Public schooling came about thanks to Martin Luther

detention
Posts: 6
Joined: 2009-08-14
User is offlineOffline
Public schooling came about thanks to Martin Luther

After the Roman Catholic church fell into disrepute and disrepair, Martin Luther advanced the idea of brining schooling from the original position of the elite to the masses. The intention was one of creating a better Christian in becoming personalized with scripture and that this would also benefit the state and the church. Yet whether one agrees with his reasons or not, the credit of public education started with people like Martin Luther as well as other Christian humanists. Whatever one's arguments against religion's truth claims, we have to give credit where it's due.


Tapey
atheist
Tapey's picture
Posts: 1477
Joined: 2009-01-23
User is offlineOffline
America wasn't the first

America wasn't the first place in the world with public education.. god even sparta had it, give credit where it is due, I don't feel the need to say well done christianity for something a christian did. That would be like saying well done south africa for the heart transplant...

Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
No animal shall wear clothes.
No animal shall sleep in a bed.
No animal shall drink alcohol.
No animal shall kill any other animal.
All animals are equal.


jcgadfly
Superfan
Posts: 6791
Joined: 2006-07-18
User is offlineOffline
So, in fact, we get to thank

So, in fact, we get to thank Martin Luther for parochial schools and helping to spread ignorance by by teaching the Bible instead of useful information?

Gee, thanks Martin.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


detention
Posts: 6
Joined: 2009-08-14
User is offlineOffline
Actually the education

Actually the education reform he pushed for was not solely the instruction of religion. Multiple fields in medicine, law, mathematics, etc. were all advocated within a classical model like that of the Greeks and Romans. There's a difference between you not liking the intention (i.e. to become a better Christian) of pushing for this reform of public schooling and recognizing that public education came about as a result of this reformation.


jcgadfly
Superfan
Posts: 6791
Joined: 2006-07-18
User is offlineOffline
detention wrote:Actually the

detention wrote:

Actually the education reform he pushed for was not solely the instruction of religion. Multiple fields in medicine, law, mathematics, etc. were all advocated within a classical model like that of the Greeks and Romans. There's a difference between you not liking the intention (i.e. to become a better Christian) of pushing for this reform of public schooling and recognizing that public education came about as a result of this reformation.

Parochial schools don't wxcusively teach religion. They teach other things with a special emphasis on religion.

From what I've seen, any other subject taught with a focus on religion is a hindrance to that learning.

AiG's Creation Museum in Petersburg, KY springs to mind.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


detention
Posts: 6
Joined: 2009-08-14
User is offlineOffline
That may be the case but

That may be the case but that was irrelevant to my point. Modern public schooling evolved from these religious beginnings and some credit is due to religion in this regard. No other secular means pushed for a way in public education the way it occurred in the Reformation.


Balkoth
Posts: 118
Joined: 2008-11-25
User is offlineOffline
http://www.jesuscult.com/Luth

http://www.jesuscult.com/Luther_Anti-Reason.htm

Among other quotes...

"Reason must be deluded, blinded, and destroyed. Faith must trample underfoot all reason, sense, and understanding, and whatever it sees must be put out of sight and ... know nothing but the word of God"


detention
Posts: 6
Joined: 2009-08-14
User is offlineOffline
Yes and he was also

Yes and he was also Anti-Semetic. The issue here is about crediting the intial step toward public education. Quoting him being a racist or irrational doesn't change that fact.


Ciarin
Theist
Ciarin's picture
Posts: 778
Joined: 2008-09-08
User is offlineOffline
I prefer to thank Ben

I prefer to thank Ben Franklin.


detention
Posts: 6
Joined: 2009-08-14
User is offlineOffline
For public schooling or

For public schooling or contributions that, absent public schooling, would only be available to the elite?


Ciarin
Theist
Ciarin's picture
Posts: 778
Joined: 2008-09-08
User is offlineOffline
He promoted universal public

He promoted universal public education.


detention
Posts: 6
Joined: 2009-08-14
User is offlineOffline
And the source for this

And the source for this is...? Oh and referencing a mere quote where he talks about the value of education would be meaningless. The topic is on establishing public schools -- especially at a time where there was no such thing.


Vastet
atheistBloggerSuperfan
Vastet's picture
Posts: 13210
Joined: 2006-12-25
User is offlineOffline
detention wrote:The issue

detention wrote:

The issue here is about crediting the intial step toward public education.


Then you're totally in the wrong time period and location. Sparta of Rome had a public education system hundreds of years before the US was even mapped, let alone colonised.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


Ciarin
Theist
Ciarin's picture
Posts: 778
Joined: 2008-09-08
User is offlineOffline
detention wrote:And the

detention wrote:

And the source for this is...? Oh and referencing a mere quote where he talks about the value of education would be meaningless. The topic is on establishing public schools -- especially at a time where there was no such thing.

He started a new public secondary school that didn't teach religion, called the American Academy. This eventually replaced the Latin schools previously used, attendance went from 6% to 85%, and became the american high school.  He also founded the University of PA, and the first library in the US.

 

 

 

what mere quote are you talking about?


Answers in Gene...
High Level Donor
Answers in Gene Simmons's picture
Posts: 4214
Joined: 2008-11-11
User is offlineOffline
Ciarin wrote:what mere quote

Ciarin wrote:
what mere quote are you talking about?

 

He was almost certainly on about post #6.

NoMoreCrazyPeople wrote:
Never ever did I say enything about free, I said "free."

=


Strafio
Strafio's picture
Posts: 1346
Joined: 2006-09-11
User is offlineOffline
I see Martin Luther as a

I see Martin Luther as a hero of free thought.
While his views are fairly repugnant by our modern standards, he made a huge step forward.
He effectively broke many of the Catholic Church's controls over people by encouraging them to read the Bible for themselves.
This partly got ordinary people reading and thinking (a HUGE step forward) and partly broke a lot of people free from the control of the Catholic Church.

As I understand it, this was one of the events that brought us out of the Dark Ages and into the Renaissance.
(I think that the other major event was the invention of the printing press - another think that increased reading amongst people.)


Subdi Visions
Bronze Member
Subdi Visions's picture
Posts: 278
Joined: 2007-10-29
User is offlineOffline
Doing the right thing for the wrong reasons perhaps

After doing just a smidgen of reading about our dear Martin I was unable to find anything proclaiming him to be the Dude responsible for public education. That aside I think I would have enjoyed having a beer or three with Martin. I definitely have to give him props for tapping that ass. It's to bad "the church" couldn't get with that and stuck with sodomizing children. Giving theism the credit for public education is silly though, even if true. Virtually the only way to get an education back then was through the church. In Europe at that time there was no other way to get an education, that I'm aware of. So in the end I have to ask, even if your statement were true, so what? What's your point?

Respectfully,
Lenny

"The righteous rise, With burning eyes, Of hatred and ill-will
Madmen fed on fear and lies, To beat and burn and kill"
Witch Hunt from the album Moving Pictures. Neal Pert, Rush


latincanuck
atheist
latincanuck's picture
Posts: 2038
Joined: 2007-06-01
User is offlineOffline
a wee bit of research

Shows nothing in regards to martin Luther really, but place like japan had by the start of 1603 a national education system, and many Europeans where amazed to find the populations literacy rate was around 80% when they began having contact with Japan in the early 1800's. With that said, sure education in Europe had help from the catholic church, not so much Luther, as in 1119 the church had ordered that even the poor get education and the church would pay for it, although with this said, there were secular universities to attend, the oldest I believe is the University of Bologna. However I digress. every society has different forms of education that arose eventually to include the general population. In the states the man behind it was Thomas Paine, although his idea of a national education system wouldn't pan out until the late 1800's, even the Incas and Aztecs had education for the masses, although the elite or upper society got taught differently than the general population.

India by the 18th century as well had wide spread public education system and much of the population was educated. However yes in Europe the education was conducted by the church, oddly enough the church had a massive influence over the population and the government, however does this mean modern education is due to the church strictly? No, there are many others that had influences regarding the public education system however that varies from country to country.