The link didn't work for me can you double check.  Eather way it is all for the greater glory of the NRA, a chicken in every pot and 2 machine guns & recoiless rifle at every fire station.

A man with a criminal history shot and killed two West Webster, N.Y. firefighters and seriously injured two others as they responded to a fire at his home., police say.

William Spangler, 62, apparently started a 5:35 a.m. fire at his home on Lake Road  and then waited with an armament of weapons for first responders to arrive, Webster N.Y. Police Chief Gerald Pickering said at an afternoon news conference.

“He was shooting from high ground or a berm," Pickering said. "He was barricaded with weapons to shoot first responders."

Spangler shot and killed himself at the scene, Pickering said.

Spangler was convicted in 1981 in the death of his grandmother a year earlier. He served time in prison and was released in 1998, Pickering said.

Local police had not noted any criminal activity in his recent past, Pickering said.

Pickering said they are looking into the apparent disappearance of Pickering's sister who is unaccounted for at this time.

Police and fire officials are continuing to gather evidence and will inspect the seven homes that were destroyed in the fire that spread to nearby houses in the small lakeside town located 10 miles east of Rochester.

The victims in the shooting are Mike Chiapperini, also a lieutenant and public information officer with the local police department, and Tomasz Kaczowka, Pickering said.

"These are volunteers who get up in the middle of the night to fight fires. They don't expect to be shot and killed," a tearful Pickering said at the press conference.

Chiapperini was described by Pickering as a lifelong firefighter who started with the department's explorer program and had about 20 years of experience. Kaczowka was a younger firefighter who was on the force for about two years and was also a 911 dispatcher, he said.

West Webster firefighters Joseph Hofsetter and Theodore Scardino were seriously injured and are at Strong Memorial Hospital with gunshot wounds, a hospital spokeswoman said.  Scardino  has  injuries to his chest and lungs. Hofsetter was injured in the pelvis, the spokeswoman said at a media briefing. Both are in guarded condition, she said.

An off-duty police officer from nearby Greece, N.Y., John Ritter was also injured by shrapnel during the shooting, Pickering said.

Pickering said that one of the firefighters who survived made his way across a bridge to safety. The other three did not make it across, Pickering said. Police arrived and rescued the other three firefighters, but two were fatally shot, Pickering said.

The morning scene was described as chaotic as police and firefighters dealt with an immense blaze as well as gunshots,  local news station WHAM-TV  reports.

“I’m not aware of anything like this happening in Webster, obviously not a firefighter being fired upon,” Webster Fire Marshal Rob Boutillier told the Democrat and Chronicle.  Pickering described Webster as resort lakeside community that is quiet and usually peaceful.

 

 

 

               The link didn't work for me can you double check.  Eather way it is all for the greater glory of the NRA, a chicken in every pot and 2 machine guns & recoiless rifle at every fire station.

 

 

 This story is sad, however the title of this thread just plays into the gun advocates.  They like to say guns don't kill people, people kill people.  This thread titled "murdered by gun" probably should say "murdered by gunman."  The gunman would not have been as likely to kill these first responders had he only been using a knife.  

 

I don't give a fuck. If gun owners were so responsible as a whole, then the criminals wouldn't be getting a hold of guns(via theft or lying on an application). The "responsible" gun CLIMATE is not locking them up enough safely, the shops and shows are NOT keeping them out of the hands of criminals.

"Blame the criminals, not the law abiding citizens" is the excuse.

ENOUGH!

Those guns ALWAYS start out being legally made or legally owned and criminals and sickos get them. If the "responsible" gun owners were doing enough we would NOT have the amount of gun death we do.

 

digitalbeachbum wrote:

I agree with Brian, "Fuck the NRA", which is basically the Mafia and the Unions rolled together in to one giant cluster fuck of a corrupt burrito.

But...

This guy was a career criminal. Current reports are that he killed his mother and that his sister is missing?

This guy was fucked in the head.

All the more reason to test people, like when you go to get your drivers license or any other license (hunting, business, etc).

People need to be tested. Sick people need to be institutionalized.

 

 If gun manufactures and gun owners were so responsible we would not have the gun death epidemic we do.

So the NRA has a choice. They want to bitch about rights, but don't want to do a fucking thing to reduce gun death. If the NRA won't work with society then it needs to be left behind. WHAT CANNOT HAPPEN is to maintain the status quo.

 

 

Education of gun owners. I place blame of the entire Sandy Hook tragedy on the parents of the attacker. If people like her had an awareness of her son's sickness and the guns were kept away from him (as in locked up, secured), I believe this would have been avoided.

He obviously had access to the guns even though he had issues. Was she oblivious to what was happening in Colorado and other parts of the country were mentally sick people went on shooting rampages? Did she not seek medical assistance? From what I understand she was getting a fist full of dollars from her rich ex-husband. WTF?

The problem will continue to exist until society realizes the problem is the actual guns but the people who have access to them. It isn't just the criminals either. You have people trading stolen guns. Dealers finding loopholes in the laws. Gun manufactures who look at the bottom dollar rather than the poison they are selling.

 

 

As a parent of children with disabilities, I can tell you that getting help for your child is difficult - to put it mildly.  Even a child diagnosed with recognized non-threatening physical problems is hard to find help for.  If you have a child with a mental illness, the specialists to treat same are few and far between.  In part, because it is hard to get the right diagnoses. 

I had a friend whose son became mentally ill as a teen.  He was fine until about age 14.  Then he wasn't fine.  He had many different diagnoses and it was next to impossible to treat him.  A teenage boy has options - he is big, he is strong, and he doesn't have to do what mom and dad say anymore.  "Fuck you!" and out the door.  My friend did everything she could - she had a good job and good health insurance.  She cared for and loved him, and worked to do the best she could for him.  But she could not hold him down and force him to take his medication. 

I remember when mental institutions were largely disbanded.  I know about the abuses that occurred.  I also have seen the results of not having a place where you can put someone who is a danger to themself or society - except jail.  This is no answer, either.

 

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Back in 1992 maybe 1993 there was a one year exercise in collecting detailed murder info for the US. Some how as part of it I was able to find the statistics for murders and the weapons going back to the 1920s or so. I found the following.

Long term the annual number of murders was more or less a constant fraction of the population, that is, the number per million was not changing. Over the same period the murder weapon of choice changed from the majority being by blunt object (club, baseball bat, chair) to gun.

The popularity of the gun over clubs did not increase the number of murders they only became more common as the method of murder. Any change in the total number of murders was explained by the increased population of the US. So yes the number of murders did double from 1945 to 1990 but so did the population.

It implies banning guns of all types, making them all disappear tomorrow, would only cause people to revert to clubs with no change in the murder rate.

As the popular Al Franken quote goes, everyone is entitled to their own opinion but not to their own facts.

But it would prevent things like Columbine and Sandy Hook right? Darth Vader used a sword to kill off the young Jedis in training.

 

this story might reference a study, but unless you can produce the study (or at least give us specifics like title, publication info, etc.), i'm afraid it's still anecdotal.