Fact vs. Fiction

jimmy.williamson
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Fact vs. Fiction

Let us answer these questions with all the honesty we can muster...

A yes or no - Fact or Fiction

Babys are born with sinful thought.

Babys are born Atheist.

(Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist) Wikipedia

The bible is made up of true life events.

Atheist are as a rule evil people.

Evolution is made up of fact based science.

Christian believe in god.

(The concept of belief presumes a subject (the believer) and an object of belief (the proposition).So, like other  propositional attitudes, belief implies the existence of mental states and intentionality, both of which are hotly debated topics in the philosophy of mind whose foundations and relation to brain states are still controversial) Wikipedia

I know there are a lot more where these came from, but lets start with these and see where we end up.

Throughout human history as our species has faced the frighten terrorizing fact that we do not know who we are and where we are going; it has been the authority (the political, the religious, and the educational authorities) who have attempted to comfort us. By giving us order, rules, and regulation. Informing or forming in our minds their view of reality. To think for yourself you must question these authorities. THINK FOR YOURSELF…


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Judges 21:10-24 NLT So they

Judges 21:10-24 NLT

 So they sent twelve thousand warriors to Jabesh-gilead with orders to kill everyone there, including women and children. "This is what you are to do," they said. "Completely destroy all the males and every woman who is not a virgin." Among the residents of Jabesh-gilead they found four hundred young virgins who had never slept with a man, and they brought them to the camp at Shiloh in the land of Canaan. The Israelite assembly sent a peace delegation to the little remnant of Benjamin who were living at the rock of Rimmon. Then the men of Benjamin returned to their homes, and the four hundred women of Jabesh-gilead who were spared were given to them as wives. But there were not enough women for all of them. The people felt sorry for Benjamin because the LORD had left this gap in the tribes of Israel. So the Israelite leaders asked, "How can we find wives for the few who remain, since all the women of the tribe of Benjamin are dead? There must be heirs for the survivors so that an entire tribe of Israel will not be lost forever. But we cannot give them our own daughters in marriage because we have sworn with a solemn oath that anyone who does this will fall under God's curse." Then they thought of the annual festival of the LORD held in Shiloh, between Lebonah and Bethel, along the east side of the road that goes from Bethel to Shechem. They told the men of Benjamin who still needed wives, "Go and hide in the vineyards. When the women of Shiloh come out for their dances, rush out from the vineyards, and each of you can take one of them home to be your wife! And when their fathers and brothers come to us in protest, we will tell them, 'Please be understanding. Let them have your daughters, for we didn't find enough wives for them when we destroyed Jabesh-gilead. And you are not guilty of breaking the vow since you did not give your daughters in marriage to them.'" So the men of Benjamin did as they were told. They kidnapped the women who took part in the celebration and carried them off to the land of their own inheritance. Then they rebuilt their towns and lived in them. So the assembly of Israel departed by tribes and families, and they returned to their own homes. Obviously these women were repeatedly raped. These sick bastards killed and raped an entire town and then wanted more virgins, so they hid beside the road to kidnap and rape some more. How can anyone see this as anything but evil?

Numbers 31:7-18 NLT

 They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men. All five of the Midianite kings – Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba – died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho. Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded. "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.

 Deuteronomy 20:10-14

As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.

 Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT

If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

 Deuteronomy 21:10-14 NAB

"When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captive's garb. After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion."

 

CRUEL by any notion of the word.

Throughout human history as our species has faced the frighten terrorizing fact that we do not know who we are and where we are going; it has been the authority (the political, the religious, and the educational authorities) who have attempted to comfort us. By giving us order, rules, and regulation. Informing or forming in our minds their view of reality. To think for yourself you must question these authorities. THINK FOR YOURSELF…


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rebecca.williamson

rebecca.williamson wrote:

 Heres a new topic. It's sunday, why is meaning of life not in church learning more about the bible?

I've moved to a new house recently.  It is in a supposedly very conservative middle-class neighborhood across the road from a big evangelical church on a buckle of the BibleBelt.  People do not talk much to each other, and now I start wondering why.  What I see is that I do NOT see people going to church.  My neighbor's daughter drives a car with "coexist" sticker on it, most people do work a lot on Sundays.  When I just moved, I thought that maybe I should not mow on Sundays, but apparently Sunday is a mow/fix/repair/build day here.  And Saturday too, btw.  Now I wonder even more, maybe these people are atheists and they shy/afraid to talk to their neighbors presuming that they are hard-core evangelicals and fundamentalists? 

 

I know many Jews from east coast.  They take Saturdays REALLY serious, and I even respect their consistency.  Is it that Christians have weaker souls than Jews?  

 

MOL, confess, you are an atheist. 

 

 


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Well I think when "mol"

Well I think when "mol" begins to lose the wind blows his vane in another direction but I doubt he is an atheist.

Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin


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One things for sure, mention

One things for sure, mention that it's Sunday and woosh... He's gone


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jimmy.williamson wrote:One

jimmy.williamson wrote:
One things for sure, mention that it's Sunday and woosh... He's gone

I went to buy a new window unit earlier today (yea I installed it too) but on the way to get it I passed the church down the street...nothing but old people crossing the road to walk into that building with the huge shiny gold steeple. Yea I stopped so some  could cross but I was doing a tally on how many points I could have scored.

Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin


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Roflmao

Roflmao


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I'm so far behind on this

I'm so far behind on this topic I don't even know why I'm leaving this comment. I log off and we are half way down the first page. Im back and it's on page 3. I feel like a little girl trying to find a spot to jump in on hopscotch with 4 ropes going.

My Master has no desire to be merely victor in a debate: he did not come into the world to fight a battle of logic just
for the sake of winning it. --Charles Spurgeon


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Crossover wrote: I'm so far

Crossover wrote:

I'm so far behind on this topic I don't even know why I'm leaving this comment. I log off and we are half way down the first page. Im back and it's on page 3. I feel like a little girl trying to find a spot to jump in on hopscotch with 4 ropes going.

I feel the same way and it was my post

Throughout human history as our species has faced the frighten terrorizing fact that we do not know who we are and where we are going; it has been the authority (the political, the religious, and the educational authorities) who have attempted to comfort us. By giving us order, rules, and regulation. Informing or forming in our minds their view of reality. To think for yourself you must question these authorities. THINK FOR YOURSELF…


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Meaning_Of_Life wrote:But

Meaning_Of_Life wrote:

But what is more bothersome is when atheists refuse to be corrected. 

There are some, but not all. But this cuts both ways, even concerning one's belief in a deity....

Meaning_Of_Life wrote:

In essence, to the atheist, only the atheist's interpretation of the Bible is correct.

Look, there are people out there that make a living doing exegesis or studying doctrine.  There are plenty of great books out there you can buy that discuss these things.  If you truly want to understand what Christianity is about, then read those books.  Do not just read atheist websites or pick up the Bible with the sole intention of attacking it.

Why not just say, "In essence, to the Christian of variety X (Baptist, Methodist, Catholic), only variety X's interpretation of the Bible is correct."

Hermeneutics is a tough gambit for anyone and for this reason don't like to get bogged down in hermeneutical discussions concerning particular texts. When I study a particular book, whatever it may be, I read (and would hope that everyone else would read) opinions on all sides of the issue--that is not just Christian 's or atheist's perspectives. But one cannot insist on a given interpretation with any degree of certainty without making some assertions about hermeneutical processes used to obtain this. I think you'd agree with this, but don't presume (which I'm not saying you are) that atheists haven't read these things. Just because they don't agree with you does not mean that they don't understand or have not studied the text.

“Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid.”


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In most cases "cristian"

In most cases "cristian" insist that we need to read the bible for ourselves. MOL doesn't like our interpretation so he wants to read it for us. Kinda the "I'm right your wrong lalalalala!" MOL seems intolerant toward people that read it, and don't feel the same as him or her. It was reading the bible that ultimately converted me to Atheistism.

Throughout human history as our species has faced the frighten terrorizing fact that we do not know who we are and where we are going; it has been the authority (the political, the religious, and the educational authorities) who have attempted to comfort us. By giving us order, rules, and regulation. Informing or forming in our minds their view of reality. To think for yourself you must question these authorities. THINK FOR YOURSELF…


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Meaning_Of_Life wrote:Look,


Meaning_Of_Life wrote:
Look, there are people out there that make a living doing exegesis or studying doctrine.  There are plenty of great books out there you can buy that discuss these things.  If you truly want to understand what Christianity is about, then read those books.  Do not just read atheist websites or pick up the Bible with the sole intention of attacking it.

I read some exegesis once : http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/18521

It was a good read.


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So what your getting at is

So what your getting at is they don't even understand what they are reading. Or am I taking out of context.

Throughout human history as our species has faced the frighten terrorizing fact that we do not know who we are and where we are going; it has been the authority (the political, the religious, and the educational authorities) who have attempted to comfort us. By giving us order, rules, and regulation. Informing or forming in our minds their view of reality. To think for yourself you must question these authorities. THINK FOR YOURSELF…


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jimmy.williamson wrote:So

jimmy.williamson wrote:
So what your getting at is they don't even understand what they are reading. Or am I taking out of context.

I just got a bit annoyed at the suggestion that we get all our info from "atheist websites". Also, this suggests that taking any kind of "knowledge" from the bible is extremely problematic. How many times have you heard a christian claim that god created heaven and earth ? Turns out that's not what it actually says in the bible. According to the experts, that is. So what are they even talking about ?

Anyway, you probably weren't even talking to me, and it's a bit off-topic, so never mind me, carry on.


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Anonymouse

Anonymouse wrote:

jimmy.williamson wrote:
So what your getting at is they don't even understand what they are reading. Or am I taking out of context.

I just got a bit annoyed at the suggestion that we get all our info from "atheist websites". Also, this suggests that taking any kind of "knowledge" from the bible is extremely problematic. How many times have you heard a christian claim that god created heaven and earth ? Turns out that's not what it actually says in the bible. According to the experts, that is. So what are they even talking about ?

Anyway, you probably weren't even talking to me, and it's a bit off-topic, so never mind me, carry on.

I was talking to you. I just wanted you to elaborate a little. I got the point, but this post has been one with many debates. I didn't want that to get lost in text.

Throughout human history as our species has faced the frighten terrorizing fact that we do not know who we are and where we are going; it has been the authority (the political, the religious, and the educational authorities) who have attempted to comfort us. By giving us order, rules, and regulation. Informing or forming in our minds their view of reality. To think for yourself you must question these authorities. THINK FOR YOURSELF…


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I don't think I have

I don't think I have copy/pasted or used info directly from any atheist website. I usually just stick to what I know or think. I have mentioned a few things which I feel later as being redundant, nothing like mentioning something you think may be a bit original only to read something later and find it has been said before. The little moral debate which I seem to have put an abrupt end to for example. I am in the midst of reading "The End of Faith" and just happened across this section of the book today. What I'm saying has already been said bleh. There is no originality left! (His realist point of view with some exception is pretty much what I think on the subject of where morals come from and where they are going)

Sorry if I set your thread too far off course btw but you did leave it fairly open ended, too much potential in the first post for deviance from a specific point.

Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin


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no problem i enjoy the debate

no problem i enjoy the debate


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jimmy.williamson wrote:I was

jimmy.williamson wrote:

I was talking to you. I just wanted you to elaborate a little. I got the point, but this post has been one with many debates. I didn't want that to get lost in text.

Yeah, there is a lot of text on the other side of that link. I'll summarise : Respected professor teaching OT biblical exegesis claims genesis has been wrongly interpreted. "Ordinary" christians say no way.

So I guess I was also replying to the claim that "atheists refuse to be corrected" about their interpretation of the bible. I would love to be corrected, but in this case, by whom exactly ? By the expert, or by the christians who refuse to be corrected themselves ?

Anyway, methinks I'm just hammering on a point somebody else already made


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I heard once that the Yahweh

I heard once that the Yahweh actually means light. That is presuming both are true then light divided the heavens and the earth!

Throughout human history as our species has faced the frighten terrorizing fact that we do not know who we are and where we are going; it has been the authority (the political, the religious, and the educational authorities) who have attempted to comfort us. By giving us order, rules, and regulation. Informing or forming in our minds their view of reality. To think for yourself you must question these authorities. THINK FOR YOURSELF…


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ubuntuAnyone wrote:Why not

ubuntuAnyone wrote:

Why not just say, "In essence, to the Christian of variety X (Baptist, Methodist, Catholic), only variety X's interpretation of the Bible is correct."

Hermeneutics is a tough gambit for anyone and for this reason don't like to get bogged down in hermeneutical discussions concerning particular texts. When I study a particular book, whatever it may be, I read (and would hope that everyone else would read) opinions on all sides of the issue--that is not just Christian 's or atheist's perspectives. But one cannot insist on a given interpretation with any degree of certainty without making some assertions about hermeneutical processes used to obtain this. I think you'd agree with this, but don't presume (which I'm not saying you are) that atheists haven't read these things. Just because they don't agree with you does not mean that they don't understand or have not studied the text.

Atheists come in many different varieties as well.  I'm not saying that there are not intelligent atheists out there.  There are. 

But there are also the pre-pubescent I'm-rejecting-God-so-girls-will-think-I'm-cool variety.  These are the kiddies whose only understanding of God is of some mean dude in the sky who is telling them not to have sex.  They have no knowledge of philosophy, theology, world religions, or anything.  They wouldn't even be able to tell you the difference between Catholics and Protestants beyond what they can quickly read up on Wikipedia. 

I don't mind people disagreeing with me.  What offends me is when people do not know what they are talking about.  The interesting thing is that there is a larger number of intelligent atheists on Christian discussion boards than here, by far.

 

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rebecca.williamson

rebecca.williamson wrote:

 Heres a new topic. It's sunday, why is meaning of life not in church learning more about the bible?

Case in point above.

This gal here is assuming that all Christians go to church on Sunday.  She probably wasn't even aware of Seventh Day Adventism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventh-day_Adventist_Church

 

 

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Atheists do not hate that

Atheists do not hate that which does not exist. The people you are describing would be deviants who may believe a god exists but are in some odd self denial because they want to do things this god would disapprove of. I know one of this nature, shame I don't know any real atheists personally other than myself.

Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin


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Meaning_Of_Life

Meaning_Of_Life wrote:

rebecca.williamson wrote:

 Heres a new topic. It's sunday, why is meaning of life not in church learning more about the bible?

Case in point above.

This gal here is assuming that all Christians go to church on Sunday.  She probably wasn't even aware of Seventh Day Adventism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventh-day_Adventist_Church

 

 

 

Boy you just really wanna take a shot at everybody on here. Yeah , I was aware that there are. I'm aware that there are several different types of religion. My point I believe has been made. You wanna slam someone because you have really made no point yet on this thread.

If all the Christians who have called other Christians " not really a Christian " were to vanish, there'd be no Christians left.


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Meaning_Of_Life

Meaning_Of_Life wrote:

rebecca.williamson wrote:

 Heres a new topic. It's sunday, why is meaning of life not in church learning more about the bible?

Case in point above.

This gal here is assuming that all Christians go to church on Sunday.  She probably wasn't even aware of Seventh Day Adventism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventh-day_Adventist_Church

 

 

Lol, he criticizes wikipedia then posts a wikipedia link the next post.

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Hey look our village idiot

Hey look our village idiot is back!!!


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Meaning_Of_Life wrote:But

Meaning_Of_Life wrote:

But there are also the pre-pubescent I'm-rejecting-God-so-girls-will-think-I'm-cool variety.  These are the kiddies whose only understanding of God is of some mean dude in the sky who is telling them not to have sex.  

 

I am not sure how many girls (and what girls) you can attract by claiming that you are an atheist and want to have sex.  I think you know it better.

 

Meaning_Of_Life wrote:

They wouldn't even be able to tell you the difference between Catholics and Protestants beyond what they can quickly read up on Wikipedia. 

...

I don't mind people disagreeing with me.  What offends me is when people do not know what they are talking about.  

And what about you?  It seems you either have not read your bible or deny the existence/authenticity of some of its parts. 

 


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rebecca.williamson

rebecca.williamson wrote:

Meaning_Of_Life wrote:

rebecca.williamson wrote:

 Heres a new topic. It's sunday, why is meaning of life not in church learning more about the bible?

Case in point above.

This gal here is assuming that all Christians go to church on Sunday.  She probably wasn't even aware of Seventh Day Adventism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventh-day_Adventist_Church

 

 

 

Boy you just really wanna take a shot at everybody on here. Yeah , I was aware that there are. I'm aware that there are several different types of religion. My point I believe has been made. You wanna slam someone because you have really made no point yet on this thread.

 

LOL He also posted on Saturday.  So he wasn't off at church then, either.  Maybe he is B'hai - they have a holy day every 19 days.  Don't ask me why, I just know that is what my friend who is B'hai told me. 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

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Meaning_Of_Life

Meaning_Of_Life wrote:

ubuntuAnyone wrote:

Why not just say, "In essence, to the Christian of variety X (Baptist, Methodist, Catholic), only variety X's interpretation of the Bible is correct."

Hermeneutics is a tough gambit for anyone and for this reason don't like to get bogged down in hermeneutical discussions concerning particular texts. When I study a particular book, whatever it may be, I read (and would hope that everyone else would read) opinions on all sides of the issue--that is not just Christian 's or atheist's perspectives. But one cannot insist on a given interpretation with any degree of certainty without making some assertions about hermeneutical processes used to obtain this. I think you'd agree with this, but don't presume (which I'm not saying you are) that atheists haven't read these things. Just because they don't agree with you does not mean that they don't understand or have not studied the text.

Atheists come in many different varieties as well.  I'm not saying that there are not intelligent atheists out there.  There are. 

But there are also the pre-pubescent I'm-rejecting-God-so-girls-will-think-I'm-cool variety.  These are the kiddies whose only understanding of God is of some mean dude in the sky who is telling them not to have sex.  They have no knowledge of philosophy, theology, world religions, or anything.  They wouldn't even be able to tell you the difference between Catholics and Protestants beyond what they can quickly read up on Wikipedia. 

I don't mind people disagreeing with me.  What offends me is when people do not know what they are talking about.  The interesting thing is that there is a larger number of intelligent atheists on Christian discussion boards than here, by far.

 

 

 And you used wikipedia yourself in your little tantrum at me so how are you gonna come on here and talk shit about us using it when you do it? lol

So let me get this straight, are you here to mock us or to actually make a point?

If all the Christians who have called other Christians " not really a Christian " were to vanish, there'd be no Christians left.


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Hey MOL can we find a

Hey MOL can we find a different word to argue over this time. Given that the word cruel was so hard for you let us try "real". Here I will use it in a sentense for you. The "god" that you worship is not real.

Throughout human history as our species has faced the frighten terrorizing fact that we do not know who we are and where we are going; it has been the authority (the political, the religious, and the educational authorities) who have attempted to comfort us. By giving us order, rules, and regulation. Informing or forming in our minds their view of reality. To think for yourself you must question these authorities. THINK FOR YOURSELF…


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jimmy.williamson wrote:The

jimmy.williamson wrote:

The "god" that you worship is not real.

Sorry for intervening your discussion.  In general, this statement is impossible to defend unless this is not an ever-mutating Abrahamic deity but the wikipedia-derived specific "god" of MOL. 


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I know the statement can not

I know the statement can not be proven. You can not prove or disprove a negative. MOL spent a half debating the word cruel. You are missing the point. MOL can be easily distracted by shining object.

Throughout human history as our species has faced the frighten terrorizing fact that we do not know who we are and where we are going; it has been the authority (the political, the religious, and the educational authorities) who have attempted to comfort us. By giving us order, rules, and regulation. Informing or forming in our minds their view of reality. To think for yourself you must question these authorities. THINK FOR YOURSELF…


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Meaning_Of_Life

Meaning_Of_Life wrote:

Atheists come in many different varieties as well.  I'm not saying that there are not intelligent atheists out there.  There are. 

But there are also the pre-pubescent I'm-rejecting-God-so-girls-will-think-I'm-cool variety.  These are the kiddies whose only understanding of God is of some mean dude in the sky who is telling them not to have sex.  They have no knowledge of philosophy, theology, world religions, or anything.  They wouldn't even be able to tell you the difference between Catholics and Protestants beyond what they can quickly read up on Wikipedia. 

I don't mind people disagreeing with me.  What offends me is when people do not know what they are talking about.  The interesting thing is that there is a larger number of intelligent atheists on Christian discussion boards than here, by far.

Atheist do come in all shapes an sizes. They do at least have one thing in common: they don't believe in a god. Atheists will disbelieve for various reasons, of course. RRS is, as the subtitle says, a place for the activist variety that seeks to do away with "Irrational Precepts--ideas and things so ludicrous that they should be eradicated from the face of the earth...peacefully, of course." So think think you can expect some provocation on this board concerning theistic beliefs.

I've met Christians who can't tell me the difference between Protestants and Catholics...even some that had been to seminary. Scary, I know.

I'm do not think that "there is a larger number of intelligent atheists on Christian discussion boards than here" is well substantiated. Where's the statistical study to did to make this assertion? This is, of course, rhetorical. What Christian forums are you posting in so we can go there and drag down the average IQ of the atheist.

“Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid.”


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ubuntuAnyone wrote:I'm do

ubuntuAnyone wrote:

I'm do not think that "there is a larger number of intelligent atheists on Christian discussion boards than here" is well substantiated. Where's the statistical study to did to make this assertion? This is, of course, rhetorical. What Christian forums are you posting in so we can go there and drag down the average IQ of the atheist.

 

Actually, I have just discovered www.theologyonline.com and quite a few atheists there.  There is sooooo much biblical b.s. on that forum that you have to somehow lower your IQ artificially to be able to read and "contribute" to the forum for while.  

Is there an advertisement banner of RRS on www.theologyonline.com so the souls of our comrades can find the light?
 


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ubuntuAnyone wrote:Atheist

ubuntuAnyone wrote:

Atheist do come in all shapes an sizes. They do at least have one thing in common: they don't believe in a god. Atheists will disbelieve for various reasons, of course. RRS is, as the subtitle says, a place for the activist variety that seeks to do away with "Irrational Precepts--ideas and things so ludicrous that they should be eradicated from the face of the earth...peacefully, of course." So think think you can expect some provocation on this board concerning theistic beliefs.

I've met Christians who can't tell me the difference between Protestants and Catholics...even some that had been to seminary. Scary, I know.

I'm do not think that "there is a larger number of intelligent atheists on Christian discussion boards than here" is well substantiated. Where's the statistical study to did to make this assertion? This is, of course, rhetorical. What Christian forums are you posting in so we can go there and drag down the average IQ of the atheist.

There is no formal study.  I can only go by my own experience and if you go to the discussion boards at www.carm.org or www.reasonablefaith.org, you'll find that the majority of atheists there are much more articulate and well informed. 

Again, I don't mind people disagreeing with me.  You happen to be an intelligent atheist.  But the fact is, you are not in good company at this particular forum, which has become a stomping ground of the aforementioned kiddie atheists.

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Meaning_Of_Life wrote:I

Meaning_Of_Life wrote:

I don't mind people disagreeing with me.  What offends me is when people do not know what they are talking about.  The interesting thing is that there is a larger number of intelligent atheists on Christian discussion boards than here, by far.

Link please.

 


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Meaning_Of_Life wrote:But

Meaning_Of_Life wrote:

But there are also the pre-pubescent I'm-rejecting-God-so-girls-will-think-I'm-cool variety.  These are the kiddies whose only understanding of God is of some mean dude in the sky who is telling them not to have sex. 

 

I always used the atheist thing to break up with girls. Never really found it to be that great of a pick up line. 

 

Meaning_Of_Life wrote:

They have no knowledge of philosophy, theology, world religions, or anything.  They wouldn't even be able to tell you the difference between Catholics and Protestants beyond what they can quickly read up on Wikipedia. 

I don't mind people disagreeing with me.  What offends me is when people do not know what they are talking about.  The interesting thing is that there is a larger number of intelligent atheists on Christian discussion boards than here, by far.

 

I'm willing to bet donuts to dollars that your average atheist knows more about world religions in general than the average theist. While some of us might not know YOUR particular religion as well as you, most atheists have at one point or another examined the less popular non-Abrahamic religions. And why should we become experts in your fictional book? Your fiction isn't the only one in the world. And compared to other religious texts, the bible is an extremely boring read, even with all the killing, murder and mayhem. On top of that, even when we do go through the effort we are told by people like you that we obviously interpreted it wrong. 

I get bored with Christians always thinking they are the center of the universe. We need some Buddhists or Hindus to play with at least they don't want us to burn in hell for eternity. 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Meaning_Of_Life

Meaning_Of_Life wrote:

ubuntuAnyone wrote:

Atheist do come in all shapes an sizes. They do at least have one thing in common: they don't believe in a god. Atheists will disbelieve for various reasons, of course. RRS is, as the subtitle says, a place for the activist variety that seeks to do away with "Irrational Precepts--ideas and things so ludicrous that they should be eradicated from the face of the earth...peacefully, of course." So think think you can expect some provocation on this board concerning theistic beliefs.

I've met Christians who can't tell me the difference between Protestants and Catholics...even some that had been to seminary. Scary, I know.

I'm do not think that "there is a larger number of intelligent atheists on Christian discussion boards than here" is well substantiated. Where's the statistical study to did to make this assertion? This is, of course, rhetorical. What Christian forums are you posting in so we can go there and drag down the average IQ of the atheist.

There is no formal study.  I can only go by my own experience and if you go to the discussion boards at www.carm.org or www.reasonablefaith.org, you'll find that the majority of atheists there are much more articulate and well informed. 

Again, I don't mind people disagreeing with me.  You happen to be an intelligent atheist.  But the fact is, you are not in good company at this particular forum, which has become a stomping ground of the aforementioned kiddie atheists.

 

 

I would rather keep the company of uneducated incompetent Atheist, than the company of Christian scholars.

I’m sure that some of my comments posted have brought you to the conclusion that the IQ here is low than on your Christian forums. Again that does not bother me at all.

You argued the meaning of the word cruel for half a day. What was the point of this?

Further more you insist that the things in the bible are not cruel. If you replace the word god, or jesus in he bible with Obama. You would be the one yelling “he’s a cruel, sick, and twisted fuck.”

Back to the IQ level of this forum:

1. If you don’t like it get out. (statement)

2. If your education level “IQ” is so superior why even debate? (question)

Do you feel that I’m uneducated? What grade do you think I dropped out in 6th, 8th,or 11th? Or maybe I graduated after six years of collage with a degree in Civil Engineering? I mean you can tell the intelligence level of a person by their forum post right. So give it to me…. Bring your arguments to me.

I am the one that started this post. Tell me how it made you feel to type the words that child is born with sinful thoughts, intentions, or nature.

Throughout human history as our species has faced the frighten terrorizing fact that we do not know who we are and where we are going; it has been the authority (the political, the religious, and the educational authorities) who have attempted to comfort us. By giving us order, rules, and regulation. Informing or forming in our minds their view of reality. To think for yourself you must question these authorities. THINK FOR YOURSELF…


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ubuntuAnyone wrote:I've met

ubuntuAnyone wrote:

I've met Christians who can't tell me the difference between Protestants and Catholics...even some that had been to seminary. Scary, I know.

I know a couple of christians who think jews have the same exact religion (jesus) but are a different "race" that wears funny little hats.

Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin


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Meaning_Of_Life

Meaning_Of_Life wrote:

ubuntuAnyone wrote:

Atheist do come in all shapes an sizes. They do at least have one thing in common: they don't believe in a god. Atheists will disbelieve for various reasons, of course. RRS is, as the subtitle says, a place for the activist variety that seeks to do away with "Irrational Precepts--ideas and things so ludicrous that they should be eradicated from the face of the earth...peacefully, of course." So think think you can expect some provocation on this board concerning theistic beliefs.

I've met Christians who can't tell me the difference between Protestants and Catholics...even some that had been to seminary. Scary, I know.

I'm do not think that "there is a larger number of intelligent atheists on Christian discussion boards than here" is well substantiated. Where's the statistical study to did to make this assertion? This is, of course, rhetorical. What Christian forums are you posting in so we can go there and drag down the average IQ of the atheist.

There is no formal study.  I can only go by my own experience and if you go to the discussion boards at www.carm.org or www.reasonablefaith.org, you'll find that the majority of atheists there are much more articulate and well informed. 

Again, I don't mind people disagreeing with me.  You happen to be an intelligent atheist.  But the fact is, you are not in good company at this particular forum, which has become a stomping ground of the aforementioned kiddie atheists.

 

 MOL, you have just made it a point to come back to this thread after you already hijacked it to mock us. Now my point here being, you apparently have a lack of understanding our disbelief in God and you really hate the idea of anyone saying he is cruel. I'll tell you one of the reasons I don't believe in God. Plain and simple: people like you. You come here and tell us what the bible means like we can't figure that one out ourselves and you even argue some of us down to the bitter end. Only to come back and mock any credibility on our behalves. Because you high and mighty MOL apparently (but I doubt it) have some bible translater on your computer desk.

 

What gives you the idea that because we don't agree with you on God and his "word" means we are stupid? See just like you stated above that it is a fact that ubuntuAnyone is not in good company on here is the same reason I don't believe in the way christians try to make people undersatnd the bible. You have no proof that he isn't in good company therefor months down the road when someone new comes to this site and reads this thread, they will possibly be under the assumtion that we are horible people. We know we aren't but you know we are.

 

If it bothers you so much that we don't agree with you to the point that you have to insult our intelligence, maybe you should think about how immature that whole thing really was. Maybe you should also get a paper bag, cup it around your mouth and breath in and out ten times before you log on. This doesn't really have to be and insult game but you make it so easy to do so. One more thing, people tend to do that to people that brag. Theres no score card like I said before and you would't want anything off evolvefish.com anyway.

If all the Christians who have called other Christians " not really a Christian " were to vanish, there'd be no Christians left.


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Meaning_Of_Life wrote:There

Meaning_Of_Life wrote:

There is no formal study.  I can only go by my own experience and if you go to the discussion boards at www.carm.org or www.reasonablefaith.org, you'll find that the majority of atheists there are much more articulate and well informed.

Thanks for the links !

 

 

 


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This is from the carm-forum

This is from the carm-forum :

"How the CARM Atheism forum is now: Atheists outnumber theists two to one. Atheists outnumber reasonable theists at least ten to one. Further, the theists there don't make any reasonable arguments for God. So, theists lose debates and look ignorant. Weak Christians come to CARM, see this, and conclude that the case for Christianity is hopeless.

In short, the Atheism forum is basically a big deconversion engine.

How to fix it: Post that argument for God or the resurrection you've been sitting on, or make a couple of posts to test the waters.

We need strong, reasonable theists - NOW."

 

Oh dear....

 

Browsing the William Lane Craig forum now.....I'll let you know if I find anything original.

edit : No time to read the whole forum (but then, you didn't read the whole of this one), but so far, I can't really agree with you.


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Is this chick serious?

 

 So in my quest to become a more literate atheist I went to both the carm site which I was being forced to give my email to which scared me. So I proceeded to reasoablefaith.org and this is what I found.

 

 

Print | ShareThis

 

 Question:

 

 Dr. Craig, I attend Louisiana State University and I am a student worker at our school's library. Of all the people I work with, half are agnostic and the other half are atheists. I became a born again Christian a little over a year ago after five years of atheism. I have noticed many young people believe, as I used to, that religion is stupid and there is no God. I don't even mention religion to my co-workers and some simply blurt out horrible things about religion/ Christianity. I work with an Englishman who talked about his country being very nonreligious to the point where the mention of God is laughed at. America is also increasing in the number of non-believers. I am worried for our future. I don't know how to combat atheism. I am a Christian, I converted based on personal experiences, and I am not a philosopher. Atheists are grumpy and want answers, answers I don't have the time to find out. I am currently trying to earn three undergrad degrees at LSU and none of them are philosophy. How can a simple layman college student like myself become a decent defender of Christianity against these average college atheists. I will always defend my belief in Christ but they are looking for something more than what I believe. They say that believers are stupid and illogical so therefore I would like to argue based on logic and prove to them that believers aren't simply stupid. How does one who has no time to learn philosophy or read theology become a debater against these closed minded ranting non-believers?

 

 

 

Question 170

 

Sounds pretty much the same as a lot of what I read on here. She doesn't have time to read the bible yet she believes anyway due to some "personal experience". So she turns to someone who I guess she feels is smarter than herself and apparently has more time on his hands to "combat atheism". In my findings there was no evidence that anyone on these sites were smarter than we are. I do have one question that I would like answered. Why does it come down to a matter of intelligence? I think it's safe to say that it doesn't require a certain amount of intelligence to believe or not believe. The other question, is this God going to nit pick me to hell and back based on my intellect? I can't handle the pressure.

 

Subject: So Many Atheists, So Little Time!

 

If all the Christians who have called other Christians " not really a Christian " were to vanish, there'd be no Christians left.


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Anonymouse wrote:This is

Anonymouse wrote:

This is from the carm-forum :

"How the CARM Atheism forum is now: Atheists outnumber theists two to one. Atheists outnumber reasonable theists at least ten to one. Further, the theists there don't make any reasonable arguments for God. So, theists lose debates and look ignorant. Weak Christians come to CARM, see this, and conclude that the case for Christianity is hopeless.

In short, the Atheism forum is basically a big deconversion engine.

How to fix it: Post that argument for God or the resurrection you've been sitting on, or make a couple of posts to test the waters.

We need strong, reasonable theists - NOW."

 

Oh dear....

 

Browsing the William Lane Craig forum now.....I'll let you know if I find anything original.

edit : No time to read the whole forum (but then, you didn't read the whole of this one), but so far, I can't really agree with you.

Did you find the overwhelming intelligent people at these sites? I didn't, all I could find was the same old Obama is a Muslim shit that you find on most of their sites. Is that the intellect that MOL needs to feel in good company.

Throughout human history as our species has faced the frighten terrorizing fact that we do not know who we are and where we are going; it has been the authority (the political, the religious, and the educational authorities) who have attempted to comfort us. By giving us order, rules, and regulation. Informing or forming in our minds their view of reality. To think for yourself you must question these authorities. THINK FOR YOURSELF…


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rebecca.williamson

rebecca.williamson wrote:

MOL, you have just made it a point to come back to this thread after you already hijacked it to mock us. Now my point here being, you apparently have a lack of understanding our disbelief in God and you really hate the idea of anyone saying he is cruel. I'll tell you one of the reasons I don't believe in God. Plain and simple: people like you. You come here and tell us what the bible means like we can't figure that one out ourselves and you even argue some of us down to the bitter end. Only to come back and mock any credibility on our behalves. Because you high and mighty MOL apparently (but I doubt it) have some bible translater on your computer desk.

Are you claiming that atheists do not mock Christians?

This is the internet.  If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

Quote:
What gives you the idea that because we don't agree with you on God and his "word" means we are stupid? See just like you stated above that it is a fact that ubuntu. Anyone is not in good company on here is the same reason I don't believe in the way christians try to make people undersatnd the bible. You have no proof that he isn't in good company therefor months down the road when someone new comes to this site and reads this thread, they will possibly be under the assumtion that we are horible people. We know we aren't but you know we are.

Are you kidding me?  What about the prepubesecent atheists coming to this site and assuming that Christians are horrible people?

Why do you have a double standard? 

 

Banned for personal attacks. The explanation is here.


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Meaning_Of_Life

Meaning_Of_Life wrote:

rebecca.williamson wrote:

MOL, you have just made it a point to come back to this thread after you already hijacked it to mock us. Now my point here being, you apparently have a lack of understanding our disbelief in God and you really hate the idea of anyone saying he is cruel. I'll tell you one of the reasons I don't believe in God. Plain and simple: people like you. You come here and tell us what the bible means like we can't figure that one out ourselves and you even argue some of us down to the bitter end. Only to come back and mock any credibility on our behalves. Because you high and mighty MOL apparently (but I doubt it) have some bible translater on your computer desk.

Are you claiming that atheists do not mock Christians?

This is the internet.  If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

Quote:
What gives you the idea that because we don't agree with you on God and his "word" means we are stupid? See just like you stated above that it is a fact that ubuntu. Anyone is not in good company on here is the same reason I don't believe in the way christians try to make people undersatnd the bible. You have no proof that he isn't in good company therefor months down the road when someone new comes to this site and reads this thread, they will possibly be under the assumtion that we are horible people. We know we aren't but you know we are.

Are you kidding me?  What about the prepubesecent atheists coming to this site and assuming that Christians are horrible people?

Why do you have a double standard? 

 

Noooo! I did not claim that christians do not get mocked on here. They absoluely do. What double standard are you referring to because I never outright said that christians are horrible people. Both of my Grandmothers are  and were devout christians and they were not and are not horrible people. Pay more attention and don't put words in my mouth.

 

If all the Christians who have called other Christians " not really a Christian " were to vanish, there'd be no Christians left.


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Meaning_Of_Life wrote:Are

Meaning_Of_Life wrote:

Are you kidding me?  What about the prepubesecent atheists coming to this site and assuming that Christians are horrible people?

Why do you have a double standard? 

 

I asked you a couple of well-meaning questions as I was curious about how you came to certain conclusions.  Not only did you not answer, you called me elderly and uneducated.  Who is mocking whom?

I didn't assume you were a horrible person, but I have come to believe you are.

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.


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cj wrote:Meaning_Of_Life

cj wrote:

Meaning_Of_Life wrote:

Are you kidding me?  What about the prepubesecent atheists coming to this site and assuming that Christians are horrible people?

Why do you have a double standard? 

 

I asked you a couple of well-meaning questions as I was curious about how you came to certain conclusions.  Not only did you not answer, you called me elderly and uneducated.  Who is mocking whom?

I didn't assume you were a horrible person, but I have come to believe you are.

I do mock atheists.  I was just curious as to why Becky was upset about it when so many atheists do it to us.  You can only fight fire with fire.

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rebecca.williamson

rebecca.williamson wrote:

Noooo! I did not claim that christians do not get mocked on here. They absoluely do. What double standard are you referring to because I never outright said that christians are horrible people. Both of my Grandmothers are  and were devout christians and they were not and are not horrible people. Pay more attention and don't put words in my mouth

You said:

"You have no proof that he isn't in good company therefor months down the road when someone new comes to this site and reads this thread, they will possibly be under the assumtion that we are horible people."

Would you be willing to grant that someone reading this site would get the impression that Christians are horrible people?

Banned for personal attacks. The explanation is here.


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Meaning_Of_Life wrote:cj

Meaning_Of_Life wrote:

cj wrote:

Meaning_Of_Life wrote:

Are you kidding me?  What about the prepubesecent atheists coming to this site and assuming that Christians are horrible people?

Why do you have a double standard? 

 

I asked you a couple of well-meaning questions as I was curious about how you came to certain conclusions.  Not only did you not answer, you called me elderly and uneducated.  Who is mocking whom?

I didn't assume you were a horrible person, but I have come to believe you are.

I do mock atheists.  I was just curious as to why Becky was upset about it when so many atheists do it to us.  You can only fight fire with fire.

Then bring the fire to me..

You have not once come back to answer any of the follow up questions.

If your so sure of your faith then bring it to me.....

Leave my wife out of it you $%^&*&^%%$#$%^&*(*&^%$#$%^&*(*&^%$#@$%^&*( prick.....

Throughout human history as our species has faced the frighten terrorizing fact that we do not know who we are and where we are going; it has been the authority (the political, the religious, and the educational authorities) who have attempted to comfort us. By giving us order, rules, and regulation. Informing or forming in our minds their view of reality. To think for yourself you must question these authorities. THINK FOR YOURSELF…


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MOL

What bothers me the most on here is these christians that will argue about the meaning of a word, but can't take the time to defend their own statements..

If this is too much for you then leave...

Leave us to discuss real world events..

 

Throughout human history as our species has faced the frighten terrorizing fact that we do not know who we are and where we are going; it has been the authority (the political, the religious, and the educational authorities) who have attempted to comfort us. By giving us order, rules, and regulation. Informing or forming in our minds their view of reality. To think for yourself you must question these authorities. THINK FOR YOURSELF…


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Meaning_Of_Life wrote:cj

Meaning_Of_Life wrote:

cj wrote:

Meaning_Of_Life wrote:

Are you kidding me?  What about the prepubesecent atheists coming to this site and assuming that Christians are horrible people?

Why do you have a double standard? 

 

I asked you a couple of well-meaning questions as I was curious about how you came to certain conclusions.  Not only did you not answer, you called me elderly and uneducated.  Who is mocking whom?

I didn't assume you were a horrible person, but I have come to believe you are.

I do mock atheists.  I was just curious as to why Becky was upset about it when so many atheists do it to us.  You can only fight fire with fire.

 

So my question now is do you think this is what makes you so much more intellectual than me? The other is do you think your god approves of you "fighting fire with fire" with someone who hasn't said you were a horrible person as apposed to one who has? You have been the main one on this thread doing the mocking and degrading and you now want to put words in my mouth that I didn't even say because someone else put you in your place. You are absolutely one of the reasons I have so much trouble with believing there is a god. This is very hipocrytical in my opinion. Ever heard of " do unto others as you would have them do unto you"? Maybe instead of getting pissy with us about our views you should probably go ask your god for forgivness because you absolutely have been the one fighting opinions with fire.

If all the Christians who have called other Christians " not really a Christian " were to vanish, there'd be no Christians left.