Theists ; Time to grab a clue...

redneF
atheistRational VIP!
redneF's picture
Posts: 1970
Joined: 2011-01-04
User is offlineOffline
Theists ; Time to grab a clue...

For f**k sakes.

Just "Think about it"

Not just some of it.

All of it...

 


Ciarin
Theist
Ciarin's picture
Posts: 778
Joined: 2008-09-08
User is offlineOffline
There's no heaven or hell in

There's no heaven or hell in my beliefs. The reward for living a good fulfilling life is that you get remembered well by those that live on. The only punishments for being a villain is whatever the criminal justice system finds for you. Yes my religion is a minority. Not because of it's lack of reward or punishment, but because it was stamped out of existence by the ruling class(christianity was a better system of control, imo), and eventually outlawed. It's making a bit of a comeback, though. The heathen movement started a couple of decades ago. But it's not like we go out and proselytize to get more members.

 

Wikipedia does not back up your claim that religions are popular for their reward/punishment. Correlation does not equal causation. PLease cite a study or peer reviewed article that agrees with your claim, otherwise we can just agree to disagree on the topic.


redneF
atheistRational VIP!
redneF's picture
Posts: 1970
Joined: 2011-01-04
User is offlineOffline
Ciarin wrote: PLease cite a

Ciarin wrote:

 PLease cite a study or peer reviewed article that agrees with your claim, otherwise we can just agree to disagree on the topic.

As if your agreement, or disagreement, means squat, in reality...

I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."

"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks

" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris


Ciarin
Theist
Ciarin's picture
Posts: 778
Joined: 2008-09-08
User is offlineOffline
redneF wrote:As if your

redneF wrote:

As if your agreement, or disagreement, means squat, in reality...

 

Look, I know you have a crush on me, but how's about letting the grown-ups talk for a moment without your inane interruptions, m'kay?

 

kthxbye


redneF
atheistRational VIP!
redneF's picture
Posts: 1970
Joined: 2011-01-04
User is offlineOffline
Ciarin wrote:LOL, he has no

Ciarin wrote:

LOL, he has no idea who he's talking to.


EXC
atheist
EXC's picture
Posts: 3929
Joined: 2008-01-17
User is offlineOffline
Ciarin wrote:There's no

Ciarin wrote:

There's no heaven or hell in my beliefs. The reward for living a good fulfilling life is that you get remembered well by those that live on. The only punishments for being a villain is whatever the criminal justice system finds for you. Yes my religion is a minority. Not because of it's lack of reward or punishment, but because it was stamped out of existence by the ruling class(christianity was a better system of control, imo), and eventually outlawed.

 

Your religion had few adherents and the adherents were not as fanatical. That's what heaven and hell does, drive people to violence to push their religion. The rewards and punishments of your religion the same as atheism, so what's the point? Why have magical beliefs unless there is a reward? 

Ciarin wrote:

It's making a bit of a comeback, though. The heathen movement started a couple of decades ago. But it's not like we go out and proselytize to get more members.

 

No reward in winning souls. Another reason it's not popular.

Ciarin wrote:

Wikipedia does not back up your claim that religions are popular for their reward/punishment. Correlation does not equal causation. PLease cite a study or peer reviewed article that agrees with your claim, otherwise we can just agree to disagree on the topic.

In modern psychology, it's assumed that all animal and human behaviors are motivated by an expectation of reward/avoidance of punishment. Are they missing something, is there some other motivation? Please tell us what it could possible be.

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen


Ciarin
Theist
Ciarin's picture
Posts: 778
Joined: 2008-09-08
User is offlineOffline
Good job not showing

Good job not showing evidence. I guess we'll just disagree then.


Answers in Gene...
High Level Donor
Answers in Gene Simmons's picture
Posts: 4214
Joined: 2008-11-11
User is offlineOffline
 Ciarin wrote:It's making a

 

Ciarin wrote:
It's making a bit of a comeback, though. The heathen movement started a couple of decades ago. But it's not like we go out and proselytize to get more members.

 

I remember that time well. I was doing the 'trek convention thing (as a Klingon) at the time and there were a bunch of neopagans in my group. I started a competing religion just for shits and giggles. In all honesty, it never occurred to me to write up anything about an afterlife, so I would say with all the authority invested in me by well, me, that the reward structure is that if you do well, your enemies will die and if you do poorly, you will die.

 

Not that I am agreeing with you or anything but it is certainly possible for a religion to have no concept of an afterlife.

 

That was over 15 years ago and oddly, I still get the occasional email from someone who claims to be an adherent to my musings.

 

For the record, there used to be 52 Klingon gods. I say “used to” because my character had the balls to commit deo/genocide.

NoMoreCrazyPeople wrote:
Never ever did I say enything about free, I said "free."

=


EXC
atheist
EXC's picture
Posts: 3929
Joined: 2008-01-17
User is offlineOffline
Ciarin wrote:Good job not

Ciarin wrote:

Good job not showing evidence. I guess we'll just disagree then.

Here is a summary of all leading theories of motivation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motivation

All theories assume humans and animals are motivated by rewards and punishments as a priori. All behavioral scientists like Skinner, Pavlov have assumed and performed experiments on behavior assuming that all human and animal behavior is motivated by rewards/punishments.

Now if you deny my claim that people are motivated to religious adherence by expectation of reward/punishment, you must be claiming that human behavior can be motivated by something other than rewards/punishments, right? This would be a completely new theory of motivation. What is this motivation and how does it work? Is there any science behind this?

What is a theory of human behavior to explain your religious beliefs and practice?

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen


100percentAtheist
atheist
100percentAtheist's picture
Posts: 679
Joined: 2010-05-02
User is offlineOffline
redneF

redneF wrote:

100percentAtheist wrote:

Let's say that god is god, and we don't know much about him (or them).  I don't see why god should be assumed to be "flawless", or "omnipotent", or anything else.  A simple answer would be 'we don't know'.   What if it is very hard to be god and 'poofing' things into existence is not as simple as some may think?  Imagine heavenly bureaucracy that needs to be passed by a god to get a permit for poofing something into existence, and this heavenly bureaucracy has all the eternity to consider the case.  

The 'perfect' BS, is apologetics.

The basic premise of the Abrahamic god legend is based on the philosophy "He who has absolute power to giveth, is he who has the absolute power to taketh"

So, if you adopt both these philosophies:

1- "He who has absolute power to giveth, is he who has the absolute power to taketh"

2- Finite regress

 

Then you are 'logically boxed' in, to come 1 conclusion.

The Abrahamic god is a 'given'.

 

That's a fucking retarded 'logic'...

 

 

Nowhere I indicated or implied I mean the Abrahamic god.