light of truth

JesusLovesYou
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light of truth

My heart pains for each and every one of you.  You think that love is nothing more than a chemical reaction in the brain, rather than the brain's chemical reaction is a response to what we call love.  You harden your hearts, and truely don't understand faith, nor belief.  If you would only truely open your hearts up to our Savior Jesus He will open Himself up to you.  The hatred in this world has blinded you from what is right and true.  Goodbye friends, I hope you see the light of truth someday.

 

GOD'S NOT DEAD! HE'S SURELY ALIVE! HE'S LIVING ON THE INSIDE, ROARING LIKE A LION!

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


Professor
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""Knowing the God of the Universe"

To answer your question, it means that the many martyrs for Jesus Christ and His testimony in the Bible did not die in vain. They wait in the glory of heaven for the end of all things earthly. My sources say that Nietzsche ended up in a lunatic asylum and wanted to be called "the Crucified One." But in a sense, Nietzsche was right. The Bible teaches that the reprobate, the non-elect, are spiritually dead, unless God makes them spiritually alive. Jesus did miracles, but the Jewish rulers did not believe him. Can you prove something to a dead man?


Atheistextremist
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Hi professor

 

Professor wrote:
Everyone deserves death. We are all sinners. God is Holy and cannot tolerate sin.

You're a fundamentalist, what fun. 

Could you define god, define sin and define holy for me, please? Use properties in your definitions that are humanly comprehensible, not imaginary qualities that cannot adequately be described or understood. For instance, what is holy from the human perspective? Given we cannot know god, could you direct us to some other holy thing on Earth that would allow us to understand such a quality? 

Further, how can you argue you know the qualities of a being for whom objective proofs or comprehensions are impossible? You make objective truth claims (god cannot tolerate behaviour that it may be argued from a particular perspective is sinful). Where is your objective proof god cannot tolerate 'sin' and that his hate of 'sin' can only be assauged by murder and torture? Have you seen the murder and torture yourself?

I do hope your proof is not just the bald assertions, ad hominem fallacies and appeals to force contained in the bible? Is it? Is that what your 'proof' is? Is assertion and threat all that's required to leverage you into a position of accepting the legitimacy of the global murder and eternal torture of all ever-humanity - some 100 billion people? How morally inconsistent that would be. 

Finally, if you have the time, could you outline some key sins for us? Biggies, you know. Is fornication a sin? Homosexuality? Abortion? Masturbation? What are the primary evils god hates so bitterly that he eschews perfect love, which must be all forgiving, for imperfect justice, which deploys blanket punishment for all possible human error, the pinnacle of which his 'revelations' insist is not harming others but healthy skepticism towards assertions peddled by threats. 

 

 

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


Atheistextremist
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Chuckle

 

Professor wrote:

They wait in the glory of heaven for the end of all things earthly. 

 

Can you prove this, or do you just believe it? What is 'the glory of heaven' in your imagination, professor? Do people walk around 2-legged on golden footpaths thanks to gravity, or have all earthly things ended? 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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His little Joke?

Professor wrote:

 My sources say that Nietzsche ended up in a lunatic asylum and wanted to be called "the Crucified One."

He did end up in an asylum and he did sign some of his later letters as 'The Crucified One' or 'Dionysus'.

However, one has to take this in the context of his hyperbolic style and his previous writings.

In Ecce Homo, he ends the summary of his works with a final chapter, which in its entirety says:

"Have you understood me? Dionysus versus Christ".

Hint: He was on the side of Dionysus.

 

Now, let's look at some of those letters:

Both Jan 4, 1889



To Cosima Wagner

Ariadne, I love you

– Dionysus


To Umberto I, King of Italy

To my beloved son Umberto:

My peace be with you! Tuesday I shall be in Rome. I should like to see you, along with His Holiness the Pope.

- The Crucified One
 

 

Now, I'll accept that he was a bit bonkers by then, but these seem consistent to me.

And of course, Ecce Homo means 'Behold the Man', an ironic reference to Pontius Pilate/Christ/Himself.


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Professor wrote: Everyone

Professor wrote:
Everyone deserves death. We are all sinners. God is Holy and cannot tolerate sin.

Except, of course, when he commits it or commands others to do so.

Why would he not tolerate his creation? He needs sin way more than anyone else.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


latincanuck
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Professor wrote: Everyone

Professor wrote:
Everyone deserves death. We are all sinners. God is Holy and cannot tolerate sin.

hmmm no we die because we are living beings with a finite life span. God is holy in what sense? Please define God, and holy as well as sin....as my understanding of sin is a transgression against god, as no god exists to date, then no sin either.


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Professor wrote:To answer

Professor wrote:

To answer your question, it means that the many martyrs for Jesus Christ and His testimony in the Bible did not die in vain. They wait in the glory of heaven for the end of all things earthly. My sources say that Nietzsche ended up in a lunatic asylum and wanted to be called "the Crucified One." But in a sense, Nietzsche was right. The Bible teaches that the reprobate, the non-elect, are spiritually dead, unless God makes them spiritually alive. Jesus did miracles, but the Jewish rulers did not believe him. Can you prove something to a dead man?

The "martyrs for Christ" don't compare to the people who were killed to spread the religion.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


A_Nony_Mouse
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.

Professor wrote:
Knowing the God of the universe as He reveals Himself in the Bible and in Jesus Christ is worth dying for. What do you think is worth dying for?

As death is an inevitability the idea of "worth dying for," although poetic, is retarded.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


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.

Professor wrote:
Everyone deserves death. We are all sinners. God is Holy and cannot tolerate sin.

Which idiot told you that and why did you believe him?

 

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


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.

Professor wrote:
WHAT IS A HARDCORE CHRISTIAN?

A retard like you.

 


A_Nony_Mouse
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.

Professor wrote:

To answer your question, it means that the many martyrs for Jesus Christ and His testimony in the Bible did not die in vain. They wait in the glory of heaven for the end of all things earthly.

As you have no physical evidence supporting that gibberish why are you so determined to prove to all the readers that you are an idiot?

Apologies to real idiots of course.

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


cj
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nah, nah, nah

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Professor wrote:
WHAT IS A HARDCORE CHRISTIAN?

A retard like you.

 

 

Full on frontal nudity, huge throbbing dicks, Gangman Style!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Couldn't resist.

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.


JesusLovesYou
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THIS WEBSITE IS A HATE CRIME

THIS WEBSITE IS A HATE CRIME CENTER FOR CYBER BULLYING.  BE GONE WITH YOU ALL!


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Hi JesusLovesYou, the Lord keep you, hope you're fine :)

 Hi JesusLovesYou

  Two things  One this is the Internet perhaps you've heard of it. Two This is a Atheist website. Nobody went inviting you to their local church I recall (you may not recall). Didnt more than one person on a Atheist site ask you to be gone ? You're an embarrassment to christianity in no small way. If you're so exercised. Why not defend Genesis or the Global Deluge. Instead of asking all the athesists to be gone ? Note, That would require more than between 10 and 20 words.

  Just for you for pissing and moaning about the best website on the net EVER :

Amazing old world order .. all made anew(φαινόμενoν ) phenomenon with new evidence for a Global Deluge 
   These are the things that only adds to the reasons the board holds a treasured place in my heart and where else can you find these  things  

                   __________________________________

  This was written to Lee but could be easily applied to yourself there.

    Before I begin or  forget, I should have thanked X for correcting me where I was wrong about a detail in Nordic myth, I still havent read the Eddas in a long while. If you're ever about thanks for keeping me honest. I might have almost done that purposefully in a way because of the obvious   confusion about Ragnorrock it undoubtedly generates (video is down, he'll know).  

Lee's quote

Lee2216 wrote:

cj wrote:
How do you know the bible is correct?  Do you base your belief on evidence?  What evidence?

How would I be able to verify your beliefs?  By reading the bible?  Are there any other sources that corroborate what the bible says?  Why is your interpretation more truthful than any other interpretation?

I'm going to keep giving you the same verses over an over. See Romans 1 Here is additional info that you may want to look at.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2011/03/22/bible-is-true

  If someone like Lee is engaging in speculations ? Is Aig the best source for information? >

  I might have answered my own question, today from  Nov 11th --

 


  You directly quoted from a Aig site. Yes? In a while perhaps you will learn if you dont provide a basis for your 'beliefs', you will be deeply penalized on this board. Data, facts, findings are looked at, more subjective approaches of your (own) personal conclusions or beliefs, not so much,. In the other thread you were deeply offended w/ the term liar. Well, If you are honest as you seem to think; an honest inquiry can be made, right ? If it is true then you wont have any problems looking into matters yourself without the additional assistance of AiG or ICR, correct ? Why say that? As for Gish and Ham, there is nothing quite like going in with a desired conclusion and trying to make the evidence fit, eh ? If you show true courage and do not shrink back (Heb. 10:38-9), why'd you desire anyone who allows his beliefs cloud his judgment of the facts?!? If you are a purest like Mr. K. Ham, it isnt 6,000 years but six solar days by his teaching. Remember, It's a very human thing to find what youre looking for, if you look hard enough or if that doesn't work attack the competing theor(-ies). In the Back-to-Genesis culture, They are busily developing narratives which strike them as best fitting or explaining the problem, where the authority of the Genesis account is simply assumed. People want more than that Lee. Does sound like a safe place to retreat to for the christian, I must say.

 From Nov 11

:



   Then I only just find out moments ago about this. I cannot believe it myself, there are even worse web-sources.  Why is it when you think something can't get  any worse, (murphey's law) it does ? I havent even gotten a good look at the site yet and look at what they provide . . .

http://genesisveracityfoundation.com/global-repopulation

 Unwarranted Myth making (now made anew)

 

http://genesisveracityfoundation.com/global-repopulation

 




 If I was addressing the site:

Quote:
As the ice age snow packs were building in the aftermath of Noah’s Flood and after the Tower of Babel confusion of the languages (probably from hebrew), about five hundred miles southeast from the landing place of Noah’s Ark in eastern Turkey, the clans listed in Genesis 10.

    No!  Hebrew came later. Btw, Is that EnKi or the Lord's confusing of the languages (honest question)? Apparently this guy is 'Doctor Who ?' when it comes to timelines. I'm sorry when was the frozen snow packs to come in ? What relation to the deluge myth is that again ? How does this prove it happened?  I'm assuming you arent referring to what some have dubbed Europe's mini-Ice-Age, placing the time off even further. Oceanographic sea levels, at the height of the ice age, around  20,000 years ago was more than 400 feet (122 meters) lower than it is today (factoid).

 

 

Quote:
[The clan] began to spread out across the globe, many by sea, for instance offspring of Canaan  .. son Sidon being among them, known to many as the sea god Posidon, who with his son Atlas. Sailed west to the Sierra Morena mountains of southern Spain, the richest mining district in the ancient world, the lifeblood for the great wealth of the atlantean empire.

  No! Ionian League of Greek settlements, it's all Greek to him. And did somebody say "altantean" (I guess you arent talking about the state of Georgia). Oh, Your obviously thinking of Humphrey Bogart  in a old black and white film on Turner Classic Movies, right? Or should people be making pilgramages to the base of Mt. Olympus (in Greece) ? Who knows maybe even 'the Little Mermaid'?

 

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

  

Quote:
The remnant of that empire was later known at the time of the book of Judges circa 1300 b.c. as Tarshish, with the legendary “Ships of Tarshish,” he who had been a son of Javan, the greek Iawan having been namesake of the Ionians, Javan who was a son of Japheth, the “mythological” god Jupiter.

 No!  Everyone knows the Greek pantheon was later adopted by the Romans (remember) ? Oh, That's right youre making this up, how silly of me.  The origins for the god's name were the Greeks. Zeus, He was the head of the pantheon (thanks in no small way to the 'hundred handers') and a Storm deity. You may have heard of him. Always know your storm deities (a must)!! Shift in name change between ea. would have been around 31- B.C. when the roman troops conquered the last territories of the Kingdom of Macedonia. Before Roman was roman you had the  Etruscans and their deities.  http://www.history.com/topics/hellenistic-greece/videos#zeus-and-the-great-flood

 


Geography DURING Ice Age

Quote:
And because Atlantis was a coastal maritime empire, the city of Atlantis just one of its port cities, the ruins submerged off Bimini island on the Bahama Banks which have baffled scientists now come into historical focus; bronze age ruins consumed by the sea when the ice age ended, along with the rest of the atlantean empire and the other coastal ice age cities.

 No! That's the sleeping mystic "Edgar Casey" your thinking of. Search for "Lost" Atlantis Centers on Strait of Gibraltar. Most people know the greek manuscript had an error and  according to Plato it would be located no further than "or within the Strait of Gibraltar" not in the Atlantic at all  (Sorry Edgar!)

 

  

Quote:
Maya, namesake of the Mayans, was a daughter of Atlas, and mexican legend says their ancient homeland was Atlan, across the eastern ocean, so the connection to the story by Plato is complete, with the Andes mountains of South America the namesake of king Antaeus from the days of Atlantis,  and the Caribbean after the eastern mediterranean Carians, as was Carioca, later known as Rio de Janeiro, proving certainly global navigation in the 2000 b.c. timeframe.

  No! And what? 'Ponce de León' stuck a feather in his hat  and called it macaroni?!? Where 's he getting this from ?. Consult genetic study map to refresh your memory on actual migratory patterns. Japet was the father of Altas. Atlas was never real (a Titan and not a human-being)

 

 

Quote:
. .just coincidence? And Japheth was Djapatisch, or Tuisch, namesake of Deutsch, the germans (war men); Japheth the Seskef of the nordics, and Prajapeti to the hindu indians . . the language group of Japheth, so that’s just coincidence the darwinists and old earth creationists would tell you. Mount Nimrud of upper Mesopotamia bears the name of Nimrod, yet there was no confusion of languages at the Tower of Babel? So why do many ancient legends from seemingly disparate people groups, such as the ancient Toltecs (probably much of canaanite descent) of archaic Mexico, speak of the confusion of the languages in old times, just coincidence?

  No! That's for me to know and this guy to find out. Why dont you ask TWD39 (e.g. Pa)? You obviously are not familiar with the Sumerians nor the words from their religion. Worth the time invested. Mentioned in the era of seven-headed hounds  and  six-headed Lambs of the mythic. Then there's, according to tradition, the present-day Parsis descend from a group of Zoroastrians of Iran who immigrated to India. (Consult genetic migration map). By the way, The first Americans walked to the New World across a land bridge that joined Asia and North America between 70,000 and 11,000 years ago. Where did this guy say Canaan  was located again. I'm actually starting to get a head-ache.                      Fun though.

  I'll spare everyone the rest.

 

  NationalGeographicSociety (Consult Map,  Map Below) -- 



 

  p.s. -- Ian had some really great questions about the Flood for Twd39, that 'Pa' never got around to (hint, hint) Smiling

 


cj
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JesusLovesYou wrote:THIS

JesusLovesYou wrote:

THIS WEBSITE IS A HATE CRIME CENTER FOR CYBER BULLYING.  BE GONE WITH YOU ALL!

 

I have two younger siblings.  We are all old farts now, but they are still my little brother and sister.  I learned when I was very young to deal with teasing.  Responding to their teasing (aka "bullying" ) only made it worse.  The correct response is to rise above it, and demonstrate how little their teasing had an effect on me.

Try it.

To stop the teasing on this forum, read what is posted carefully and respond thoughtfully.  We appreciate and respect people who use their brain.  People who stomp their feet and scream usually have their chain pulled to see if they will go higher.

I apologize for my post on hard core - but you know, it was really, really hard to resist and I have a very bawdy sense of humor.

 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.


Anonymouse
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cj wrote: I apologize for

cj wrote:


 

I apologize for my post on hard core - but you know, it was really, really hard to resist and I have a very bawdy sense of humor.

 

 

JLY got his butt handed to him in all the debate threads he started, so he had a few tantrums and started taking offense left, right and center. It's a lot easier than talking to people.

Anyway, no reason to apologize to a guy who's reaping what he so enthusiastically sowed. And please don't ever start resisting your sense of humor.

 

(as for A-Nony, I don't think he was teasing. He's just had enough of passive-aggressive christians. )

 


cj
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Anonymouse wrote:cj

Anonymouse wrote:

cj wrote:


 

I apologize for my post on hard core - but you know, it was really, really hard to resist and I have a very bawdy sense of humor.

 

 

JLY got his butt handed to him in all the debate threads he started, so he had a few tantrums and started taking offense left, right and center. It's a lot easier than talking to people.

Anyway, no reason to apologize to a guy who's reaping what he so enthusiastically sowed. And please don't ever start resisting your sense of humor.

 

(as for A-Nony, I don't think he was teasing. He's just had enough of passive-aggressive christians. )

 

 

Resisting my sense of humor is not going to happen, I'll just keep apologizing to those who take offense.  And then when opportunity occurs, I'll offend them again.  They either have to develop a rhino hide, or avoid me.

 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.


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JesusLovesYou wrote:THIS

JesusLovesYou wrote:

THIS WEBSITE IS A HATE CRIME CENTER FOR CYBER BULLYING.  BE GONE WITH YOU ALL!

To translate - "Help me Jesus! the atheists are fighting back instead of just letting me attack them!"

Why are you so frightened?

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


Beyond Saving
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JesusLovesYou wrote:THIS

JesusLovesYou wrote:

THIS WEBSITE IS A HATE CRIME CENTER FOR CYBER BULLYING.  BE GONE WITH YOU ALL!

 

You have told all of us that your omnipotent friend is going to torture us for eternity, twice now you have suggested that our site be eliminated and you accuse us of being the bullies? Grow up or go away, no one is going to hold you here, unlike your imaginary friend will apparently do to us. If you are looking for a bully I suggest you read your bable. 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


Atheistextremist
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Only

JesusLovesYou wrote:

THIS WEBSITE IS A HATE CRIME CENTER FOR CYBER BULLYING.  BE GONE WITH YOU ALL!

 

one person in this thread believes the others deserve to die for not agreeing with them, you hate-filled cyber bully.

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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Atheistextremist

Atheistextremist wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

THIS WEBSITE IS A HATE CRIME CENTER FOR CYBER BULLYING.  BE GONE WITH YOU ALL!

 

one person in this thread believes the others deserve to die for not agreeing with them, you hate-filled cyber bully.

How long do you think it'll take for him to become the Christian "David Mabus" on us?

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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JesusLovesYou wrote:jcgadfly

JesusLovesYou wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

Did JLY admit something he shouldn't have about what he worships?

1 Peter 5:8

"Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour."

 

Nope, wrong again as always JC.

Hosea 5:4 For I [will be] unto Ephraim as a lion, and as a young lion to the house of Judah: I, [even] I, will tear and go away; I will take away, and none shall rescue [him].

Proverbs 28:1 The wicked flee when no man pursueth: but the righteous are bold as a lion.

Revelation 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

You are not incorrect about the verse you chose, but you still have a problem with context, this time the context i was using.  The Bible uses the description of lion in a couple different contexts.  The context of lion in reference to Christ is that the lion is the king among earth dwelling animals, like Mufasa (yes i thought someone like you would understand a Lion King reference, i just barney styles your face). 

The context you are referring to is how a lion is a powerfully deadly hunter, much like the devil.

Both different contexts using the lion as a descriptive form, neither one of them wrong, nor contradictory.  The authors are using the different qualities of the lion to bring the poing across. 

 

 

 

 

Will you PLEASE get it through your thick skull that quoting a book of myth and tradition DOES NOT impress us. Muslims quote the Koran and that does not impress you. CIRCULAR REASONING is a big steamy pile of poney loaf. It doesn't work when others do it and it wont wash with us when you do it either.

Otherwise if I qoute a Harry Potter book, just because I do that means magic boys and magic brooms exist.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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Hey cj, I have absolutely

Hey cj,

I have absolutely no problem with board members injecting a little light-heartedness into the odd thread, as long as it fulfils one or more of the following criteria:

1) The member has previously proven themselves a productive contributor to the boards

2) It is a response to another member who has shown they are not interested in debate and must regress to appeals/throwing their toys out of the pram

3) it's funny.

I'd say you're safe from my ire on this one. Eye-wink

 

EDIT: thought you might prefer breaks between lines.


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Professor wrote: Everyone

Professor wrote:
Everyone deserves death. We are all sinners. God is Holy and cannot tolerate sin.

Thank you for your selfish narccisistic blather. Please explain to all of us here why a 4 or 5 year old kid would deserve childhood cancer, or to be rapped and murdered, or to die as a result of war or famine.

If a baby or a kid deserves death that makes your god a fucking prick.

 

No one deserves death. Death is merely a cycle of life. Just like a tree dies or fish dies or your pet dies. There is no magic to life. Bad things happen, not because we want them to happen, but because bad happens.

 

There is no cosmic Super hero or cosmic super villian pulling our strings or battling over the neurons in our brains.

 

What causes bad to happen, such as crime and war and desease are understood, not by ancient superstition, but study. When we study reality as it is, we can solve the problems of the things that cause us harm.

 

Making up bearded men and men with pitchforks is as useless to explain life as Santa and coal in your stocking.

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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Brian, this argument is

Brian, this argument is easily refuted if one believes in an afterlife of bliss. Short bit of pain, eternity of angels and harps. Lovely.

 


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GodsUseForAMosquito

GodsUseForAMosquito wrote:

Brian, this argument is easily refuted if one believes in an afterlife of bliss. Short bit of pain, eternity of angels and harps. Lovely.

 

Yes, but it doesn't explain why Christians don't support killing children and are generally distressed when people die. If you truly believe in an afterlife that is so blissful and so much better than life you should support the sacrifice of people who murder believers. After all, they are accepting eternal damnation to preserve eternal bliss for the believer before the believer has a chance to be corrupted by us atheists. 

One of my favorite little chestnuts is to ask a believer if they saw a small child about to get hit by a bus if they would risk their lives and push the child out of the way. Without fail they say "of course". Why are you risking the child's eternal bliss in heaven? "huh?" Well the child is innocent and is going to go to heaven right? "yeah". We all know that over the rest of the child's life there is a chance he or she will reject god and thus be condemned to burning in hell for eternity, whereas if the child dies today they are guaranteed a life of eternal bliss in heaven. 

It seems to me that anyone holding Christian beliefs ought to rejoice every time someone who is saved dies and even pray for death of themselves and their loved ones. After all humans are fallible and it would be extremely unfortunate for someone to die at a point in their life where their acceptance of Jesus as their savior falters and would have eternal consequences. It would be much better for people to die as early as possible during a time they accept Jesus. 

And instead of decrying abortion they should be praising people who condemn themselves to hell in order to send all of those souls to heaven before they are corrupted. How much more selfless and noble can you be than to condemn yourself to eternal torture in order to assure someone else lives in eternal bliss? 

Of course, Christians rarely consider the logical actions one should take if their beliefs were true and I suspect that most people deep down do not actually believe in heaven or at least of significant doubts of its existence. 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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 Come on now Beyond, we

 Come on now Beyond, we both know the answer to this.. really, it's so simple it's obvious.. even a child about to be hit by a bus could tell you..

 

...

 

God moves in mysterious ways.


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Perhaps we should flip him the bird

 

jcgadfly wrote:

Atheistextremist wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

THIS WEBSITE IS A HATE CRIME CENTER FOR CYBER BULLYING.  BE GONE WITH YOU ALL!

 

one person in this thread believes the others deserve to die for not agreeing with them, you hate-filled cyber bully.

How long do you think it'll take for him to become the Christian "David Mabus" on us?

 

 

To encourage his Mabus-itis...

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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GodsUseForAMosquito

GodsUseForAMosquito wrote:

 Come on now Beyond, we both know the answer to this.. really, it's so simple it's obvious.. even a child about to be hit by a bus could tell you..

 

...

 

God moves in mysterious ways.

Well tell the asshole to stop moving around on me and just pick a spot, I can't keep track of all the movement. 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Ragnarok – A Ripping Yarn

danatemporary wrote:

Before I begin or  forget, I should have thanked X for correcting me where I was wrong about a detail in Nordic myth, I still havent read the Eddas in a long while. If you're ever about thanks for keeping me honest. I might have almost done that purposefully in a way because of the obvious   confusion about Ragnorrock it undoubtedly generates (video is down, he'll know). 

Since I've now read that bit of The Eddas, I may as well post a rough precis in case anyone is interested.

References to Ragnarok (Doom of the gods) can be found in the older Poetic Edda and the later 13th century Prose Edda.

Ragnarokkr (Twilight of the gods) might sound more pleasing to the ear, but is apparently a mistranslation perpetuated by Wagner.

 

Here we go:

Odin and Frigg’s beloved son Baldr dies and goes to Hel as a result of the trickster god Loki. This is a portent of the end. Loki then transforms into a salmon, but is caught and brought to a cave. Loki’s son Vale is turned into a wolf and rips another of Loki’s sons Narfe to pieces. Narfe’s intestines are used to bind Loki to rocks under venom dripping from a serpent. He lies there till Ragnarok.

Before Ragnarok there are severe winters and war and immorality reign. No one spares his mother or father in that manslaughter and adultery.

Then Ragnarok. The sun and moon are devoured by wolves, mountains collapse and so on, Fenrir the wolf escapes and the seas rush over the land. The ship made of dead men’s fingernails and toenails is loosed, so make sure your nails are well pared. Loki escapes.

The gods are woken and intervene. Odin is swallowed by Fenrir and dies, Thor dies by the venom of the Midgard serpent, Tyr and the dog Garm kill each other, Vidar kills Fenrir using the sensible shoe made from the offcuts of human shoemaking, Loki and Heimdal kill each other and Surt burns the world.

But, bear with me, for Armageddon close to the end now. The earth rises from the sea and all is well. Lif and Lifthraser had been hiding and now get down and get it on, regenerating the human population.

Translations of The Eddas can be found here:

http://gamall-steinn.org/text/proseedda.pdf
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Poetic_Edda/V%C3%B6lusp%C3%A1



 


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x wrote:Since I've now read

x wrote:

Since I've now read that bit of The Eddas, I may as well post a rough precis in case anyone is interested.

References to Ragnarok (Doom of the gods) can be found in the older Poetic Edda and the later 13th century Prose Edda.

Ragnarokkr (Twilight of the gods) might sound more pleasing to the ear, but is apparently a mistranslation perpetuated by Wagner.

 

Here we go:

Odin and Frigg’s beloved son Baldr dies and goes to Hel as a result of the trickster god Loki. This is a portent of the end. Loki then transforms into a salmon, but is caught and brought to a cave. Loki’s son Vale is turned into a wolf and rips another of Loki’s sons Narfe to pieces. Narfe’s intestines are used to bind Loki to rocks under venom dripping from a serpent. He lies there till Ragnarok.

Before Ragnarok there are severe winters and war and immorality reign. No one spares his mother or father in that manslaughter and adultery.

Then Ragnarok. The sun and moon are devoured by wolves, mountains collapse and so on, Fenrir the wolf escapes and the seas rush over the land. The ship made of dead men’s fingernails and toenails is loosed, so make sure your nails are well pared. Loki escapes.

The gods are woken and intervene. Odin is swallowed by Fenrir and dies, Thor dies by the venom of the Midgard serpent, Tyr and the dog Garm kill each other, Vidar kills Fenrir using the sensible shoe made from the offcuts of human shoemaking, Loki and Heimdal kill each other and Surt burns the world.

But, bear with me, for Armageddon close to the end now. The earth rises from the sea and all is well. Lif and Lifthraser had been hiding and now get down and get it on, regenerating the human population.

Translations of The Eddas can be found here:

http://gamall-steinn.org/text/proseedda.pdf
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Poetic_Edda/V%C3%B6lusp%C3%A1

 

I like your version.  Reminds me of a version of the Greek myths I read years ago.  A modern translation.  There is a newer translation available, but I haven't read it.  The older one I did read was hysterically funny.  For example when Zeus and Hera make up a fight they have sex - which causes Mount Olympus to tremble and you can hear and feel their thumping and banging all over Greece.

It figures that is the passage I would remember. 

 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.


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Beyond Saving

Beyond Saving wrote:

GodsUseForAMosquito wrote:

Brian, this argument is easily refuted if one believes in an afterlife of bliss. Short bit of pain, eternity of angels and harps. Lovely.

 

Yes, but it doesn't explain why Christians don't support killing children and are generally distressed when people die. If you truly believe in an afterlife that is so blissful and so much better than life you should support the sacrifice of people who murder believers. After all, they are accepting eternal damnation to preserve eternal bliss for the believer before the believer has a chance to be corrupted by us atheists. 

One of my favorite little chestnuts is to ask a believer if they saw a small child about to get hit by a bus if they would risk their lives and push the child out of the way. Without fail they say "of course". Why are you risking the child's eternal bliss in heaven? "huh?" Well the child is innocent and is going to go to heaven right? "yeah". We all know that over the rest of the child's life there is a chance he or she will reject god and thus be condemned to burning in hell for eternity, whereas if the child dies today they are guaranteed a life of eternal bliss in heaven. 

It seems to me that anyone holding Christian beliefs ought to rejoice every time someone who is saved dies and even pray for death of themselves and their loved ones. After all humans are fallible and it would be extremely unfortunate for someone to die at a point in their life where their acceptance of Jesus as their savior falters and would have eternal consequences. It would be much better for people to die as early as possible during a time they accept Jesus. 

And instead of decrying abortion they should be praising people who condemn themselves to hell in order to send all of those souls to heaven before they are corrupted. How much more selfless and noble can you be than to condemn yourself to eternal torture in order to assure someone else lives in eternal bliss? 

Of course, Christians rarely consider the logical actions one should take if their beliefs were true and I suspect that most people deep down do not actually believe in heaven or at least of significant doubts of its existence. 

This is quite an irrational thought.

First, I have experienced deaths in the family who I know weren't believers.  There was true sadness and despair in that.  My wife, on the other hand, among other people I know have experienced the deaths of believers.  There is a different feeling.  Yes there is sadness that the individual is gone, but there is peace, joy, and comfort because you know where they are going.  So saying there is distress in death of a believer is not completely true.

As to your second point about children.  God said THOU SHALL NOT KILL (which btw the Hebrew word for kill, which is ratsach means premeditated or intended murder).  If a child is in the street about to get hit by a bus and you do NOTHING about it, that is MURDER.  As for sacrificing your salvation to give somebody theirs, show me proof.  That is NOT even scriptural or right.  Lastly, yes little children make it to heaven due to the lack of knowledge of sin, but you must ask yourself at what point in the child's life are they knowledgeable of their sin that they must repent. 
 

Abortion is murder as well.  You say all you listed are logical actions?  I beg to differ my friend.  YOU SIR, YOU ARE PROMOTING COLD BLOODED MURDER OF INNOCENT PEOPLE!

 

 

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


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JesusLovesYou wrote:YOU SIR,

JesusLovesYou wrote:

YOU SIR, YOU ARE PROMOTING COLD BLOODED MURDER OF INNOCENT PEOPLE!

You worship a being who allows eternal torture--you WORSHIP the ultimate evil. Why should anyone listen to what you say on matters of morality?

 


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blacklight915

blacklight915 wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

YOU SIR, YOU ARE PROMOTING COLD BLOODED MURDER OF INNOCENT PEOPLE!

You worship a being who allows eternal torture--you WORSHIP the ultimate evil. Why should anyone listen to what you say on matters of morality?

 

Excuse me?  If Adam Lanza had lived, should his horrifying deed have gone unpunished? 

Wasn't Columbine connected to Atheism?

James E. Holmes of the Denver Theatre incident is not a believer, should his deed go unpunished?

Seung-Hi Cho hated Christ, and he ended up shooting up Virginia Tech in 2007? if he didn't committ suicide where would he be?

Timothy McVeigh, in 2001, stated that science was his religion...hmmm....another one.....

James Huberty of the San Ysidro McDonald's Massacre was atheist as well

Fort Hood shooter Nidal Hasan was a muslim

Andrew Kehoe of the Bath School Disaster of 1927 stopped believing and God, and look what took place.

 

What does Jesus do?  Despite people's disobedience he throws us a rope to pull us out of our disaster.  It is not His desire that any perish.  If you choose to not grab the rope and get pulled up that is up to you.

If I offered you a cookie and you refused it why would i still give it to you?  Ultimate evil? I think not! The rope has been and will be dangling out there for you to grab until the end.  Sin is crime in God's eyes, all crimes have consequences, yet God offers you away OUT.  its called REPENTANCE and ACCEPTANCE.  How is it ultimate evil to offer freedom?                                                                                                                           

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to REPENTANCE.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


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JesusLovesYou wrote:It is

JesusLovesYou wrote:

It is not His desire that any perish.  If you choose to not grab the rope and get pulled up that is up to you.

Only if your God lacks the ability or desire to accomplish His will.

 

Besides, aren't you forgetting that your God created everything knowing exactly what would happen?  Does anything happen outside your God's will?

 


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Beyond Saving wrote:Brian37

Beyond Saving wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

I am sure if someone can find the Youtube clip of the MAD TV spoof "The Greatst Action Story Ever Sold", post it here. My abacus cant handle video.But funny stuff. It has the Terminator going back in time to save Jesus. "Come with me if you want to live".

It really demonstrates the absurdity of the magic man Jesus. If you are going to swallow the bullshit of virgin births or magically curing the blind or surviving physical death, why not throw time travel in too?

I love it in that clip when the Terminator shoots Judas and Jesus shouts at him, "Why did you do that", "He betrayed you" "I KNOW!"  Jesus cures Judas and the Terminator shoots him again, "STOP KILLING JUDAS!"

 

Thank you. That's the one.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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blacklight915

blacklight915 wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

It is not His desire that any perish.  If you choose to not grab the rope and get pulled up that is up to you.

Only if your God lacks the ability or desire to accomplish His will.

 

Besides, aren't you forgetting that your God created everything knowing exactly what would happen?  Does anything happen outside your God's will?

 

Yes God knows all, but WE as humans do not.  That is WHY we must REPENT.  Because of our limited knowledge as flesh and blood using the "well God knows all" excuse is pointless and silly.  When you REPENT, and i mean truely REPENT, then YOU know as HUMAN that you are going to make it into His presence.  We cannot know the mind of God. We are limited to our own. 

The rope is still there for you to grab on to.  He offers it freely. 

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


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I appreciate your response,

I appreciate your response, but...it doesn't really answer the more important question. Which is this: Does anything happen that your God doesn't want to happen?

 


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blacklight915 wrote:I

blacklight915 wrote:

I appreciate your response, but...it doesn't really answer the more important question. Which is this: Does anything happen that your God doesn't want to happen?

 

First off, He is God of all, not just my God.

Second, that is where our free will comes in.  Yes the Lord is yesterday, today, and forever and he knows beginning and end simultaneously but he gave us the ability to make our own choices.  If you are asking if God sat in heaven and orchestrated Adam Lanza's mass murder of children, no He did not.  Did He know it was going to happen? YES, BUT if God "interferred" then that would make us mere robots and not beings of free will. 

If there were no free will we could not freely love Him. 

Look at it this way.  My wife freely loves me.  I did not program her or manipulate to love me.  If I had done so that love would be manufactured and not genuine.  THAT is why we have free will. 

THAT is why no matter how deep in a pit you are in, the rope is ALWAYS out there to grab on to. 

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


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JesusLovesYou wrote:First

JesusLovesYou wrote:

First off, He is God of all, not just my God.

Second, that is where our free will comes in.  Yes the Lord is yesterday, today, and forever and he knows beginning and end simultaneously but he gave us the ability to make our own choices.  If you are asking if God sat in heaven and orchestrated Adam Lanza's mass murder of children, no He did not.  Did He know it was going to happen? YES, BUT if God "interferred" then that would make us mere robots and not beings of free will. 

If there were no free will we could not freely love Him. 

Look at it this way.  My wife freely loves me.  I did not program her or manipulate to love me.  If I had done so that love would be manufactured and not genuine.  THAT is why we have free will. 

THAT is why no matter how deep in a pit you are in, the rope is ALWAYS out there to grab on to. 

Are you simply just having some fun with us or are you serious ?

I know that if you were trying to just have fun with us, you probably would not own up to it, BUT, just for form's sake (and Sunday night boredom) I have to ask, are you just playing ? If not, what do you want ?

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


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harleysportster

harleysportster wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

First off, He is God of all, not just my God.

Second, that is where our free will comes in.  Yes the Lord is yesterday, today, and forever and he knows beginning and end simultaneously but he gave us the ability to make our own choices.  If you are asking if God sat in heaven and orchestrated Adam Lanza's mass murder of children, no He did not.  Did He know it was going to happen? YES, BUT if God "interferred" then that would make us mere robots and not beings of free will. 

If there were no free will we could not freely love Him. 

Look at it this way.  My wife freely loves me.  I did not program her or manipulate to love me.  If I had done so that love would be manufactured and not genuine.  THAT is why we have free will. 

THAT is why no matter how deep in a pit you are in, the rope is ALWAYS out there to grab on to. 

Are you simply just having some fun with us or are you serious ?

I know that if you were trying to just have fun with us, you probably would not own up to it, BUT, just for form's sake (and Sunday night boredom) I have to ask, are you just playing ? If not, what do you want ?

There is no reason for me to play

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


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JesusLovesYou wrote:First

JesusLovesYou wrote:

First off, He is God of all, not just my God.

Even if said being were real, I would not worship it, or call it 'God'. So, no--He is no God of mine.

 

JesusLovesYou wrote:

then that would make us mere robots and not beings of free will

I would prefer for people not to have the free will to kill, rape, torture, or abuse one another...

 

It would be more moral for your God to FORCE people to love Him, than to allow them to suffer in hell for eternity. In fact, it would be INFINITELY more moral.

 


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blacklight915

blacklight915 wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

First off, He is God of all, not just my God.

Even if said being were real, I would not worship it, or call it 'God'. So, no--He is no God of mine.

 

JesusLovesYou wrote:

then that would make us mere robots and not beings of free will

I would prefer for people not to have the free will to kill, rape, torture, or abuse one another...

 

It would be more moral for your God to FORCE people to love Him, than to allow them to suffer in hell for eternity. In fact, it would be INFINITELY more moral.

 


 

You REALLY don't get it do you.

Should we not punish rapists for raping? should we not punish murderers for killing? Thiefs for stealing?  No they go to JAIL!

How would it be more moral to force someone to love you? I go back to my wife...what would happen if i FORCED my wife to love me?

Love is not really love unless it is willful love.  Love starts as a choice.  There are many people that have murdered raped and stolen that finally realized their wrong, grabbed that rope that Christ is throwing out to us, they REPENTED, and are now redeemed and no longer are murderers rapists or thiefs.  God gives us a way OUT.  HE DOES NOT HOLD US UNDER.

You ever heard "is the glass half full or is it half empty?" Well my friend I can tell you see the glass as half empty, but I assure you that it is half full. 

and don't even try that rubbish of atheist morals.  If it weren't for theism in general there would be NO morals to consider. any moral that you have comes from various aspects of theism. 

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


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JesusLovesYou wrote:Should

JesusLovesYou wrote:

Should we not punish rapists for raping? should we not punish murderers for killing? Thiefs for stealing?  No they go to JAIL!

Jail is not infinite punishment. Since people cannot cause infinite suffering, they do not deserve infinite punishment.

 

JesusLovesYou wrote:

How would it be more moral to force someone to love you? I go back to my wife...what would happen if i FORCED my wife to love me?

You clearly didn't read the second part of my second to last sentence. Would forcing your wife to love you be acceptable if it was the only way to save her from eternal suffering?

 

JesusLovesYou wrote:

Well my friend I can tell you see the glass as half empty, but I assure you that it is half full.

You are no friend of mine. If your God is real, there truly is no hope: countless people will suffer for eternity, and there's nothing anyone can do to about it.

 

JesusLovesYou wrote:

and don't even try that rubbish of atheist morals.  If it weren't for theism in general there would be NO morals to consider. any moral that you have comes from various aspects of theism

Prove it, evil-worshiper.

 


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JesusLovesYou, you are no longer Welcome !!!

blacklight wrote:
JesusLovesYou wrote: .".and don't even try that rubbish of atheist morals. If it weren't for theism in general there would be NO morals to consider. any moral that you have comes from various aspects of theism ..'"   Prove it, evil-worshiper.

  Do you or do you not have any memory of the things you've written to this board JesusLovesYou?!? You speak with a forked tongue? This is not the Navy where you can get along on your seeming charm. Why would-n't any Mod throw you into Trollville and utterly toss away the key at this point ? Perceiving the thoughts of your heart AND you are nothing more than Trolling at this point (period)!! You dont get to run your mouth any-where but here, what a pathetic version of a christian ..you've turned out to be, Mister!! Anyone who'd 'lie' to his wife about the unspeakable sexual past you've had has no shame; quite literally. Shame and guilt are products of neurotransmitters (dopamine, seratonin for example) interacting with specific regions of the brain (e.g., the amygdala), at least some of the mechanics of it; it seems as though in certain people these regions and/or transmitters do not function as they do in most other people. these people have impoverished regions, or they just don't get activated -- and so they feel no shame/guilt at all. Or are such a coward they wont be straight with people . You're a nightmare!! There is nothing hidden that will not be made known.

p.s. -- Dana IS NOT JOKING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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danatemporary wrote:Anyone

danatemporary wrote:

Anyone who'd 'lie' to his wife about the unspeakable sexual past you've had has no shame; quite literally.

Wait, what exactly did he do?  All I remember is him making stuff up about Anonymouse's sex life...

 


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:)

It Matters!!

blacklight915 wrote:

danatemporary wrote:

Anyone who'd 'lie' to his wife about the unspeakable sexual past you've had has no shame; quite literally.

Wait, what exactly did he do?  All I remember is him making stuff up about Anonymouse's sex life...

 

Ref. -- forum/E2271 

   Hi

 

  I sent you a PM with a link that should fill you in. Check for the message Smiling

 


______

 >

 The MUST is full disclosure to your intended about ANYTHING that has taken place outside of intended wedlock, months prior to the Wedding night, applicable to any !! Encase these words live on, I wouldn't draw any immediate conclusions from this statement;  obviously I am echoing what anybody already 'knows'  to do (period) . There should be no need to make up stories to begin with (in the first place). Besides, What does anyone have to fear from the  truth ? Running the risk of 'ruining' everything is the decent thing to do!!

Quotes from the newly Trollish One :

   ( Edit :: Dont spout Bible verses, the lie of JLY:  Quotes from JLY .. The Bible says that husbands are to love their wives as Christ loves the Church and gave Himself for it.)

   ( Edit :: Dont tell lies to one another (goes for any):  Quotes from JLY Middle of Oct. 2O12 .. My wife and I went through things only God could have gotten us through.  I was not honest, and held things from my past from her out of fear.....things that she found out on her own, by accident.  She left for 5 days, we barely talked.)

 

 

 


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Professor wrote:
Everyone deserves death. We are all sinners. God is Holy and cannot tolerate sin.

Death is inevitable, deserts have nothing to do with it.

You god defined sin. Things are sin solely because he declared them to be sin. That was a fucking stupid thing to do.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


harleysportster
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JesusLovesYou wrote:There is

JesusLovesYou wrote:

There is no reason for me to play

I was afraid of an answer like this.


harleysportster
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JesusLovesYou wrote: If it

JesusLovesYou wrote:

 If it weren't for theism in general there would be NO morals to consider. any moral that you have comes from various aspects of theism. 

You mean the theistic morals of burning people alive for gathering sticks on Sunday ?

You mean the theistic morals of conquering and killing other people ?

You mean the theistic morals of raping, pillaging and such ?

You mean the morals of Yahweh, who drowned his own creations ?

You mean the morals of a god that tempts Adam and Eve, just for the hell of it ?

What is moral about any of that ?

 

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno