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A catholics assertion.
Posted on: February 3, 2011 - 2:07am
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A catholics assertion.
".......And By the Way it's scientifically proven that life starts at conception.....FTW!"
I just found this on this catholic forum site I'm parousing, comments...
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Yah, the most obvious thing to my mind is that no scientist anywhere has ever “proved” anything at all. Not to 100.00% confidence level, assuming that that is what they meant by “scientifically proved”.
What scientists do is a process of refinement of reasoning such that the confidence level should increase from the base line to some higher confidence level. At some point, the confidence level reaches the point for any given assertion that it becomes good enough to work with as if it were really real. That being said, for every scientific truth, there is always a little bit of uncertainty which remains.
Past that, it is relatively easy to pick a definition of life and then say that life begins at that point. Perhaps they mean that life begins when a complete set of 46 genes comes together? Then, yes, that is when life begins. However, that is playing fast and loose with definitions and not addressing basic ideas.
Really, life seems to have began a bit over 3*10^9 years ago. It has been a continuous process since then. To say that life is created anew at every moment when genes come together in specific combinations fails to account for other forms of reproduction which are rather well studied such as the bacterial fission that occurs in single celled life or the horizontal transfer of plasmid rings.
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AIGS, that's pretty much what I would have said.
I would add that, if by "life begins", they mean an independent, new life, then that still doesn't work, really.
What happens that a process that will normally lead to a fully independent manifestation of the species in question can be said to start at conception.
The degree of independence starts from zero and grows, jumping a significant degree at birth, and continues into adulthood, in normal maturation.
Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me
From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology
What strikes me is that most religious pro-life people are also pro-mutilation of the genitals...
Why not postpone it to a later time, when a man can decide for himself whether he wants it?
Because it's only a baby, it has no consciousness and will therefore not remember it.
And how is drawing a line there different from us drawing a line at birth (I say us, but I haven't really decided yet. Or does that make me pro-choice? Since I don't know what to choose, so I'll let the mother do it?)
"Last night, thousands of potential children died on your daughter's/sister's/mother's face."
“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)
Life is sacred but the tools and methods used to make life are evil. It's a confusion Christianity has had for years.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
I saw a thread yesterday where a person was asking why having sex when you knew the female would not conceive, due to ovulation tracking, was any better than condom usage. Apparently that is a common practice used to get around not being able to use birth control.
The responses where pathetic...it came down to, "Because it's not a sin." Lol. Circular reasoning for the win.
Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.
It is scientifically proven that life begins when the kids move out on their own.
www.RichWoodsBlog.com
I was going to write:
"Life *begins* long before conception, I can prove it with a bottle of lube and a microscope"
But I can't find that thread anymore.
I highly suggest people here go to this catholic forum site, it is highly addictive. We've all talked about how it gets a little boring from time to time not having to many theists around for discussion. This place is AWESOME!!! The activity is crazy, the flawgic and absurdities are so thick you won't even know where to start. Just pick a thread and reply, you'll have post after post of illogical bullshit to debunk in no time.
http://forums.catholic.com
I've been in a debate about maryjuana use and I spoke freely, they haven't kicked me off yet. I signed up as 2 different characters, a strong athiest, and an on the fence Catholic.
They must have surveyed 100 fertilized eggs for their opinions, and gotten the same response, and called that 100% proof....
I keep asking myself " Are they just playin' stupid, or are they just plain stupid?..."
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy" : David Brooks
" Only on the subject of God can smart people still imagine that they reap the fruits of human intelligence even as they plow them under." : Sam Harris
So the sperm was dead while it was being ejaculated amongst the millions in the load that lead to that one sperm beating out all the others to get to the dead egg? Neither was alive before they met? So if the sperm and egg were dead, then why did they have motion? Why were their hosts contributing fuel to them so they could eventually meet, if they were dead?
Life is a process, not a magic trick. For every sperm that impregnates an egg, there are millions more that die. Multiply the 7 billion humans, NOT ONLY BY THE MILLIONS in the one load that does get lucky, you also have to multiply it by all the dead sperm in that one load, but the other loads that end up being pissed out, nocturnal emissions, and masturbation and blow jobs and pearl necklaces.
Not to mention all the LIVE eggs that end up in periods, THAT OUT NUMBER, full term pregnancies. And still born and birth defect babies, and child hood death. 2,000 people A DAY, die from Malaria. Multiply that by 365. And that is not including other factors like famine, cancer, death in war, death in domestic murder....ect ect ect.
Most attempts at life fail. The "abundance" of life that does go to term, IN EVERYTHING, from plants to insects to bacteria, FAIL!
If this alleged magical being had to explain all his manufacturing waste to Trump in the board room, what do you think Trump would say?
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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This is my favorite response.
If they don't seem to understand the above quote, 'life' is not even an absolute term in scientific discussions. There are multiple definitions for life and while they all cover most 'living' things some things do get left out occasionally, most notably viruses. If life is any reproductive organic entity, well, viruses aren't self-replicating. Sure they can replicate and do propagate themselves, but not independently, viruses are pretty much inert until they come in to contact with other cells.
Scientifically, life isn't some arbitrary moment in time, humans are considered 'life' because we gather energy, reproduce, etc. But no one would make the claim that a sterile human is not alive. The scientific definition of life hardly even applies to an individual organism, let alone a mere point in time during that organism's existence.