Practical Atheism

BethK
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Practical Atheism

I was talking to an International Workers of the World (IWW) member, e.g., a "Wobbly" years ago about the topic of belief in God. He had an interesting take on the matter. He identified himself as an atheist. Yet, he said to him, it did not matter whether or not a god or any sort of creator or supreme being exists or not - he would STILL identify as an atheist. I asked for, and got, a long explanation of that. I've borrowed some of these "practical" ideas about atheism for myself - along with the fact that there's no evidence for supernatural activity. The objective existence of any god is irrelevant. There are a few problems with human belief in such a being, worship of such, and following the leaders and writers of "scriptures" that cause many many problems in the world. First off, religions are used and abused by those in political power, or those who would gain political power, to assert what God really wants - which is conveniently beneficial to those making such claims. Those who can make such claims have money and resources, and want more. It's a lot easier to talk the common people into going to war and viewing it as right, proper, and their absolute duty to fight and die and kill because the people they are conquering believe in the wrong gods or devils, fail to believe in "the "one right, true, and only god" and because god has chosen them (their tribe, country, or government) as to be those he loves and blesses, than it is to talk people into going to war to gain resources or money or land or access to water or access to trade routes. It's a lot easier for those who are in the war to maim and kill enemies (including families, women, children, and even livestock) if they are viewed as inherently evil or against (their) god than it is to tell the front-line soldiers that this is for money and power of those in their own tribe, country, or government. See the Old Testament. On almost every page God is telling the Isrealites to kill somebody! Religions are used, misused, corrupted, and abused by those with money and power to control the masses. It's a lot easier to get people to believe that their invisible friend wants them to do something because he wants or needs it than it is to get other people to make YOU rich. And, tell them that they will get their rewards of riches and happiness in heaven after they die because they did "God's work" so well. Ah, so those in charge don't even have to share any of the wealth with those who got it for them, but continue to have a slave class - especially if they tell them that God wants them to "be fruitful and multiply". Plus there will be soldiers to fight the next generation of war and plunder. If God is really omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent and all other omnis, God could get things for himself, stop or cause whatever he wants. Why the need for God to have human soldiers to stop evil in his name? Why the need to "serve God"? Is he incapable of serving himself? In fact, even as some mystics say, the real desire God has is for your love, that would make God incomplete too. Someone who needs "love" is codependent - insecure, and lacking. That's a contradiction. So, if you don't want to be controlled by an outside influence, create the best life you can for yourself and those you love, don't turn your will over to an outside organization you believe to be guided by a supernatural force. There are many people, causes, animals, and so forth who want and need your love. If you do want to be controlled by an outside influence, be honest about what it is - do it for money or power or property. Some wars may be fought for humanitarian reasons, to stop the oppression of some people, but they seldom stay in the war for that reason alone. Don't do it for someone else - another human with the ability to persuade and influence people unless you decide it. Organized religion at least can and usually does have its organization used by and for something that may be at odds with what the religion claims to stand for, and how its god and moral code is portrayed. These "somethings" are usually of benefit to those with money and power. Goodness is a human attribute. To get good people to do evil, to double-think it as good, requires religion. Then there are other reasons to choose to disbelieve in God regardless of his existence or not. Like... how much of our best minds, money, education, time, and so forth are spent on religion which produces nothing, which could be better spent on more useful endeavors, such as invention, scientific research, teaching reading, writing, and arithmetic, deeply thinking of things more useful than the number of angels that will fit on a pinhead? Perhaps people could use that hour or 5 per week that people spend in church to visit the very lonely, homebound, or those living in nursing homes - often family members of the "good churchpeople". Perhaps they could use that money that they extravagantly spend on churches and vestments on such things as feeding the hungry, housing the homeless, and caring for the sick that their religious text seems to advocate. Instead, many very impoverished communities throughout the world have a huge, beautiful, gold-laden church. For now, at least until we get space travel down pat, and find or make another planet we can colonize, we've got to live on this one. There a great deal of things we can do to stop destroying the earth at this pace. But, when there are a sizable number of people who view this world as "young" and moreover DISPOSABLE since they think the second coming and Armageddon are happening within a decade, there is no need for reduce, reuse, recycle, finding cleaner and sustainable forms of energy, controlling human population overshoot, finding more energy-efficient and non-polluting modes of transportation, and so on. This all takes time, thought, research, and money. We'd have more of all of those if we weren't spending them on religion which gives nothing back. There is a lot of more beneficial things to think about than to convince onesself of the existence of something that cannot be shown to exist. There are much better things to do than to talk onesself or others into the delusion of seeing/feeling/talking to/getting messages from something that cannot be objectively measured. This may give some unbalanced people more "permission" to go off the deep end. For instance, in Christian countries, there are many mentally ill people who believe they are Jesus Christ. Where impersonating a religious icon is prohibited, like Muslim countries where it's met with death, the mentally ill don't go off that way. They have some semblance of understanding what is what, at least before they "move in" to the delusion. Heck, in some circles there may even be encouragement to do believe you are Christ - starts out as "christ-like". Indeed, there is no evidence for the existence of anything supernatural. With the above reasons, I would not worship such a being if one were to convincingly appear on the White House roof, seen, filmed, and broadcast to billions.


Ktulu
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Those are some heart felt

Those are some heart felt and liberal reasons not to join a religion.  But religion was never about spirituality, or belief.  It was about sustaining an institution.  I am an atheist.  I would never join a religious movement, but the idea of spirituality has appealed to me in the past as I was coming along to my current conclusion.

To ignore tangible and credible evidence in favour of ideals is no better than bible thumping fundamentalists.

 

"Don't seek these laws to understand. Only the mad can comprehend..." -- George Cosbuc


butterbattle
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Que?To assert that you

Que?

To assert that you believe a claim is to say that you hold that claim to be true. How can you disbelieve the claim that god exists (not hold that god exists) regardless of the truth of the claim (even if you know that he exists)? That's just incoherent. 

Believing that a god exists is not equivalent to worshiping or even respecting that god. The God of the OT is a narcissistic asshole; his existence wouldn't make him any less of an asshole. 

An atheist is a person that doesn't believe in any gods. A theist is a person that believes in god(s). Neither term says anything about the person's attitude towards god(s). A person that believed in a god but didn't worship that god is technically a theist.

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


BethK
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Butterbattle, Yes, I agree

Butterbattle,

Yes, I agree on the terms theist - believer in god(s) and atheist - disbeliever in any gods.

To make it clear, I do not believe in god(s). Everything in the universe can be explained with natural means. The existence of a god is unnecessary. No action by a god has been observed. Ergo, by Occam's Razor, God does not exist.

In fact, the physics of a number of those natural means which are understood by modern science are far more of a "WOW!" than believing that Someone created all of "this". No doubt, we will discover more over time.

However, many people do believe in a god. Many people follow religions or religious teachings. These arguments against religion (which is not the same as a god) still hold. Religions do not allow the progression of society or science and keep things at a particular level when their books were written, and strive to return to that time. The secondary "promise" is that if we do, God will come and "bless" us and magically make everything perfekt.

Believing in a god, and following a religion because someone else claims to have "inside knowledge" and "divine revelation" which are without evidence or outside observation is ludicrous. It's even more absurd to give over your own best interest to what such a claimant says you should.

Many gods have been postulated throughout world history. Many or most of them are more appealing than the God of the OT - who seems to be a cosmic spoiled child sometimes, a mentally ill sadist other times, grossly incompetent other times, and internally inconsistent throughout. Yet, I think they all should be put on the heap of fiction along with the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus, fairies, unicorns, Paul Bunyon, vampires, werewolves, and the like. It's just that some Gods are more like Santa, and others are more like things in vampire legends.

I would not worship one of these more unpleasant (for lack of a better word) gods even if one were proven to exist. If he/she/it appeared on the White House roof, I would not worship it, even though I would be forced to believe in it along with the rest of the world.

How's my proselytizing? Call 1-800-FANATIC

Beth