Anyone Know A Christian Who is Nicer, Kinder, More Generous, More Honest Than They Are?
Posted on: June 21, 2010 - 7:51am
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Anyone Know A Christian Who is Nicer, Kinder, More Generous, More Honest Than They Are?
The god folk delight in moral condescension but have any of us known christians (or muslims, whatever), who were actually seriously righteous? Truly good? Wondrously gentle, kind and loving? Were they all just people who thought they were forgiven for perceived crimes, or had godliness given them a leg up in the civilisation stakes?
I'll go first. Ummm. No. I don't know any christians who are intrinsically better than I am - and when I say better I am talking about impossible to measure gradations of the endlessly subjective moral code of humanity.
Anyone else?
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
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Maternal Great Grandmother, Hester Hill- about as selfless as it got, but still 1 in a 1000000
I know a few that meet all the criteria but the honest one, I'm like an honest bully. I suppose if looked at through a prism you could say their honesty level is better because they will lie to spare feelings, I usually don't.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
What would be the point???
“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)
Bishop Desmond Tutu might be a nicer guy than I am, or that could just be good P.R.
I can't think of any Christians I know personally who are more "moral" than I am. I'm much more honest and decent now than I was when I was a Southern Baptist, North Carolina, buckle on the Bible Belt, halleluyah!
http://www.michaeledits.com You can't eat grits with chopsticks
The realization that on occasion you have to play along, to get along.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
Jesus, naturally. But he's a fictitious character.
Which is irrelevant (to me) either way. Very little about life is a 'popularity contest'.
“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)
Most christians may be better than me at adhering to their virtues of generosity, niceness, humility, homophobia, chastity, ignorance, obediance etc but that doesn't make them better people.
I Am My God
The absence of evidence IS evidence of absence
what you're describing is more moral condescension than it is moral superiority?
Being so cool and popular carries a large fee in many situations and I am often unwilling to pay.
It's akin to being rich and everyone knows it so you seem obligated to tip large.
Now back to reality, I was talking about how to not piss people off who can potentially cause a major problem in your life. You know like, don't tell your boss he's an asshole or ...yea you get it now.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
I know of at least two Christians who are nicer, kinder, more generous, and more honest than I am. And I've never seen either of them be morally condescending (or condescending in any way) let alone delight in it. In fact, one of them is the nicest person I've ever met. The other one's probably not that far behind. And if we're basing "better" on morality, then, yeah, I'd say they're better than me. I don't really measure people that way, and I certainly don't aspire to become them. But they are nicer than me. Hands down.
Oh, yeah, there were a number of Christians I knew in New Zealand who were nicer than me. And one of my roommates in college. I'm sure if I thought about it longer, I could come up with more.
I've known significantly more Christians than other religious groups (so all my submissions are Christians), and I've known nicer people whose religious affiliation I was unaware of.
Rill
Offhand, the only religious people I know are my family. I would say that some of them are more selfless than I am, but that doesn't necessarily make them better.
I will also throw up the unoriginal idea that many atheists are very ethical since they've had to construct their ethics from scratch. This can lead to a moral obligation to be better than the religious.
Evil atheists are hardly unknown of course.
fluffy fundy christian will insist we suffer eternal damnation for not agreeing with their unprovable opinion. Now, this damnation may not be true but they believe it is and yet worship their 'merciful' father. To me, this position is profoundly immoral. I can't imagine worshipping a torturing mass murderer for promising to let me off but they go even further and say they 'love' him. Is it possible to be a good person and hold such a position?
I'm not sure if christianity is a ritualized expression of stockhom syndrome but it might be...
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
I think there are probably many christians who are "good" people simply for fear of hell. I also think there are a few who would claim atheism because they simply are in "denial" because they want to be able to do bad things but they actually believe in the fairy tale. Probably uncommon but I "imagine" a few do exist.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
I was actually up for "Humanitarian of the Year" once... But that no good double crossing Bitch Mother Theresa beat me out...
I have stated before, that if Christianity is less about words, and more about living our daily lives with compassion (as that Jesus fella allegedly did )... Then the most Christian people I have ever met are Atheists...
www.RichWoodsBlog.com
Religious morality is basically you must respect invisible beings but you can treat real world beings like shit as long as Mr. Invisible approves. Theist always invent a god of convenience. So there morality is really just doing whatever is convenient for themselves while being deluded into thinking they are more righteous.
And if one only does or does not do something to impress an all powerful being, isn't religious morality just 'Might makes right'? Nothing god does can be judged immoral only because he has the power to send people to heaven or hell.
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
This probably applies to any religious position. Could almost go so far as to say that it applies to any blind acceptance of authority.
I have a friend is an strict Muslim, and he would give you the shirt off his back too. Is he this way because he is religious? I dunno.
However, I don't think that righteousness (in the sense of living morally and loving one's neighbor) is the sole property of religious folks though.
“Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid.”
My dad.
Actually, I know a lot of people who are nicer/better than I am. But I know secular people who are better than I am too...I don't go out of my way to help other people, I am too lazy.
Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.
Being nice to the GF/Fiance/Wife/potential twink date, any future offspring, and going the extra mile at work to please the boss and pursue opportunity... is completely different than not giving a shit what strangers, relatives, neighbors, co-workers, house maids, gov't employees and law-enforcement officers think about you or your point(s) of view.
And alas, unless it's Blake, WTD, yourself, Answers, CJ, Sapient, B166ER, AE, Bobspence1, Ken, Pineapple, TDS, Exc, ZuS, A_Nony, Zanarkand, or Greek Goddess... I'm probably not going to give a shit how my viewpoints are received by others.
It's not my job to be "well received" by my audience, and if I think your ideas suck, you'll no doubt be told about it!
Unless it's an Alpha Male Robj101 sexually harassing one of the theists that post here. Then it's just plain LOL.
In short, I am what happens to kids who are born to OCD people-pleasers. Believe me on this; if my collar wasn't adjusted just right or my hair had a cow-lick or if there was dirt/grit under my fingernails, my parents would be the 1st to make a scene about it and the people they would try to present me to would be the last to actually give a shit. So here I am, not actually giving a shit.
“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)
My mother is beyond a shadow of a doubt the most honest, moral person I have ever met. I simply have never seen her be evil in any way. She is the model of what Christians wish they were. It upsets her terribly that I am an Atheist, and I must admit to not being a very good representative of our cause due to my innate knuckleheadedness. I try to tell her she would be a good person without faith but she thinks morality is handed down from God. She has lymphoma and when she dies this world will be diminished by half...
There are those among us who care TOO MUCH about what people think, including others on this internet forum. You know, the people who sit silent on a topic because they would rather not insert an opinion that might somehow damage their credibility or piss people off.
But people in general don't seem to care at all outside of their own little world.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
RE:Cajones,
You could just tell her you simply don't actually give a (insert swear here) about Skydaddy jr. and company.
That brings up another thing about me: I'm the *worst* kind of atheist simply because I'm so apathetic and ambiguous to religion!
If someone says "Convert or Die", I would probably choose to live (depending on circumstances and the social stature of my assailant). If I lived in Feudal Europe, I would pay lip service to Catholicism and the local priests just long enough to attain my own lordship, significant fiefs, peasant/plebian workers, vassals, squires, and of course, *warriors* so that I could at least live a Xtian life of medieval luxury, and maybe even lay the foundations for a future empire.
“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)
I have fantasised about turning up during some great heretical hearing and interrupting proceedings with a tommy gun.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
Everyone seemed to care when RDN went out-of-order or "FUBAR"- none the least of which was Natural, who seemed to believe that the operators and and owners of popular internet forums are somehow socially obligated to actually give a damn about the millions of users visiting their website - a la Brian Sapient*.
So yeah -when the general harmony outside of our world gets disrupted, people usually take notice, particularly those individuals who have some general hang-up about 'even-handedness' or 'keeping things fair'.
In my case, both of those aims are irrelevant to my worldview. 'Right' and 'Wrong' is often irrelevant. What use is morality if it simply hinders an individual's capacity for excellence?
“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)
Yea but that could be considered a part of their little world eh. I know some simple people and they don't give a carp about anything that does not directly affect their little box. 9/11 happens for example they might say, "aww thats too bad..wheres my beer." They really don't care..untill gas prices begin to rise, now they suddenly care about that, but again it's is something that is making a direct impact on their life. As I talk to more people about atheism for example, I find a complete lack of care. They remain religious because it is easier, thinking is a problem and it will affect their little world, oh noes.
You are talking of people like yourself and I, who seem to care for some odd reason about the outside world, our future and the future of people we might care about.
Yea, there are a few people I care about, suprise motherfuckers!
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin
+1
the fear of hell works miracles unless your god tells to you to kill
I think you missed the 'forest' of my post for one, dried-up husk of a tree.
Which is just fine, only you might want to re-read my previous post until you get the general "thrust" of it.
“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)
Mayhap, I always liked that word.
Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin