A defense of moral relativism

RatDog
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A defense of moral relativism

I recently had a class in business ethics.  At the end we to chose our own topic(long as it had to do with ethics) and write a paper on it.  I liked the way my paper turned out so I decided to post it.  

A defense of moral relativism 


 Moral relativism is often maligned, and perhaps for good reason. If all morals are relative then how can we determine which morals are the ones we should follow? Some people say that morels are based on cultural, and you can’t judge one culture by the standard of another. This perspective is easily criticized because we judge the moral standard of other countries all the time. In regards to cultural relativism one person wrote “According to you (at least the implication is there) the only mistake Hitler did was try to impose his standard on the rest of the world. So if he didn't do that, it would've been perfectly fine for him to commit genocide on his own people; making genocide perfectly moral to the German people.” ("Atheism As A Valid Worldview |." ). I won’t try to defend all views of moral relativism(I don't even know all view), but I will defend my own. To start with I will define relative morals to mean that morals have no truth value outside of the minds of the people who use them. This doesn’t mean that some people morals aren’t better then others, it just means that there is no universal standard by which to compare them. Critics of moral relativism often ask; if you can’t judge other people’s moral standards then how can you interact with them in any meaningful way? Will you simple go along with the ideals of whoever you are with at the time never taking any kind of a stance on a moral issue? If such a question were asked to me, my answer would be that people who operate under a moral relative world view have no inherent obligation to accept anyone else’s views. Just because I don’t believe there is universal moral truth doesn’t mean that I don’t posses my own moral truth. The problem most people seem to have with moral relativism is that from a relativistic moral world view you can’t see things out side of some perspective, or in other words there is no way to view the world objectively. You can look at things from someone else’s perspective, and you can look it from a cultural perspective, or your own perspective, but you can’t not have a perspective. It is impossible to see things without some kind of bias.  


It is believed by some that if there is no universal truth then there is no way to judge the moral standards of one person as being better then another, and that if morals are relative all statements of morality must be taken equally. Yet it does not follow logically that just because things are relative they are equal. An example to the contrary can easily be found in physics. In physics motion is relative. This means that there is no single reference frame by which the motion of all other bodies can be compared. In other words in physics there is no universal frame of reference. In essence there are a limitless number of frames of reference all of them equally valid. Now from this you may be thinking that because all objects frames of reference are equally valid it doesn’t matter from which frame of reference you view things, yet in physics there are other thing to take into consideration other then frame of reference; the most obvious is matter. Objects with mass expert force on each other which affect their motion, and how the motion of these objects is affected by force is controlled by their momentum. While all forms of reference in the universe may be equally valid they are not equally useful. As a being of matter within this universe I would be poorly served by considering the things about me in any frame of reference other then the one that I am sitting in. For some purposes it might be to my advantage to consider other frames of reference, but to ever ignore my own would make it impossible for me to do such simple thing as walk around normally. There are non relative rules that govern things in this relativistic universe I propose that there are rules that govern things in a moral universe as well, and not all frames of reference are equally useful.


In discussion of my reasoning it is necessary for me to create a few new terms. Moral forces will be defined as anything that acts on a person’s moral views in such a way as to bring about change. There are many examples of moral forces in this world. Some of the more common ones would include guilt, reason, empathy and desire. Another term I will need to describe my view is moral momentum. Moral momentum is the tendency of people’s moral values to resist change. Also I will need the term moral trajectory which describes a persons current morel views. In this model some people have parallel trajectories which mean that their morals don’t conflict with each other while others have trajectories that cause collision, which in this case are moral conflicts with each other. During these collision people’s moral momentum cause them to exert moral forces upon each other. Over time as they continuously exert moral forces on each other the moral trajectories of members of a society seems to come into equilibrium with each other. Also I need the concept of moral memes. A morel meme is hard to describe. To understand it first you must know what a regular meme is. Consider this; a person comes up with an idea. That person passes that idea on to another person who passes it onto another. Eventually as that idea is passed around it slowly changes. Maybe one person will add a new insight, and another person may make a song about it which effects how the idea is viewed. The idea is reproducing, mutating and in a way becoming a whole new animal. Dawkins, a famous writer talks about memes in his book Unweaving the Rainbow. In his book Dawkins describes memes as “Anything that spreads by imitation, as genes spread by bodily reproduction or by viral infection, is a meme.” This can include virtually everything from poems, to songs, to ideas or even to language itself (Dawkins 304). Basically what I think he is saying is that DNA is to the body as meme is to the mind. A moral meme is the same thing as a normal meme except it is about morality. In the example I am giving it is like the moral matter upon which the moral forces are acting. The last phrase I need is moral evolution. Moral evolution is the process by which moral memes are selected. As moral forces act upon moral memes some are reproduced, some mutate, and others die out and are forgotten. A good example of meme evolution can be seen in the game telephone which is played by a long line of people. The first person in the line will say something to the second and tell them to pass it on to the third, who will pass it on to the forth and so on until it reaches the end of the line. The point of this game is that when it reaches the end of the line it is never the same as it was at the beginning, and often times it isn’t even close. People will have made mistakes in duplicating the phrase. Maybe some one will have left out a word, or added a world, or maybe forgotten a whole sentence. An example of moral evolution is harder to show because people’s moral stances tend to change slowly, but I thing a good example would be the vastly different morals that existed a few centuries ago. You don’t have to go back centuries to see changes. Every generation has difference in their moral outlook. All older generations tend to view the morals of newer generations with suspicion, and newer generations tend to view the morals of older generations as outdated.


In the version of moral relativism that I am describing there is no universal point of view to describe morals. In fact there are a virtually limitless numbers of points of view, but that does mean that all morals must be held as equal. Any individual in this system is a part of the system and though a subject and a sources of all the forces that govern the system. As a part of the system they are not under any obligation to consider the system from some point outside of the system. The only thing that makes sense in this model is for them to consider the system from something close to their own moral trajectory. For them to consider a view too far outside of their own trajectory is to risk no longer being able to make sense of the moral universe in which they live.


In my version of moral relativism the moral memes undergo the process that I call moral evolution. In this process the moral memes in their environment are subjected to forces that cause them to either flourish, decline, or even die out. This model does not make a distinction between ‘good’ moral forces and ‘bad’ moral forces. There are many moral forces that can cause effects that are not perhaps good for humanity as a whole. An example of one such force is hate. Hate has a tendency to affect people’s morals, but it is rarely good for society as a whole. Luckily unlike real physics, the mode I described is not filled with simple passive objects subjected to the whim of whatever comes there way. In this model people have will which is perhaps the most important moral force of all. Will allows people to respond to the moral forces around them in such a way as to allow them to alter the moral universe in which they live. I would argue that it is because of human will that over time morals have generally evolved toward the betterment of man kind.


My stance is this; morals are relative, but so what. Just because there are no universal truth doesn’t mean you can’t take a stance on anything. Just because an argument isn’t the only argument doesn’t mean it has no merit, and just because my morals are not universal doesn’t mean they have no value. I have made no argument toward moral relativism being the truth in the first place, but if it is true I don't think it is such a horrible thing.

Works Cited

"Atheism As A Valid Worldview |." The Rational Response Squad. Web. 01 Dec. 2009. <http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/17332?page=2>.


Dawkins, Richard. Unweaving the Rainbow : Science, Delusion, and the Appetite for Wonder. Boston: Houghton Mifflin, 1998. Print.

 

 


 


Marquis
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My own personal beef with

My own personal beef with whatever "morals" have you... is that it is quite irrelevant to have opinions about what is right and wrong behaviour outside of that which can loosely be termed as "natural law". Let's not be silly. All reasonably healthy and functional adults know what's right and wrong. (We just don't want to admit it.) We know what is what in the basic, common sense of things. We really do. We know. Here's the limit and if you cross it you WILL get hurt. Just as easy as that, yessir. That's how it works. For real. Governments or no governments. Law or no law.

There is no such thing as "morals". No ideas. No divine revelations. Not even any intelligent programs.

Neither relative nor non relative. There is only nature.

All "morals" are lies - whether or not they are "relativistic".

They are default commands that can be used (usurped) by unscrupulous power players.

Trying to be "a good boy (or girl) with respects to whatever morals you have in your contemporary society is like trying to be "a good nigger for massa" in Harriet Beecher Stowe's novel "Uncle Tom's Cabin". All you can do is that which your heart tells you is the right thing to do. Anything short of that is being a liar. Or maybe even a thief, a scoundrel, and a murderer. Or in support of such people. Who knows?

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Hambydammit
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 I'm going to nitpick a few

 I'm going to nitpick a few things, not so much to bust your balls, but just help you clarify I few things more effectively.

Quote:
To start with I will define relative morals to mean that morals have no truth value outside of the minds of the people who use them.

In fairness, this could be criticized as an outdated definition.  It assumes that minds are somehow "separate entities" removed from the physical universe.  In truth, outside of the mind are the genes that provide the foundation for emergence of mind.  Genes define the outer boundaries of the human moral template.  So... there are actually loose truth values outside of mind.  (In other words, when a blastocyst is still in the womb, it already has the complete genetic template for a mind that has not yet formed.)

Quote:
 There are non relative rules that govern things in this relativistic universe I propose that there are rules that govern things in a moral universe as well, and not all frames of reference are equally useful.

I like this analogy a lot.  Another way of saying it is this:  Many people equivocate "relative" with "arbitrary."  That is, they believe that if there is not a single measure for a thing, then any measures will be equally useful.  However, relative and arbitrary are quite different, and this is just a mistake in critical thinking, not a representation of reality.

Quote:
 Moral evolution is the process by which moral memes are selected.

Tricky, tricky territory here.  I don't like the term "moral evolution."  What I believe you're really talking about is moral adaptation.  Evolution implies a set of principles that I don't think you can defend.  Consider that I -- a non-evolving discreet entity -- can adapt.  When in Rome, I eat Roman-style and drive on the Roman side of the road.  My genes don't need to change for this.  Over the course of a lifetime, my morals may adapt, and this adaptation my be part of a chain reaction that is part of a societal change of values, but this is not an example of moral evolution.  There is not a unit of "moral selection" which has been altered.  It's just the same old moral framework doing what it does.

This is getting dangerously close to social evolution... which is nonsense, frankly.  We could be thrown into a dark age if our carbon fuel ran out, and the next thing you know, women would be property, and anyone without a big stick would be a slave.  

Out of curiosity, have you ever read, "The Lucifer Principle"?  If not, I highly recommend it for a thorough discussion of "evil" as it relates to human society and progress.

Anyway, those are just my thoughts.  Hope they're helpful!

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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I think the objection you'll

I think the objection you'll most likely hear from many people is that this view of meta-ethical relativism is excessively conservative in that it is incompatible with normative ethical inquiry. If it's true then moral issues can be solve just by determining what the prevailing moral beliefs of a culture are.

It renders the concept of moral progress unintelligible. For example, public execution by torture was once morally permissible but now it's not. Most would probably consider that "progress" in the sense that people believed something to be true then recognized that it was false. But if meta-ethical relativism is true then public execution by torture actually was morally permissible.

We may be inclined to examine the arguments for and against the permissibility of such activity, but that sort of investigative strategy is incompatible with this view because moral truths are true by convention. So there's really no place to talk about progress or reform when any change can only be described as morally neutral.

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Gauche wrote:public

Gauche wrote:

public execution by torture was once morally permissible

 

I would argue against that and say that "moral" is irrelevant in this context.

Public execution by torture served no other function than to install fear in a population.

As Machiavelli observed: A prince should strive to be both loved and feared, but if he has to choose, fear is the safer option.

For much the same reason, there are still countries in this world where "the death penalty" is considered acceptable.

It doesn't seem to do anything with respects to the actual crime rate in a society, but it installs fear of the government.

Fear, which is supposed to make people hesitate before the authority of the lawmakers, and choose obedience.

 

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Gauche
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Marquis wrote: I would

Marquis wrote:

 

I would argue against that and say that "moral" is irrelevant in this context.

Public execution by torture served no other function than to install fear in a population.

That's not really true though. It was also entertainment.

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RatDog wrote:In the version

RatDog wrote:


In the version of moral relativism that I am describing there is no universal point of view to describe morals. In fact there are a virtually limitless numbers of points of view, but that does mean that all morals must be held as equal. Any individual in this system is a part of the system and though a subject and a sources of all the forces that govern the system. As a part of the system they are not under any obligation to consider the system from some point outside of the system. The only thing that makes sense in this model is for them to consider the system from something close to their own moral trajectory. For them to consider a view too far outside of their own trajectory is to risk no longer being able to make sense of the moral universe in which they live.


My stance is this; morals are relative, but so what. Just because there are no universal truth doesn’t mean you can’t take a stance on anything. Just because an argument isn’t the only argument doesn’t mean it has no merit, and just because my morals are not universal doesn’t mean they have no value. I have made no argument toward moral relativism being the truth in the first place, but if it is true I don't think it is such a horrible thing.

 

 

These paragraphs, central to the theme of the paper, present positions which are self-refuting. The first paragraph says "As a part of the system they are not under any obligation to consider the system from some point outside of the system" but this statement is made from 'outside the system" and is allegedly describing everyone else's degree of moral obligation within the system or systems.  Also, the statement "not under any moral obligation" is a universal moral statement in itself, one that everyone else is said to fit under. Look at it this way: do these statements apply to everyone, or just you? If they apply to everyone, you've just made a universal moral system that everyone fits within, If they only apply to you, then others can have a position exactly opposite of yours and it would be OK. It alleges to apply to everone, so it's self-refuting.

 

The second paragraph says "there are no universal truth." This is a statement held to be universally true, and is therefore self-refuting.  

 


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I agree with Hamby and

I agree with Hamby and Humble in what they say.  I would also add the following in regards to moral relativism.  Morals are relative in two ways: relative to the definitions of the culture/society that performs them, and relative to the circumstances that may create a moral dillema.

For the first, I have already posted, but I will reiterate.  Let's assume there is a culture that does not have property rights.  Everything around them is communal; food, clothing, shelter.  You then explain to them how stealing is wrong.  Problem is, stealing cannot exist for this culture; no one owns anything to steal.  Because the idea of stealing goes against the culture's definitions about how property is used, the moral imperative becomes moot.  How can something be considered immoral if it isn't even possible?

As for the second, there is the classic example of eating dinner with an african american in the south during the 1950s.  A knock comes at your door.  You answer the door to find 5 men in white robes and white hoods.  They are clearly members of the KKK.  They ask if you have any "coloreds" in the house.  Here you have two choices; you can either lie (which is normally considered immoral), knowing they will go away, but may put your family in danger if you are caught.  Or you can tell the truth, which will surely lead to your friends torture and/or death (which is considered immoral).  In the first instance, your are committing the immoral act of lying, which may harm your family.  In the second instance, you tell the truth, but you are most surely going to cause harm and/or death to another human, which is an immoral act.  Here the moral answer comes from within.  Choosing to protect your family or taking a risk and trying to protect your friend.

So, the first case would be relative to the definitions that are agreed by both parties, while the second is relative to the situation.

The other angle is what would be needed to create moral absolutism.  To create this, there would need to be a unified worldview.  The only way to achieve this is for everyone to think and feel the same way on every subject.  Not only is this an arduous task, I don't think it would lead to any real progress intellectually.

I do appreciate you sharing your paper with everyone! 

Dolt:"Evolution is just a theory."
Me:"Yes, so is light and gravity. Pardon me while I flash this strobe while dropping a bowling ball on your head. This shouldn't bother you; after all, these are just theories."