yup every single person in the world could be squeezed to fit in the defination, then they give the kids that medicine that makes people a boring zombie (witch btw is a big money maker). But there is a better cure

this

To bad its illegal.

I have to disagree with some of the prior posters. While on the surface the symptoms seem as if they encompass everyone on the planet, the symptoms of those who have true ADD/ADHD are at a level that interferes with their interpersonal relationships, work/school achievement, and affects their behavior tremendously.

Yes, I can say to all of these symptoms I have them... but I have seen first hand two of my siblings who were diagnosed. Our family was extremely skeptical, because we had seen first hand the 'zombie' children that are diagnosed and drugged (who are just normal children). The difference the drugs made with my brothers were night and day... their agressive, antisocial behavior disappeared and they were finally able to make social connections. Also, their grades went from F's to A's and B's. They were able to focus on their work, and their teachers called my mother, amazed at the difference.

Also, I take exception to the comment that all children need is discipline. My family is highly structured, and extremely disciplinarian... and it did not help my brothers. Yes... those that are diagnosed as ADD/ADHD and truley aren't may need a good spanking, but that does not mean it does not exist and it is not a true psychological disorder.

You can actually tell the difference between someone with a "normal" brain and someone with an ADHD brain. That can't be used for diagnosis, but it does indicate that it's a neurological disorder, and not simply bad behaviour.

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/science-news/2007/brain-matures-a-few-years-late-in-adhd-but-follows-normal-pattern.shtml

http://www.adhd.org.nz/neuro1.html

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15949998

http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/display/article/10168/53841?verify=0

I've been diagnosed with MDD (major depressive disorder), which has very similar symptoms, and has success with many of the same treatments.

The estimate is BS. I've seen dozens if not thousands of children prescribed BS medication because they are kids being kids. Not once have I ever seen someone truly affected by this false condition. Nor have I ever seen a viable test for it.

It's possible that there are a few people who really do fit the conditions description, and perhaps medication can help them, but NINETY NINE PERCENT of the people diagnosed with it are perfectly fine and normal people. It's a load of horse shit.

So what you're telling me is that with your sampling of children you have met, that none of them should have been diagnosed? I find that plausible, but how large was this sampling? You want me to believe that you have interviewed and met thousands of children that have been diagnosed with ADD/ADHD? Do you know the actual criteria that psychiatrists use?

While I agree that MANY children are diagnosed incorrectly, I do not think that you're 'experience' is enough to say that 99.99% of people diagnosed incorrectly. I can understand your viewpoint, but it is just conjecture and opinion. I also understand being distrustful of psychologist/psychiatrist due to the fact that many do not properly diagnose, or overly medicate their clients, but this does not mean these psychological disoreders do not exist. Until the American Psychological Association removes this disorder from it's list, it is irrational to think it is just some fantasy disorder, especially in light of the evidence that HisWillness provided.

I can testify to the teachers making the diagnosis thing. Tried it with me, my parents said no though.

The DSM has clearly stated criteria for diagnosis: http://add.about.com/od/evaluationanddiagnosis/a/dsmcriteria.htm

I like the Redskins, although they lost to the Lions this past week. Oh, and I am reading "Infidel" by Ayaan Hirsi Ali. I had a bad day at work today. We got slammed. My dog is barking now, got to let her in.

What was this thread about?

"You are confusing improper diagnosis with the actual syndrome itself. If 1000 doctors improperly prescribe anti-biotics for colds and flus, that doesn't mean that bacterial infections do not exist. Look at the scientific research, not the medical diagnoses. The research shows that of those who are properly diagnosed and treated, about 85% of them respond positively to medication. If it so happens that doctors/teachers 'diagnose' many normal kids with ADD, that doesn't mean ADD doesn't exist.Your argument is fallacious. Just because you can have smoke without a fire doesn't mean fire doesn't exist."

I'm not confusing anything. I already allowed for the possibility of its reality in a previous post. But when false diagnosis hurts people more than accurate helps, there's a big fucking problem. There's a big fucking problem.

"The DSM has clearly stated criteria..."

And that criteria refers to natural childhood. Literally. Hence, bullshit. Every single factor is vague and subject to interpretation.

Where is your evidence that more people are hurt by the diagnosis than it helps? Are we just supposed to defer to your decades of experience working in a psychiatric ward?  Your careful analysis of thousands of children daignosed with the disorder?

Now, I agree with you that there are many children that are misdiagnosed, but you are completely blowing it out of proportion and making unfounded assertions and pulling statistics out of thin air. If you continue along this line of argument, please find some facts to back it up... and trust me, I will be the first to reconsider my position.

Yes, she does. So there.

What the hell does that have to do with anything? ADHD doesn't send you to the psych ward, it just causes problems in everyday life. Her experience in educational settings outweighs your experience in psychiatric facilities.

Clearly you are irony impaired. Your 'evidence' is merely anecdote. It is not really evidence. Neither is mine, which is why I made the ironic statement that mine beats yours. It's a pissing match. Unless you can point to some studies that support your position, you're talking out your ass.

By the way, one of the biggest groups advocating against ADHD is a front-group for Scientology. You don't really want to be on the side of the Scientologists do you? Arguing their case for them? You're a dupe. Like the climate denialists and the teabaggers and all the other dupes.

No, she doesn't.

"What the hell does that have to do with anything? ADHD doesn't send you to the psych ward, it just causes problems in everyday life. Her experience in educational settings outweighs your experience in psychiatric facilities."

So you have no experience with psychiatric facilities, let alone those dealing exclusively with children. You are quite wrong. My experience in the health industry far outweighs her meager educational viewpoint.

"Clearly you are irony impaired. Your 'evidence' is merely anecdote. It is not really evidence. Neither is mine, which is why I made the ironic statement that mine beats yours. It's a pissing match. Unless you can point to some studies that support your position, you're talking out your ass."

Cleary you are further impaired than I if my response didn't clue you in to the fact that I was fully aware of what you tried to accomplish. And you are as required to provide evidence as I, and have failed at least as much.

Did ADD/ADHD exist prior to the invention of television and the 30 second commercial spot?

Lokipro, doncha know that crypto-Scientologists don't need evidence to support their claims? They have LRH's word that psychiatric conditions don't exist. All the other stuff about over-diagnosis is just a red herring, as it is irrelevant to the original post and topic of this thread.

Hey Vastet, if you want to rant about your fringe views, start your own damn thread. Don't shit all over mine.

 I was prescribed Wellbutrin for depression.

I told him I wouldn't feel so down if EVERYONE WASNT SO GODDAMNED STUPID ALL THE DAMNED TIME.

At least the psychiatrist found my suffering entertaining.

I know a lot of people that were told they have ADD, and if they have it so do I. I remember them being put on the pills. The problem is that the effects of STOPPING the medications really do have severe downsides.

Does anyone have a statistic on how many people have ADHD per thousand people or whatever. It would be interesting to see.

I remember in primary school quite a few of my class mates were on ritalin and got great marks and when they stoped taking it they failed badly. What i do know is they were god damn zombies with no friends. What i find hard to believe is that the same result cannot come about without the drugs, its not like they are not capable of learning and focusing at all. Everyone knows what it is like to not be able to concentrate, stay focused etc, you just force yourself to do what needs to be done. I find it hard to believe that people with ADHD cannot do the same even if they have to do it all/more of the time. I may be wrong as i haven't read anything on the subject but meh we all have differant strengths and weaknesses  turning people into zombies to fix a weakness just sounds like its a bad solution to me.

I haven't been diagnosed yet. I only got a clue about ADD on Wednesday. I'm seeing my doctor on Monday and hopefully get a referral to a psychiatrist who can make a proper assessment.

I'm optimistic, since what I've researched about it and talked to people about it, it seems to fit me so perfectly. I'll post more when it happens. Sorry to hear about the cyclothymia, but glad you've got some help for it.

That is exactly how I felt once I researched it... it was as if my whole life made sense! I wish that I had been diagnosed at an earlier age. I'm lucky though, most people with cyclothymia aren't diagnosed. Keep us posted!

When it comes to psychological disorders, it's very important not to self diagnose. Try not to think about it too much whenever you go to see your doctor, because you may unintentionally present yourself as having ADD. If it's there, he can tell. If you have to bring it up and give specific examples to support it, not so much. It'll just look like you're trying to get the medicine.

I totally agree. My problem is that whenever I find some possible explanation for my issues, I tend to research it to death, and then I can look like a hypochondriac when I go to the doctor.

In fact, I just had my appointment with a GP to get a referral. I started explaining my issues and how I thought it might be ADD, and how I'd been researching it for the last few days, and I could see that he was concerned I was hypochondriacal. That's why I asked to get a referral to a psychiatrist who knows ADD and can make an accurate diagnosis.

I am all too aware that it is inappropriate to diagnose myself. Who knows, maybe I have something else entirely, and it just seems like ADD because that's what's on my mind at the moment. It's too easy to fool oneself. You need a real doc who has real experience and who can accurately identify ADD versus not-ADD.

Now I'm waiting for a call-back on the referral, and hopefully I'll get an actual assessment soon.

I thought along the same lines as you until my second child reached the age of about three and a half/four years old. There is no mistaking ADHD is an illness, but I do think it is severely over-diagnosed, and many people look too much into every-day "symptoms". My daughter is not currently on her medication, and there are severe consequences, but I'd prefer her to stay this way at least for another year or so. She is now ten. She is impulsive to the point of endangering her life, and that is what prompted me to take her to a Psychiatrist in the first place. They did extensive testinig on her, and she also saw a therapist who specializes in ADD/ADHD children. She was so addention deficit, she was off the chart on her final test.

Update: Just got back from the doctor's. Got a prescription for Dexedrine, low dosage. Just took my first dose. We'll see how it goes. I'm at work now. Hopefully I'll be able to get something done.

I think the people you speak of must have not taken ADHD medication, because ADHD medications are stimulants that are on the verge of being pure cocaine. My daughter's medication is a controlled substance, considered a schedule 2, which is one step below cocaine. I've known people who have taken their children's medication, it is prevalant among soccer stay-at-home mothers, and they became/become "alert" and "peppy". It helps them focus and clean house better, etc. etc. A far, far cry from being zombie-like. Have you ever known a cocaine user to be a zombie? I doubt it.

....well yes cocain users are in many ways like zombies.... just not in the way i imply. Cocain users while on cocain are dicks plain and simple. To much conferdance I tend to avoid them but sometimes they are unavoidable. But in no way is normal ADHD medication like cocain. I am aware that they are stimulants. I agree with alert and even peppy to a slight extent however I maintain no fun. work work work boring. that is what i mean by boring zombies, not that they are boring people but just not once did the people on ADHD medication at my old school say fuck work and go goof off somewhere while on the medication. But i supose that is why they are on the medication so they wouldn't do stuff like that. But that is just my personal experiance, I may be wrong who knows.

I'm going to wait a few days/weeks before I say for sure what effect the medication is having for me, since I don't want to confuse the drug for the placebo effect. But so far, no zombiness. So far it just seems I have a bit more energy, like being able to write this post (http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/18586) I've been thinking of writing for a long time. We'll see if it helps with focusing on work, though. RRS is inherently fun anyway, so maybe I just have more energy to do what I like, but no help focusing on things that are important but boring. I'm going to give it a couple days.