The "virtue of the oppressed"

THERE IS NO SUCH THING,

There IS however as there should be, which neither side has, is empathy for human suffering. As soon as you see your "enemy" as a sub species, it makes it easy to kill.

This beef started because of Christianity's narcissistic desire to fulfill the "end times" in which a Jewish state becomes the sign of the second coming. The Jews were used by Christianity at their most vulnerable time. If I had been the one to advise them where to go after the Allies saved them, I would not have told them to move into the crack infested neighborhood.

Instead, they are now doing to Palestine what was done to them in WW2.

BUT again, this is not a reflection of all people on either side, just the majority climate on both sides that perpetuates this bullshit.

The secular people on both sides need to gain power and need to cooperate and become the majority. The sectarians have power on both sides and they are the ones who want this to continue. Until pluralism and secularism takes hold in the politics of both sides, this is not going to end any time soon.

All the gang clubs of Abraham are death cults. The best humanity can do is put them on a leash, NEITHER are going anywhere.

Noony is just as guilty of drawing lines in the sand as Israel. And he is nuts to thing more of the same will work anymore than Isreal's "more of the same" will work.

I don't think he really wants it to stop. He'd have nothing to talk about anymore. And his arguments are generally examples of the problems of one side, instead of offering solutions that can impact the whole. Everything about Anonys posts suggests he's quite happy with the way things are.

Agreed.

I think BOTH sides need to do the following.

1. Stop pointing fingers

2. Stop seeing the other side as a sub species

3. Instead of "You started it" and "You go first"

Ask, "What can I bring to the table that is not more of the same".

To me Noony is as irrational as the land grabbers he rightfuly condemns but responds by using the same tribalisitic flawed logic the land grabbers use to justify what they do.

There is no such thing as a utopia, but if I could magically snap my fingers, that entire region would be on another planet away from all the people who are sick of it. I would only save those on both sides who agree with me and the rest could froth in the blood of their dick measuring contest away from the rest of us.

Noony is simply suffering the poor me attitude Israel is suffering from. Both sides are acting like childish brats.

Now, now. malcolm X didn't lash out indiscriminately like our boy Matt here does.

Um, where did I ever call Arabs "sand niggers"? And who said I wouldn't condemn it? And how do you think using a slur to combat a slur will help your cause?

I'm sure some Jews do call Arabs sand niggers out of bigotry, and they should not. But what the fuck does this have with to do with the entire population?

Again, I live in America, and we have plenty of racist assholes who call blacks niggers. So because I share the same borders with them, means I agree with them?

Just because someone says something nasty to you out of hate and fear, does not mean everyone who shares that label is against you.

But your "poor me" bullshit isn't going to work here so drop it.

But if you think I would want a law outlawing ANY pejorative I wont. There is a reason blasphemy should be protected. Any Christian, Jew or atheist living in Iran can tell you why blasphemy should be protected and any Sunni minority in Iran's Shiite majority can tell you that.

It is wrong to be a bigot, so when they say "sand nigger", just say fuck off. But don't be a baby and pretend your side doesn't do it too. Remember, you just used "Jew" as a slur to refer to me. I'm not using government to stop you from calling me a "Jew" am I? But you are an idiot for doing such and a childish one at that.

His behavior reminds me of the original Star Trec episode with the pair of guys in white/black face during the entire episode trying to kill each other. He should watch that episode.

He is so stuck on boarders and labels and so wrongfully full of hate that he cannot see that all conflicts are because of mundane human psychology and mundane human behavior. They were long before even any written riligion, and they will be so in the future when future humans are fighting over a different and new made up magic man surrounded by different borders.

He doesn't understandm neither do far too many Isrealis that problems do not get solved through more of the same.

It is one thing to stand up for yourself. It is quite wrong though to assume an eye for an eye benefits either side.

After I queried your reference to false history this was your direct claim, Nony:

To save latecomers to this thread any doubt about sorts of things Nony will not answer, here they are:

I suffer no distraction from your propensity to deal in falsehoods to support your agenda. Other people are dealing specifically with your claims about the Middle East.

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Nony, you do not know me. The extent of my “izzy loving” is the fourth generation Ashkenazi woman who has been taking to pork sword for 27 years. I condemn all of the crap that is going on over there all around.

I am a Celt. The Romans had to build a wall across what is now England to keep us from butt fucking them. The red sea pedestrians? Well, they got fucked on the deal. However, they have the land today under international law. That and probably about 450 nukes. They ain't going anywhere regardless of how you feel.

It has been 60 years now that the west has been complicit in an exodus of an ethnic group, a virtual genocide. That is not so hard to admit, is it? Just say it: I am a fascist pig for being complicit with genocide. I don't care enough to get informed and I entertain myself by forming opinions and spewing bullshit based on next to nothing and in doing so I am an accomplice to murder. Then we can start a more honest discussion.

How do we view Germans during second world war who thought that it's the victim's fault? That's how we should view ourselves today. We are the general public. Our nations condone and support mass murder. We have our convoluted idiotic discussions, just like the general population had back then. Do we forgive those people for inaction? We judge and demonize resistance movements, just like the general population in the occupied Europe did back then. How do we view that position today? Fifth column. Traitors. Monsters deserving of death. I am sure those people thought they were just going about their business. I am sure those people thought they could just go on about their business, but that is not the case, we do not accept that. They let it happen. And we are letting it happen now.

We can have a bit of hindsight's 20/20 vision today, we don't need much more than to imagine what the history will say about us in 10-20 years. History will call us murderers. We allowed it to happen for over half a century. And when our grandchildren ask us what we did while Palestinian children got run over by tanks, we will say "well, son, that's complicated..." And our grandchildren will see us the way we see war criminals of the second world war. And we will be lucky to be seen that way. The alternative is that we are the silent bystanders, indifferent onlookers, killers of hope.

Let me be clear: If you think that a population of 1.5 million with an average age of 15 due to low life expectency is to blame for their own nation-wide concentration camp, you are on the wrong side of history, like the nazi sympathisers were. And with this kind of wrong, you don't get to shrug it off 5-10 years from now and go "we didn't know". I am telling you now. You don't get to be neutral with this one. We don't have a freedom from culpability.

One last thing for people who would like to act, but are turned off by racist exclamations coming from people like A_Nony: I know that A_Nony_Mouse is an abnoxious dickweed, but many in the resistance movements world wide during the 2nd world war were just like that and worse. What fighters are like is secondary. That they fight is primary. I am sure many can make the point he's making much more eloquently, reasonably and with pussy-moisting charisma, but who gives a fuck if they don't? For whatever reason these 'much better choices' keep their mouth shut and go about their business. So don't discount a guy just because of his schitzophrenia; he's willing to fight and is relentless about it. It's the will that makes a historical person, not the skill. Stop bitching and get in the ring. Don't just stand there, boycot someone.

Jewish shills for Israel are obvious in that whenever the official Hasbara line changes they all switch to it. It is as primitive as all Soviet propaganda.

And like the Soviets they repeat their transparent propaganda, Hasbara in Israel, no matter how silly it is -- like the idea most people think Israelis ride around on camels.

As impartial observers can see by inspection the criminal occupation is the crime against peace.

Who but a paid shill for Israel could pretend I have never said END the occupation? End the occupation and the crime against peace ends. Then there is peace. End the crime against peace and there is only peace.

The oppressed can do on wrong against their oppressor. The oppressed have an absolute right to do anything they choose to do to attempt to end the oppression. Why would you say otherwise? Oppressors do not have the right to be oppressors and as such have forfeited all rights.

Be sure to tell me how thieves have a right to negotiate how much of what they have stolen they can keep.

Good. For a  minute there I thought you had gone off of your Hasbara script. Now you are back to saying the oppressed and suffering Palestinians are equal to their jewish oppressors who are not suffering in the least as a result of actions initiated by the Palestinians.

Do you really think I am going to stop when your soviet style Hasbara is not only simplistic but so obviously false? Maybe on your own you could do better but you can only recite what your employer requires you to say this week.

You might google "Theodor Herzl" some day and discover where it started. You are incredibly ignorant. Are you still in High School?

I have not gone so far as to say Jews are the same as Nazis as you just did. You should not deviate from the Hasbara script.

And when you have mastered using google and have made the search I suggested you will learn how I know you are deliberately lying -- unless you are a freshman in high school of course.

You KNOW only the jewish side are religious fruitcakes.

You also KNOW the Palestinian side is SECULAR but your required hasbara/proganda line is they are not. You continue to repeat lies which you KNOW are lies. You KNOW you are lying.

The only support for Israel is lies and liars. We all know that.

End the criminal occupation and the only crime against peace ends. As long as Jews insist upon being criminals then anything anyone wants to do to them for any reason is lawful. Criminals have no rights. The law does not protect criminals.

Nations have interests not friends. Saudi and several neighboring countries have oil. Israel has nothing. QED

If you were to deviate from saying they are equal would you lose your job? Be run out of synagogue? The Nazis called the many resistance movements criminals also. Geneva IV retroactively makes them heroes. Geneva IV makes the Palestinian resistance heroes. After all, they are only attacking their oppressors.

Hague IV Art 24.

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It all started against jewish tyranny. If you are confused the tell the PTB to separate the three distinct threads they insisted upon melding and thus confusing. Your confusion is because of the PTB not me.

I did not say a damned thing about Jewish identity until some clown tried to claim it was other than religious. I have noted for YEARS the only jewish identity is religious and that an atheist cannot be a Jew. That is not an issue. An atheist cannot be a Jew.

I paint criminal occupation with blood. That the criminal occupation is also jewish is a choice of the Jews not mine. Jews freely chose to be war criminals. No one forced them to be war criminals. Their blood is on their own hands. That is what Zionists have always proudly said.

Jews are obviously not rational people as so many of them have posted here stating things they know are false unless they are freshmen high school students. Jews have so many inbred diseases, the US has spent some $250M per year since 1997 researching them, that perhaps this is one of them. Donna Shalala was quite proud when she made the announcement on behalf of the Clinton administration. Perhaps this is one of those odd diseases which has yet to receive a formal diagnosis.

I agree with the concern for the poor bastards. It is an endangered religion -- all religions should be endangered like the Spotted Owl. There were only 15 million of them in 1938 and 13 million in 1948 the world populations of all religions have tracked the general world population which had doubled since then. There should be 26 to 30 million Jews in the world now but instead there are still only 13 million. Prior to the 20th c. their numbers did increase in proportion to the world population.

Their gene pool is contracting rapidly. These inbred diseases started with Shtetl jews where the family tree was a bush. Tay-Sachs is but one example. In Israel people have to be treated in a hospital for something they call "shock" which from what I have read in Israeli newspapers has no equivalent in any other country in the world. Hospitalization being required is the key difference.

You end the occupation first and then we will end the occupation of our own homes.

Is this another genetic disease of inbreeding that you can not see a difference?

Getting in the face of fellow-travelers who defend despotism and tyranny always has it consequences. And in this case it is also religious tyranny and despotism.

One would think in damning religion that this voluntary horrible example of the extremes of religious tyranny would be the cause celebre of the atheist movement.

Instead we discover these fake atheists are just christian hating Jews. That is what I discovered in my first posts here. In fact this is not the first place I have discovered it. Every time when I have encountered atheism it has been in the form of anti-christian. When I extended it to things like "Moses is fiction" the anti-christians were out in force defending Moses in every way possible.

As a matter of fact and without bragging, Dawkins' website used to have free and open discussion like here. When I exposed the pro-jewish hypocrisy of the "moderators" it was ended. I brought it down. They even got that idiot Dawkins to declare he is an "ethnic Christian" which makes me think he has early onset Altzheimers. His publications do not indicate he was dumb enough to say such a thing earlier in his career.

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You still don't get my point.  I see the problem as being way more complicated than you do.

Sure, we can shut off the power if we want to. However, that will require a UNSC resolution. Big problem there. All five of the declared nuclear powers have veto power there and the Israeli arsenal is an open secret. Pushing them to the point of desperation is not going to get them nuked. It is going to get Iran or Turkey nuked.

We think that Iran is still a few years away from being able to retaliate but we can't say for sure. Turkey on the other hand is a different matter.

After the Cuban missile crisis, we covertly sent the nukes back. They are treaty bound not to break the seal on the codes unless the shit goes down. However, if we put the kikes backs up against the wall, the odds of the shit going down massively increase.

My yid blowjobs not withstanding, your hate for the izzies is an open invite for nuclear war.

Now do you see the problem?

Says the man who is owned by the Arabs...

 You should probably take the USS Liberty site off your sig. They're not into anti-Semites.

So what?

So what? We're lying the moment we open our mouths and we kill hundreds of thousands with conventional weaponry and have been doing so since the second world war. We are the only country in history of human kind to drop nukes on civilian population. We should have a big fat ZERO to say in this matter.

It's a deterrant. That is well understood. The only reason Iraq was invaded was because they didn't have nukes; the countries in the region understood the message loud and clear and would be insane not to learn from it. Iran wants nukes, then we negotiate disarmament on even ground - God bless.

It's a deterrent, no one in their right mind will use the nukes offensivelly; that will end middle east and quite possibly the world. We HAVE TO create even ground to have leverage in disarmament procedures. We have to push Israel to the wall and get them  to understand that there is a door created by the international community (NOT by the US) that we want them to go through. Ultimately, that is the only way to save Israel from it's suicidal fascist leadership.

Israels nukes will accomplish the same thing as 9/11 and blowing up busses. DEATH.

So is the difference between right and wrong a mere matter of numbers? Or the stupidity on all parts of humanity that labels and borders are stupid?

After the fact. Still part of the problem and not part of the solution, just like those you accuse.

Lets skip your petty tribal beef for a sec. Lets talk about something completely unrelated.

I had been feeling sorry for myself lately. I felt isolated and that I was all alone and that no one understood me. I got over that when I realized that I was not.

Now, you realize that you are not alone. And you for whatever reason chose a side. They did too.

You are no less human for your feelings and suffering than they are.

My nemesis are the top two percent in this country. While true they are not lobbing rockets at me(Palistine, or using jets to shoot at schools(Israel), the fact is I am scraping by by the skin of my teeth.

ANY HUMAN, your side, their side, when they feel a threat, they react to it. In America the Palestinian/Israeli conflict to me might as well be economically "right/left" "rich/poor". Right now it isn't a violent conflict, and I truly hope it never reaches a real class war with weapons.

If you don't want other humans to be your enemy, THEN CONVEY THAT. If it is merely a matter of dominance and a pissing contest, instead of problem solving, then you will get nowhere and the violence will simply be childish schoolyard alpha male crap.

You piss me off for your blind support of Palestine, Beyond pisses me off for his blind support of the rich, and as much as I may hate the positions both of you hold, and even hate you as individuals, the fact still remains, that both you and I are human. My default position is to leave it at words even if they are harsh.

Words can be mighty and people DO  listen to them. But if all sides are tired of death and fighting, then why the fuck is peace so hard?