily accept a solution with no proof whatever. 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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cj wrote:Brian37 wrote:Are

cj wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

Are you channeling Christopher Hitchens through a Ouija Board, because it sure sounds like it.

 

Well, since I haven't read any of Hitchens' books - gasp, blasphemy! - no.  It's my own original thoughts.  Any resemblance to any other person's thoughts, living or dead, is purely coincidental.

 

You can be so simplistic and at other times eloquent and when I read your post I responded to, it made me think "damn, I wish I had put it in those words".

Quote:
Any resemblance to any other person's thoughts, living or dead, is purely coincidental.

Now you sound like the end of every TV series and movie. I do not want to think of you as the fine print.

 

 

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harleysportster wrote:cj

harleysportster wrote:

cj wrote:

 

Well, since I haven't read any of Hitchens' books - gasp, blasphemy! - no.  It's my own original thoughts.  Any resemblance to any other person's thoughts, living or dead, is purely coincidental.

 

Laughing out loud

What's this ?

People thinking for themselves ?

NOT READING THE SACRED WORDS OF CHRISTOPHER HITCHENS ? ?  ?

WHY that is heresy ! HERESY !

For it says in the First Book of Atheism Chapter 19 Verse 34 : " And Christopher Hitchens came onto the Internet, and he did debateth many a theists, and for forty days and forty nights the world shook with thunder. And all the unbelievers in the land gathered together and proclaimed : "Thank Nothingness. An Atheist shall now lead us to the way, for it sayeth in the prophecy, that whosoever calleth onto Hitchens, shalled be cured ! But who so ever does not, shall be lead to think for themselves and not follow the No-God Religion.And the youtube  Atheists took to the internet in groups of three and four, and soon the Word was spread."

Hitchens broketh the bread and said "Takeith this bread and eat it, for it is my nothingness. Then he passed around the bottle and said "Takith my vodka, for this is(well, took over my blood) and drink it.

 

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Brian37 wrote:Hitchens

Brian37 wrote:

Hitchens broketh the bread and said "Takeith this bread and eat it, for it is my nothingness. Then he passed around the bottle and said "Takith my vodka, for this is(well, took over my blood) and drink it.

 

LOL

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


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Brian37 wrote:cj

Brian37 wrote:

cj wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

Are you channeling Christopher Hitchens through a Ouija Board, because it sure sounds like it.

Well, since I haven't read any of Hitchens' books - gasp, blasphemy! - no.  It's my own original thoughts.  Any resemblance to any other person's thoughts, living or dead, is purely coincidental.

You can be so simplistic and at other times eloquent and when I read your post I responded to, it made me think "damn, I wish I had put it in those words".

 

Glad you liked the post.  It all depends on my level of patience at that moment.  Sometimes, I don't feel like taking the time.  Either my patience is at low ebb or the particular poster is rubbing me the wrong way.  I felt this poster deserved a thoughtful answer.

 

Brian37 wrote:

Quote:
Any resemblance to any other person's thoughts, living or dead, is purely coincidental.

Now you sound like the end of every TV series and movie. I do not want to think of you as the fine print.

 

I was just being a smart ass.

 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.


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Origin of the universe? God

Origin of the universe? God is not a satisfactory answer for me at all, the answers from science so far have provided a far more amazing answer than god did it, for me. The end of the universe, and for that matter after death, for me at least it shouldn't be any different than it was for me before I was born. There is no significant value for me to believe that there is a god at all since it doesn't answer anything at all, I prefer to seek truth than find comfort in lies of religion.


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 yep, Latin. And it even

 yep, Latin. And it even brings up more questions. It is not a fair trade at all.

 

EDIT: Just want to add I have frequented Christian websites recently and my point above is related to that. They just argue with each other over who their god is and what is "the truth". Barring politics I don't see much arguing going on here of who is RIGHT and who is WRONG. And I haven't met an atheist yet who said because I believe different than them I going to burn in hell.

 

Religion doesn't provide the answers the believers hoped for. Otherwise they would come together a lot more then they do. Religion is convergent. As we speak a new church is being created today because someone has a bug up their ass and they call that bug "god".

 

DOUBLE EDIT: I meant Religion is divergent.  DOH! 

Religion Kills !!!

Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

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ex-minister wrote: Religion

ex-minister wrote:

 

Religion doesn't provide the answers the believers hoped for. Otherwise they would come together a lot more then they do. Religion is convergent. As we speak a new church is being created today because someone has a bug up their ass and they call that bug "god".

Well said ex-minister.

I have had theists argue with me that "But your worldview does not offer eternal life." Offer eternal life ? Well, I can offer stuff all day long. Doesn't make it real.

I can offer some people ocean front property in Arizona, and even throw in the golden gates for free, doesn't prove that it is there.

I can't remember where the famous line comes from : "I got a tale to tell and it's not gonna cost you a dime ! (And if you believe that, we'll get along just fine !)

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


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It's called Snake Oil, Y'all

Harley,

Great album. Great Song. I got to see Steve Earle down in Alexandria, Va at a small clbu when this album first came out. Really enjoyed the show.

Pretty appropriate to the topic at hand.

 

 

 

Ladies and gentlemen, attention please

Come in close so everyone can see

I got a tale to tell

A listen don't cost a dime

And if you believe that we're gonna get along just fine

Now I've been travelin' all around

I heard trouble's come to your town

Well I've got a little somethin'

Guaranteed to ease your mind

It's call Snake Oil y'all

It's been around for a long, long time

 

Say, your crops'll burn if it don't rain soon

Ain't seen a drop since the tenth of June

Well I can open up the sky

People never fear

If you ain't impressed yet, just tell me what you wanna hear

 

Well you lost your farm so you moved to town

You get a job, they shut the factory down

Now you sit around all day long feelin' sad and blue

You need Snake Oil y'all, tell you what I'm gonna do

 

I can heal the sick, I can mend the lame

And the blind shall see again, it's all the same

 

Well ain't your President good to you

Knocked 'em dead in Libya, Grenada too

Now he's taking his show a little further down the line

Well, 'tween me and him people, you're gonna get along just fine

 

 

Religion Kills !!!

Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

http://jesus-needs-money.blogspot.com/


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That's the song !

That's the song ! I hate it when I got a tune on the tip of my tongue and can not identify the artist or the song.

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


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That is just exactly the

That is just exactly the truth.

 

Too bad I'm ethical or I would be a lot richer than I am now.

 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.


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 yep. I couldn't do the

 yep. I couldn't do the sell out thing as a minister. I could have been driving a Jaguar today ... if only ... if only...

And I wouldn't have to produce anything just make stuff up and repeat a bunch of platitudes.

So yeah, becoming an atheist ironically "saved my soul".  

Religion Kills !!!

Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

http://jesus-needs-money.blogspot.com/


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ex-minister wrote: yep. I

ex-minister wrote:

 yep. I couldn't do the sell out thing as a minister. I could have been driving a Jaguar today ... if only ... if only...

And I wouldn't have to produce anything just make stuff up and repeat a bunch of platitudes.

So yeah, becoming an atheist ironically "saved my soul".  

I love it.

All too often (and anyone raised in the church knows what I am talking about) we hear the testimony of some thug that cared about no one and did whatever they wanted...until Jesus saved their soul.

But, we never get to hear all of the stories of those that honestly sought god in the churches ( as many of us did) and just had too much honesty and integrity to perpetuate the lie. I cared only about my own soul and my eternal heaven.....until Atheism opened up my eyes.

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


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cj wrote:Brian37 wrote:Are

cj wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

Are you channeling Christopher Hitchens through a Ouija Board, because it sure sounds like it.

 

Well, since I haven't read any of Hitchens' books - gasp, blasphemy! - no.  It's my own original thoughts.  Any resemblance to any other person's thoughts, living or dead, is purely coincidental.

 

Oh CJ, you have crushed my crush on you. HOW HOW HOW HOW can you have gone all this time never have read Hitchens, our lord and god? Whatever pining and value I had for you is gone. There is nothing left for me in this world now. I am going to start asking the NFL for permission to record their games, and I am going to turn myself into the authorities for ripping the tag off my mattress. And barbecuing kittens means nothing to me now.

ARE YOU HAPPY NOW, LOOK AT WHAT YOU HAVE REDUCED ME TO!

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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Antipatris wrote:holda2nd

Antipatris wrote:

holda2nd wrote:

satisfying answer

Would a lie satisfy you ? How about the simple honesty of "We don't know" ? 

You're the first person I find in this forum who chooses such answer. It's been my preferred answer too. Not only it's an honest answer, it's also the reality that we don't know. It places us in the middle position between theism and science. Theism needs to prove God, while science needs to prove the Big Bang theory. None of them have successfully proven their belief.

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Jeffrick

Jeffrick wrote:

                 Our answers may not satisfy you. Atheisim means only "No belief in a God"; THAT'S IT! it means nothing else. Has for origins of the universe I accept the Big Bang [so do meny religious people, in fact most of them.] Has for life after death; I expect to be cremated and have the ashes scattered over a strippers boobs.  [Anjalina Joli's boobs will be old and saggy by then so she is out.] I have never seen any evidence of a god or higher power therefore I am an atheist, do you have any evidence of a god, then show us; otherwise you are eather  an atheist or a theist with no evidence!

I have to state that I'm not looking for satisfying answer for me. I just want to point out why it's not satisfying for you.

If atheism means only "no belief in God", then I'm an atheist, except that I believe the existence of gods (notice the small 'g'.)

As for origin of the universe, the Big Bang remains a theory, and theory needs to be proven. So, scientists haven't proven the theory, pretty much the same condition as theists haven't proven God.

[And for the afterlife, I'm sure prior to the time you die you can find other younger celebrity's boobs to scattered your ashes over, perhaps Katy Perry's will do just fine.]

 

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Except the that theory has

Except that the big bang theory has been proven far more than god did it as an answer, Scientific theory hold more evidence than a mere guess as you are supposing it to be. It is not a guess, a scientific theory far exceeds a guess which in science is a hypothesis. Scientific theory: A scientific theory summarizes a hypothesis or group of hypotheses that have been supported with repeated testing. If enough evidence accumulates to support a hypothesis, it moves to the next step—known as a theory—in the scientific method and becomes accepted as a valid explanation of a phenomenon.


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holda2nd wrote: I have to

holda2nd wrote:

I have to state that I'm not looking for satisfying answer for me. I just want to point out why it's not satisfying for you.

If atheism means only "no belief in God", then I'm an atheist, except that I believe the existence of gods (notice the small 'g'.)

As for origin of the universe, the Big Bang remains a theory, and theory needs to be proven. So, scientists haven't proven the theory, pretty much the same condition as theists haven't proven God.

[And for the afterlife, I'm sure prior to the time you die you can find other younger celebrity's boobs to scattered your ashes over, perhaps Katy Perry's will do just fine.]

 

A scientific theory is not a guess. 

wiki wrote:

In modern science, the term "theory" refers to scientific theories, a well-confirmed type of explanation of nature, made in a way consistent with scientific method, and fulfilling the criteria required by modern science. Such theories are described in such a way that any scientist in the field is in a position to understand and either provide empirical support ("verify" ) or empirically contradict ("falsify" ) it. Scientific theories are the most reliable, rigorous, and comprehensive form of scientific knowledge,[2] in contrast to more common uses of the word "theory" that imply that something is unproven or speculative (which is better defined by the word 'hypothesis').[3] Scientific theories are also distinguished from hypotheses, which are individual empirically testable conjectures, and scientific laws, which are descriptive accounts of how nature will behave under certain conditions.[4]

 

 

A scientific theory can make accurate predictions.  It is supported by empirical evidence.  Gravity is a theory and a fact - just like evolution.

The big bang theory is a scientific theory with evidence to back it up and predictions derived from the theory. 

No theory can be proven, it can only be disproven.  This goes for gravity, evolution, the big bang, germ theory, any other scientific theory. 

 

Please do be more careful with your use of scientific terms.  If you are unfamiliar, may I recommend some sort of college course to correct your deficiency.  coursera.org is free and classes are put on by various accredited universities.  Any science course, hard or soft, physics or chemistry, psychology or sociology, will review scientific hypotheses and theories.

 

If you believe in gods (small 'g' ) I would think that would put you more on the deist, pagan, or some such side of theism.  Not agnostic.  Not atheist.  An atheist does not believe in any god/s/dess, small or large 'g', singular or plural, of any gender.

 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.


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cj wrote:No theory can be

cj wrote:

No theory can be proven, it can only be disproven.  This goes for gravity, evolution, the big bang, germ theory, any other scientific theory. 

 

 

Wow. Never thought of it that way before...

(ps)

Proved,  not proven. Disproved, not disproven. I make the same mistake all too often.

 


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holda2nd wrote:

First of all, I want to say that I'm not in the position to defend theism/theists. Just want to know whether atheists in this forum have got their questions (regarding live, the universe, or any other puzzling inquiries) answered by becoming atheist, or at least you have got a quite satisfying answer.

No, atheism does not invent questions and then push bullshit answers as does theism.

Also trying to get away with the implication that atheism is the opposite of believing in their god is something I can't let you get away with. It is the opposite of theism only. You, after claiming theism have to get from many gods down to the particular god you are claiming.

Were I to accept theism I could still run you around in circles till hell freezes over trying to get to your particular god of choice.

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


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holda2nd wrote:You're the

holda2nd wrote:

You're the first person I find in this forum who chooses such answer. It's been my preferred answer too. Not only it's an honest answer, it's also the reality that we don't know. It places us in the middle position between theism and science. Theism needs to prove God, while science needs to prove the Big Bang theory. None of them have successfully proven their belief.

In the absence of all evidence the logical default position is disbelief. Science can provide observable testable evidence to support itself, whereas religion can offer none.

If you believe in gods, then you are a theist. If you do not believe in gods, you are an Atheist.

If you have no beliefs at all and am not sure, that is the only possible middle position.

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


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holda2nd wrote:I have to

holda2nd wrote:

I have to state that I'm not looking for satisfying answer for me. I just want to point out why it's not satisfying for you.

 

Yet, Atheism is indeed a satisfying answer for me.

If your not really looking for a satisfying answer, what was the intent of your question ?

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


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digitalbeachbum wrote:

cj wrote:

No theory can be proven, it can only be disproven.  This goes for gravity, evolution, the big bang, germ theory, any other scientific theory. 

Wow. Never thought of it that way before...

(ps)

Proved,  not proven. Disproved, not disproven. I make the same mistake all too often.

A theory is just an explanation for facts. The more facts it explains the better or more complete the theory.

Newton's theory was that the same rules which governed motion of objects on earth also governed the motion of the planets in the heavens, as above so below. He demonstrated those facts were true.

It worked out to explain all the motions except for Mercury. Then Einstein's general relativity version explained Mercury and showed that for the other planets the results matched those of Newton far beyond the limits of observational error.

Conceptually Newton's real accomplishment was as above so below. Before that the heavens where entirely different and unrelated to how things worked on Earth. God's heavens were no longer different from this corrupt earth. It is a necessary step towards a fact based foundation for atheism.

It also leads to the explanation of why there are deviations on earth, air resistance, therefore there is no air where the planets are. And therefore the sun is not a burning fire as fires need air.

As a theory it brought up more questions than it answered.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


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digitalbeachbum wrote:cj

digitalbeachbum wrote:

cj wrote:

No theory can be proven, it can only be disproven.  This goes for gravity, evolution, the big bang, germ theory, any other scientific theory. 

 

 

Wow. Never thought of it that way before...

(ps)

Proved,  not proven. Disproved, not disproven. I make the same mistake all too often.

 

 

 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.


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A_Nony_Mouse wrote:A theory

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

A theory is just an explanation for facts. The more facts it explains the better or more complete the theory.

Newton's theory was that the same rules which governed motion of objects on earth also governed the motion of the planets in the heavens, as above so below. He demonstrated those facts were true.

It worked out to explain all the motions except for Mercury. Then Einstein's general relativity version explained Mercury and showed that for the other planets the results matched those of Newton far beyond the limits of observational error.

Conceptually Newton's real accomplishment was as above so below. Before that the heavens where entirely different and unrelated to how things worked on Earth. God's heavens were no longer different from this corrupt earth. It is a necessary step towards a fact based foundation for atheism.

It also leads to the explanation of why there are deviations on earth, air resistance, therefore there is no air where the planets are. And therefore the sun is not a burning fire as fires need air.

As a theory it brought up more questions than it answered.

 

http://www.allanstime.com/UnifiedFieldTheory/gravity.htm

 

There are facts and laws of gravity - such as the ones Newton discovered - and there are various theories of gravity.  Such as what is it comprised of and how it manages to apply force - are there waves, field lines, does it look like the old Disney TV show where there were grid lines of gravitic force in space?  What causes it?  Where does it get the energy?  Is it related to string theory?  And so on.  Many different theories to attempt to explain the phenomenon. 

 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.


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cj wrote:
http://www.allanstime.com/UnifiedFieldTheory/gravity.htm

There are facts and laws of gravity - such as the ones Newton discovered - and there are various theories of gravity.  Such as what is it comprised of and how it manages to apply force - are there waves, field lines, does it look like the old Disney TV show where there were grid lines of gravitic force in space?  What causes it?  Where does it get the energy?  Is it related to string theory?  And so on.  Many different theories to attempt to explain the phenomenon. 

That is what the Higgs Boson thing is all about.

As for calling it a law, that is just what things were called in the time his theory was given a descriptive title. There were also things like Hook's law in the next century. The naming conventions we use today did not arise until the late 19th century so that Einstein produced theories. A few decades earlier they would have been called laws.

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


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latincanuck wrote:Except

latincanuck wrote:

Except that the big bang theory has been proven far more than god did it as an answer, Scientific theory hold more evidence than a mere guess as you are supposing it to be. It is not a guess, a scientific theory far exceeds a guess which in science is a hypothesis. Scientific theory: A scientific theory summarizes a hypothesis or group of hypotheses that have been supported with repeated testing. If enough evidence accumulates to support a hypothesis, it moves to the next step—known as a theory—in the scientific method and becomes accepted as a valid explanation of a phenomenon.

For those who stand on the science side regarding the origin of universe, consider this, from wikipedia:

"There is little evidence regarding the absolute earliest instant of the expansion. Thus, the Big Bang theory cannot and does not provide any explanation for such an initial condition; rather, it describes and explains the general evolution of the universe going forward from that point on."

I think it's kinda checkmate for you. See if any of you can come up with any more defense.

One thing I want to make it clear, especially to you latincanuck. I don't believe in any creator god (or God in theism.)

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holda2nd wrote: As for

holda2nd wrote:

 

As for origin of the universe, the Big Bang remains a theory, and theory needs to be proven. So, scientists haven't proven the theory, pretty much the same condition as theists haven't proven God.

pretty much everything we take for granted in the universe is theory.  there are very few laws in science.

scientists don't like to use the word fact because that is a word for historians.

you do know the difference between theory and hypothesis, right?  because in normal, everyday parlance, when most people use the word "theory" (e.g., "i have a theory about that" ), they actually mean "hypothesis."

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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holda2nd wrote: You're the

holda2nd wrote:

 

You're the first person I find in this forum who chooses such answer.

then you haven't done your research.  i would say the majority of contributors to this forum take that position, including myself.  most of us also follow it up with "not interested."

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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holda2nd wrote: You're the

(triple post)


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holda2nd wrote: You're the

(triple post)


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cj wrote:Please do be more

cj wrote:

Please do be more careful with your use of scientific terms.  If you are unfamiliar, may I recommend some sort of college course to correct your deficiency.  coursera.org is free and classes are put on by various accredited universities.  Any science course, hard or soft, physics or chemistry, psychology or sociology, will review scientific hypotheses and theories.

 

If you believe in gods (small 'g' ) I would think that would put you more on the deist, pagan, or some such side of theism.  Not agnostic.  Not atheist.  An atheist does not believe in any god/s/dess, small or large 'g', singular or plural, of any gender.

Whatever adjective is placed in front of the word "theory", it remains theory, it won't be called fact. Also investigate first, before you judge others (deficiency, or etc). It appears that you who should learn more. Look what wikipedia says about the Big Bang theory. If you want to argue, argue whoever the person/people who wrote about it there. I'm just trying to point out that you have been mistaken.

I do believe in the existence of supernatural beings you atheists don't, ranging from gods, devils/demons, to ghosts, except creator god. If you don't believe the existence of supernatural beings, you deny a fact. Just because you cannot see them you think they don't exist, what an ignorant you are. I say all these because I have a direct experience on this stuff. If you want to argue with me on this matter, you're one step behind, there's no point. I'd suggest you go around the world to open your perspective. Life is too short to be skeptic. Visit some locations in Asia for example. If you're lucky enough, ypu can find few people who can see unseen beings and they may help you to see the way they see. That way you can get your own direct experience. This is because I don't need you to trust what I say. You should prove it to yourself.

 

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