Astrology reading of No More Crazy People by Luminon

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Astrology reading of No More Crazy People by Luminon

So I got both the reading and the bio, so we'll see if Luminon is really an astrology

 

Sorry for the fromating, as I simply copied and pasted the e-mails.

 

Reading

 

Luminon wrote:

 

Here is the text, Cpt. When you receive NMCP's text, post them together somewhere for everyone to see. And we'll see, how these chaotic impressions from a newbie amateur astrologer will stand up to standards of critical thinkers. Thanks for your assistance! Smiling

 

********************************************************

You will probably think that I'm kidding you, but I see the a similar thing to Jonathan. Your horoscope is also dominated by ideologic conflict, with opposing groups of planets between Saggitarius and Gemini. It's quite a big coincidence, because the opposing planets are the fast ones, Mercury, Sun and Venus.

 

But his problem is strictly concentrated to the ideologic area of life. With you, it is how you relate to other people, it gets into relationships very easily. Some people might go on academic grounds, have fiery disputes there, and then go home and do something else. I suspect this is not your case, the learning, philosophy, and atheism is rooted deeply in what you are and how you treat others. This is where you get your self-value from.

 

You're very interested in other people and also ideals. That might drive you away from what you really feel. If you don't have anyone around to talk with, you might feel a sense of inner emptiness. It may lead to forgetting your own problems or inappropriate sticking your nose into other people's affairs. (Sun in 7th house) You seem to be relatively emotionally sensitive man. You often got into conflict with your family or people in general because of ideologies. Religion, atheism, and the like. Your opinions on that matter are too revolutionary for their taste, but that's what you are. (1st house, conjunction of Luna and Uranus) The way you spoke to people about their and your ideologies, irritates them very much. You might be too scholarly and intellectual for their tastes. (Luna and Uranus opposed by Mercury in Gemini) When it comes to words and ideas, talking about the religion in light of reason, you're very non-conformistic. (opposition Uranus - Mercury, in Saggitarius and Gemini) So much, that your family may get upset. (opposition Luna-Mercury) This might also mean that you take all of this very personally and emotionally, since it's the 1st house.

 

The problem is, you will not be likely to do anything about it. This opposition is badly aspected by Lilith on both sides. It's a karmic relationship. In some past lives you might be the zealous preacher in your family who bended the weak minds and flocked the believing sheep. Now they give it back to you, what you taught them. You'd have better accept the fact how your family is so strongly indoctrinated, you did too much of a good job in your past life. Now accept them as they are.

 

With Lilith in Pisces it's obvious you've been very wrong in past lives about all things religious, but thanks to 3rd house you communicated and taught that to people nonetheless. No wonder it causes your problems today.

 

Overall, Chiron in Gemini, your old wound well symbolizes the deep crisis of dualism. Whatever extreme action you do, it has an equally opposite response. What is bound by form and convention will be violently broken - in your case it may be relationship with other people or at work. You did a lot to get out of static conventions. Before you managed that, you might have a tendence to escape into inner world... So you surely understand now how other people feel in similar situation. You might be able to counsel them.

 

Here it's a bit personal remark, but despite of me being all spiritual and stuff, I don't believe in dualism. For me, science and religion are two of many fundamental aspects of one world, and they should not be in opposition. There is a fundamental uniting factor that should set the pace of everything. Dualism is therefore not absolute.  Maybe you could consider this worldview a little. Don't change people according to your worldview, because by that you take a responsibility for what they have become. It's better to let them become diverse, although it's more diffcult on diplomatic skills.

 

No wonder, that as far as you're concerned, spiritual and mystical things are bullshit and you'd like to make others understand that. (Neptune in Capricorn opposed by Sun in Gemini) You might get quite passionate and authoritative about this opinion of yours. (conjunction of Sun and Venus in Gemini)

 

And yet, you would like very much to help others understand what the world is about. Perhaps you're not so aware of it, but you dig into other people's spiritual feelings and beliefs, if you find yourself in a company or group. A good psychologist, even if maybe sometimes unwelcomed and patronizing. (conjunction Mars-Saturn in Scorpio) It may be a humanitarian reflex, to save a person that's drowning in delusion. It might help if you do it very carefully and consciously, in official and decent manner. Make sure you don't sacrifice yourself for the group's sake.

 

My advice is, when you are with those you care about, abandon the ideologic conflicts. It's your old wound and karmically burdened. You might be wrong, maybe not in your truth, but in the way you communicate it to them, so be careful. You might make it up by an actual caring about people, leading them, coaching them, showing them the broader image. But don't forget, you are on their side, for their own good. In your place I would take a great care to not let myself be oppressed, that would take some willpower. But the same trick is to not oppress others, specially if they don't share your religious and academic opinions. That might help when dealing with people. It looks like your situation might get better rather by doing activism, than by talking and lecturing.

 

In ideal case you might become optimistic, easygoing and tolerant to others. Your dream occupation could be about settling disputes among people, rather than creating them. This will be by method of approaching the less developed and educated members of society, and learning them by example of your life and in small steps, one after another. Don't expect any big steps, they're like children in that are, or that's literally work with children.

 

As for having relationship, your partner must obviously offer an enjoyable and intelligent talk, I know what you mean, I'm not so different. (Prometheus-type Mercury in 7th house Gemini) Generally, for the type of people like you, make sure you won't become equally dogmatic as the people who are dogmatic towards you. It's the principle from people who stagger in extremes from incarnation to incarnation. Who was a fervent believer in some previous life, then recognized that faith is bullshit and how he might be equally fervent atheist or anti-theist. The golden middle way is the correct way.

 

I think, despite of your ideologic problems, you have a potential for some spiritual, or better said humanistic efforts. These can be used regardless of any ideology, but to propagate an enlightened approach to life. To show people how to not be a sheep in the flock, but an active human being in collective. If you will become less harsh to people, but also less timid, you might become a great inspiration for the common folks. The more self-esteem you will have, the more easy will that be. But to unlock that potential you'd have to be consciously more tolerant to your surroundings. You might already realize, that making mistakes is human.

 

 

 

 

NMCP bio

 

 

NoMoreCrazyPeople wrote:

 

Family/Religious History:

   I was raised in a Jehovah's Witness family of 5 at first,
my parents and my 2 sisters.  The younger of the 2 was born
with down syndrome and leukemia.  She was in and out of the
hospital until she died ironically in the very blood transfusion my
mother so colourfully protested.  My dad was "moderately" abusive (weekly beatings and drunken antics) but wasn't a very bad man or
anything.  My mom is a nice lady, but very strange and passively
judgemental, I don't have much of a relationship with either of
my parents.  My sister however is one of my best friends and
I see her and her kids every month or so.  I was always creeped out
by the cult I was raised in, since I could remember I hated it.   


Interests/hobbies/skills:

  Music is #1 on that list.  I've been playing the piano for 20
years, I have a little studio in my room.  I also use to sell
my graphite portraits and have been doing professional drawing
for about 10 years.  MMA!!!  I love to watch fighting, I have no
interest in fighting on the street but I love to spar and If I
had some more time for training I would love to get in the ring. 
Travelling:  I backpacked through Auz for a year and then thailand for month .  I live near the city because I was born here and my friends
and family are here but I'm a country boy, or even more so
an Island boy at heart.  I'm drawn to Islands everywhere I travelled
I was always ending up on islands. I'm a finishing carpenter by trade, and I've always built things ever since I was a kid.  First I was a lego maniac, then a saw and drill maniac.


Personality traits:

 I have some relationship problems still I guess left over from my strange upbringing and the family I learned my values from, or so my girlfriend tells me.  I keep most things in my life private, and deal with almost eveything internally. I certainly seem to behave a little different
than most of my friends in general in how they keep in contact with eachtother and how they seem to communincate more frequently.  I'm more of the vanish for a month, and pop back up type.  I have problems with all and any sort of "ouchie bouchie" stair into eachother
eyes fluff, It just doesn't work for me.  I'm the type to burst out laughing in the midst of the slightest bit of corniness. For me sarcasm is foreplay. 

  I like adventure, big adventure, big risk, I wish I had more time and money to have more adventures. I guess you could say I have problems with moderation, but I'm not an addict of any real sort, If i'm addicted to anything it's excitement, and If i don't have large doses of it I tend to turn to worse ways of getting it.  I have the need to
 continue to take risks to stay excited, I get bored very quickly.  I tried
to volunteer at a tiger sanctuary in Toronto fixing the cages and working directly with the big cats just to get the rush of being in a cage with a even feeding an 800lbs siberian.  But sadly they were filled when I flew there.  This is one thing I will do one day.
 

  When I was in Australia and I saw an eastern brown snake
my instant thought was "must catch it and get a picture" (I have lot's of experience handling venomous snakes) while all the farmers and fruit pickers I was with thought I was completely insane and after I let it go the farmers beat it to death with a stick.  But I'm also very laid back and some what of and hippie.  So in that way I guess my persoanlity is somewhat of an oxymoron, I'm a layed back thrill seeking hippie, strange but its the best way I can explain it.  I want to go shark diving in the day and chill in a hamic and listen to Bob Marley on the beach at night.    

    I just hammered out my first real estate deal, found a money partner and we just bought a fixer upper I'm going to do all the work on in
the next 2 months.  So I guess you would say I certainly have the
entrepeneurial spirit, I'm always designing inventions and business models, and sending proposals to investors.  This is the first time I was able to get serious funding (500k) for one of my propositions.  I guess you could say I was a little scared of actually getting funding over the last 5 years and probably sabotaged myself subcontiaously a little by not being as proactive as I could have been, but now I'm ready.

Strengths:
Determination, confidence, creativity, imagination

Weaknessness:
Arrogance, not being able to focus, externally expressing emotions.   

 

 

 

 


zarathustra
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The sun is a fast planet?

The sun is a fast planet?


Whatthedeuce
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Ummm. Perhaps, I don't

Ummm. Perhaps, I don't understand what astrology is, but I was under the impression that you were supposed to be able to give him more information than just a restatement of his self description and some speculations about what the description might imply. It seems like everything you said about him could have been inferred from his biography without any knowledge of his birth time and place.

I don't understand why the Christians I meet find it so confusing that I care about the fact that they are wasting huge amounts of time and resources playing with their imaginary friend. Even non-confrontational religion hurts atheists because we live in a society which is constantly wasting resources and rejecting rational thinking.


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Whatthedeuce wrote:Ummm.

Whatthedeuce wrote:

Ummm. Perhaps, I don't understand what astrology is, but I was under the impression that you were supposed to be able to give him more information than just a restatement of his self description and some speculations about what the description might imply. It seems like everything you said about him could have been inferred from his biography without any knowledge of his birth time and place.

 

I thought Luminon didn't have the bio before the reading?


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No offense Luminon, but

No offense Luminon, but consider me underwhelmed.  This is a bunch of mights and maybes focused purely on personality issues that are fully apparent to anyone who has read any of his posts, and even at that I don't see anything that is particularly insightful.  No-one even imposed controls on this little test, I was at least curious if you could data-mine the net and find some hard data on him.

 

I was hoping for something more wootastic.

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


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Blake wrote:I thought

Blake wrote:

I thought Luminon didn't have the bio before the reading?

 

O, yea that is true, however, given only just the posts made by NoMoreCrazyPeople in the thread which this horoscope was set up, there is still enough information to conclude everything Luminon said about him.

 

Here are two descriptions that NMCP gave about himself in the thread this horoscope reading was set up. We know that Luminon has at least read these two statements because (shortly before writing this horoscope) he directly replied to the posts in which they were made.

 

NoMoreCrazyPeople wrote:

 I really tried to find some evidence for supernatural activities/powers people had in my life.  I met falung gong practitioners who claimed to do many things (live hundreds of years/fly/move things without physically touching them etc...)  but in the end nothing was ever shown to be true

NoMoreCrazyPeople wrote:

I was raised strickly religious, I also strongly disagree with what my parents taught me

 

 

I don't see anything that Luminon said that wasn't either completely speculative or something that follows from those two statements and a little bit of knowledge of American culture.


 

 

I don't understand why the Christians I meet find it so confusing that I care about the fact that they are wasting huge amounts of time and resources playing with their imaginary friend. Even non-confrontational religion hurts atheists because we live in a society which is constantly wasting resources and rejecting rational thinking.


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Whatthedeuce wrote:Blake

Whatthedeuce wrote:

Blake wrote:

I thought Luminon didn't have the bio before the reading?

 

O, yea that is true, however, given only just the posts made by NoMoreCrazyPeople in the thread which this horoscope was set up, there is still enough information to conclude everything Luminon said about him.

 

Here are two descriptions that NMCP gave about himself in the thread this horoscope reading was set up. We know that Luminon has at least read these two statements because (shortly before writing this horoscope) he directly replied to the posts in which they were made.

 

NoMoreCrazyPeople wrote:

 I really tried to find some evidence for supernatural activities/powers people had in my life.  I met falung gong practitioners who claimed to do many things (live hundreds of years/fly/move things without physically touching them etc...)  but in the end nothing was ever shown to be true

NoMoreCrazyPeople wrote:

I was raised strickly religious, I also strongly disagree with what my parents taught me

 

 

I don't see anything that Luminon said that wasn't either completely speculative or something that follows from those two statements and a little bit of knowledge of American culture.


 

 

 

 

Most of what was in his bio has been posted in other threads anyway.  NMC has written about his family and religious background more than once.

 

NMC's bio did list many new things I didn't know, but none of that appears in what Luminon wrote.  I'm interested to see what NMC thinks.

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


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mellestad wrote:Whatthedeuce

mellestad wrote:

Whatthedeuce wrote:

Blake wrote:

I thought Luminon didn't have the bio before the reading?

 

O, yea that is true, however, given only just the posts made by NoMoreCrazyPeople in the thread which this horoscope was set up, there is still enough information to conclude everything Luminon said about him.

 

Here are two descriptions that NMCP gave about himself in the thread this horoscope reading was set up. We know that Luminon has at least read these two statements because (shortly before writing this horoscope) he directly replied to the posts in which they were made.

 

NoMoreCrazyPeople wrote:

 I really tried to find some evidence for supernatural activities/powers people had in my life.  I met falung gong practitioners who claimed to do many things (live hundreds of years/fly/move things without physically touching them etc...)  but in the end nothing was ever shown to be true

NoMoreCrazyPeople wrote:

I was raised strickly religious, I also strongly disagree with what my parents taught me

 

 

I don't see anything that Luminon said that wasn't either completely speculative or something that follows from those two statements and a little bit of knowledge of American culture.


 

 

 

 

Most of what was in his bio has been posted in other threads anyway.  NMC has written about his family and religious background more than once.

 

NMC's bio did list many new things I didn't know, but none of that appears in what Luminon wrote.  I'm interested to see what NMC thinks.

I'm letting everyone have a go before I say anything.


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I also don't see the point

I also don't see the point in talking about past lives.  Since there's no proof of past lives in the first place, it would be meaningless even if NMCP included something about past lives in his bio, and the reading matched perfectly.  

It's about as useful as Sylvia Brown telling clients the names of their guardian angels.   

There are no theists on operating tables.

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mellestad wrote:No offense

mellestad wrote:
No offense Luminon, but consider me underwhelmed.  This is a bunch of mights and maybes focused purely on personality issues that are fully apparent to anyone who has read any of his posts, and even at that I don't see anything that is particularly insightful.  No-one even imposed controls on this little test, I was at least curious if you could data-mine the net and find some hard data on him.

 

I was hoping for something more wootastic.


I'm sorry to disappoint you, but I study astrology, not data mining and postology. I don't know how to make a horoscope by not making it, but by reading what the people write. I read many people's posts, without bothering to make an opinion about them. Honestly, I didn't bother with cheating and reading previous NMCP's posts, it's not like my life would depend on it.

Also, the way how one presents or sees himself, may not be the whole truth about his personality. You should see me on the woo forums, I'm the voice of reason and doubt there. (yes, even woo needs reasoning)

My dad as a professional would put your in awe... But only you and your close family or friends, because other people don't know you so well. Similarly, I'm very curious what will NMCP say, he's the one who is most able to evaluate it.

zarathustra wrote:

I also don't see the point in talking about past lives.  Since there's no proof of past lives in the first place, it would be meaningless even if NMCP included something about past lives in his bio, and the reading matched perfectly.  

It's about as useful as Sylvia Brown telling clients the names of their guardian angels.   

My dad's astrologic school works with past lives quite a lot, some elements in horoscope (Lilith, Selena, Chiron, south node) are all about them. It's just how I was taught on lectures, most of people don't have problem to hypothetically consider it.

Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.


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I think the thing here isn't

I think the thing here isn't that you got anything to specifcally wrong, it is (as others have pointed out) that their wasn't enough substance to get anything specifically right that wasn't easily determined from our conversation.  I mean in the end I could have made up a bio (which ofcourse I didn't) or a fake birth date and time (which ofcourse I never would), which like others have also pointed out makes this study "fun" at best.  But even without evidence of the truth and accuracy (or even my own understanding) of what I've written it seems the reading is abstract enough it wouldn't matter.  But not bad.

   

  

Luminon wrote:

But his problem is strictly concentrated to the ideologic area of life. With you, it is how you relate to other people, it gets into relationships very easily. Some people might go on academic grounds, have fiery disputes there, and then go home and do something else. I suspect this is not your case, the learning, philosophy, and atheism is rooted deeply in what you are and how you treat others. This is where you get your self-value from.

 

Hmmm...Maybe not "where I get my self value from" but definetly where I get a little of it from.  I certainly live my philosophies, and they don't turn off  when I go home.

Luminon wrote:

You're very interested in other people and also ideals. That might drive you away from what you really feel. If you don't have anyone around to talk with, you might feel a sense of inner emptiness.

Yes, ?, I feel emptyness at times but I think even less than others I'm one to enjoy alote of alone time I don't feel lonely when I am alone.  I often look forward to it.

 

Luminon wrote:

 You seem to be relatively emotionally sensitive man.

It's hard to say, I'm one not to show emotions at all, but I am one to feel them very powerfully and express them through song or going on a 3 day beer binge and building a giant cedar deck or something.  Im not to sure if I am above/below the average of how emotional men are as my friends don't show it either so it's hard to say.

 

 

Luminon wrote:

You often got into conflict with your family or people in general because of ideologies. Religion, atheism, and the like.

Ofcourse we all know that about me.

 

Luminon wrote:

Your opinions on that matter are too revolutionary for their taste, but that's what you are.

Most of my friends don't discuss religion or philosophy at all, just my close circle of 3-4, the rest stricly avoids all non superficial conversation, and yes I can be known to push a conversation they can't handle knowing they can't handle it.  That would fall into my arrogance as a weakness catagory, I have problems with allowing "spacecasedtedness."

 

Luminon wrote:

(1st house, conjunction of Luna and Uranus) The way you spoke to people about their and your ideologies, irritates them very much. You might be too scholarly and intellectual for their tastes.

I think you read I was arrogant and you're saying this knowing my response will be

"Yes, I am brilliant." haha  

 

Luminon wrote:

(Luna and Uranus opposed by Mercury in Gemini) When it comes to words and ideas, talking about the religion in light of reason, you're very non-conformistic. (opposition Uranus - Mercury, in Saggitarius and Gemini) So much, that your family may get upset. (opposition Luna-Mercury) This might also mean that you take all of this very personally and emotionally, since it's the 1st house.

This is fairly obvious, but accurate.

 

Luminon wrote:

The problem is, you will not be likely to do anything about it. This opposition is badly aspected by Lilith on both sides. It's a karmic relationship. In some past lives you might be the zealous preacher in your family who bended the weak minds and flocked the believing sheep. Now they give it back to you, what you taught them. You'd have better accept the fact how your family is so strongly indoctrinated, you did too much of a good job in your past life. Now accept them as they are.

Wow!  Honestly lumi I din't know you dealt into the past lives thing.  Gotta be honest, I didn't expect it, I was a Preacher?  Yes my mother is heavily indoctrinated and I just recently about 3 months ago had somewhat of an email debate with her, the first real "non-fake" conversation weve had in over a decade, and it didn't go to well in her favor, in the end she will just shut off and continue to take her cult drug.  So yes I should accept it.  But a pastor in a past life? 

 

 

 

Luminon wrote:

What is bound by form and convention will be violently broken - in your case it may be relationship with other people or at work.

If I understand this right it is very accurate.  My life is very abnormal, my relationshipos are abnormal, they stick to no real routine like many others.  I have often had blowouts at work with bosses I simply refused to take shit from like others.  I am known in my circle of friends to be the one who just has a different way of doing things, and it can be brilliant or sometimes foolish and harmful.  I can be incredibly stubborn, and in general I have problems with all relationships of all kinds, mostly because 99% of people annoy the hell out of me. 

 

 

Luminon wrote:

You did a lot to get out of static conventions. Before you managed that, you might have a tendence to escape into inner world...

 

This is bang on.  I am an extrovert, but that is mostly a defense to deal with social situations, one I developed as the best mechanism at dealing with not having the 15 years experience or so my friends had on me in social sitiuations when I left the cult, this at first took me a couple years to get over.  I now feel much more comfortable comanding the conversation, making jokes, and stamping my feet a little than not saying anything at all like I would have when I was 14, although in the end I would prefer being outside having a smoke designing the elaborate koi ponds I dream about building in my head.  I'm always looking for an escape route to get these "mental mintues" I call them.  I still do, and I don't think that will ever go away. 

 

 

Luminon wrote:

 

No wonder, that as far as you're concerned, spiritual and mystical things are bullshit and you'd like to make others understand that. (Neptune in Capricorn opposed by Sun in Gemini) You might get quite passionate and authoritative about this opinion of yours. (conjunction of Sun and Venus in Gemini)

It's true lumi, I'm sorry, I think it's all bullshit.  When I was 16 I thought spoon bending was possible, WhenI was 19-21 I really had hope for the falong gong practioners and buddhist monks in thailand but I just didn't see anything convincing of supernatural phenomena.  I try as hard as I can to be open minded, I just become less and less open minded of such claims as the years go on. 

Luminon wrote:

 And yet, you would like very much to help others understand what the world is about. Perhaps you're not so aware of it, but you dig into other people's spiritual feelings and beliefs, if you find yourself in a company or group. A good psychologist, even if maybe sometimes unwelcomed and patronizing.

Accurate. But farily obvious from my posts. 

The  rest is mostly opigions

 

In all, you did fairly well, but most of these things easiliy are determined from our previous conversations, I was hoping youd touch on:

-The death of my sister which is a massive thing, I guess astrology wouldn't deal with loss or things like that.

-My creativity and somewhat odd ballness more than just inner-ness.  This is an absolute staple to my personality, I'm always working on some project, drawing, song, furniture, something, it's what I'm known for.

-My need to take risks, not so much physical risks although they do apply,  just risks in life, I have to risk  everythig quite often.  I have to put all my eggs in one basket and go for it and have done so multiple times.  I have failed many times doing this and ended up living in my car if that, I will one day have alote, and I will end up risking that too on something even bigger.  In the end things mean nothing to me, it's the element of risk that is fundemental to my existence, I CANNOT risk nothing forever.   

-One thing I didnt't mention in my bio which I forgot was how much I've worked with animals in my life, from one eared bobcats to black mambas I worked with them all, and owned all kinds of exotic  animals throughout the years.  I love animals of all kinds, they all fascinate me, the wierder the more interesting. 

 

 I have a good idea for a further test.  Anyone else on the site with the same general backround and traits as I listed pre-reading:

-Strictly relgious upbriging

-Messed up family

-Obiously verbal and strong in their beliefs and philosophies

 

 

Pretend as though this reading is for you, as see how accuratre it is to your life and your personality traits and give a review,  as long as your birthday is no where near  June 12 1984.

 

 
 


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Luminon wrote:I'm sorry to

Luminon wrote:
I'm sorry to disappoint you, but I study astrology, not data mining and postology. I don't know how to make a horoscope by not making it, but by reading what the people write. I read many people's posts, without bothering to make an opinion about them. Honestly, I didn't bother with cheating and reading previous NMCP's posts, it's not like my life would depend on it.

 

Well Luminon, I have offered to give you my relevant info a couple of times just to see what you can do. Thus far, you have not been willing to go for it.

 

Luminon wrote:
My dad as a professional would put your in awe... But only you and your close family or friends, because other people don't know you so well. Similarly, I'm very curious what will NMCP say, he's the one who is most able to evaluate it.

 

Hell's bells, I even offered to pay your father $100.00 for a reading. I would have made good on the deal but you tried to turn it into something where he needed to cold read me.

 

If you can really do this then you can do this.

 

Tell me what data you need and I will provide it. I will PM Brian Sapient with whatever needs to be dealt with and he can decide what the outcome is. Or you can pick your own moderator. It will be your choice.

 

If you wish, I can get you past data mining accusations. I will talk to people whom I know and have one of them register here for the deal. You take what that person gives and you produce something worthwhile.

 

Are you willing to take that as a test of what you can do?

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Answers in Gene Simmons

Answers in Gene Simmons wrote:

Well Luminon, I have offered to give you my relevant info a couple of times just to see what you can do. Thus far, you have not been willing to go for it.

You just saw how it works. Without knowing the person I can't be very specific. Unless I become clairvoyant and read you intuitively on a distance. Or become old and know how the life works by experience. By the way, I'm very busy right now. The school exam season just started and I got involved with some side jobs. I still love it here, but the duties must go first...
 

Answers in Gene Simmons wrote:

Hell's bells, I even offered to pay your father $100.00 for a reading. I would have made good on the deal but you tried to turn it into something where he needed to cold read me.

You still don't understand this. Cold reading and everything else is permitted, desirable and necessary, to solve your problems. My dad doesn't do proving of astrology to doubters by guessing stuff about your life. His proof are the solutions that he will find out for people's problems. If he gives an advice that will save your relationship, health, work, self-worth or stuff like that, then you will see there is something real about his craft.

 

Answers in Gene Simmons wrote:
If you can really do this then you can do this.

 

Tell me what data you need and I will provide it. I will PM Brian Sapient with whatever needs to be dealt with and he can decide what the outcome is. Or you can pick your own moderator. It will be your choice.

 

If you wish, I can get you past data mining accusations. I will talk to people whom I know and have one of them register here for the deal. You take what that person gives and you produce something worthwhile.

 

Are you willing to take that as a test of what you can do?

No, there is no reason for it. You already saw what I can do, at this time, in these highly unsuitable conditions. The problem also is, that I'm young. It's diffcult for me to work with things and areas of life that I have little or no experience with. That's pretty much most of relationships, career, family, and so on. So how can I understand your life? I can't, if I don't see it in practice, in person, at all. Remember the rule of lock and key! This is not how astrology can be tested. Of course I can repeat the attempt, but the result will be probably similar, fairly accurate but not more than a hypothetical data mining. And I don't have time for that right now. Don't worry, I have your horoscope in database. There are several greater major aspects that suggest you're interested in the occult, but not on good relationship with it. But again, that is what you already wrote somewhere.

Here's a little message for NMCP. You might also find it interesting.

NMCP has Mercury in Gemini in 7th house (other people). Gemini is sign traditionally associated with siblings. This mercury is aspected by two quincunxes. Quincunx is an aspect often associated with loss of some kind. For example, my dad had several quincunxes at the time when his dad, my grandfather, died. They are however considered as minor aspects, so in primary software settings quincunxes are not visible. So therefore, if I'd have more wits and experience, I'd turn on the minor aspects on and speculate about the hint for a loss of siblings.


 

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So how does astrology have

So how does astrology have anything to do with what your dad does then?  How is what he does woo, as opposed to just being a secular shrink?  What can he do that a secular person could not do?

 

I think most of us are under the assumption that when you say astrology, that means you can figure things out about a person simply by knowing their time and place of birth, rather than getting to know them first and matching known character traits to a list of stuff in an astrology book or program.  Are we wrong?

 

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


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Do not eat a heavy meal fore

Do not eat a heavy meal fore several hours before your class. yoga is best practiced on an empty stomach. Do new york city asian escorts drink water, both before and after your practice in order to keep your new york city asian escort body well hydrated.yoga for a beginner is the first step on a journey of ever new york city escorts increasing self-awareness, a greater level of strength, endurance, and flexibility, and a new york city escort deeper sense of peace. Have fun and enjoy everything along the way!Della Menechella is a yoga and fitness enthusiast who has been involved in fitness for over thirty years. Here
 


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mellestad wrote:So how does

mellestad wrote:

So how does astrology have anything to do with what your dad does then?  How is what he does woo, as opposed to just being a secular shrink?  What can he do that a secular person could not do?

 

I think most of us are under the assumption that when you say astrology, that means you can figure things out about a person simply by knowing their time and place of birth, rather than getting to know them first and matching known character traits to a list of stuff in an astrology book or program.  Are we wrong?

Astrology is a study of parallels between person's life and situation on the sky. It is mathemathically described by Kammerer's laws of seriality and causality. But horoscope does NOT determine the person. It symbolizes the Kammerer's influence of planets. Any person is very likely to be influenced by it, but not in one way. Many behavior patterns are the result.
The value of astrology is in the fact that it's a key to the problem, it shows the causes of a problem, solution for it, it's duration, it's historical significance, and so on. Nobody will guarantee that they will find a solution to your problems. But astrologer should, because the nature of aspect that gives you trouble is no secret for him, it's obviously displayed on the screen. If you provide your very precise data, of course, and if you say aloud what is your damn problem.
Plus, add to it all that common psychology can do, which is not much.

You greatly underestimate complexity of this technique. It's more than 12 psychological archetypes X 12 areas of life x 11+ planets x 12 aspects x 4 social levels x 3 modes of expression of a character trait. Someone said, that astrology is 64 times more complex than chess, and I agree.
And yet, astrology makes no righteous claim that it can reduce and simplify a living person on a list of traits from computer analysis. Horoscope is indivisibly related to a person born under it. It's a key to that particular person's problems and talents. My dad might have a key, but he needs the lock to open.

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Hey, does anyone know where I can find some "new york city asian escorts"????   XD

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


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Luminon wrote:mellestad

Luminon wrote:

mellestad wrote:

So how does astrology have anything to do with what your dad does then?  How is what he does woo, as opposed to just being a secular shrink?  What can he do that a secular person could not do?

 

I think most of us are under the assumption that when you say astrology, that means you can figure things out about a person simply by knowing their time and place of birth, rather than getting to know them first and matching known character traits to a list of stuff in an astrology book or program.  Are we wrong?

Astrology is a study of parallels between person's life and situation on the sky. It is mathemathically described by Kammerer's laws of seriality and causality. But horoscope does NOT determine the person. It symbolizes the Kammerer's influence of planets. Any person is very likely to be influenced by it, but not in one way. Many behavior patterns are the result.
The value of astrology is in the fact that it's a key to the problem, it shows the causes of a problem, solution for it, it's duration, it's historical significance, and so on. Nobody will guarantee that they will find a solution to your problems. But astrologer should, because the nature of aspect that gives you trouble is no secret for him, it's obviously displayed on the screen. If you provide your very precise data, of course, and if you say aloud what is your damn problem.
Plus, add to it all that common psychology can do, which is not much.

You greatly underestimate complexity of this technique. It's more than 12 psychological archetypes X 12 areas of life x 11+ planets x 12 aspects x 4 social levels x 3 modes of expression of a character trait. Someone said, that astrology is 64 times more complex than chess, and I agree.
And yet, astrology makes no righteous claim that it can reduce and simplify a living person on a list of traits from computer analysis. Horoscope is indivisibly related to a person born under it. It's a key to that particular person's problems and talents. My dad might have a key, but he needs the lock to open.

 

Hmm.  That doesn't seem very complex compared to the number of variables a trained psychologist would have to deal with.  I've read books on astrology and horoscopes before (big fat ones that put on scientific airs) and to me as a layperson their main charm seems to be ambiguity, where a given reading has so many options the reader can pick and choose between many options and always find something applicable to themselves.  I guess I'm just disappointed to lose my illusions about what astrology is.

I'm not seeing the utility I suppose.  I'd be interested to set up a study about problem resolution between some good secular doctors/shrinks and some good astrologers, but at this point I doubt astrology has enough credibility to generate sufficient interest for such a thing.

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


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mellestad wrote:Hmm.  That

mellestad wrote:

Hmm.  That doesn't seem very complex compared to the number of variables a trained psychologist would have to deal with.  I've read books on astrology and horoscopes before (big fat ones that put on scientific airs) and to me as a layperson their main charm seems to be ambiguity, where a given reading has so many options the reader can pick and choose between many options and always find something applicable to themselves.  I guess I'm just disappointed to lose my illusions about what astrology is.

The problem is mainly with traditional astrology that is still prevalent today. It's just rehash from medieval age, made of thousands of little rules, without understanding the several underlying principles. Modern astrologers like my dad work to create a simple but logical theory that is compatible with modern scientific knowledge and is therefore possible for scientists to understand. Without this understanding scientists try to test it as something that astrology isn't, or isn't yet. My dad's book should go into print in USA this year, hopefully there will be some response. It has a few scientific chapters.

mellestad wrote:
I'm not seeing the utility I suppose.  I'd be interested to set up a study about problem resolution between some good secular doctors/shrinks and some good astrologers, but at this point I doubt astrology has enough credibility to generate sufficient interest for such a thing.

Yeah, it needs some real astrologer. Synthetizing an unfamiliar sign, house, planet and aspect into a specific, useful, testable and true statement is very diffcult. Unless you're a professional that had seen people with such an aspect hundred times, so it's obvious what it is. So far, I only understand my own horoscope the most, this is why I started learning it. But my horoscope is very unusual, it won't tell me much about people in general.
I know it's weird, but so far I respected privacy of my dad's clients. But for the sake of learning and getting experience I'm going to violate that soon and listen to some of their readings. Clients receive them in mp3.

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Luminon wrote: Yeah, it

Luminon wrote:

 Yeah, it needs some real astrologer. Synthetizing an unfamiliar sign, house, planet and aspect into a specific, useful, testable and true statement is very diffcult. Unless you're a professional that had seen people with such an aspect hundred times, so it's obvious what it is. So far, I only understand my own horoscope the most, this is why I started learning it. But my horoscope is very unusual, it won't tell me much about people in general.
I know it's weird, but so far I respected privacy of my dad's clients. But for the sake of learning and getting experience I'm going to violate that soon and listen to some of their readings. Clients receive them in mp3.

That would be interesting, if you think you can be objective about it.  I'd have a hard time analyzing my dad's beliefs in an objective way because I would rather respect him as a person and ignore his rational faults.  I would just assume hold on to the idea of father=hero for as long as I can.  But I'm sentimental.

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


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Luminon wrote:The value of

Luminon wrote:

 

The value of astrology is in the fact that it's a key to the problem, it shows the causes of a problem, solution for it, it's duration, it's historical significance, and so on.

Could you point out where you gave a solution for or a duration of any of NMCP's problems?


 

 

I don't understand why the Christians I meet find it so confusing that I care about the fact that they are wasting huge amounts of time and resources playing with their imaginary friend. Even non-confrontational religion hurts atheists because we live in a society which is constantly wasting resources and rejecting rational thinking.


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Whatthedeuce wrote:Luminon

Whatthedeuce wrote:

Luminon wrote:

The value of astrology is in the fact that it's a key to the problem, it shows the causes of a problem, solution for it, it's duration, it's historical significance, and so on.

Could you point out where you gave a solution for or a duration of any of NMCP's problems?

What problems? He didn't tell me any, that was the purpose of double blind test.
People who don't understand astrology think, that it's a way of knowing everything, which isn't true. It's a way of interpreting everything.

The evidence is in positive change of client's life. For example, cure of health problems, positive change of behavior or knowing of problems ahead and being prepared for them, or revealing the problems retrospectively. Assuming that the client will really do what the astrologer says.

Of course, a gifted and experienced astrologer (with hundreds of clients) can guess a lot about the person if he has precise data, but still it's not how astrology should be used. Astrology is still very much in it's basics, simply because until now it had no access to modern science and technologies. Astrology already has theoretical scientific basis and it's in harmony with unified theory of the paranormal. But mainstream scientists have no idea on how it can work, which effectively turns their brains off when they hear the A-word. Local Skeptic's club proves it very well in their own documents. They can't even point out real, valid objections to astrology. They published 33 of objections, which are literally inane. Which is why they are unable to study it, either to prove or disprove. Local astrologic community laughs at them, but it's a sad laughter.

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Luminon wrote:Whatthedeuce

Luminon wrote:

Whatthedeuce wrote:

Luminon wrote:

The value of astrology is in the fact that it's a key to the problem, it shows the causes of a problem, solution for it, it's duration, it's historical significance, and so on.

Could you point out where you gave a solution for or a duration of any of NMCP's problems?

What problems? He didn't tell me any, that was the purpose of double blind test.

 

He did mention problems in his biography. Are you saying that you need knowledge of his biography before making the reading in order to tell him anything useful?

 

Luminon wrote:

People who don't understand astrology think, that it's a way of knowing everything, which isn't true. It's a way of interpreting everything.

 

Well, I don't think it intends to be a way of knowing everything; however, I was under the impression that it is supposed to reveal more than nothing.

 

Luminon wrote:

The evidence is in positive change of client's life. For example, cure of health problems, positive change of behavior or knowing of problems ahead and being prepared for them, or revealing the problems retrospectively. Assuming that the client will really do what the astrologer says.

I was under the impression that the purpose of the astrology reading of NMCP was to provide evidence for astrology. If the evidence comes in this form, then the reading failed to provide any evidence (Ignoring the incredibly obvious and ambiguous advice you gave him).

 

 

I don't understand why the Christians I meet find it so confusing that I care about the fact that they are wasting huge amounts of time and resources playing with their imaginary friend. Even non-confrontational religion hurts atheists because we live in a society which is constantly wasting resources and rejecting rational thinking.


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Whatthedeuce wrote:He did

Whatthedeuce wrote:

He did mention problems in his biography. Are you saying that you need knowledge of his biography before making the reading in order to tell him anything useful?


Generally, an astrologer needs to know the person's problems or specific questions about solutions to begin with, and then may ask some details from the client's life. AFAIK it's not necessary to know the person's whole life, only what matters.

As for your question, usefulness was not the purpose of test. Evaluating of usefulness is subjectively up to NMCP. What was done objectively, was if I can guess any real events from NMCP's life (biography) through horoscope.

 

Whatthedeuce wrote:

Well, I don't think it intends to be a way of knowing everything; however, I was under the impression that it is supposed to reveal more than nothing.

I was under the impression that the purpose of the astrology reading of NMCP was to provide evidence for astrology. If the evidence comes in this form, then the reading failed to provide any evidence (Ignoring the incredibly obvious and ambiguous advice you gave him).

You see, I got no information to begin with, so I got almost no information to end with. This is not how astrology should be used. People are sometimes clueless on how to solve their problematic personal situation. Astrologers analyze a symbolic representation of life factors (which also contains solution) and translate it to the language of client's personal situation. For that he of course must know the client's personal situation! Just like key can't open lock without a lock, or doctor can't make diagnosis and prescribe medicine without a patient.

In some cases an experienced professional astrologer can make a succesful guess. For example, a friend of my dad brought him a horoscope that had badly aspected Mars in Aries 2nd house. (or something like that) 2nd house is about self-value and values (money) in general, Aries is about emotions, and Mars is about action. Thanks to his experience of thousand clients he extrapolated a conclusion. This person is in great danger of being passionately addicted to gambling, and should never ever win anything, or he will become a gambler regardless of real finance counts.
Then he was told that the owner of horoscope is indeed a young man fascinated by casinos, thrill of winning money and gambling chance theories.

By the way, my dad's book is already prepared to print in USA. Is anyone interested? It has beautiful cover.
http://www.lulu.com/product/file-download/introduction-to-aquarian-astrology/11028399

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Luminon wrote:As for your

Luminon wrote:

As for your question, usefulness was not the purpose of test. Evaluating of usefulness is subjectively up to NMCP. What was done objectively, was if I can guess any real events from NMCP's life (biography) through horoscope.

O.K. fine. In that case, could you please point out which real events from NMCP's life you correctly guessed?

 

Luminon wrote:

By the way, my dad's book is already prepared to print in USA. Is anyone interested? It has beautiful cover.
http://www.lulu.com/product/file-download/introduction-to-aquarian-astrology/11028399

 

I did not buy the book, but I did read the summary of it on the link you provided. One sentence stuck out to me in particular:

Quote:

The author is confirming the empiric research by own astrological praxis through the last years.

I am wondering if you could tell me where the "empirical research" this refers to is documented. I would be very interested in reading this research.

 

 

I don't understand why the Christians I meet find it so confusing that I care about the fact that they are wasting huge amounts of time and resources playing with their imaginary friend. Even non-confrontational religion hurts atheists because we live in a society which is constantly wasting resources and rejecting rational thinking.


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Whatthedeuce wrote:Luminon

Whatthedeuce wrote:

Luminon wrote:

As for your question, usefulness was not the purpose of test. Evaluating of usefulness is subjectively up to NMCP. What was done objectively, was if I can guess any real events from NMCP's life (biography) through horoscope.

O.K. fine. In that case, could you please point out which real events from NMCP's life you correctly guessed?

I correctly guessed the religional conflict with his family. He has there an opposition Gemini-Saggitarius, which is the axis of ideologies, like religional and academic, and their conflict. This constellation is very typical for atheists oppressed by religious surroundings.
In retrospection, I could also guess the loss of a sibling, because of God's finger pattern pointing at Mercury in Gemini. But God's finger is not displayed in basic settings of the software. Next time I'll be wiser.

It's really diffcult to guess the person's situations from astrologic influences, they don't compel, only impel. How the person will deal with them, that is a different problem altogether. Only sometimes the result is typical. For example, when in my puberty I had Neptune (the planet of hippies) going through my descendant in Aquarius, it was all like in the musical Hair, song Aquarius. I had long hair, smoked pot and grew ganja. And the Neptune was in a transit, not native. Really, these readings can't be done on distance.

Whatthedeuce wrote:

I am wondering if you could tell me where the "empirical research" this refers to is documented. I would be very interested in reading this research.

By documentation you mean database of clients and their characteristics? With values of character marked in some sort of classifying system? Then I'm sorry to disappoint you. My dad is not a scientist. He does not have funds, people, equipment and time to do that sort of work which is demanded by academic community. He can't afford developing and maintaining such a database, which would anyway have only subjective value. This is not how my dad works.

Empirical research by definition may exist regardless of how it is recorded. My dad uses natural way of recording and processing the huge amount of data, which is using his brain. He has a high IQ, so it's not a problem. The data and observations are safe in his head and readily available for use. Nobody else can steal his discoveries. He also wrote another book (still in electronic form) and has basic notes for writing several another books. In his free time he writes down his research into these books in progress. But he has daily job and many other duties, including maintaining the household. He plans to write these books quickly when he will be in retirement. Making horoscopes is long and diffcult work anyway.

Not even you would be able to read through such a database anyway, you have better things to do. The method is such, that astrologer lets all the data be formulated into a simple set of principles that can be easily taken, understood and applied for verification. Nobody right in their mind will demand people to read through documentation of research that takes years and with hundreds of clients. Maybe only scientists that have too much time at work and too much funds from a generous donor.

Astrologic data are very diffcult to write down objectively, but also very obvious. For example, if my dad just had a 20th person with ascendant in Taurus, with very low self-esteem, then bingo! Taurus sign is all about values, wealth, the value of self and self-esteem. That is astrological principle. Another principle, that my dad invented, is that horoscope shows what you should learn, not what you are. Therefore, a person with such an emphasized Taurus will have to learn what the self-esteem is, because such a person will not know anything about it. These cases typically think they deserve to be treated like shit. Astrologer's job is therefore obvious, to point out how valuable they really are, and how their partner manipulates them to feel like shit and serve him forever. That is the nature of mishandled principle of Taurus sign, that the person must learn.

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Luminon wrote:I correctly

Luminon wrote:

I correctly guessed the religional conflict with his family.

Luminon wrote:

In retrospection, I could also guess the loss of a sibling

As I already pointed out in post #5, NMCP told you there was a conflict over religion in his family very shortly before you made the astrological reading. Like you have already said, you are only able to guess the loss of a sibling after he told you about it. Is astrology only able to make predictions that the astrologer already knows about before he predicts them? You are making it look like that is the case.

 

 

Luminon wrote:

By documentation you mean database of clients and their characteristics? With values of character marked in some sort of classifying system? Then I'm sorry to disappoint you. My dad is not a scientist. He does not have funds, people, equipment and time to do that sort of work which is demanded by academic community. He can't afford developing and maintaining such a database, which would anyway have only subjective value. This is not how my dad works.

Actually, yes I was assuming that there was some sort of method of classification involved and I assumed that they were consolidated in some place. (If you fail to classify characteristics then how could he possibly tell you that Taurus is related to self esteem? That requires the classification of what self esteem is.) People make classifications of subjective things all the time. All that it would require for him to record his results is a computer. Before computers were around, it would only require a pen and paper.

Luminon wrote:

Not even you would be able to read through such a database anyway, you have better things to do. The method is such, that astrologer lets all the data be formulated into a simple set of principles that can be easily taken, understood and applied for verification. Nobody right in their mind will demand people to read through documentation of research that takes years and with hundreds of clients. Maybe only scientists that have too much time at work and too much funds from a generous donor.

The issue I have with this is that in order to formulate data into a set of principles, you must do a statistical analysis to see if the data actually conforms to the alleged principle. A statistical analysis requires that the data actually be recorded and consolidated in some way.

It seems like you are saying your dad analyzed a bunch of people, and then after a while, he kind of felt like some patterns had arisen. Then, without making any controlled effort to actually check to see if his intuition about even one of the patterns was valid, he described those patterns as astrological principles. Is this how it happened?

 

I don't understand why the Christians I meet find it so confusing that I care about the fact that they are wasting huge amounts of time and resources playing with their imaginary friend. Even non-confrontational religion hurts atheists because we live in a society which is constantly wasting resources and rejecting rational thinking.


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Now I don't know how well it

Now I don't know how well it fits into what Luminon is describing, but several tests of Astrology have been done by supplying Astrologers with profiles of different people and asking them to work out what their Astrological signs would most likely have been. They have never achieved more than chance scores.

 

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Luminon wrote:Not even you

Luminon wrote:

Not even you would be able to read through such a database anyway, you have better things to do.

 

Back on this point. I certainly do not have something better to do with my time than confirm a completely new branch of science which universally and intimately applies to every single human being. How important do you think I am?

I don't understand why the Christians I meet find it so confusing that I care about the fact that they are wasting huge amounts of time and resources playing with their imaginary friend. Even non-confrontational religion hurts atheists because we live in a society which is constantly wasting resources and rejecting rational thinking.


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Whatthedeuce wrote:As I

Whatthedeuce wrote:

As I already pointed out in post #5, NMCP told you there was a conflict over religion in his family very shortly before you made the astrological reading. Like you have already said, you are only able to guess the loss of a sibling after he told you about it. Is astrology only able to make predictions that the astrologer already knows about before he predicts them? You are making it look like that is the case.

I think I have answer. What I did for NMCP, was analysis of natal horoscope. This is not much about predictions. The part of astrology that is more about predictions is transit astrology. It is placing the natal horoscope over a horoscope of time which you want to predict. (or analyze retrospectively) Very typically, things like middle age crisis are reflected in this, because of Jupiter return on natal position or Saturn return. Square or opposition on natal position are important points in life. And any harmonic or disharmonic aspects on any other planets in the transit are important. But this is an advanced technique that I haven't done yet. It requires a lot of life experience, specially having experienced Saturn return on your own skin, to be able to say what you're talking about.

But still, the astrologic influence impels, not compels. It's up to the client how he will respond to the influence of a transit. There are some typical reactions (like middle age crisis) but the purpose of astrology is not to predict them. (that's automatical) The purpose is to anticipate them and work hard on yourself to pass through these trials positively and not negatively.
It's up to a person to make sure that a transit will be a learning and productive experience, not a harsh experience. It can save life and spare the person of degenerative diseases.

 

Whatthedeuce wrote:

Actually, yes I was assuming that there was some sort of method of classification involved and I assumed that they were consolidated in some place. (If you fail to classify characteristics then how could he possibly tell you that Taurus is related to self esteem? That requires the classification of what self esteem is.) People make classifications of subjective things all the time. All that it would require for him to record his results is a computer. Before computers were around, it would only require a pen and paper.

Yes, the results are consolidated in a place, and that place is my dad's head, this is where and how the statistics are classified. As I wrote, after 20th person with Taurus ascendant and low self-esteem it is OBVIOUS that it's related. The archetype of self-value isn't only Taurus, but also Venus and 2nd house, this is why we say that Venus is ruler of Taurus and is at home at 2nd house. There is no need for database or computer, all you need to observe that in practice is not being completely stupid. This is really the least problem in astrology, and it was solved a few thousand years ago. Now we only refine the concepts, from money and material wealth to how you value yourself, the self-esteem.

Secondly, taking records of a person would require very complex psychologic classifying system. Who would design it? Who would fill in the data objectively? Astrologer or client himself? Who would pay for the extra time and effort? None of this is needed for astrologic practice, this is what academic community wants. You see, this is what scientific funds and grants are good for. Give me a few millions of dollars and we'll see what can be done about that.

Whatthedeuce wrote:
The issue I have with this is that in order to formulate data into a set of principles, you must do a statistical analysis to see if the data actually conforms to the alleged principle. A statistical analysis requires that the data actually be recorded and consolidated in some way.

It seems like you are saying your dad analyzed a bunch of people, and then after a while, he kind of felt like some patterns had arisen. Then, without making any controlled effort to actually check to see if his intuition about even one of the patterns was valid, he described those patterns as astrological principles. Is this how it happened?

Nope... If this is what he would do, he'd get killed on nearest traffic lights. No, my dad uses scientific method. Let's see what is scientific method:

You see, there is nothing about papers, databases or numerical evaluation of client's psychologic traits. All this must be done, but by optional technical equipment. In this case, the equipment is my dad's brain, and it's a brilliant brain. It's capacity and performance is more than enough to perform the above mentioned scientific method and much more. He already had 1000+ clients and he performed the scientific method many times about more aspects of a horoscope that most astrologers do. He designed, investigated and succesfully verified many new concepts for astrology, for example life cycle revolution or new meaning of ascendant. He writes about it in his books, this is the phase of reporting results.

I'd never think I will have to explain it to someone else, but the beauty of scientific method is, that it's self-correcting. If the hypotheses don't apply on incoming tenths and hundreds of clients, then they get reformulated or rejected. And what is the ultimate test of truth? It's of course consistence of results with reality, but also the actual benefit that the client has. The goal is to help the client to lead a happy, productive and healthy life through correct adaptation to life's demands. My dad gets miserable human wrecks with terrible relationships, property affairs, bad health and no purpose of life, and tells them how to lead the good life. Then there are two choices: either the client follows the advice and lives well as my father predicts, or doesn't follow the advice and there is no betterment. We often hear from them, so we know what's happening with them. My dad's method and experience is so perfect, that he reliably helps people for years. The research now moved on to more theoretical fields. The astrology starts to develop quickly with help of general science and astronomy.

Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.


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Luminon wrote:I think I have

Luminon wrote:
I think I have answer. What I did for NMCP, was analysis of natal horoscope. This is not much about predictions.

If this is true, then why did you make this statement in post #23?

Luminon wrote:
What was done objectively, was if I can guess any real events from NMCP's life (biography) through horoscope.

 

 

Luminon wrote:
Yes, the results are consolidated in a place, and that place is my dad's head, this is where and how the statistics are classified. As I wrote, after 20th person with Taurus ascendant and low self-esteem it is OBVIOUS that it's related.

So, you are saying that your father's memory is perfect?

 

Luminon wrote:

There is no need for database or computer, all you need to observe that in practice is not being completely stupid. This is really the least problem in astrology, and it was solved a few thousand years ago.

It definately was never solved. You do not have to be stupid to be subject to confirmation bias. Even very smart people exhibit confirmation bias. This is one reason why most people take an extra 10 seconds to write things down when they do research.

 

Luminon wrote:

Secondly, taking records of a person would require very complex psychologic classifying system. Who would design it? Who would fill in the data objectively? Astrologer or client himself? Who would pay for the extra time and effort? None of this is needed for astrologic practice, this is what academic community wants. You see, this is what scientific funds and grants are good for. Give me a few millions of dollars and we'll see what can be done about that.

Taking records in your father's brain would require an equally complex classifying system as taking records on paper.

 

Luminon wrote:
In this case, the equipment is my dad's brain, and it's a brilliant brain. It's capacity and performance is more than enough to perform the above mentioned scientific method and much more. He already had 1000+ clients and he performed the scientific method many times about more aspects of a horoscope that most astrologers do. He designed, investigated and succesfully verified many new concepts for astrology, for example life cycle revolution or new meaning of ascendant.
No one has a brain that is so brilliant it can remember every detail of a psycologic profile of 1000+ clients and then analyze their correspondence with astronomy without having countless flawed memories and instances of confirmation bias.

 

 

 

I don't understand why the Christians I meet find it so confusing that I care about the fact that they are wasting huge amounts of time and resources playing with their imaginary friend. Even non-confrontational religion hurts atheists because we live in a society which is constantly wasting resources and rejecting rational thinking.


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Whatthedeuce wrote:Luminon

Whatthedeuce wrote:

Luminon wrote:
I think I have answer. What I did for NMCP, was analysis of natal horoscope. This is not much about predictions.

If this is true, then why did you make this statement in post #23?

Luminon wrote:
What was done objectively, was if I can guess any real events from NMCP's life (biography) through horoscope.

 

Because it was a compromise between my abilities, testability of the claims, and price of airplane tickets that would cost to take NMCP here for a proper reading.

Whatthedeuce wrote:
So, you are saying that your father's memory is perfect?
No, I'm saying that it's sufficient. Capacity of human brain is enormous.

Whatthedeuce wrote:
It definately was never solved. You do not have to be stupid to be subject to confirmation bias. Even very smart people exhibit confirmation bias. This is one reason why most people take an extra 10 seconds to write things down when they do research.
This is why my dad uses the scientific method, it's self-correcting. Confirmation bias would result in his theories not fitting on the clients.
Furthermore, writing things down wouldn't take 10 seconds, it would take hours, just as much as the horoscope takes. And there is no system yet designed that would fit academic demands. Designing it would be expensive, because it has to involve academic expertise. And nobody yet defined what kind of data exactly the database should have.

Whatthedeuce wrote:
Taking records in your father's brain would require an equally complex classifying system as taking records on paper.
I doubt you can prove this claim. You don't know the complexity of a person's psychology, horoscope and state of life combined, in addition with actual reading just done. Writing this down would be a work for a few other well-paid people. Nope, brain, human memory, subconsciousness and intuition are great tools for managing such a great amount of information. Even you don't remember all your life experience consciously, you'd have to get crazy. Nope, you only recall a memory that you momentarily need, or just the gist of things.


Whatthedeuce wrote:
No one has a brain that is so brilliant it can remember every detail of a psycologic profile of 1000+ clients and then analyze their correspondence with astronomy without having countless flawed memories and instances of confirmation bias.

Well, true, this is also why my dad doesn't keep written records, even during writing them there might be confirmation bias. He mainly works with the gist of theories formed through both logical mind and great intuition. And of course, there is the scientific method that is self-correcting. If what he says fits on people AND is their key to correcting their specific life problems, then it's true, either it's false. My dad is highly interested in helping people, because those who were helped attract more clients through recommendations.

Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.


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BobSpence1 wrote:Now I don't

BobSpence1 wrote:

Now I don't know how well it fits into what Luminon is describing, but several tests of Astrology have been done by supplying Astrologers with profiles of different people and asking them to work out what their Astrological signs would most likely have been. They have never achieved more than chance scores.

 

This study suprisingly seemed to show better than chance results:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3N1dIUTbZTo

  I don't believe celestial bodies effect our lives, but someway or another this guy hit noticably better than chance with his readings of these 10 people. 

 

 

 

 


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Luminon wrote:Because it was

Luminon wrote:

Because it was a compromise between my abilities, testability of the claims, and price of airplane tickets that would cost to take NMCP here for a proper reading.

If you required him to come to you for a "proper reading" before you could give him any information other than a restatement of what he had already told you combined with a couple of very obvious and ambiguous statements, why did you do the reading at all?

 

 

Luminon wrote:
My dad is highly interested in helping people, because those who were helped attract more clients through recommendations.

O.K. at this point I understand that all of your father's research is based on intuition and stored entirely in his head.

I guess the reason that it has taken me so long to accept this is that if I were in his position I could not imagine doing that. If I had the ability to make valid astrological readings, I would work as hard as possible/spend all the resources availabe to me trying to prove it. This is because once I uncovered sufficient evidence, I could present it to the rest of society, attracting millions of more clients, thousands of students wishing to learn from me, and huge amounts of money for research grants. I would open up a whole new field of science which would increase the scope and precision of astrology, I would gain wealth and notoriety, and I would help billions of people in the process.

I don't understand why the Christians I meet find it so confusing that I care about the fact that they are wasting huge amounts of time and resources playing with their imaginary friend. Even non-confrontational religion hurts atheists because we live in a society which is constantly wasting resources and rejecting rational thinking.


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NoMoreCrazyPeople

NoMoreCrazyPeople wrote:

BobSpence1 wrote:

Now I don't know how well it fits into what Luminon is describing, but several tests of Astrology have been done by supplying Astrologers with profiles of different people and asking them to work out what their Astrological signs would most likely have been. They have never achieved more than chance scores.

 

This study suprisingly seemed to show better than chance results:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3N1dIUTbZTo

  I don't believe celestial bodies effect our lives, but someway or another this guy hit noticably better than chance with his readings of these 10 people.

Well, to be fair, the test shown in that youtube video checks to see how well people match up to horoscopes that guy made. Bob described people giving their own profiles and then asking astrologers to figure out those people's signs. This is different from what you showed, so Bob is not incorrect in what he said.

 

However, this is still pretty interesting. Has any more extensive research been done on this guy?

edit: Or, does anyone have more information about this particular test? I would like to calculate the probability of him getting these results by chance. Also, I find it a little peculiar that the two people they switched happened to be the two people he analyzed most accurately. The probability of the two best being selected by chance is less than 3%...


 

I don't understand why the Christians I meet find it so confusing that I care about the fact that they are wasting huge amounts of time and resources playing with their imaginary friend. Even non-confrontational religion hurts atheists because we live in a society which is constantly wasting resources and rejecting rational thinking.


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 Well, to be fair, the test

 

whatthedeuce wrote:

Well, to be fair, the test shown in that youtube video checks to see how well people match up to horoscopes that guy made. Bob described people giving their own profiles and then asking astrologers to figure out those people's signs. This is different from what you showed, so Bob is not incorrect in what he said.

 

However, this is still pretty interesting. Has any more extensive research been done on this guy?

Ahh, and I wasn't arguing with bob, just puttin the study in there because it surprised even me, which is why I asked lumi for the reading.  I haven't found any other studies on this guy.