What about vegetarian burgers?

julio
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What about vegetarian burgers?

Look, there are vegetarian burgers, I'm told!
Would you go for them [in a dietary crisis, that is]?
No meat, no eggs, no oil, no sauce, no chips, no nothing
except real veggies and some meat imitation...
Is it that disgusting, really?


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I've eaten them. They are

I've eaten them. They are unsatisfying. They do fill your stomach though. While they aren't disgusting, they lack the satisfaction that is gained by eating beef. Meet eaters here probably know what I'm talking about.

In a true crisis (ie. a doctor demands that I don't eat meat because of a terrible health problem), I'de eat them. In any other circumstance I'de stick to real hamburgers.

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:3

 I have a few vegan friends that only eat Boca Burgers, Morningstar, and the like. Some of them aren't that bad, but the corndogs are a lot tastier.

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I am largely vegetarian,

I am largely vegetarian, rarely eat red meat.

Most recent red meat was some kangaroo meat with salad at a local Austrian (!? - not Australian!) restaurant, as much for curiosity as anything. It was fine.

I get my protein mainly from various vege protein 'burger' things, sausages, slices etc, plus eggs, beans, and fish.

Especially when used with various dressings and sauces and cheese, I really do enjoy my main meal, in the morning.

I have nothing against dairy, but I try to keep to low fat, low cholesterol where practical.

Extra virgin olive oil is entirely vege , and no down sides that I am aware of. Chips are still really vege of course, should avoid saturated cooking fat or oil. Although ordinary potatoes are not the best veges.

I genuinely do not crave red meat. I used to eat a fair bit, mainly because my parents served it a lot.

My father ate a lot of it, but he went out with bowel cancer, which has been linked to heavy consumption of red meat with low veges. Probably mainly with people genetically susceptible, but he was my father...

So that was a significant and I reckon very rational motive for largely giving up red meat.

I am concerned about the sustainability of fishing, so I try to stick to small fish low down on the food chain - sardines, herrings. I venture up the chain a bit, for variety, to mackerel, and occasional tuna and salmon. Keeping low on the food chain keeps the potential mercury exposure lower, too.

The bulk of my breakfast is a wide assortment of microwave-steamed chopped fresh and frozen veges.

 

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Bob I admire your food

Bob I admire your food choices.  

 

Julio, I have eaten Boca Burgers and would gladly eat them again.  I prefer to add some pickles and ketchup to the vegan burgers, for that matter I prefer to add them to any type of burger.

 

 

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Vegetables are what food

Vegetables are what food eats. Eye-wink

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Damn Right Vastet

If we aren't supposed to eat Pigs and Cows then why are they made out of Bacon and Steak?


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Well, I have had veggie

Well, I have had veggie burgers. They really are not that great. As Jorm observed, they can fill you up but it is not a satisfying meal. Honestly, I have also tried a few MREs and I would rather have those than veggie burgers.

 

Even so, it is certainly possible to make a decent meal without going for beef at every seating. Personally, I am partial to steamed vegetables over rice. If you make sure that your meal has some beans/mushrooms/etc. You can get all of your protein requirements. Also, the idea of a “complete protein” is not quite all that some people make it out to be. Sure, you need all of the essential amino acids somewhere in your diet but it certainly does not have to be the full set at every meal.

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If you don't like Veggie burgers......

You're buying them at the wrong place.

www.thecounterburger.com/

 

Not affiliated in any way, just a happy customer. Come for the burgers, stay for the hot chicks......

 

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Abu Lahab wrote:You're

Abu Lahab wrote:

You're buying them at the wrong place.

www.thecounterburger.com/

I'd like to have one of them near me.

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Sapient wrote:Abu Lahab

Sapient wrote:

Abu Lahab wrote:

You're buying them at the wrong place.

www.thecounterburger.com/

I'd like to have one of them near me.

 

If you're willing to travel, Sapient, I'll happily buy you a burger of your choice.

 

Could be a great place to meet for an RR Group Hug?

 

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Most red meat, as it is

Most red meat, as it is currently raised, is really bad for the environment. I almost never purchase it, but I'll eat it if I'm invited to someone's house and they're serving it.

My wife doesn't eat meat of any kind, though she does eat seafood. So we get most of our protein through various veggie-meat products and seafood. Any of the veggie-burger products are typically fine with the right kinds of condiments.

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I should invite you all over

I should invite you all over for a BBQ. You'll be the course of honour.

A'hem, GUESTS of honour.

> >
< <

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Abu Lahab wrote:Sapient

Abu Lahab wrote:

Sapient wrote:

Abu Lahab wrote:

You're buying them at the wrong place.

www.thecounterburger.com/

I'd like to have one of them near me.

If you're willing to travel, Sapient, I'll happily buy you a burger of your choice.

Could be a great place to meet for an RR Group Hug?

 

RR group hug = Rational Responders I assume?  And who else is in the group?

 

Which location are you near, I plan to visit Jake in Santa Ana, CA within the next year (I think).  I could add it to my stop list.

 

EDIT: COOL!  They have Philadelphia on their "coming soon" page!

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geirj wrote:Most red meat,

geirj wrote:

Most red meat, as it is currently raised, is really bad for the environment.

well, my family has raised beef cattle in eastern kentucky for generations, along with hundreds of other families, and i don't see that.  i suppose you're referring to the south american method of clearing rainforests to make pastures?

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
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:o

iwbiek wrote:

geirj wrote:

Most red meat, as it is currently raised, is really bad for the environment.

well, my family has raised beef cattle in eastern kentucky for generations, along with hundreds of other families, and i don't see that.  i suppose you're referring to the south american method of clearing rainforests to make pastures?

 

Probably referring to waste of resources and carbon emissions.

 

Beef is worth the equivelant of something like ten times the amount of vegetables, that are eaten by the cattle. Especially considering most cattle are fed corn.

 

It's been a long time since I looked at this, so I may be off a bit. Going entirely off memory here.

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Vastet wrote:I should invite

Vastet wrote:
I should invite you all over for a BBQ. You'll be the course of honour. A'hem, GUESTS of honour. > > < <

I haven't had a long pork bbq in forever. You supply the grill and guests, I'll bring the Chianti and fava beans.

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Some people gorge meat

Some people gorge meat burgers together with potato chips, and bread, which is a bad combination [bread with potatoes].
But if the simple burger is to be accompanied by garlic, onion, lettuce, wild rocket, tomato, and chillies, it’s ok, I guess [not too much sauce, please].
The rule is: no bread and potatoes together.


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julio wrote:
Some people gorge meat burgers together with potato chips, and bread, which is a bad combination [bread with potatoes]. But if the simple burger is to be accompanied by garlic, onion, lettuce, wild rocket, tomato, and chillies, it’s ok, I guess [not too much sauce, please]. The rule is: no bread and potatoes together.

 

I disagree.

 

Have you never had a club sandwich and potato chips? 

 

Have you been to a Subway? What gets paired with the sandwiches there? How about Quiznos? Steak Escape? Panera's? Penn Station?

 

 

For that matter, Five Guys, In-n-out, and every burger joint in history? They serve potatos with your burger.

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julio wrote:The rule is: no

julio wrote:
The rule is: no bread and potatoes together.

jesus christ, man, i'm a fucking CELT.  i can't follow that rule.  that's all my ancestors had.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
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ClockCat wrote:julio

ClockCat wrote:

julio wrote:
Some people gorge meat burgers together with potato chips, and bread, which is a bad combination [bread with potatoes]. But if the simple burger is to be accompanied by garlic, onion, lettuce, wild rocket, tomato, and chillies, it’s ok, I guess [not too much sauce, please]. The rule is: no bread and potatoes together.

 

I disagree.

 

Have you never had a club sandwich and potato chips? 

 

Have you been to a Subway? What gets paired with the sandwiches there? How about Quiznos? Steak Escape? Panera's? Penn Station?

 

 

For that matter, Five Guys, In-n-out, and every burger joint in history? They serve potatos with your burger.

You are wrong. Im guessing you are a fan of tomato sauce? maybe mustard? Im sure you don't eat your chips plain with that bread? Potatoes and bread do not go well... tomato sauce etc. can go well though. Ever had a plain potato  sandwich..... disgusting.

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Look, I know for a fact that

Look, I know for a fact that combining potatoes chips with bread is a BAD combination. Go research it and then tell us what you found.
Avoid that mixture, to help your stomach functioning well.
Either bread or chips with your burger, but not together, I'm afraid.
Those subway "entrepreneurs" know very little about the ART of food combination for your good health [and couldn't care less for what you eat].


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:3

Tapey wrote:

ClockCat wrote:

julio wrote:
Some people gorge meat burgers together with potato chips, and bread, which is a bad combination [bread with potatoes]. But if the simple burger is to be accompanied by garlic, onion, lettuce, wild rocket, tomato, and chillies, it’s ok, I guess [not too much sauce, please]. The rule is: no bread and potatoes together.

 

I disagree.

 

Have you never had a club sandwich and potato chips? 

 

Have you been to a Subway? What gets paired with the sandwiches there? How about Quiznos? Steak Escape? Panera's? Penn Station?

 

 

For that matter, Five Guys, In-n-out, and every burger joint in history? They serve potatos with your burger.

You are wrong. Im guessing you are a fan of tomato sauce? maybe mustard? Im sure you don't eat your chips plain with that bread? Potatoes and bread do not go well... tomato sauce etc. can go well though. Ever had a plain potato  sandwich..... disgusting.

No YOU are wrong. Yes I do eat the chips plain with a club sandwich. Why wouldn't I? o.O

 

I don't think I've ever eaten tomato sauce with potatos.

 

Also, I don't know anyone that ate a potato sandwich. I didn't even know people ate that. Potato goes well with bread though, and between french fries, chips, hashbrowns and a host of other things, is nearly always served paired along with or inside sandwiches.

 

Look at those french fries. Mmm. Potato.

 

Oh look at that steak burger. It appears to have a lovely potato hat.

 

What was this missing? Oh yes, potato.

Is that...why yes it is a hashbrown inside.

Oh look at those steak fries.

 

 

 

In conclusion: POTATO IS AWESOME WITH SANDWICHES. That is all.

 


 

 

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:3

julio wrote:
Look, I know for a fact that combining potatoes chips with bread is a BAD combination. Go research it and then tell us what you found. Avoid that mixture, to help your stomach functioning well. Either bread or chips with your burger, but not together, I'm afraid. Those subway "entrepreneurs" know very little about the ART of food combination for your good health [and couldn't care less for what you eat].

 

Apparently few know about this "art" then, because potatos served with or on sandwiches are a worldwide phenomenon.

 

Belgium sandwich.

Greek Souvlaki.

I easily found hundreds of different commonly eaten foods all over France, Italy, and many other nations that all disagree with you and say potatos are delicious next to bread and are devoured as such.

 

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:3

Also, please explain this.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potato_bread


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i have to concur.  one can

i have to concur.  one can often find french fries slapped on top of burgers at snack stands in train and bus stations throughout europe.  healthy?  of course not.  you want to be healthy, don't eat fries at all.  but fries as a burger topping between buns are delicious and have never caused me any particular stomach problems.  hell, even jamie oliver, the guy who tried to make british school cafeterias more healthy, did an episode on burgers and fries.  and yes, he used bread.

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--Hunter S. Thompson


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White bread and potatoes are

White bread and potatoes are both starchy with little fibre, which is not particular good for in large quantities, but there is nothing wrong with the combination as such. At least I can't find any particular reference which claims that with authority. It does seem to have got around as folklore, so there are a lot of references explaining why that folklore is wrong.

It is the total amount of such starch which matters, not whether it is potato, bread, or a mixture.

 

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ClockCat wrote:   iwbiek

ClockCat wrote:

 

iwbiek wrote:

 

geirj wrote:
Most red meat, as it is currently raised, is really bad for the environment.

 

well, my family has raised beef cattle in eastern kentucky for generations, along with hundreds of other families, and i don't see that. i suppose you're referring to the south american method of clearing rainforests to make pastures?

 

Probably referring to waste of resources and carbon emissions.

 

Beef is worth the equivelant of something like ten times the amount of vegetables, that are eaten by the cattle. Especially considering most cattle are fed corn.

 

It's been a long time since I looked at this, so I may be off a bit. Going entirely off memory here.

 

I am going to have to go with CC and geirj on this one. I have looked into the American food producing industries and they are pretty bad, not only for the environment but also for the consumer as well. The only way they are any good at all is for the shareholders of the various companies.

 

I haven't really looked too deeply into how other countries produce foods but I would tend to assume that they are probably as bad, if perhaps in different ways from what we have going on.

 

Since we are talking about beef here, let me stick with that as an example. The beef that our great grand parents ate was considerably different from what we have today. Time was that cows were allowed to walk around outdoors eating what was normal for them (grass mostly) until they were ready for the cattle drive to get them to market. Along the way, they would walk off quite a bit of stored fat.

 

Today, the beef industry has managed to convince most consumers that very fatty grain fed beef is the luxury commodity that everyone ought to aspire to. Since few people ever question where their food comes from, all is well with the industry.

 

Ever wonder how beef gets that way? I hope you are not eating right now because this is pretty gross.

 

Where we used to walk full grown cattle to the few stock yards/slaughter houses that were located near major transportation centers, today the slaughter houses are all centrally located in Kansas and the cattle are brought in when they are only half way grown. Then they are confined to pens where they are fed a diet of nearly pure grain to force them to pack on calories and grow to market size in half the time that they would in nature. Since they are not allowed to walk around, they build up and retain huge stores of fat that they would not in nature.

 

Also, since they are not allowed to walk around, they spend the last few months of their lives standing ankle deep in their own shit. Hence the reason why you may hear about beef cattle being fed huge doses of antibiotics. It is not to make them grow faster (that is what genetically engineered bovine growth hormone is for BTW), it is to keep them from developing massive infections.

 

As far as bad for the environment goes, with all of this going on, one simply cannot farm down hill/wind/river from the feed lots, at least not for anything that would be a problem if it were exposed to large doses of cow shit. Crops that are meant to be eaten raw such as lettuce/spinach/celery are especially off limits in this regard.

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But then I worry about the

But then I worry about the many cockroaches swallowed by [or trapped in] the mixers... when the burgers are processed...!
Do you think there are no such insects in processed burgers?...


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julio wrote:
But then I worry about the many cockroaches swallowed by [or trapped in] the mixers... when the burgers are processed...! Do you think there are no such insects in processed burgers?...

 

 

People eat on average like 1-2 pounds of insects a year. I'm afraid I don't see why this is a problem? Other than "ewww" what harm does it do? Why worry?

 

 

I'm much more afraid of transmittable spongiform in beef than I am bugs.

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 I like Boca burgers ~ put

 I like Boca burgers ~ put some cheese, ketchup, and horseradish on them and they are good to go!

However, we do eat quite a bit of meat as my husband loves to use his smoker ~ pulled pork mmmmm ~ 

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I will maintain [till proved

I will maintain [till proved wrong Smiling] that potatoes with bread is unhealthy combination.
Sure, in burgers they are camouflaged with sauces and other ingredients, in a taste deception, but...
[All in all, hamburgers are unhealthy, for their industrial preparation, processing, storage and all.]
I like hamburgers, but, honestly, I avoid them.
[I don't trust the processing industry ... besides the cockroaches, that is...]


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julio wrote:Look, I know for

julio wrote:
Look, I know for a fact that combining potatoes chips with bread is a BAD combination. Go research it and then tell us what you found. Avoid that mixture, to help your stomach functioning well. Either bread or chips with your burger, but not together, I'm afraid. Those subway "entrepreneurs" know very little about the ART of food combination for your good health [and couldn't care less for what you eat].

I will look into the 'bad' combination between chips and bread ~ my favorite quick sandwich is peanut butter and jelly with chips. 

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:3

Renee Obsidianwords wrote:

julio wrote:
Look, I know for a fact that combining potatoes chips with bread is a BAD combination. Go research it and then tell us what you found. Avoid that mixture, to help your stomach functioning well. Either bread or chips with your burger, but not together, I'm afraid. Those subway "entrepreneurs" know very little about the ART of food combination for your good health [and couldn't care less for what you eat].

I will look into the 'bad' combination between chips and bread ~ my favorite quick sandwich is peanut butter and jelly with chips. 

 

I like tuna sandwiches with chips. Any sandwich is usually good with chips, especially something like a club.

 

If potatos and bread are bad with eachother, I'd like an explanation still for potato bread from julio. It is widely eaten, and is bread baked with potato in it.

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Potato bread is not widely

Potato bread is not widely used here in Johannesburg.
You can get it at specialised shops, I think.
As an important rule in my diet, I AVOID mixing those two foods.
I learned that many years ago, when I read a diet book.
There must be some reference somewhere on the net to substantiate the thing.
People suffer many ailments these days, and one reason is BAD COMBINATIONS of foods.
I don't thing I'm wrong, here.


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julio wrote:I will maintain

julio wrote:
I will maintain [till proved wrong Smiling] that potatoes with bread is unhealthy combination. Sure, in burgers they are camouflaged with sauces and other ingredients, in a taste deception, but... [All in all, hamburgers are unhealthy, for their industrial preparation, processing, storage and all.] I like hamburgers, but, honestly, I avoid them. [I don't trust the processing industry ... besides the cockroaches, that is...]

I'd like to take a stab at debunking this, although it may have some merit in certain circumstances.  Potatos are high in starch, which means they are complex carbohydrates.  Bread can vary in its content of carbohydrates.  White bread is a simple sugar... it is so easily broken down that if you leave white bread in your mouth for a minute you will taste sugar.  Carbs are all eventually broken down to glucose (and in the end game so are fats and proteins), but the easier the food is broken down, the worse it is for you.  As in, simple carbs, (pure glucose) can diffuse directly into your bloodstream before anything of substance can reach your small intestine (where all nutrient absorption actually takes place).  So, IMO, if white bread is almost wholly broken down before reaching the small intestine, there would be no difference as to whether you ate a pixie stick and a potato or a piece of white bread and a potato... so the lesson here is eat better bread (Anything with whole grain/whole wheat/rye, etc etc)... Fact is that most restaurants serve white bread, so I don't see it as being a problem.

However, if you did eat a 12 grain whole wheat with french fries or potato chips, I'm not sure as to whether the mechanism would be harmful to your stomach.... although it is important to remember that the stomach doesn't actually digest.  It's more of a conduit to the small intestine, breaking food down into simpler terms for the SI to absorb the nutrients, but no actual absorption happens in the stomach (hence why people w/ their stomach removed still have perfectly normal digestion).  I think that by eating this combination, the body may have problem breaking down the high content of complex carbohydrates for sure, but I can't see how it would hurt the stomach?

 

And in terms of burgers... when a single McDonalds burger was completely analyzed on average there were: a) 100 different cows DNA in a single patty  b)mealworms c) Insects

enjoy!

 


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Thanks for the explanation.

Thanks for the explanation. Appreciated.
As for McDonald's, believe me, I have never eaten one, though my sons love them. On the other hand, the ice cream seems to be ok.
But I am always wondering about how clean is the kitchen.


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Rdklep8:   Your chemistry

Rdklep8:

 

Your chemistry is fucked.

 

For our purpose, there are three type of molecules that we need to consider.

 

Amino acids are the building blocks of proteins.

 

Sugars are the building blocks of starches (and both are considered to be carbohydrates).

 

Fatty acids combine with glycerol to produce lipids. Lipids which are liquid at room temperature are called oils and lipids which are solid at room temperature are called fats.

 

The more complicated molecules are broken down in your body to the simpler ones but they do not generally change from one type to another.

 

What you are trying to get at is that chemical changes either require energy input (endothermic) or produce usable energy (exothermic). Generally, the process of building a complex molecule from the simpler ones is endothermic and the process of breaking down complex molecules to simpler ones ix exothermic.

 

So yes, your body can break down protein to produce energy. While it is quite similar to breaking down starches to produce sugars, the end result of breaking down a protein is amino acids.

 

Also, the reason why you may find a sweet taste to a bit of bread can be accounted for in the fact that most bread recipes have a small amount of sugar to help get the yeast started.

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Now, as far as potatoes and

Now, as far as potatoes and bread being an unhealthy combination. Not really. You need a certain amount of simple sugars in your diet as they are the main fuel that your body runs on. You can get the major part of those sugars from starches such as bread, potatoes, corn and rice.

 

However, in the developed world, it is quite common these days for people to have too much starch in their diet. This is the major reason why diseases such as obesity and diabetes are on the rise today. As I noted above, your body can “burn” most complex molecules for energy but it tends to do so in the order that relates to how much energy can be provided.

 

Sugars are the most dense form of energy that one normally eats and your body will burn them easily. After that, your body will burn the lipid molecules. Hence, if you are eating too much starch, your body will tend to store the lipids as fat reserves and you will gain weight.

 

If you eat a very low fat diet but one that is high in carbs, you will probably not lose much weight because your body is getting plenty of energy from the sugars that you are eating. This is the major reason why today's weight loss programs then to be lower in carbohydrates than those of a few decades ago. Basically, if your body cannot get enough energy from carbohydrates, then it will have to burn off some of the fat reserves to keep running.

 

Interestingly, your body can also burn proteins but that is basically the least dense energy source available and the last one to burn. Hence the reason why famine victims look wasted and body builders eat lots of protein.

 

As relates to mixing two similar foods such as potatoes and bread, it should be fine as long as the total amount of carbohydrates you eat is in line with what you need. The same would hold true if you wanted to eat corn and rice in the same meal.

 

Also, as I noted several posts up, the idea of combining different types of foods in the same meal (or not combining them in this case) is a myth. Sure, there are people who say that beans and rice provide all of the essential amino acids (generally called a “complete protein” but that fails to take into account that any protein is stripped down to amino acids during digestion and rebuilt by your body as needed). However, for dietary purposes, if you are eating regularly, it really does not matter if you have bean with breakfast and rice with dinner. You are still getting beans and rice in the same day. Ditto “bad combinations” of foods. If you had a double portion of fries with your burger, you could just have a salad for dinner and you would offset the carbohydrate load on your system to a major degree (unless of course you already have a disease like diabetes or hypoglycemia).

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Answers in Gene Simmons

Answers in Gene Simmons wrote:

Rdklep8:

 

Your chemistry is fucked.

 

For our purpose, there are three type of molecules that we need to consider.

 

Amino acids are the building blocks of proteins.

 

Sugars are the building blocks of starches (and both are considered to be carbohydrates).

 

Fatty acids combine with glycerol to produce lipids. Lipids which are liquid at room temperature are called oils and lipids which are solid at room temperature are called fats.

 

The more complicated molecules are broken down in your body to the simpler ones but they do not generally change from one type to another.

 

What you are trying to get at is that chemical changes either require energy input (endothermic) or produce usable energy (exothermic). Generally, the process of building a complex molecule from the simpler ones is endothermic and the process of breaking down complex molecules to simpler ones ix exothermic.

 

So yes, your body can break down protein to produce energy. While it is quite similar to breaking down starches to produce sugars, the end result of breaking down a protein is amino acids.

 

Also, the reason why you may find a sweet taste to a bit of bread can be accounted for in the fact that most bread recipes have a small amount of sugar to help get the yeast started.

 

 

You are correct, proteins are broken down to amino acids at their most basic form.

But, when the body demands energy, proteins and fats are broken down into simple glucose through gluconeogenesis.  It is fairly common when atp demands are low in anaerobic circumstances.   That is, carbs don't typically turn to proteins, but lipids and proteins can be turned into gycogen(carb storage) or glucose fairly easily... that's what I was getting at

Amino acids are needed for the krebs/ETC aerobically, so some proteins are broken down in AAs in order for energy production to go on, but AA are not responsible for the direct production of energy.  That is the job of glucose. 

 

I think you just forgot about the process of gluconeogenesis..

and the sweet taste while leaving bread in your mouth for a short time is that saliva breaks down simple carbohydrates and turns them into glucose.  So, if you leave white bread in your mouth, it will become sugar.


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 Gene and Rdklep, On a

 Gene and Rdklep,

On a similarly related topic to the last two posts, what is your take on the following statement a friend gave me in regards to working out?  And could you expand any further?

 

"You'll want to watch when you are doing your cardio. Cardio burns up all your stored glycogen before your body switches to burning stored fat, so you should do cardio when your glycogen is already low: either first thing in the morning before eating, or right after weights. A 20 min run when your glycogen is already depleted burns as much fat as a 40 min run starting with full glycogen. Conversely, weights without stored glycogen is less effective, so doing cardio right before weights makes both significantly less effective. It also instructs your body to prioritize endurance over mass, which at this stage you don't want, as I said before."

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Sapient wrote:RR group hug =

Sapient wrote:

RR group hug = Rational Responders I assume?  And who else is in the group?

 

Which location are you near, I plan to visit Jake in Santa Ana, CA within the next year (I think).  I could add it to my stop list.

 

I'm in East LA but if we have enough time to plan it I'm sure we could get a group together and visit any of the ones near me. Studio City and Santa Monica are the ones I go to most often.

 

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The only thing I know for

The only thing I know for sure about this topic is that the stored glycogen in your body is sufficient to sustain 2 hours of moderate exercise.  The theory is true that you would burn fat reserves faster if glycogen was depleted, but that would take a long time (more than i'm willing to dedicate) to do so.  And if you deplete your glycogen storage... that means your creatine phosphate storage is gone too, so lifting weights would be a tall order.  A combination of weight lifting (largely muscular anaerobic low rep/high high) and cardio (high rep/low resistance) acts on your musculoskeletal system differently, so a combination of the two is way more beneficial than just one or the other. 

Just thinking about it from a physical standpoint, I would guess that he is correct in the that order in term of being able to complete both to the best of your ability and get the most out of it (I sure can't lift as much weight after I run)... but you aren't going to burn your glycogen stores just from a jog 

But if you truly are focused more on mass than endurance, then it is how you lift that is the deciding factor, not when you lift.  If you are trying to get "jacked", you are going to want to perform explosive weight exercise with high weights.... bench press is easiest to explain as everyone does it.  You would want to decrease repetitions and increase weight as the set goes on.  The key point, however, is to NOT be able to do anymore.  As in, if you are trying to do a set of 10 reps as your first set, ideally you want your 10th repetition to be the last rep you can physically accomplish.  The next set, 8 should be all that you can possible accomplish, and 6 or 4 on the last set... That is ONLY if you are focused on gaining mass though


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julio wrote:Thanks for the

julio wrote:
Thanks for the explanation. Appreciated.
As for McDonald's, believe me, I have never eaten one, though my sons love them. On the other hand, the ice cream seems to be ok.
But I am always wondering about how clean is the kitchen.

Very. It was one of my first jobs, it is their highest priority. A McD's kitchen is a thousand times cleaner than yours, at any given moment.

And we really do need to stop the green revolution here. peta would lose material (they'd lie about it, but investigation would prove them liars), cows would be healthier, and more land would be available for crop for us. Not to mention pollution.

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ClockCat wrote:  Also, I

ClockCat wrote:


 


 

Also, I don't know anyone that ate a potato sandwich. I didn't even know people ate that. Potato goes well with bread though, and between french fries, chips, hashbrowns and a host of other things, is nearly always served paired along with or inside sandwiches.

The reason you haven't had a potato sandwich is because it would suck, in other words the to do not go together unless there is something else, if that is the case it is not that potatoes go well with bread it is the something else. The thing i said was Potato and bread don't go together. Potatoes bread and steak might though. Bread and potato alone   

ClockCat wrote:

In conclusion: POTATO IS AWESOME WITH SANDWICHES. That is all.

 

 

Potato on a sandwich is used only as a filler, it is not there to add to the taste. That is what sif water gherkins are for. Potato is there just to fill you up.

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julio wrote:But then I worry

julio wrote:
But then I worry about the many cockroaches swallowed by [or trapped in] the mixers... when the burgers are processed...! Do you think there are no such insects in processed burgers?...

All of our processed food has insects, rats and/or mice mixed in with it. There are regulations in the US based on how many parts per million of the food can be ground up bugs and rodents. Ground meat (except tuna) is very clean in that sense. Things made from grains have especially high quantities of ground up insects and rodents. Bread has quite a bit and corn flake cereals have very large amounts. The silos grain is stored in have bugs, mice, rats and spiders in them. They are all just ground up with the grain. They pose no health risk and a tiny enough amount of their feces is present that it is considered safe. If you are concerned about eating bugs and rats, avoid canned tuna and corn flakes.

"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."
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Rdklep: I am well aware of

Rdklep: I am well aware of biochemistry. However, I was ignoring that as the question at hand was “how many starches can be in a single meal”. The real answer ought to revolve around how much starch should one eat in a single meal.

 

Sapient wrote:
Gene and Rdklep,

 

On a similarly related topic to the last two posts, what is your take on the following statement a friend gave me in regards to working out? And could you expand any further?

 

"You'll want to watch when you are doing your cardio. Cardio burns up all your stored glycogen before your body switches to burning stored fat, so you should do cardio when your glycogen is already low: either first thing in the morning before eating, or right after weights. A 20 min run when your glycogen is already depleted burns as much fat as a 40 min run starting with full glycogen. Conversely, weights without stored glycogen is less effective, so doing cardio right before weights makes both significantly less effective. It also instructs your body to prioritize endurance over mass, which at this stage you don't want, as I said before."

 

Well Brian, it sounds to me like you are talking to a personal trainer with a “theory” and yes, I use scare quotes on purpose here. If you ask three personal trainers for advice, you will get three theories. They are almost as bad as baptists trying to explain why there are no dinosaurs in the OT.

 

That being said, I don't think that there is a simple system for dealing with glycogen depletion. It depends on what you ate, when you ate and what you have done since your last meal. For example, a runner who eats large amounts of carbs before a marathon may go farther before he hits the wall.

 

That much being said, most people can go a fairly long time before they run out of glycogen. I know from personal experience that I am basically shot to shit after an eight hour paint ball game. However, I have caught a flight at 7:30 am and not got to the hotel until after 5:00 pm and I am fine (the time that I did that, I also stayed awake reading a book the whole night before BTW).

 

So if someone tells you that you must work out in some specific order, then the usual skepticism is in play. If your workout does not have you hitting the glycogen wall then the trainer is telling you something that is wrong.

 

Also, speaking of biochemical pathways, I would add that after a whole day of paint ball, I am dead until the after party gets rolling. This is because one of the intermediate stages of alcohol metabolism is glucose. When you are depleted, it gets released into your system as such.

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Jormungander wrote: julio

Jormungander wrote:

julio wrote:
But then I worry about the many cockroaches swallowed by [or trapped in] the mixers... when the burgers are processed...! Do you think there are no such insects in processed burgers?...

All of our processed food has insects, rats and/or mice mixed in with it. There are regulations in the US based on how many parts per million of the food can be ground up bugs and rodents. Ground meat (except tuna) is very clean in that sense. Things made from grains have especially high quantities of ground up insects and rodents. Bread has quite a bit and corn flake cereals have very large amounts. The silos grain is stored in have bugs, mice, rats and spiders in them. They are all just ground up with the grain. They pose no health risk and a tiny enough amount of their feces is present that it is considered safe. If you are concerned about eating bugs and rats, avoid canned tuna and corn flakes.

Thanks for your comments. I tell my wife not to buy tuna, as a matter of fact. I fear there are strange substances in it, and you now confirm it [what are they, by the way?]. Honestly, I avoid canned food. I cannot imagine absolute purity in the processing chain. As for kitchens at McDonald's, Kentucky and other outlets, man, after a day's work, walking up and down, and LOTS of people inside and out, what would the hygene of such places be like?... I feel bad already, just thinking about it... and then you have people going in there to have a meal AT THE END OF A DAY'S WORK!!!... For Pete's sake!


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You're failing to account

You're failing to account for the fact that there is at least one person cleaning every second they are open. There is no accumulation of dirt. Do you have a maid cleaning your kitchen every moment of every day with industrial strength cleaning supplies and sanitiser? No. They do.

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julio wrote: I fear there

julio wrote:

 I fear there are strange substances in it, and you now confirm it [what are they, by the way?]

A lot of ground up mice, rats and roaches. They aren't bad for you and their feces are in small enough amounts to not be a problem. The other problem is mercury. As a rule of thumb, don't eat more than one can of tuna every three days. If you did eat more you could risk mercury poisoning. And if you feed tuna to kids, give them tuna only rarely. I've seen charts telling you how often you can safely eat tuna based off of your body weight. It is not so much that it is bad for you as it is that you should eat it only occasionaly. And even if you did eat a can a day, you wouldn't neccessarily get mercury poisoning. You would merely be at risk.

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Answers in Gene Simmons

Answers in Gene Simmons wrote:

 

 The beef that our great grand parents ate was considerably different from what we have today. Time was that cows were allowed to walk around outdoors eating what was normal for them (grass mostly) until they were ready for the cattle drive to get them to market. Along the way, they would walk off quite a bit of stored fat.

 

yeah, that's precisely how kentucky beef farmers do it, including my family.  grass in the summer, hay in the winter, along with field corn because you can only produce so much hay.

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