It doesn't have to be either or. It's a matter of respecting one's belief or lack thereof

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It doesn't have to be either or. It's a matter of respecting one's belief or lack thereof

I just ask that you listen to a song, without passing judgement, and then you may understand what I am trying to convey. The song is titled, One (Universal Theme Song), and it does fit in with this groups' way of thinking. Just go to http://www.rmusic.com/unsigned/johnnie_newkirk_jr.html


Atheistextremist
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This is a nice sentiment

 

 

But from my perspective, when the lack of respect is actually built into the doctrine, it's a little late for an olive branch.

What do you think Jesus was talking about in Mark with all those threats of the lake of fire? It wasn't a foot massage, that's for sure.

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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 If someone clicks that

 If someone clicks that link and confirms it's not a virus, let me know.  

 

As for the title of your thread 

 

It doesn't have to be either or. It's a matter of respecting one's belief or lack thereof

 

I will gladly respect you, in fact it's of the utmost importance to me.  But because I respect you it is my duty to inform you of how silly, childish, or ridiculous your belief in god is.  Obviously you've had the world at your disposal to learn reason, and you haven't, so some would say (myself included) that to help you (to truly respect you) we must mock your ridiculous beliefs to help clue you in to how ridiculous they are.  

It is precisely because I care about you and all of humanity that I would use this ridicule as a last ditch effort since having a world of knowledge at your fingertips wasn't good enough.  Maybe at some point you will realize that if you don't want to be laughed at you shouldn't have such funny beliefs.

 

With that said, welcome aboard, I hope you stick around and at least try to understand why it is that we think the way we do.

 

 

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  I know it sounds weird

  I know it sounds weird but I have found that when Christians inform non-Christians that they deserve to burn in Hell for eternity, well let's just say respect  for the Christian isn't a reaction that I would bet much money on.  Can't imagine why though ?

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Quite but what is interesting

 

Is the way christians are able to own their own evil to such an extent that the fact jesus was prepared to DIE for them generates the most puerile outpouring of fawning adulation.

They completely put the torture and death of billions out of their minds and concentrate on the love jesus has for little them and how he is their new bestie. How can they do that?

I think I know. Maybe christians ARE evil and do need to be forgiven, after all...

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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Respect is earned. Imaginary

Respect is earned. Imaginary friends don't qualify.

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Sapient wrote:Obviously

Sapient wrote:
Obviously you've had the world at your disposal to learn reason, and you haven't, so some would say (myself included) that to help you (to truly respect you) we must mock your ridiculous beliefs to help clue you in to how ridiculous they are.  

It is precisely because I care about you and all of humanity that I would use this ridicule as a last ditch effort since having a world of knowledge at your fingertips wasn't good enough. 

Fuck, quit with the self-importance, and messiah complex. You should perhaps learn to not live in such self-denial. You don't ridicule, and mock individuals because you care about them, you do so because you get a kick out of it, because it's fucking enjoyable, because you've been hurt by your religious upbringing, and desire to ridicule and mock believers because it's your way of revenge. It's sickening to hear your attempts to hide this scorn, by justifying yourself by some supposed compassion. I've seen your conduct and approach long enough, to know what sort of motives you're driven by.

I enjoy ridiculing, and mocking individuals sometimes as well, but I don't lie to myself to say that it serves some higher purpose of salvation of those I mock and ridicule, I do it because  it's fucking enjoyable sometimes, and weak minded individuals who take the bait are enjoyable to watch as they squirm. You should perhaps learn how to be honest with yourself, and admit to doing so for the same reasons as well.

This is not to say that every crusading atheist operates out of the sheer pleasure of it, I'll say, Brian37, no matter how foaming he may be sometime, or how bad his poetry gets, to be sincere for the most part.

You on the other hand, are just wounded, squealing creature, who perhaps needs a moment in the wilderness to separate the delusions you justify your behavior by.

(P.S. I'm mocking and ridiculing you out of a deep concern, and compassion for you. SO don't be too hurt by it, Jake Loves you.)

 

 


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theTwelve wrote:Fuck, quit

theTwelve wrote:

Fuck, quit with the self-importance, and messiah complex. You should perhaps learn to not live in such self-denial. You don't ridicule, and mock individuals because you care about them, you do so because you get a kick out of it, because it's fucking enjoyable because you've been hurt by your religious upbringing, and desire to ridicule and mock believers because it's your way of revenge. It's sickening to hear your attempts to hide this scorn, by justifying yourself by some supposed compassion. I've seen your conduct and approach long enough, to know what sort of motives you're driven by.

How bout you quit with your self importance and not tell me who I am.  I assure you that you're full of shit, but I suppose you'll never know for sure because you'll never view the world from my eyes.  One thing I am not is a liar, to myself, or to any others. 

I don't view myself as hurt by religion anymore, I think I paid religion back quite some time ago for any negativity it imparted on my childhood.  If you want to look at how my religious upbringing determines who I am today, you can look at my recognition that I don't have a relationship with my mother as a result of her life that revolves around Jesus, and I fight for the benefit of others so they don't have to deal with that.  I don't ridicule because it's fun.  I ridicule because (before I came around) it wasn't being used enough as compared to the civil methods.  There existed tons of methods to shake Christians out of their foundations, yet they didn't usually take.  I realized that ridicule was a means to make people think, to shake them up, and that having some people as far out there as myself in the conversation, maybe people would be willing to listen to the civil methods a little more than before.

Live in your pit of shit if you choose, the pit in which I view you as an asshole, one who ridicules for fun, but do me a favor and don't think for a second that my reasons are as twisted as yours.  I ridicule because I hope it ends religious belief, not because it's fun, but because I have to.  It's a means to an end.  Trust me... there are many things in life that I would've rather dedicated my life to in the last few years that would have been more fun than attacking religion, I do this because I feel I have to.  If that's self important and you have a problem with that, I don't care.

 

Quote:
You should perhaps learn how to be honest with yourself, and admit to doing so for the same reasons as well.

Right back atcha, you can start by listening to people when they tell you why they do what they do instead of projecting the reasons you do what you do onto them.

 

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This is not to say that every crusading atheist operates out of the sheer pleasure of it

Good thing we have the self important twelve around to make the judgement call as to who is sincere and who isn't, what would we ever do without you?

 

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You on the other hand, are just wounded, squealing creature, who perhaps needs a moment in the wilderness to separate the delusions you justify your behavior by.

(P.S. I'm mocking and ridiculing you out of a deep concern, and compassion for you. SO don't be too hurt by it, Jake Loves you.)

I'm not hurt by it, I think you are merely projecting your pain, and approach ridiculing others in a manner designed to boost a self esteem problem you likely have.  

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 Twelve, it makes sense

 Twelve, it makes sense now, I perused your post history.  You hid your true feelings well, always being very careful to not explicitly state your theism, but upon perusing your posts it became clear.  At least now you wont fly under the radar when other people question how they should respond to you.  Welcome to your theist tag.

I'm surprised one of the other mods didn't spot it sooner, especially when you had this exchange with Hamby...

http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/18135

 

Oh, and don't fucking post in the freethinking anonymous forums again, fraud.

 

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Sapient wrote:How bout you

Sapient wrote:
How bout you quit with your self importance and not tell me who I am..... I assure you that you're full of shit, but I suppose you'll never know for sure because you'll never view the world from my eyes.  One thing I am not is a liar, to myself, or to any others.

Well, you're not a man reserved to his own private sphere, you're out here, with a long history of your ideas and views being exposed. So it's not a difficult task to tell who you are, anymore so than it's difficult to say Benny Hinn is charlatan, or Lindsay Lohan has issues. Broken people, are broken people, and the more they expose themselves, the less hard it becomes to spot them out.

Notice, I never accused you of being a liar, individuals in self-denial are not liars, they actually believe their delusions. You do have a broken relationship with your mother, that you blame theism on. That would have a huge impact on persons life, you're no exception, you're wounded by it, and you don't get over that sort of pain, it becomes who you are. You're spite towards theism, is a fruit of your broken and wounded relationship with your mother. I doubt you deny this. I'm sure if I was in your shoes, I wouldn't be much different.

Quote:
I'm not hurt by it, I think you are merely projecting your pain,

See, this is our fundamental difference. In some way we have a lot  of similarities. I was raised in philadelphia, in a fundie christian home, with a very religious mother. Christianity made little sense to me, so it was easy for to me to reject it early on. What I never had though is a painful experience, sure watching a rapture movie when I was child scared me for a few days, but the experience wasn't much different than when I saw A Night Mare on Elm St.

My parents where very loving and caring, but not without fault, but I wouldn't trade them, or the experiences of my youth for the world. I was always loved, by the church members, my friends, my family even when I didn't share their beliefs. For my mother, her delusions gave her comfort, the invisible being she poured her heart to, gave her, her time to reflect, and gave her a belief, that no matter how bad things looked, there's always hope.

So, I don't have a "projection of pain", because I have nothing to feel pained about, as you do. You're made hostile, and emotional towards religions by your wounds, while I'm not.

You desire to save the world from this fictional pain, than you have never really gotten over, you think creating this site, these protest and tirades again theism will somehow makeup for that broken relationship with your mother. When perhaps what you should do is return to her, as her loving son.

I may be an idiot about a lot of things, but one thing I'm not an idiot about is the affect of broken relationships with loved ones, they don't heal, until we resolve them and reconcile. If you think you can close your eyes and make it disappear, you're only fooling yourself.

The site has dwindled significantly, the movement has become defunct, no more prime-time debates wait for you, the rational response squad has become an army of none. It hasn't picked up steam, it's rolled off a cliff. Now, the question becomes, what do you do from here? I suggest you return to where it all started from, to the mother who I'm sure still loves you. And rather than ridiculing her, or mocking her, show her love, and agree to disagree.

 

 


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Sapient wrote:Oh, and don't

Sapient wrote:

Oh, and don't fucking post in the freethinking anonymous forums again, fraud.

I'm no longer a theist, Sapient. I'm an agnostic. So you might have to deal with my presence here for sometime, until you get an itchy trigger and ban me that is.

 

 

 


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I can't agree with you 12

theTwelve wrote:

Fuck, quit with the self-importance, and messiah complex. You should perhaps learn to not live in such self-denial. You don't ridicule, and mock individuals because you care about them, you do so because you get a kick out of it, because it's fucking enjoyable, because you've been hurt by your religious upbringing, and desire to ridicule and mock believers because it's your way of revenge. It's sickening to hear your attempts to hide this scorn, by justifying yourself by some supposed compassion. I've seen your conduct and approach long enough, to know what sort of motives you're driven by.

I haven't been here very long but it's pretty obvious there are some people on the site who try to maintain a balanced position - a few who spring to mind being Ciarin, Sapient, Bob and Ubuntu.

Now just to put this in perspective for you, I loathe the religious with a corrosive distaste that is unlikely to ever die. I see them as less than human, people who would cheerily bury the population of the planet

just so their arses could be saved from the horror of the freaky reality they manufactured.

When I go to church for weddings I am a roiling mess. I told one of my closest friend's father he was a fucking cunt when he informed me satan had pulled the wool over my eyes and I had to leave the table or physically attack him. I was shaking.

He later said when he looked into my eyes he could clearly see that I was possessed by a demon.

12, I hope this helps you understand the difference between general scorn and criticism and the desire to architecturally redesign people.

 

 

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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Everything ebbs and flows 12

theTwelve wrote:

The site has dwindled significantly, the movement has become defunct, no more prime-time debates wait for you, the rational response squad has become an army of none. It hasn't picked up steam, it's rolled off a cliff. Now, the question becomes, what do you do from here? I suggest you return to where it all started from, to the mother who I'm sure still loves you. And rather than ridiculing her, or mocking her, show her love, and agree to disagree.

 

Surely if you're not happy with the state of affairs it would serve better to lead from the front? All this shit you come out with about Sapient is weird and personal.

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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Atheistextremist wrote:I

Atheistextremist wrote:
I haven't been here very long but it's pretty obvious there are some people on the site who try to maintain a balanced position - a few who spring to mind being Ciarin, Sapient, Bob and Ubuntu.

Well, I'd say you haven't been on this site long enough. 

I agree Bob, and few others here do try to walk a fine balanced line, and generally don't operate out of spite, thought I think Bob might have a closeted affection for those that do, and that you operate with far more spite than Sapient does. 

But lets bring a little history here. Sapient desired to lock his mother up in a mental hospital, and campaigned for categorizing theism as a mental illness, and I doubt anyone could find affection, compassion, or love in his exchanges with theist. His belief that he mocks, and ridicules theist, out of compassion for them, is pure self-denial. The man can't bring himself to love his own mother because of her theism, he's not out to rescue anybody, he's here to vent, to express his frustration, and pains. This is not a theist view of Sapient, it's a view you'd find many atheist would agree with, even among  Dawkins followers. 

He may not be in as bad shape as you, but he's not far from it. 

 

 

 


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theTwelve wrote:I'm no

theTwelve wrote:

I'm no longer a theist, Sapient. I'm an agnostic. So you might have to deal with my presence here for sometime, until you get an itchy trigger and ban me that is. 

I don't have the itchy trigger to ban you, however I'm not buying someone who has chosen to adopt a very theistic viewpoint of the personal details of my life as a mere agnostic who is without belief in god.  Until you show otherwise, you're a theist... especially if you insist I'm in pain.  Your posts have hatred for atheism and atheists just dripping off of them, I think you're a fraud, I bet your story is even fake.  When I can prove it conclusively you will be banned. 

Past that, responding to your objections at this point are a waste of time.  You don't bring them up in interest of somehow furthering me or my cause.  Your actual intent?  I'm not sure, which is typical of people who present themselves in the deceptive manner you do.  The way in which you used that mental hospital for my mother quote was taken out of context by a virulent hater.  Either you are the hater, or more likely you chose to embrace his words without the full story, or with the full story and choose to present it in the same deceptive manner he did. This is all you need to know about the hater, Frank Walton.  Is that you Frank?  One of Franks Christian school friends?

This says something about your honesty, and tells me I have no need to respond to you honestly anymore as it's a waste of time.  As far as I can tell, for now, this will continue on future posts in which you address me.  Should you decide to misrepresent me in the future as you've done here, instead of responding I'm more likely to delete your post.  Call me a censor, I expect you to.  And you know what?  I still don't give a shit.  "Agnostic" my ass.

 

 

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theTwelve wrote:This is not

theTwelve wrote:

This is not a theist view of Sapient, it's a view you'd find many atheist would agree with, even among  Dawkins followers. 

Except they're idiots, is that the camp you'd prefer to be in?  Mildly retarded agnostic?

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Sapient wrote:I don't have

Sapient wrote:

I don't have the itchy trigger to ban you, however I'm not buying someone who has chosen to adopt a very theistic viewpoint of the personal details of my life as a mere agnostic who is without belief in god. Until you show otherwise, you're a theist. 

Well, you call label what you wish, go ahead and call me a banana, and insist I'm "projecting my pain", you're not going to find me phased. If you desire to keep the theist label next to my name, than so be it, it's your site, you do so as you wish. But I'm going to continue posting here, if you desire to delete or modify my post then so be it. 

Quote:
.. especially if you insist I'm in pain.  

Well, Brian I'm not here to troll you, I believe you're operating more on pain, than anything else, but I may just as well be wrong, and I can accept that. I've spoken about the sincerity of Brian37, and the balancing of people like Bob, so you can see I'm not out to get you because you're an athiest, or even because your quite vocal in your criticism, I mean Brian37 is pretty vocal. 

I do think you should be open to criticism, about your intentions and motives, and shouldn't resort to shying away from it. I mean you're free to make a case for my intentions and motives as well, as you have so far. 

Quote:
Your posts have hatred for atheism and atheists just dripping off of them, I think you're a fraud, I bet your story is even fake.  When I can prove it conclusively you will be banned.

Haha, I don't have a hatred towards atheism silly rabbit, I'm revolted by certain naive views, but one of them is not a disbelief in God. 

Quote:
The way in which you used that mental hospital for my mother quote was taken out of context by a virulent hater.  Either you are the hater, or more likely you chose to embrace his words without the full story, or with the full story and choose to present it in the same deceptive manner he did.his is all you need to know about the hater, Frank Walton.  Is that you Frank?  One of Franks Christian school friends?

Well, I'm not sure who Frank Walton is, I had assumed you admited that you desired to put your mother in a mental hospital, but if I got my sources mixed, and if you really never said anything of the sort, I'll trust your word, and won't accuse you of that any further. So I apologize for being mistaken. I must have over heard it somewhere, and assumed you said it. 

Quote:
Call me a censor, I expect you to.  And you know what?  I still don't give a shit.  "Agnostic" my ass.

It's your site, you can do as you wish. 

I'm curious thought Brian, do you believe every child raised a theist, is going through mental anguish, that you feel the need to save them from?


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Welcome to the forum

Welcome to the forum John147!

I respect you. Depending on what your beliefs are, I may or may not respect your beliefs.

I thought theTwelve was an agnostic atheist. Why does he have a theist badge?

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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Jesus is in worse shape

 

theTwelve wrote:

I agree Bob, and few others here do try to walk a fine balanced line, and generally don't operate out of spite, thought I think Bob might have a closeted affection for those that do, and that you operate with far more spite than Sapient does. 

 

Lol - my general dislike of the godly and occasional moments of hysteria are no match for the threats of christianity to kill and torment unbelievers for all eternity. Jesus makes me look like a sweet guy.

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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butterbattle wrote:I thought

butterbattle wrote:

I thought theTwelve was an agnostic atheist. Why does he have a theist badge?

Well according to Brian, if you're not a save the world sort of disbeliever, or hostile toward theism, and are critical of the way certain atheist carry themselves, you're a closeted theist. 

He desires that I prove I'm not theist, by urinating on a picture of jesus. 


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Errr.

theTwelve wrote:

But lets bring a little history here. Sapient desired to lock his mother up in a mental hospital, and campaigned for categorizing theism as a mental illness. The man can't bring himself to love his own mother because of her theism. 

He may not be in as bad shape as you, but he's not far from it. 

 

 

12, if you guys were best friends or something you might have the right to bring this up in private. Continually bringing up personal stuff about a stranger's relationship with his mum is odd. It's a nasty sort of lever and a bit odd considering you're accusing him

of operating out of spite. Who on the site actually knows anything about that all stuff? No one here - certainly not you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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Atheistextremist wrote:Lol -

Atheistextremist wrote:
Lol - my general dislike of the godly and occasional moments of hysteria are no match for the threats of Christianity to kill and torment unbelievers for all eternity. Jesus makes me look like a sweet guy.

Well, I disagree. While plenty of theist think I'm going to hell, their desire is not that I go there. They want to save me from it. I find this weirdly affectionate. They literary believe there's a fiery pit beyond the grave, and it's not that they desire me to go there, anymore so than a person believing the levees are going to break, desires that I drown. They don't desire that I go to hell, they just believe that i will if i don't change my way, and desire that I do change my way and avoid hell. They believe they have some cure, and they wanna share it. I find that bizarre sincerity affectionate. While I find your misanthropy disturbing, given certain circumstances, I wouldn't be surprised if it turned brutal, and heinously violent. 


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butterbattle wrote:I thought

butterbattle wrote:

I thought theTwelve was an agnostic atheist. 

 

Why?

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Sapient wrote:I'm surprised

Sapient wrote:

I'm surprised one of the other mods didn't spot it sooner, especially when you had this exchange with Hamby...

http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/18135 

Hmmm, I don't see anything in that thread that shows beyond a reasonable doubt that he's a theist. He did say in one post that he's not an atheist, but he doesn't agree with our definitions of these terms, that atheism/theism is a dichotomy. He consider himself an agnostic. 

I agree that he can be a dick sometimes (actually, a lot of times), but non-theists can be dicks.

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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Sapient wrote:Why?Well, he

Sapient wrote:
Why?

Well, he says he's an agnostic.  

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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butterbattle wrote:I agree

butterbattle wrote:

I agree that he can be a dick sometimes (actually, a lot of times), but non-theists can be dicks.

I'm curious butterbattle, have I ever been a dick to you? If so, i apologize. 


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Look 12, I know what christians believe and

 

the simple point is that christians adore and worship a being who will facilitate the mass torture of billions of other human beings. And this violent being is their own invention.

If you find their concerned behaviour affectionate that's nice for you but I contend that you and they are viewing the world with your empathy switched off.

As an atheist I believe there is no god, no eternal torment, no original sin. I do not believe anyone is born deserving to be punished and I could not worship a deity that called its

hatred, love, and its retribution, forgiveness.

How interesting that you raise the issue of misanthropy. It's my firm conviction is that this is the engine that lies at the heart of the christian and muslim faiths.

 

 

 

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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theTwelve wrote:Sapient

theTwelve wrote:

Sapient wrote:

Oh, and don't fucking post in the freethinking anonymous forums again, fraud.

I'm no longer a theist, Sapient. I'm an agnostic. So you might have to deal with my presence here for sometime, until you get an itchy trigger and ban me that is.

 

 

 

 

There's the maryter complex again. "please don't hurt me".

Before you go judging us spend time here. There have been plenty of theists who have spent long periods of time here. The rules of this site are simple and not anal, like most websites owned by theists and atheists and even media.

As long as you aren't trolling and as long as you are not threatening people with violence(which is a crime in real life) ..................as long as you are not doing those things, you will not get banned from this site.

Other than that, how long you stay depends upon you.  You can stay as long as you like, as with anyone, as long as you follow the TOS.

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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butterbattle wrote:Hmmm, I

butterbattle wrote:
Hmmm, I don't see anything in that thread that shows beyond a reasonable doubt that he's a theist. He did say in one post that he's not an atheist, but he doesn't agree with our definitions of these terms, that atheism/theism is a dichotomy. He consider himself an agnostic.

I'm an agnostic, whose hostile to certain form of atheism, which i call "post-christian" atheism, it's an atheism that's sort of a parody of Christianity, where it's adherents believe in disbelief as some sort of "salvation" for mankind, the best example is this post by nomorecrazypeople, http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/18590, which Sapient chose to plaster on the homepage. They have their own sort of Utopia in waiting, their apocalyptic fantasies, their stories of redemption, their myths of progress, and their forum of missionaries, its the kind of shit that gets parodied on south-park. 

It's bizarre, paradoxial, and fascinating, 

 

 

 

 


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 Sure, but it's also

 

Sure, but it's also extremely rare on this site. NoMoreCrazy is the only evangelical espouser of the religion of atheism I've read here and I recall he took the whole thing back in the fallout. Anyway - I'm not sure you can paint a target on atheist priests who want to save the world while feeling sincere affection for christians who want to do the same.

It's bizarre, paradoxial, and fascinating.

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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theTwelve wrote:I'm curious

theTwelve wrote:

I'm curious butterbattle, have I ever been a dick to you? If so, i apologize. 

Not intentionally, I don't think. Maybe it's the way you say things. You're really rude. Hmmm, I want to say that you shoot off insults like a popcorn machine, but that's not quite it either. This is just my impression, but, your writing has a particular style and tone such that, whenever you disagree with someone, it feels like you had a really bad day, and you just want to engage in a pissing contest. 

 

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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There are no forms of

There are no forms of atheism, you can however disagree with arguments made by atheists.

 

Just because somebody disagrees with some atheist's views on religion doesn't make them Theist.

 

 

I also find it ironic, that Twelve responds to Sapient's bitching by bitching in the way he accuses him of doing.

 

 

 

 

 

 


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Twelve just tries to make

Twelve just tries to make friends everywhere. Lol. If there was any reason or intellect behind his posts, his trolling might actually be at least partially effective. Instead he wanders like a teen hitting puberty, lashing out at all around him. If accomplishing anything, it is only to motivate us to continue our activities as we are. 100 Internets to anyone who can piss him off. I won so many when he stopped responding to me that I feel generous. Smiling

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Quote:It's a matter of

Quote:
It's a matter of respecting one's belief...

I can respect an individual even if he or she holds a belief that I think is just plain stupid because I understand that we are all imperfect and inconsistent.  However, respecting a belief is another matter altogether.  I can respect a belief if it is founded in evidence and reason -- which god-beliefs certainly are not -- but, even if I love someone, I will not (cannot) respect their beliefs if I find that those beliefs are without a decent foundation (i.e. evidence and reason).

I don't claim to ridicule for any reason other than my own entertainment.  However, I do hold that ridicule of ridiculous and dangerous beliefs (eg. Islam and Christianity) is justifiable because, on balance, such beliefs are clearly harmful to humanity generally and, therefore, also to me.

Reality is the graveyard of the gods.


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Quote: Broken people, are

Quote:
Broken people, are broken people, and the more they expose themselves, the less hard it becomes to spot them out.

Welcome to our world.  We spot broken logic all the time and being nice about broken logic doesn't work. That is what Brian Sapient is doing. Brian Sapient is not "broken". He is fighting back against a world of absurdities and trying to save people from believing these absurdities. Maybe if someone had been able to convince 19 people slamming planes into buildings was an absurdity, 3,000 people would be alive today.

If you are going to play pop psychologist with people here, you wont get far.

No one here is perfect. No one here lives in a utopia. As a species all humans have ups and downs and strife and are capable of the same range of emotions. WE are no different than you other than not believing.

We come from all backgrounds, we come from all economic status and we have good days and bad days just like everyone else. WHAT atheists do beyond HUMAN LIFE that we all share, is try to wake people up out of their dreams, and sometimes that isn't pretty.

Hitler was a monster, Iran's PM is a monster. Merely telling you you are full of shit does not make us mentally ill, much less monsters. It makes us honest.

Don't try to be Brian's shrink, he doesn't need one.

On the other hand, believing in magical super brains with no physical brain, no neurons or cerebellum floating out there in the cosmos everywhere and nowhere at the same time, thats ok? Yet we are nuts?

Ok, that and the moon is made of cheese and the earth is flat.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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<--- Prime example of why

<--- Prime example of why respecting beliefs is stupid...


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Brian37 wrote:Welcome to our

Brian37 wrote:
Welcome to our world.  We spot broken logic all the time and being nice about broken logic doesn't work. That is what Brian Sapient is doing. Brian Sapient is not "broken".

Like I've said. Sapient's claim that he mocks, and ridicules theist out of compassion for them, and not because of the sheer pleasure of doing so, or out of spite, is just fucking self-denial, and a pathetic attempt to justify himself. And any idiot who's not sucking his dick, knows this shit. If you want to talk about broken logic, you should look at your response. You desire to see Sapient as some sort of hero, that you idealize, your logic is not going to be critical of him, it's going to be broken, because you want to preserve your affection for him. Cognitive dissonance won't allow you to admit the obvious.

Sometime ago, I remember some individual was ridiculing your sorrow for your dead dog, and he attempted to justify himself, by saying that he was acting on some higher principle, of opposition to over affection for animals that leads to animal rights extremist. And it was obvious to me that, that it wasn't this higher principle he was acting on, but rather out of joy of his sheer spite, and ridicule. Sapient's ridiculing, and mockery, campaigns to classify theism as a mental illness (an insult to those who have family members suffering from mental illnesses), is done so for the same psychological gratifications. And I find it disgustingly pathetic that he tries to claim otherwise 

 


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theTwelve wrote:butterbattle

theTwelve wrote:

butterbattle wrote:
Hmmm, I don't see anything in that thread that shows beyond a reasonable doubt that he's a theist. He did say in one post that he's not an atheist, but he doesn't agree with our definitions of these terms, that atheism/theism is a dichotomy. He consider himself an agnostic.

I'm an agnostic, whose hostile to certain form of atheism, which i call "post-christian" atheism, it's an atheism that's sort of a parody of Christianity, where it's adherents believe in disbelief as some sort of "salvation" for mankind, the best example is this post by nomorecrazypeople, http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/18590, which Sapient chose to plaster on the homepage. They have their own sort of Utopia in waiting, their apocalyptic fantasies, their stories of redemption, their myths of progress, and their forum of missionaries, its the kind of shit that gets parodied on south-park. 

It's bizarre, paradoxial, and fascinating, 

 

 

 

 

 

Lets not conflate reality with comic book "salvation". That should not be the atheists goal.

I think you confuse the majority of what we deal with, because we live in a Christian majority, as some sort of battle solely between the camps. NO.

The atheist battle is not about Christianity or Islam. It is, or at least to me, it should be about rejection of ALL naked assertions, be the claim about a deity or ghost or horoscopes.

I can only speak for myself.

I am willing to live with absurd claims as long as those people claiming it do not demand a pedestal and demand I don't challenge them.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Brian37 wrote:The atheist

Brian37 wrote:

The atheist battle is not about Christianity or Islam. It is, or at least to me, it should be about rejection of ALL naked assertions, be the claim about a deity or ghost or horoscopes.[...]

I am willing to live with absurd claims as long as those people claiming it do not demand a pedestal and demand I don't challenge them.

Well, I don't really give a fuck about what you believe or do, if you want to believe like nomorecrazypeople that theirs some great battle going on, which the rationalist will eventually win, and lead us into an enlightenment utopia, well hey, more tinfoil-hat power to you. If you believe theism is for batshitcrazy people, and want to shout that in the streets, by all means go the fuck ahead. If Sapient wants to ridicule, and mock theist because he gets a kick out of it, well that's fucking all him. But if you try and tell me you're not batshitcrazy, I'm going to point out that you are. If you're going to tell me that the shit you do, out of sheer pleasure, is done for some higher principle, I'm going to point out your self-denial.

What you do with my criticism, well that's you fucking business. 

To me personally, it's fucking entertaining, so I hope this shit continues, it's like watching a real life South Park episode. 

 

 


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Quote:Like I've said.

Quote:
Like I've said. Sapient's claim that he mocks, and ridicules theist out of compassion for them, and not because of the sheer pleasure of doing so, or out of spite, is just fucking self-denial, and a pathetic attempt to justify himself.

Like deity fans who claim that their deity is the center of the universe?

The problem is that although Sapient "dis's" your imaginary dad, he has no illusions that he is a god himself. So if by him calling your fictional dad fiction, he offends you, he is doing no different than when you reject the fictional dad of Muslims. I am sure you offend Muslims by the mere fact that you reject their claims.

It has nothing to do with "self-denial" anymore than you have "self -denial" of Allah or Vishnu. He simply is saying you are full of shit. How you equate that to oppression is pathetic and childish. Maybe he is slapping you in the face to wake you up out of your dream?

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Brian37 wrote:The problem is

duplicate post


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Brian37 wrote:The problem is

Brian37 wrote:

The problem is that although Sapient "dis's" your imaginary dad.

Only a dimwit, could quote me saying I'm an agnostic, and then go and accuse me of believing in an imaginary daddy. So find some other fucking reason to justify my "problem" deluded one. 

So don't ever accuse me of being a believer again. Got it buddy?

Let's see if you can finally get a clue. 

If you wanna know why I have a theist label, it's because Sapient believes that there's only "one" kind of disbeliever--those that agree with the RRS mission statement. 

 

 


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theTwelve wrote:Brian37

theTwelve wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

The problem is that although Sapient "dis's" your imaginary dad.

Only a dimwit, could quote me saying I'm an agnostic, and then go and accuse me of believing in an imaginary daddy. So find some other fucking reason to justify my "problem" deluded one. 

So don't ever accuse me of being a believer again. Got it buddy?

Let's see if you can finally get a clue. 

If you wanna know why I have a theist label, it's because Sapient believes that there's only "one" kind of disbeliever--those that agree with the RRS mission statement. 

 

You might as well be a Theist, with your knee-jerk hostility to almost anything attacking some aspect or consequence of religious belief, made worse by your aggressively insulting language when referring to the people you are attacking. Your attitude is typically far more angry and insulting to people you disagree with than they are to you - you come across as the one foaming-at-the-mouth reacting to anything you don't like.

You are truly pathetic.

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 BobSpence1 wrote:You are

 

BobSpence1 wrote:
You are truly pathetic.

 

Bobby, you're breaking my heart, I actually liked your hairy ass. 

Quote:
You might as well be a Theist, with your knee-jerk hostility to almost anything attacking some aspect or consequence of religious belief, made worse by your aggressively insulting language when referring to the people you are attacking. Your attitude is typically far more angry and insulting to people you disagree with than they are to you - you come across as the one foaming-at-the-mouth reacting to anything you don't like.

I demean, ridicule, and appear angry for a purpose. I enjoy parody, and believe it to the best means of imposing reflection on the individuals you mimic. I've only taken on the language, ridicule, and mockery of the RRS to others and turned it back on them. I do so out of a compassionate concern for the individuals here, so they no longer live in spite, or delusions, but face reality with their passions in check. 

My hostility is not knee-jerk, it's actually carefully plotted, and it's why I can turn it off and on, with a flick of a switch. 

 

 

 

 


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theTwelve wrote:Brian37

theTwelve wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

The problem is that although Sapient "dis's" your imaginary dad.

Only a dimwit, could quote me saying I'm an agnostic, and then go and accuse me of believing in an imaginary daddy. So find some other fucking reason to justify my "problem" deluded one. 

So don't ever accuse me of being a believer again. Got it buddy?

Let's see if you can finally get a clue.  

1. It sucks being called something you're not, eh?

2. I still believe you're a wolf in sheeps clothing, I think Brian is right.

 

YOU BELIEVE IN GOD.  Your mission here is to disparage others, and to do so by pretending to be one of us.  whine away, punk.

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I don't think theTwelve is a

I don't think theTwelve is a theist. The badge should be removed. I don't like this at all.

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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butterbattle wrote:I don't

butterbattle wrote:

I don't think theTwelve is a theist. The badge should be removed. I don't like this at all.

 

Create an asshole badge, and you got it.

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theTwelve wrote: If Sapient

theTwelve wrote:

 If Sapient wants to ridicule, and mock theist because he gets a kick out of it, well that's fucking all him. But if you try and tell me you're not batshitcrazy, I'm going to point out that you are. If you're going to tell me that the shit you do, out of sheer pleasure, is done for some higher principle, I'm going to point out your self-denial.

What you do with my criticism, well that's you fucking business. 

To me personally, it's fucking entertaining, so I hope this shit continues, it's like watching a real life South Park episode. 

 

 

Yet one more reason i try stay out of this section of the forum... all the bullshit that goes on here. I really don't get the feeling there is any higher principle or anything here, everyone does this because they like it.  well that is the feeling i get from you as well, i get the feeling you like acting the way you do 12. By that i mean "aggresive" for no reason kinda dickish i might add. But would be nice to know why, i don't believe you are in anyway pissed off but rather get off on trying to wind people up. a little childish tbh. So i call you "batshitcrazy" as you point out others are. 

 

I must agree about the south park episode though  

Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
No animal shall wear clothes.
No animal shall sleep in a bed.
No animal shall drink alcohol.
No animal shall kill any other animal.
All animals are equal.


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Sapient wrote:butterbattle

Sapient wrote:

butterbattle wrote:

I don't think theTwelve is a theist. The badge should be removed. I don't like this at all.

 

Create an asshole badge, and you got it.

 

Ok, butterbattle I think you're wrong, I do in fact believe he's a theist.  But I've updated him to a more appropriate role for now.  Skip the asshole badge, it's not as good of a fit as "troll" is.

 

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Sapient wrote: I still

Sapient wrote:
 I still believe you're a wolf in sheeps clothing.

Well, it's your site, you're free to do as you wish, if you want to attach a "racist", "homophobe", "holocaust denier" tag on there as well by all means do so as you wish, because in the end it looks worse on you than does on me. If you believe that true-disbelievers are those who foamingly despise all things theist, then you're just a devotee of the no true Scotsman fallacy. 

Quote:
Your mission here is to disparage others, and to do so by pretending to be one of us. 

Let's see, I accused you of being in self-denial for claiming you ridicule and mock theist out of compassion for them, and the same time I was objective, and claimed that someone like Brian37 who was no less harsher on theism, is someone who I believe is sincere. Clearly I wasn't critical of you for being harsh on theism, I was just pointing out your bullshit.

And Bob is offended, because I said I like DJ Groethe's style, and the Center for Inquiry, and didn't think he was anymore lenient on Benjamin Wiker, than he is with his other guest. 

And according to Bob, and you, being critical or harsh on the views of certain individuals here, is equivalent of being a theist. Ah, yes, a textbook example of broken logic. I'm curious though Sapient, do you consider all those individuals at the RDF who are not your biggest fans, who are critical of the RRS, to be closeted theist as well? I'm guessing if they were here, you'd be running out of theist badges huh?

Quote:
whine away, punk.

Please, I don't whine. It's a fucking forum for christ sake, that I freely chose to participate in. You don't see me telling you to remove the tag do you? Or claiming i'm going to call the cops on you for defamation? I'm not Sunsara Taylor, or you buddy. 

You should probably think twice before you accuse me of whining, because we all know who has the history of it. 

As much, as Bob, and some others here don't like me, one thing they won't accuse me of, is being a whino, in that allegation, you're an army of one. 

 

 

 

 


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Sapient wrote: But I've

Sapient wrote:
 But I've updated him to a more appropriate role for now.  Skip the asshole badge, it's not as good of a fit as "troll" is.

Ah, yes the infamous troll badge, and asshat avatar. I hope you don't mind, but I took the liberty of choosing a more appropriate ass-hat picture.