When bad things happen to the people that were bad to you, was this the result of punishment from others. As in they were bad as a kid, they then ended up in prison, because that is just social justice. Or was it more like random stuff?

Because the people that I knew that were bad either ended up in prison or in bad relationships, bad jobs because they did not get along with people. This is just social justice at work.

Some ended up in car accidents or became crime victims because of their wild ways.

The rest of the "bad karma" like getting a disease was kind of random, it happened to 'good' and 'bad'. So I don't think there is any mystery force at work here. And no science to back up any of this karma stuff. Humans look for patterns in chaos even when there is none.

Good and bad things happen to both good and bad people. Sometimes good things don't happen to good people, and sometimes bad things don't happen to bad people. We perceive the latter two cases as unfair. Good things and bad things can be random (winning the lottery, getting run over by a bus) or the result of situations people have gotten themselves into.

 

Hitler was a bad person. And he ended up in a ditch, covered in petrol, on fire...

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6omQ5JjjLsE

That's simple. There is the law of action and reaction, extended by the law of rebirth. For example, if I was someone rich, powerful and careless in my past life, I might have sent many people to death, slavery or harem. These people will be angry, but they won't do anything, because in this life I have power and money and they have nothing.
But when I die, my soul will evaluate that being so rich and powerful wasn't a good choice, so it will try to incarnate me as a normal guy, preferably poor and weak. And similarly, the souls of oppressed people will try the opposite experience, because being poor and oppressed didn't work out very well for them.
And so I might get born as a normal guy, go to school, and have a lot of people bullying me at school for no reason at all. This is how they will return the favor.

And so people stagger from incarnation to incarnation, from extreme to extreme. The true purpose is to be free from extremes and develop the golden middle way, that is narrow like knife's edge and crooked like intestines. Here I used the example of self-preservation, the virtue is to preserve myself, but not on the detriment of others, to not let myself be oppressed but not harm other people. There are also other disciplines of life than self-preservation, but that's the most basic discipline.

So basically, bad things happen to people who were bad in the past but not necessarily now. They may also happen out of some dick's free will. For example, there's no way how whole Indian peninsula full of poor people could earn that for being bad in past life. That is karma (action and reaction) of Indian government and what economical decisions it made.

Someone might say that I see karma as a spiritual force or heavenly account of sins, but that is not correct. I see karma as a force, a momentum contained within objects. It can be measured, manipulated to some degree, transferred, and even diminished by specific counteractions. It can be personal, heredital, collective, global and so on, just like momentum can be. We seemingly don't move, but Earth rotates with us, orbits with us, solar system moves and even galaxy itself moves. Similarly it is with karma, it's not a direct action and result, it's a content of momentums and relationships with various vectors within a system that is within even more complex system. In a complex system, effects can be preserved for a long time, until they show up visibly on the surface at some moment.

It's interesting that for lesser "sinners" karma works much faster than for the greater. Obviously, lesser burden of karmic momentum makes the reaction faster. A system that is clogged with karmic tasks to carry out will move very slowly, just like a ball that is pressed on from several directions will be slow, because opposite vectors less or more negate each other.

I wonder if anyone understood me. Imagine it as a billiards ball.

"Let no good deed go unpunished"

I'm assuming your question is, do bad things happen more to bad people than they do to good people? I'm not sure, but if it does, I think it would have to do with the way individuals and their societies function.

 

Oh I wasn't saying that there is any actual karma or mysterious force. And I know that it's really random. I guess my theory is closer to the social justice you were mentioning (I didn't realize there was a name for it). Those that do things that are a detriment to other individuals or society, are likely to reap what they sow.

I think that people that behave a certain way can get away with it for awhile, but eventually people learn to see through it and so that person is no longer able to benefit from trying to "cheat" at life. Like for an example, someone who doesn't respect people is unlikely to gain respect back after awhile. Someone who mooches off their friends is likely to lose those friends. Someone who makes a habit of robbing houses is likely to get caught and pay the price.

 

 

 

Aw I understand you Luminon! Yes, I think you're on to something with the "action and reaction" that you were talking about. Unlike you, I don't believe that there is an actual karmic force, and I don't believe in reincarnation. But I do think that, for instance, people who disregard the feelings of others, are bound to have that blow up in their face. Soon, other people won't want to be around someone like that. They will lose friends, and maybe even jobs.

I also agree with you that "lesser sinners" tend to see a reaction much faster than "greater sinners." Right now, there are a couple people who I don't consider to be good people, because of things that they've done, but I have yet to see anything "bad" enough to make up for those things happen to them. If you're allowed to, maybe you can use your psychic powers to send a little bad karma their way?

 

 

I would characterize a person who treated their friends badly as "bad", but I wouldn't necessarily say that losing those friends constituted something bad happening to them. It would be bad if they could behave in such a way and continue to have friends. Losing the friends is actually a positive development.

Burglary however, from my experience is usually committed for good reasons (like needing money). I wouldn't say that someone is a bad person just because they are a burglar. It goes without saying that it's bad for the person being burgled, but the burglars are not the miscreants who foisted stupid fucking neo-liberal policies on everyone to mow down any civic institutions that constitute the welfare state or social safety net, criminalizing social problems. The mother fuckers who do that are bad and nothing bad ever seems to happen to them. They shit in solid gold toilet bowls. So to answer your question... maybe.

If it's arrogant, cocky, overconfident, and unduly antagonistic individuals with an overly inflated sense of self-worth (the likes of which often fill the roles of 'villains' in storybooks) that you are referring to,  the concept is relatively simple: narcissism.

So basically, "full of themselves"=narcissism.

 

Shocker #1: everyone's narcissistic...

...errrr at least to some limited extent or another.   That's right! When ever you or someone else is in pain, under a lot of stress, is horrifically grieved in some way, is incredibly angry/frustrated... it's narcissism in motion, from that point onward.

Narcissism is basically a coping mechanism to allow someone to recover from psychological trauma.

It's also a mental pattern that is established early in neonatal/fetal developmental stages. A baby can sometimes be quite a selfish little creature, after all.

However, if such a baby grows into a 'less than nurturing' environment, the baby grows  up while retaining that self-absorbed "ME! ME! ME!" attitude for the rest of it's life. It develops a narcissistic personality*. (The link is kind of TL;DR, but still relevant)

Such an individual NEVER sees themselves as "doing wrong" in the world. This is the type of individual does not understand how others see them, they simply understand that they  *WANT* to be perceived in a certain way.

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The conundrum of this entire thread is that once a person becomes "bad"... they usually never realizes how their actions affect others. They don't foresee the moral consequences of their behavior. This is because there wasn't anyone around to give them a solid understanding of "right" and "wrong".

And an even more mind boggling conundrum is supported by modern psychology:

Bad things cause bad people.

Case example: Aileen Wuornos

 

I also believe that, but the question is when. People often never change. As a beginner astrologer and son of an astrologer I see psychologic qualities that are either exaggerated, or subdued. People stagger from extreme to extreme, for example in one lifetime they never care about feelings of others and in another they slave for everyone's whims. Rarely the character trait is balanced. Why is that so, that can't be explained only by genetics or upbringing.

I was actually inspired by Paul Kammerer's mathemathical work Law of Seriality. (Das gesetz de serie) He formulated some revolutionary statements, like that system put into chaos by external force tends to eventually regain a new state similar to the previous form. Lower systems don't disappear, but are integrated into greater systems, and influence them. He practically gave a mathemathical basis for reincarnation, astrology and higher dimensions, a.k.a. esoteric higher realms.

We can use our psychic powers to support balance. I don't know if it's my karma (if I harmed that person in some past life) or if that person is just a jackass. So the psychic powers should be used for balance, in any form. The source of this power is an ability to cooperate with one's own soul, which is a way of personal development to perfection.

My mom had a problem at work with one person. She empowered the balance, and the result was a highly improbable accident with electricity that involved the person's son. Later events showed that my mom's work was correct and that person's work was faulty.

But there is a lot of ifs. I did what I could, but the best on this technique is, that it's done from soul's perspective. The soul is aware of all karmic relationships and does what is in the true best interest of everyone, i.e. including nothing if my request is not justified. (it seems my intuition says the permission was not given) If anything happens, you can let me know.

 

Just wanted to say that I pretty much agree with you. Thanks for your thoughts!

 

 

Good/Bad is a moral dichotomy, and it's difficult to apply all that effectively when a person (like yourself) is capable of critically thinking about the concepts being discussed. HOWEVER:

Well, sorry to disagree staunchly, but brain scans (MRI, I think) have been done to illustrate that a specific region of the brain is responsible for "right or wrong; consequences of my actions".

In sociopaths, the region is COMPLETELY inert. Nothing... not even a 'twilight glimmer' of radioglucose usage is present. These individuals have no understanding of right/wrong. Zero. Zilch. Nada. Nil.

They do understand aggression, threat assessment, and predatory behavior quite well.

 Two words off the top of my head:

Jerry. Falwell.

 

The man died happier than a vagrant from Detroit getting a lapdance on the house. 

 

What about Henry Kissinger? William Jefferson Clinton? Richard Cheney? Pat Robertson? Joseph Ratzinger? Ioseb Vissarionovich? Ronald & Nancy Reagan? Richard Nixon? 

 

I'm sorry, but no, I don't think bad people often receive the ends they ought to. We reward crooks & murderers so long as they're out robbing from the most vulnerable & killing the right people, and they live in fine company, fine housing & enjoy fine dining until they expire - leaving their grins behind to mock us & our delusions of 'justice'.