Hitchens [from a fundie perspective]

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Hitchens [from a fundie perspective]

Christopher Hitchens is a horrible human being, even by our standards.  He is rude, crass, and his entire career was built on spreading lies and misinformation about God and religion. 

Truth be told, I did not follow the Hitchens cancer story too much.  I've been too busy.

But today, I just caught the interview that he did with Anderson Cooper and I was saddened to see him in such a weak state.

I only hope that he finds it in himself to change his mind about God because unfortunately, the pain he is experiencing now will be nothing compared to what awaits him in Hell if he does not repent. 

Then again, I am sensing fear in him.  He says that he does not mind if we pray for him.  He even acknowledged that as he comes closer to death's door, his mental state will change and that he may eventually profess that he has accepted Jesus as his lord and savior so long as his mental state changes.  I think he is simply saying this to cover himself, such that he will not be remembered as a hypocrite when he passes on.  By the time he dies, he will have made amends with God while leaving room for atheists to disregard this based on what he previously stated.

There truly are no atheists in foxholes.


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So...fuck you? 

So...fuck you?

 

Edit:  Was there any purpose to this post other than blatant trolling?  I've seen the interviews, and I can't imagine a sane person reaching the conclusions you've written, so I'm forced to assume you're just being a phallus for amusement.  So yea, fuck you.

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Meaning_Of_Life wrote:There

Meaning_Of_Life wrote:

There truly are no atheists in foxholes.

It's ironic that you start out ranting about lies and misinformation and end with a lie/misinformation.  

 

Why make the atheist in foxhole comment and what place did it have with the rest of your rant?

Here's a foxhole atheist for you if you really didn't know: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Tillman

 

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  As far as I remember, in

  As far as I remember, in regard to his possible conversion to Christianity, Hitchens said that the mental state that would excuse such conversion will be called dementia.   If you like to state that dementia and Christianity are walking the same paths, then I will agree with you on this one.  ... so, how about you?

 

 


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For all his flaws

Meaning_Of_Life wrote:

I only hope that he finds it in himself to change his mind about God because unfortunately, the pain he is experiencing now will be nothing compared to what awaits him in Hell if he does not repent. 

 

Hitchens was an honest human being who never said anything so remotely disgusting as you just did. You're an arsehole, MoL. I'm sure the lord will not forgive you. 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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From a fundie perspective?

From a fundie perspective? Is that your perspective?

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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Who, in their right mind,

Who, in their right mind, wants to go to heaven anyways? It's full of fundies and idiots.

Hell is where all the cool people are...

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Meaning_Of_Life wrote:There

Meaning_Of_Life wrote:

There truly are no atheists in foxholes.

Soundbyte....

Where's the evidence for this?

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butterbattle wrote:From a

butterbattle wrote:

From a fundie perspective? Is that your perspective?

It is my perspective.

Brian Sapient edited the title of the thread and moved it from the General Conversation forum.

Much like Hitchens, his career is built on dishonesty, though I'm reluctant to call it a "career" since, from what I understand, Sapient makes no money from this website and he is unemployed (Interview with Laura Ingraham). 

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Atheistextremist

Atheistextremist wrote:

Meaning_Of_Life wrote:

I only hope that he finds it in himself to change his mind about God because unfortunately, the pain he is experiencing now will be nothing compared to what awaits him in Hell if he does not repent. 

 

Hitchens was an honest human being who never said anything so remotely disgusting as you just did. You're an arsehole, MoL. I'm sure the lord will not forgive you. 

But you don't believe in God.

I love it how atheists constantly push for moral relativism, yet as soon as someone does something which they do not appreciate, they are quick to reprimand that person for doing something horrible, even though by their worldview, nothing can objectively be called "horrible". 

 

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I don't but you do, MoL and he asks more

Meaning_Of_Life wrote:

Atheistextremist wrote:

Meaning_Of_Life wrote:

I only hope that he finds it in himself to change his mind about God because unfortunately, the pain he is experiencing now will be nothing compared to what awaits him in Hell if he does not repent. 

 

Hitchens was an honest human being who never said anything so remotely disgusting as you just did. You're an arsehole, MoL. I'm sure the lord will not forgive you. 

But you don't believe in God.

I love it how atheists constantly push for moral relativism, yet as soon as someone does something which they do not appreciate, they are quick to reprimand that person for doing something horrible, even though by their worldview, nothing can objectively be called "horrible". 

 

Of you than this. And listen chum. Don't fucking attempt to wrest morality from me. Everything about you attests to the truth morality is not owned by your disgusting dogma. A simple apology would show you have a heart but there's nothing true inside you, is there. 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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Meaning_Of_Life

Meaning_Of_Life wrote:

Atheistextremist wrote:

Meaning_Of_Life wrote:

I only hope that he finds it in himself to change his mind about God because unfortunately, the pain he is experiencing now will be nothing compared to what awaits him in Hell if he does not repent. 

 

Hitchens was an honest human being who never said anything so remotely disgusting as you just did. You're an arsehole, MoL. I'm sure the lord will not forgive you. 

But you don't believe in God.

I love it how atheists constantly push for moral relativism, yet as soon as someone does something which they do not appreciate, they are quick to reprimand that person for doing something horrible, even though by their worldview, nothing can objectively be called "horrible". 

 

If there is anyone pushing for moral relativism, it's you. You call it forgiveness. You claim to have this unchanging arbiter of absolute morality whose mind can be changed if you ask him for forgiveness and promise really hard not to do it again (unless you want to). Repeat as needed.

As for subjective v. objective, I definitely have a different definition of "horrible" than your God. I think murder is horrible. He says the same about eating shellfish.

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Meaning_Of_Life

Meaning_Of_Life wrote:

Christopher Hitchens is a horrible human being, even by our standards.  He is rude, crass, and his entire career was built on spreading lies and misinformation about God and religion. 

Truth be told, I did not follow the Hitchens cancer story too much.  I've been too busy.

But today, I just caught the interview that he did with Anderson Cooper and I was saddened to see him in such a weak state.

I only hope that he finds it in himself to change his mind about God because unfortunately, the pain he is experiencing now will be nothing compared to what awaits him in Hell if he does not repent. 

Then again, I am sensing fear in him.  He says that he does not mind if we pray for him.  He even acknowledged that as he comes closer to death's door, his mental state will change and that he may eventually profess that he has accepted Jesus as his lord and savior so long as his mental state changes.  I think he is simply saying this to cover himself, such that he will not be remembered as a hypocrite when he passes on.  By the time he dies, he will have made amends with God while leaving room for atheists to disregard this based on what he previously stated.

There truly are no atheists in foxholes.

The “No Atheists in Fox holes” argument is as dumb as they come… as coincidentally, are you….

“Belief” that is fear inspired is not true belief at all… rather it is (like all belief in god) an irrational response to one’s impending demise…. One cannot “choose” to believe in anything… Belief is what the acumen of our life’s experience intellectually determines as “The Truth”… any admission made contrary to that, regardless if they are made out of fear is called “Denial”…

What Christians continually fail to understand is that you cannot provoke one into believing through fear… all you can hope to do is prey upon one’s anxiety, and put them in a state of consistent intellectual and imaginative sensory deprivation….

Conversion through fear is both utterly contemptible, and un- “Christ-like”…In this regard, Christians are as predatory and dishonorable as drug dealers on a grade school playground… it is imposing, something that the fictional Jesus character never was…

You posted this hoping to provoke an angry response by dropping the name of Christopher Hitchens, who you are well aware is an iconic figure to many people here… There was no concern for others, nor were you attempting anything other than inspiring angst…

If you would like to learn how to employ the morals you associate with Christ, I suggest you behave more like an Atheist…

 


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Gaseous intestinal

Gaseous intestinal disturbances now continues!


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Meaning_Of_Life wrote:I love

Meaning_Of_Life wrote:
I love it how atheists constantly push for moral relativism, yet as soon as someone does something which they do not appreciate, they are quick to reprimand that person for doing something horrible, even though by their worldview, nothing can objectively be called "horrible". 

I don't think that all atheist  or even atheist in general push for moral relativism. Rather they seek to understand the seeming relativistic morals that do exist and seek to understand how one might posit normative values as much as one can. So there is ground to call something "horrible".

 

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Meaning_Of_Life

Meaning_Of_Life wrote:

 Sapient makes no money from this website and he is unemployed (Interview with Laura Ingraham). 

The interview with Laura Ingraham happened three years ago.  I've been working a real job since September of 2008 and started working two jobs in April of 09.  You're just one big bundle of lies, eh?

 

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Rich Woods wrote:Rich

Edit:  Shit, wrong thread.

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You are dumb. There are many

You are dumb. There are many things in our worldview we consider 'horrible'. You are just one fine example of this.


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Meaning_Of_Life

Meaning_Of_Life wrote:

Christopher Hitchens is a horrible human being, even by our standards.  He is rude, crass, and his entire career was built on spreading lies and misinformation about God and religion. 

So I guess you have him on video stabbing believers to death? You have him on video  plotting using airliners as bombs? Or is it you merely don't like him using the word "bullshit" when objecting to a claim he finds absurd?

Not liking his "rudeness" does not make him a monster anymore than you spewing this bullshit makes you a monster.

It is NOT a lie that in the history of Chrisitanity that it has been used to oppress other religions, oppress blacks and women and gays.

It is FACT that the bible is full of depictions of violence done under the watch of this alleged being who didn't have to allow any violence at all.

It is a fact that the end of that horrible book tells a story of genocide where humans get to slaughter each other so that you can get past the velvet ropes at the expense of the rest of humanity. According to that horrible book most of the 6 billion humans will suffer and then be thrown in the trash all so that a select few can hang out with daddy.

You come in here and expect us to put up with your bullshit? If you want to debate, debate. But Hitchens is not a monster.

Jefferson, a deist, would call you an idiot for calling Hitchens a monster for merely blaspheming your religion.

"Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus. " Letter to Frances Van der Kemp, July 30 1816

Here is what he thought of the birth and death of Jesus:

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter." Letter to John Adams, April 11 1823

"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because, if there be one, he must approve the homage of reason rather than of blind-folded fear. Do not be frightened from this inquiry by any fear of its consequences.... If it end in a belief that there is no god, you will find incitements to virtue in the comfort and pleasantness you feel in its exercise and in the love of others it will procure for you." Letter to Peter Carr, August 10th 1787         

 

He was no atheist, but if you are going to call Hitchens a monster for merely blaspheming your religion you should call Jefferson a monster too for merely giving Hitchens the right to blaspheme your religion.

So unless you are going to threaten violence to us atheists, like some Muslims do when they hear  things they don't like, spare us your childish insecurity and debate the existence of the god you claim is real.  But you are an idiot if you think you can come in here and spew this crap and think we won't or should not react to it.

Hitchens would no more leave a believer bleeding in the street after a car accident than you or I would. He simply thinks all god belief is bullshit.

Grow up. Your pet god must not be all powerful if mere blasphemy can hurt it.

When people like you bitch about your god being picked on I get the image of a midget standing spread eagle in front of the Terminator shouting, "DON'T PICK ON MY GOD, YOU MIGHT HURT HIM".

So your all powerful god has a glass jaw? He cares more about being picked on than things like disease, war, and crime?

Jefferson believed in a generic god of nature and liked some of the nicer stories in the bible as merely being nice stories, but did not buy any of the hocus pocus in the bible. He would BITCH SLAP you verbally  for being afraid of blasphemy and your childish trailer park honor crap.

GROW THE FUCK UP AND DEBATE, otherwise get the fuck out and don't come back.

 

                   

 

 

 

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Sapient

Sapient wrote:

Meaning_Of_Life wrote:

 Sapient makes no money from this website and he is unemployed (Interview with Laura Ingraham). 

The interview with Laura Ingraham happened three years ago.  I've been working a real job since September of 2008 and started working two jobs in April of 09.  You're just one big bundle of lies, eh?

 

Sapient, it shouldn't matter if even if this was the only thing you made money off of. You provide a service that people want. This dickhead merely doesn't like his pet god being competed with. It's ok for preachers to make their living condemning other religions and minorities and gays and atheists. But you are a monster because you provide us with a place to hang out and vent.

If the hypocrisy were any thicker in the OP you could cut it with a knife.

I love how when the believer cant make a case for their god, they doge it by attacking the person. Even if you were jobless and homeless it still wouldn't prove the existence of Jesus, or Allah or Thor.

You have done great things for not only atheists, but even this guy, even if they don't realize it. Keep up the great work.

TO THE OP, if you insist on posting, then debate. Hit and run tirades don't cut it here.

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BTW to the OP, if Hitchens

BTW to the OP, if Hitchens is such a "monster" then why would he call Thomas Jefferson his hero? Why would he write a book about Jefferson?

"Thomas Jefferson, Author of America" Christopher Hitchens.

How does your foot taste?

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Meaning_Of_Life wrote:Then

Meaning_Of_Life wrote:
Then again, I am sensing fear in him. He says that he does not mind if we pray for him. He even acknowledged that as he comes closer to death's door, his mental state will change and that he may eventually profess that he has accepted Jesus as his lord and savior so long as his mental state changes.

 

Have you considered the possibility that he has taken the case of noted Atheist Anthony Flew to heart?

 

As he got to be quite old, Flew lost his marbles and made some vague references to possibly having become a deist “based on the scientific evidence” whatever that meant. Later, after Flew had retreated fully from public life, he supposedly published a final book where he claimed that he had become a christian. However, that would have been so out of keeping with the way that he spent the first 70 years of adulthood, than many consider that those words were not written by him but rather by his editor.

 

Or what about Charles Darwin?

 

Almost right after he died, there was a woman who lived in the same town who proceeded to spend the rest of her days making the claim that she attended the old Darwin at his death bed and personally heard his conversion. The only problem being that his whole family then had to spend years telling the same people that she was a crazy old bat who had never been in Darwin's house even once.

 

Hence the reason why Dawkins has told everyone that when he lays dying, he intends to have an audio recorder with a voice activated microphone hooked up to him. That way, his final words may become a matter of public record so that his memory may not be abused by liars with an agenda.

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Quote:Hence the reason why

Quote:
Hence the reason why Dawkins has told everyone that when he lays dying, he intends to have an audio recorder with a voice activated microphone hooked up to him. That way, his final words may become a matter of public record so that his memory may not be abused by liars with an agenda.

And as much as I love Dawkins, I think he is a fool trying to take this tactic. Hitchens got it right by taking into account that his mental state and physical state may be altered and that he wouldn't be in his right mind.

If Dawkins has a brain injury, or brain disease or is looped up on meds he won't be capable of making rational statements,

Hitchens said that he can't say what he will do when he gets that ill, but would not want people taking him seriously because it will not be him at that point.

I too cannot say what I will say, even in a lucid state tomorrow, because I have not lived tomorrow yet. But I can say that it is currently impossible for me to think that I will change my mind knowing what I know now, when not affected physically by something.

But it would not shock me if I suffered some brain injury or disease or emotional trauma that could be intense enough to cause me to say things I wouldn't under normal conditions.

Which makes the God concept as a claim even more sick. Why does this alleged being need us to suffer in order for it to gain fans?

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Meaning_Of_Life

Meaning_Of_Life wrote:

Christopher Hitchens is a horrible human being, even by our standards.  He is rude, crass, and his entire career was built on spreading lies and misinformation about God and religion. 

Truth be told, I did not follow the Hitchens cancer story too much.  I've been too busy.

But today, I just caught the interview that he did with Anderson Cooper and I was saddened to see him in such a weak state.

I only hope that he finds it in himself to change his mind about God because unfortunately, the pain he is experiencing now will be nothing compared to what awaits him in Hell if he does not repent. 

Then again, I am sensing fear in him.  He says that he does not mind if we pray for him.  He even acknowledged that as he comes closer to death's door, his mental state will change and that he may eventually profess that he has accepted Jesus as his lord and savior so long as his mental state changes.  I think he is simply saying this to cover himself, such that he will not be remembered as a hypocrite when he passes on.  By the time he dies, he will have made amends with God while leaving room for atheists to disregard this based on what he previously stated.

There truly are no atheists in foxholes.

Hahaha. Man, Hitchens got under your skin, didn't he? I don't think you even understood where the guy was coming from -- he didn't care if believers believed, he cared if believers abused people with their beliefs. Hence his vehement hatred towards that maggot Jerry Falwell. He welcomes prayers because he appreciates the thought, not being he thinks Jesus is going to come save him. And I appreciate that he was honest that fear of death can make you do insane shit -- it's especially easy when you're acculturated with stories of people who come to Christ last minute... Oddly enough, though, I've not a story of a Muslim coming to Christ right before he died, or a follower of Shinto. It seems your Jesus has a geographic realm of influence when it comes to this.

There are truly no intelligent people among the fundies. ;D

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Sapient

Sapient wrote:

Meaning_Of_Life wrote:

 Sapient makes no money from this website and he is unemployed (Interview with Laura Ingraham). 

The interview with Laura Ingraham happened three years ago.  I've been working a real job since September of 2008 and started working two jobs in April of 09.  You're just one big bundle of lies, eh?

 

Man, don't let some asshat troll you. We saw your interviews and know you're doing good things. Your personal life beyond that should be totally irrelevant. This guy probably thinks the Banana Man and the Tax Evader are divinely inspired or something.

 

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 Brian and Pimpingwolfwood,

 Brian and Pimpingwolfwood, I appreciate the support, thanks for saying something.  I did want you both to know though that the troll didn't bother me, just thought I should mention that I do work as it is relevant to supporters here who may wonder why I am not around as much as when I didn't.

He's trying to get under everyones skin, not just mine.  He's a walking contradiction.

 

P.S. Pimpingwolfwood, welcome aboard!

 

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Meaning_Of_Life

Meaning_Of_Life wrote:

Christopher Hitchens is a horrible human being, even by our standards.  He is rude, crass, and his entire career was built on spreading lies and misinformation about God and religion. 

Truth be told, I did not follow the Hitchens cancer story too much.  I've been too busy.

But today, I just caught the interview that he did with Anderson Cooper and I was saddened to see him in such a weak state.

I only hope that he finds it in himself to change his mind about God because unfortunately, the pain he is experiencing now will be nothing compared to what awaits him in Hell if he does not repent. 

Then again, I am sensing fear in him.  He says that he does not mind if we pray for him.  He even acknowledged that as he comes closer to death's door, his mental state will change and that he may eventually profess that he has accepted Jesus as his lord and savior so long as his mental state changes.  I think he is simply saying this to cover himself, such that he will not be remembered as a hypocrite when he passes on.  By the time he dies, he will have made amends with God while leaving room for atheists to disregard this based on what he previously stated.

There truly are no atheists in foxholes.

Sorry he scares you. I did notice that you managed to list...zero...examples of his lies and misinformation about religion.

Have many of your religion's shining lights turned Jesus into a whore they could pimp for their own gains? Yes. Has Mr. Hitchens called them on it? Again, Yes.

Let's put all your lip service aside for a bit. Would you really like to see Mr. Hitchens turn to God before he dies or would you really like God to have a closed-circuit hookup sent to you so you could watch him roast? I think you'd probably be as angry as Jonah was when he didn't get to see Nineveh get destroyed.

I don't mind if you pray for me either. To borrow from Mr. Hitchens, you could also do aerobics for me as well for all the good it might do me.

Then again, how hypocritical would that be? All those folks who have been praying imprecatory prayer against him turning around and being intercessors?

As for atheists in foxholes - you're more than likely correct. Someone had to do the fighting while the Christian soldiers prayed that God and the atheist soldier would save them.

 

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
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uuuum......pfft never mind.

uuuum......pfft never mind. It's not even worth the time. He's made it so obvious that he is only here to start arguments and piss a bunch of atheists off. You have succeeded in that mol. Now is there an actual purpose in you being here?

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Sapient wrote: Brian and

Sapient wrote:

 Brian and Pimpingwolfwood, I appreciate the support, thanks for saying something.  I did want you both to know though that the troll didn't bother me, just thought I should mention that I do work as it is relevant to supporters here who may wonder why I am not around as much as when I didn't.

He's trying to get under everyones skin, not just mine.  He's a walking contradiction.

 

P.S. Pimpingwolfwood, welcome aboard!

 

I know he tried to get under our skins. I was merely blasting his childish attempts at demonizing atheists and blasting his bad use of logic. If any of the atheists here had a nickle for every time a douche bag like this called us immoral or equated us to Hitler, we'd all make Bill Gates look like a street bum.

He is frothing at the mouth like a rabid dog because someone dared say "Your god is not real". He'd show a lot more maturity in making the attempt to debate, but this is what we have come to expect from hit and run posters.

 

 

 

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Brian37 wrote:Sapient, it

Brian37 wrote:

Sapient, it shouldn't matter if even if this was the only thing you made money off of. You provide a service that people want.

 

Seconded by Kapkao... even though I want Sapient's Jew gold!

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This actually reeks of

This actually reeks of Bullshit, in that Fundamentalist Christians dont refer to themselves as "Fundies"...

 

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Rich Woods wrote:This

Rich Woods wrote:

This actually reeks of Bullshit, in that Fundamentalist Christians dont refer to themselves as "Fundies"...

 

To quote one of my favorite Comedians, Geno Bisconte adressing a scantily clad hottie in the front row "You would never really call a whore, a whore...would you Princess?"

My guess is that was Sapient or one of the other mods, not the OP.

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 I think the original title

 I think the original title was something like "The truth about Hitchens."  I altered the title.  I'd explain my reasons, but I need to take a dump.

 

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Sapient wrote: I think the

Sapient wrote:

 I think the original title was something like "The truth about Hitchens."  I altered the title.  I'd explain my reasons, but I need to take a dump.

 

Lol. Only truth I can glean from that clown is that he's butthurt about how badly Hitchens thrashed his beliefs... And what sucks that most is that Hitchens did so honestly, while Meaning_of_idiocy had to lay the nonsense down thick to attack his target.

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*cough* MOL, do you actually

*cough*

MOL, do you actually have a video of Hitchens saying these things?

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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The thing is I used metaphor

The thing is I used metaphor in saying that if Hitchens uses the word "bullshit". I shouldn't have done that because I don't ever remember him on tv cussing about a believers claims.  So I do not want to leave believers with that impression. I do cuss when blasting religion, I have never heard of Hitchens doing such, at least not in print media or on video.

He HAS equated the Abraham God to a "cosmic dictator" and has called the idea of being constantly watched from the time we are born to the time we die with no escape from every second of our lives being recorded. He has called that a horrible concept.

And the title "God Is Not Great"(How religion poisons everything) Is an obvious criticism of religion.

So he has been a very blunt and harsh critic of god claims and religious politicing. But I should not have left people with the impression that he cusses while doing such. I was merely using the word "bullshit" as a metaphor for sheer bluntness without sugar coating an opinion. Hitchens does not sugar coat his opinions.

In any case, what people need to get from this thread, is that just because someone gives you an unfiltered opinion of the claims you make, that does NOT make them monsters merely because you don't like their word choice or delivery.

No one, on either side. Not the believer or the atheist, should want to leave the other bleeding in the street from a car accident merely because we don't like, or are offended by what the other says.

The OP is merely ignorant as to why Hitchens says what he says and is judging him, not on the content of his arguments, but on his bluntness.

I myself, when I hear believers blast me, am not concerned with them blasting me, but concerned with WHY they say what they say and the reasons behind what they say, NOT the fact   they say it.

If   the OP  WANTS to prove to us that they are not ignorant and that they are mature enough to handle blunt debate, we do want them back. But when all someone does is hit and run, they show absolute insecurity in their own position.

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Sapient wrote: I think the

Sapient wrote:

 I think the original title was something like "The truth about Hitchens."  I altered the title.  I'd explain my reasons, but I need to take a dump.

 

 

Oops... my bad.