Judges 21:10-24 NLT

 So they sent twelve thousand warriors to Jabesh-gilead with orders to kill everyone there, including women and children. "This is what you are to do," they said. "Completely destroy all the males and every woman who is not a virgin." Among the residents of Jabesh-gilead they found four hundred young virgins who had never slept with a man, and they brought them to the camp at Shiloh in the land of Canaan. The Israelite assembly sent a peace delegation to the little remnant of Benjamin who were living at the rock of Rimmon. Then the men of Benjamin returned to their homes, and the four hundred women of Jabesh-gilead who were spared were given to them as wives. But there were not enough women for all of them. The people felt sorry for Benjamin because the LORD had left this gap in the tribes of Israel. So the Israelite leaders asked, "How can we find wives for the few who remain, since all the women of the tribe of Benjamin are dead? There must be heirs for the survivors so that an entire tribe of Israel will not be lost forever. But we cannot give them our own daughters in marriage because we have sworn with a solemn oath that anyone who does this will fall under God's curse." Then they thought of the annual festival of the LORD held in Shiloh, between Lebonah and Bethel, along the east side of the road that goes from Bethel to Shechem. They told the men of Benjamin who still needed wives, "Go and hide in the vineyards. When the women of Shiloh come out for their dances, rush out from the vineyards, and each of you can take one of them home to be your wife! And when their fathers and brothers come to us in protest, we will tell them, 'Please be understanding. Let them have your daughters, for we didn't find enough wives for them when we destroyed Jabesh-gilead. And you are not guilty of breaking the vow since you did not give your daughters in marriage to them.'" So the men of Benjamin did as they were told. They kidnapped the women who took part in the celebration and carried them off to the land of their own inheritance. Then they rebuilt their towns and lived in them. So the assembly of Israel departed by tribes and families, and they returned to their own homes. Obviously these women were repeatedly raped. These sick bastards killed and raped an entire town and then wanted more virgins, so they hid beside the road to kidnap and rape some more. How can anyone see this as anything but evil?

Numbers 31:7-18 NLT

 They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men. All five of the Midianite kings – Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba – died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho. Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded. "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.

 Deuteronomy 20:10-14

As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.

 Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT

If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

 Deuteronomy 21:10-14 NAB

"When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captive's garb. After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion."

 

CRUEL by any notion of the word.

Well I think when "mol" begins to lose the wind blows his vane in another direction but I doubt he is an atheist.

I went to buy a new window unit earlier today (yea I installed it too) but on the way to get it I passed the church down the street...nothing but old people crossing the road to walk into that building with the huge shiny gold steeple. Yea I stopped so some  could cross but I was doing a tally on how many points I could have scored.

I'm so far behind on this topic I don't even know why I'm leaving this comment. I log off and we are half way down the first page. Im back and it's on page 3. I feel like a little girl trying to find a spot to jump in on hopscotch with 4 ropes going.

There are some, but not all. But this cuts both ways, even concerning one's belief in a deity....

Why not just say, "In essence, to the Christian of variety X (Baptist, Methodist, Catholic), only variety X's interpretation of the Bible is correct."

Hermeneutics is a tough gambit for anyone and for this reason don't like to get bogged down in hermeneutical discussions concerning particular texts. When I study a particular book, whatever it may be, I read (and would hope that everyone else would read) opinions on all sides of the issue--that is not just Christian 's or atheist's perspectives. But one cannot insist on a given interpretation with any degree of certainty without making some assertions about hermeneutical processes used to obtain this. I think you'd agree with this, but don't presume (which I'm not saying you are) that atheists haven't read these things. Just because they don't agree with you does not mean that they don't understand or have not studied the text.

I read some exegesis once : http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/18521

It was a good read.

I just got a bit annoyed at the suggestion that we get all our info from "atheist websites". Also, this suggests that taking any kind of "knowledge" from the bible is extremely problematic. How many times have you heard a christian claim that god created heaven and earth ? Turns out that's not what it actually says in the bible. According to the experts, that is. So what are they even talking about ?

Anyway, you probably weren't even talking to me, and it's a bit off-topic, so never mind me, carry on.

I don't think I have copy/pasted or used info directly from any atheist website. I usually just stick to what I know or think. I have mentioned a few things which I feel later as being redundant, nothing like mentioning something you think may be a bit original only to read something later and find it has been said before. The little moral debate which I seem to have put an abrupt end to for example. I am in the midst of reading "The End of Faith" and just happened across this section of the book today. What I'm saying has already been said bleh. There is no originality left! (His realist point of view with some exception is pretty much what I think on the subject of where morals come from and where they are going)

Sorry if I set your thread too far off course btw but you did leave it fairly open ended, too much potential in the first post for deviance from a specific point.

Yeah, there is a lot of text on the other side of that link. I'll summarise : Respected professor teaching OT biblical exegesis claims genesis has been wrongly interpreted. "Ordinary" christians say no way.

So I guess I was also replying to the claim that "atheists refuse to be corrected" about their interpretation of the bible. I would love to be corrected, but in this case, by whom exactly ? By the expert, or by the christians who refuse to be corrected themselves ?

Anyway, methinks I'm just hammering on a point somebody else already made

Atheists come in many different varieties as well.  I'm not saying that there are not intelligent atheists out there.  There are. 

But there are also the pre-pubescent I'm-rejecting-God-so-girls-will-think-I'm-cool variety.  These are the kiddies whose only understanding of God is of some mean dude in the sky who is telling them not to have sex.  They have no knowledge of philosophy, theology, world religions, or anything.  They wouldn't even be able to tell you the difference between Catholics and Protestants beyond what they can quickly read up on Wikipedia. 

I don't mind people disagreeing with me.  What offends me is when people do not know what they are talking about.  The interesting thing is that there is a larger number of intelligent atheists on Christian discussion boards than here, by far.

 

Atheists do not hate that which does not exist. The people you are describing would be deviants who may believe a god exists but are in some odd self denial because they want to do things this god would disapprove of. I know one of this nature, shame I don't know any real atheists personally other than myself.

Lol, he criticizes wikipedia then posts a wikipedia link the next post.

 

I am not sure how many girls (and what girls) you can attract by claiming that you are an atheist and want to have sex.  I think you know it better.

 

And what about you?  It seems you either have not read your bible or deny the existence/authenticity of some of its parts. 

 

 

 And you used wikipedia yourself in your little tantrum at me so how are you gonna come on here and talk shit about us using it when you do it? lol

So let me get this straight, are you here to mock us or to actually make a point?

Sorry for intervening your discussion.  In general, this statement is impossible to defend unless this is not an ever-mutating Abrahamic deity but the wikipedia-derived specific "god" of MOL. 

Atheist do come in all shapes an sizes. They do at least have one thing in common: they don't believe in a god. Atheists will disbelieve for various reasons, of course. RRS is, as the subtitle says, a place for the activist variety that seeks to do away with "Irrational Precepts--ideas and things so ludicrous that they should be eradicated from the face of the earth...peacefully, of course." So think think you can expect some provocation on this board concerning theistic beliefs.

I've met Christians who can't tell me the difference between Protestants and Catholics...even some that had been to seminary. Scary, I know.

I'm do not think that "there is a larger number of intelligent atheists on Christian discussion boards than here" is well substantiated. Where's the statistical study to did to make this assertion? This is, of course, rhetorical. What Christian forums are you posting in so we can go there and drag down the average IQ of the atheist.

There is no formal study.  I can only go by my own experience and if you go to the discussion boards at www.carm.org or www.reasonablefaith.org, you'll find that the majority of atheists there are much more articulate and well informed. 

Again, I don't mind people disagreeing with me.  You happen to be an intelligent atheist.  But the fact is, you are not in good company at this particular forum, which has become a stomping ground of the aforementioned kiddie atheists.

 

I always used the atheist thing to break up with girls. Never really found it to be that great of a pick up line. 

 

I'm willing to bet donuts to dollars that your average atheist knows more about world religions in general than the average theist. While some of us might not know YOUR particular religion as well as you, most atheists have at one point or another examined the less popular non-Abrahamic religions. And why should we become experts in your fictional book? Your fiction isn't the only one in the world. And compared to other religious texts, the bible is an extremely boring read, even with all the killing, murder and mayhem. On top of that, even when we do go through the effort we are told by people like you that we obviously interpreted it wrong. 

I get bored with Christians always thinking they are the center of the universe. We need some Buddhists or Hindus to play with at least they don't want us to burn in hell for eternity. 

I know a couple of christians who think jews have the same exact religion (jesus) but are a different "race" that wears funny little hats.

Thanks for the links !

 

 

 

 

 So in my quest to become a more literate atheist I went to both the carm site which I was being forced to give my email to which scared me. So I proceeded to reasoablefaith.org and this is what I found.

 

 

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 Question:

 

 Dr. Craig, I attend Louisiana State University and I am a student worker at our school's library. Of all the people I work with, half are agnostic and the other half are atheists. I became a born again Christian a little over a year ago after five years of atheism. I have noticed many young people believe, as I used to, that religion is stupid and there is no God. I don't even mention religion to my co-workers and some simply blurt out horrible things about religion/ Christianity. I work with an Englishman who talked about his country being very nonreligious to the point where the mention of God is laughed at. America is also increasing in the number of non-believers. I am worried for our future. I don't know how to combat atheism. I am a Christian, I converted based on personal experiences, and I am not a philosopher. Atheists are grumpy and want answers, answers I don't have the time to find out. I am currently trying to earn three undergrad degrees at LSU and none of them are philosophy. How can a simple layman college student like myself become a decent defender of Christianity against these average college atheists. I will always defend my belief in Christ but they are looking for something more than what I believe. They say that believers are stupid and illogical so therefore I would like to argue based on logic and prove to them that believers aren't simply stupid. How does one who has no time to learn philosophy or read theology become a debater against these closed minded ranting non-believers?

 

 

 

Question 170

 

Sounds pretty much the same as a lot of what I read on here. She doesn't have time to read the bible yet she believes anyway due to some "personal experience". So she turns to someone who I guess she feels is smarter than herself and apparently has more time on his hands to "combat atheism". In my findings there was no evidence that anyone on these sites were smarter than we are. I do have one question that I would like answered. Why does it come down to a matter of intelligence? I think it's safe to say that it doesn't require a certain amount of intelligence to believe or not believe. The other question, is this God going to nit pick me to hell and back based on my intellect? I can't handle the pressure.

 

Subject: So Many Atheists, So Little Time!

 

Are you claiming that atheists do not mock Christians?

This is the internet.  If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

Are you kidding me?  What about the prepubesecent atheists coming to this site and assuming that Christians are horrible people?

Why do you have a double standard? 

 

 

I asked you a couple of well-meaning questions as I was curious about how you came to certain conclusions.  Not only did you not answer, you called me elderly and uneducated.  Who is mocking whom?

I didn't assume you were a horrible person, but I have come to believe you are.

You said:

"You have no proof that he isn't in good company therefor months down the road when someone new comes to this site and reads this thread, they will possibly be under the assumtion that we are horible people."

Would you be willing to grant that someone reading this site would get the impression that Christians are horrible people?

What bothers me the most on here is these christians that will argue about the meaning of a word, but can't take the time to defend their own statements..

If this is too much for you then leave...

Leave us to discuss real world events..