The hedonistic imperative(The Naturalisation of Heaven).
Offline Everyone is debating what values and morals one should have. I think this manifesto spells out what values and what type of society we should strive for and what type of world is possible.
http://www.hedweb.com/hedethic/hedonist.htm
I especially like 'The Naturalisation of Heaven'.
and life in 'Life In Dopaminergic Overdrive'.
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
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Offline Technology that can grant unrelenting pleasure and bliss on a mental level... can do the same for pain...
Just exactly WHO would or even SHOULD be entrusted with such a thing?
What Would Kharn Do?
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Offline But how is that opiate produced with the pain absented? Is it automatically generated by a computer? Is that still a genuine representation of human emotion?
I would image the computer would follow some steps in the stimulation process to get everyone into a state of euphoria based on the best science available.
I think with good technology, the human could not tell the difference between real and fake emotions.
In a way the technology is already used. When you watch a movie, they play certain music to get you into a certain mood(fear, sadness, excitement, adventure). I think future technology will just be seen as an improvement with direct stimulation rather than going through the aural pathways via music.
That's my problem. How can my stimulus be present without the suffering?
You could be given the illusion of having suffered without actually having done so.
But you're exactly right, I am afraid of the side affects.
Well no technology is perfect especially new technology. But shouldn't the goal be maximum euphoria? Why not be an unabashed hedonist? Is it only the potential side affects to hold us back?
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
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Offline Technology that can grant unrelenting pleasure and bliss on a mental level... can do the same for pain...
Just exactly WHO would or even SHOULD be entrusted with such a thing?
Well, I supposed it would need to be in the hands of every individual to control his/her own level of pleasure and pain. In the hands of government or religion, it would just be a means of control. But we can't even make drugs like marijuana legal(bad for the economy). So I don't think there is much hope.
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
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Offline In the hands of government or religion, it would just be a means of control.
Bingo, give the monkey a banana
The very existence of such a device gives any douche with the knowledge to remotely hack any of these pleasure units, an army of slaves.
Hmm... serve you... or experience unimaginably torturous pain that is not connected to my nervous system so i cant go into shock after a few hours?
Decisions... Decisions...
What Would Kharn Do?
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Offline You could be given the illusion of having suffered without actually having done so.
Precisely. And how is that any better than actually suffering? What purpose could the machine possibly hold?
"Do not, as some ungracious pastors do, show me the steep and thorny way to heaven. Whiles, like a puff'd and reckless libertine, himself the primrose path of dalliance treads. And recks not his own rede."
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Offline The very existence of such a device gives any douche with the knowledge to remotely hack any of these pleasure units, an army of slaves.
Hmm... serve you... or experience unimaginably torturous pain that is not connected to my nervous system so i cant go into shock after a few hours?
Decisions... Decisions...
The problem with the world today is that many people recieve their greatest pleasure from being greedy and cruel, a product of Darwinian survivalism.
But if the technology worked properly, there would be more pleasure in receiving stimulation from a computer than from being a sadistic meglomaniac. Why would anyone have a motive to be cruel anymore? I think this manifesto is all about going beyond the 'survivalist mode' where you don't get pleasure from beating down others.
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
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Offline Precisely. And how is that any better than actually suffering? What purpose could the machine possibly hold?
Maybe less stress on the body could be one benefit. Endless euphoria seems like a pretty good purpose especially since everyone is a hedonist, whether they admit it or not. What other purpose could there possible be to life except increasing pleasure while eliminating suffering?
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
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Offline Maybe less stress on the body could be one benefit. Endless euphoria seems like a pretty good purpose especially since everyone is a hedonist, whether they admit it or not. What other purpose could there possible be to life except increasing pleasure while eliminating suffering?
What does that absence of physical stress amount to when the mental stress is never removed? And is it really endless euphoria if we're still under the impression that we're suffering?
As for purposes, who's to say they aren't simply self-defined? Would a masochist have the same purpose as the hedonists in your scenario?
"Do not, as some ungracious pastors do, show me the steep and thorny way to heaven. Whiles, like a puff'd and reckless libertine, himself the primrose path of dalliance treads. And recks not his own rede."
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Offline 'Endless euphoria' seems problematic to me, since we seem to adjust to any constant sensory or other input, to de-sensitize to it. We tend to need ever higher doses of the stimulus to get the same high. Interspersing the 'highs' with some very different experience, not necessarily painful or explicitly unpleasant, would seem to make for a much better experience in the long term.
I've always thought that a world like the real world with the most unpleasant aspects eliminated would be much more interesting and ultimately enjoyable than 'heaven' as typically described.
Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
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Offline What does that absence of physical stress amount to when the mental stress is never removed? And is it really endless euphoria if we're still under the impression that we're suffering?
Good question. Our minds and bodies are made to endure a limited amount of pain and suffering. So, I'm not sure if pleasure can be untied from pain. For instance, food tastes really great if we eat when we're hungry. I'm not sure if we could get the joy of eating without the sensation of hunger. But maybe you could believe you were hungry without acutally having experienced anything unpleasant.
As for purposes, who's to say they aren't simply self-defined? Would a masochist have the same purpose as the hedonists in your scenario?
I don't believe we have free will, so it's impossible to define one's purpose. In my view everyone is a hedonist, but most people try to deny this. A so-called masochist is just a hedonist that gets his pleasure in stange ways.
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
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Offline 'Endless euphoria' seems problematic to me, since we seem to adjust to any constant sensory or other input, to de-sensitize to it. We tend to need ever higher doses of the stimulus to get the same high. Interspersing the 'highs' with some very different experience, not necessarily painful or explicitly unpleasant, would seem to make for a much better experience in the long term.
The best pleasures are the unexpected ones. Obviously our minds are design to desire new experiences. 'Endless Euphoria' could not include bordom.
But is it the fact that an experience is new triggering a higher level pleasure? In this case, bypassing the sensory inputs and stimulating the pleasure centers directly could be done in the same way repeatedly and we would not get bored or loose the thrill. If not, a computer would continually need to change the inputs and stimulation patterns so we don't get bored.
I've always thought that a world like the real world with the most unpleasant aspects eliminated would be much more interesting and ultimately enjoyable than 'heaven' as typically described.
Especially if there were Chistians in heaven. Then it would be hell.
I think this technology would best be used as an enhancer to activites. Just like how music and smoking are used by many as a way to make work less boring and to get us through the frustrations of the day. It's really just a more advance way to enhance our experiences. 'Endless Euphoria' is probably a long way off(damn it).
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
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Offline In my view everyone is a hedonist, but most people try to deny this. A so-called masochist is just a hedonist that gets his pleasure in stange ways.
EXC ive seen you make this claim plenty of times in this topic... but what about some one like me, who would use such technology to never feel pleasure or pain, ever again? (I really would to)
What Would Kharn Do?
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Offline EXC ive seen you make this claim plenty of times in this topic... but what about some one like me, who would use such technology to never feel pleasure or pain, ever again? (I really would to)
Don't me to be offensive, but I don't believe really would say no. Why? Because humans can't say no to powerful addictions, this is proof we don't have free will. You would also cave to preasure from other people.
Why would you say no to pleasure anyways if you could?
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
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Offline The Doomed Soul wrote:EXC ive seen you make this claim plenty of times in this topic... but what about some one like me, who would use such technology to never feel pleasure or pain, ever again? (I really would to)
Don't me to be offensive, but I don't believe really would say no. Why? Because humans can't say no to powerful addictions, this is proof we don't have free will. You would also cave to preasure from other people.
Why would you say no to pleasure anyways if you could?
Sparing my long drawn out world views and fucked up mentalities...
I would choose to have this technology "turn off" all my pleasure and pain, for the reason that, i feel such things limit me and my potential(and humans in general). A self experiment... to see how i would change, and to see what i could achieve. Im just screwy that way >.>
What Would Kharn Do?
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Offline Good question. Our minds and bodies are made to endure a limited amount of pain and suffering. So, I'm not sure if pleasure can be untied from pain. For instance, food tastes really great if we eat when we're hungry. I'm not sure if we could get the joy of eating without the sensation of hunger. But maybe you could believe you were hungry without acutally having experienced anything unpleasant.
Touche. But in that light I think it's a bit dishonest to advertise the process as the elimination of suffering. Terribly interesting point though, really. I'll be thinking about that all day. Then again, I think that comes back to my original point that often pleasure is the result of some tragedy or suffering.
As for the last part though, that's the most important point: if you believe you're hungry without actually having experienced it physically, you still believe you're hungry and your mind will translate that to physical stress.
I don't believe we have free will, so it's impossible to define one's purpose. In my view everyone is a hedonist, but most people try to deny this. A so-called masochist is just a hedonist that gets his pleasure in stange ways.
I assume this is a result of your hedonism and not the other way around? While I agree that most people are hedonist to an extent, it's hard to put those labels of sweeping generalizations on to a worldview in that manner. Sometimes we have to make tough decisions that cause us pain but we know to be right, for example.
"Do not, as some ungracious pastors do, show me the steep and thorny way to heaven. Whiles, like a puff'd and reckless libertine, himself the primrose path of dalliance treads. And recks not his own rede."
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Offline I would choose to have this technology "turn off" all my pleasure and pain, for the reason that, i feel such things limit me and my potential(and humans in general). A self experiment... to see how i would change, and to see what i could achieve. Im just screwy that way >.>
If you turned off all pleasure and pain, you would just become a motivationless slug that would probably kill yourself(pain is to protect us). Reason does not produce motivation, only the pursuit of pleasure can do that.
To me that's like saying "If I was tortured, I would not tell my captors what they wanted to hear".
Science tells us that all people can be addicted, should the stimulus be great enough. If the experimenter instead showed up with a group of extremely attractive women you could have sex with, would you say no thanks? Why should I believe you could be an exception?
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Offline Touche. But in that light I think it's a bit dishonest to advertise the process as the elimination of suffering. Terribly interesting point though, really.
Science has advanced now where we can scan the brian and measure physical responces to measure if a person is depressed or suffering. So perhaps this means ways could be invented to prevent all suffering.
I assume this is a result of your hedonism and not the other way around? While I agree that most people are hedonist to an extent, it's hard to put those labels of sweeping generalizations on to a worldview in that manner. Sometimes we have to make tough decisions that cause us pain but we know to be right, for example.
It's the result of looking at the evidence and observation. I can't think of single action anyone has ever taken that was not all about that person gaining pleasure or reducing pain. Is there any scientific evidence that humans have any free will to be anything but a hedonist?
The 'tough decisions' people make is what stategy to follow in their own hedonist pursuits. Short term pain vs. long term gain. Personal sacrifice in order to feel good about helping others and being loved by others. Decisions are always right or wrong based on how the person 'feels'. Which is why morality is a BS concept.
We're all hedonists, but we have different things we like and different statagies. For example, we have varying degrees of empathy. Some people enjoy the suffering of others so much they cause it, other feel the pain of others and try to prevent suffering. But why are they not both hedonists?
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
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Offline The Doomed Soul wrote:I would choose to have this technology "turn off" all my pleasure and pain, for the reason that, i feel such things limit me and my potential(and humans in general). A self experiment... to see how i would change, and to see what i could achieve. Im just screwy that way >.>
If you turned off all pleasure and pain, you would just become a motivationless slug that would probably kill yourself(pain is to protect us). Reason does not produce motivation, only the pursuit of pleasure can do that.
I suppose theres only 1 way to find out...
Science tells us that all people can be addicted, should the stimulus be great enough. If the experimenter instead showed up with a group of extremely attractive women you could have sex with, would you say no thanks? Why should I believe you could be an exception?
"Im just screwy that way"
Sex has never been a motivator for me, i think im the only guy to ever deny "bribery" sex from a girlfriend, in an attempt to get me to do house chores...
*audience is in shock and awe*
What Would Kharn Do?
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Offline *audience is in shock and awe*
I am actually not that shocked. I have turned down sex on a couple of occasions. It's a rarity, but it does happen.
After eating an entire bull, a mountain lion felt so good he started roaring. He kept it up until a hunter came along and shot him.
The moral: When you're full of bull, keep your mouth shut.
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Offline Sex has never been a motivator for me, i think im the only guy to ever deny "bribery" sex from a girlfriend, in an attempt to get me to do house chores...
What is your motivator then, if not pleasure and pain?
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Offline What is your motivator then, if not pleasure and pain?
Accomplishing my goals,desires, and dreams, i derive neither pleasure nor pain from it, not even a sense of satisfaction.
(Of course this is generally speaking... its not i purposely shut out pleasure and pain, i just dont plan my life around it)
What Would Kharn Do?
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Offline EXC wrote:What is your motivator then, if not pleasure and pain?
Accomplishing my goals,desires, and dreams, i derive neither pleasure nor pain from it, not even a sense of satisfaction.
(Of course this is generally speaking... its not i purposely shut out pleasure and pain, i just dont plan my life around it)
But you feel good about working toward these goals? Otherwise they wouldn't be goals. Why not just make being the biggest, laziest slug in the world your goal, if pain and pleasure are out of the mix?
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
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Offline The Doomed Soul wrote:Accomplishing my goals,desires, and dreams, i derive neither pleasure nor pain from it, not even a sense of satisfaction.
(Of course this is generally speaking... its not i purposely shut out pleasure and pain, i just dont plan my life around it)
But you feel good about working toward these goals? Otherwise they wouldn't be goals. Why not just make being the biggest, laziest slug in the world your goal, if pain and pleasure are out of the mix?
Who knows, maybe one day i will attempt to be the worlds biggest laziest slug...
Until then, ill keep my crazy life goals
What Would Kharn Do?
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Offline "Im just screwy that way"
Sex has never been a motivator for me, i think im the only guy to ever deny "bribery" sex from a girlfriend, in an attempt to get me to do house chores...
*audience is in shock and awe*
I'm shocked that you have a girlfriend. You seem like you're within a hairs breadth of ending up on the eight o'clock news.
There are twists of time and space, of vision and reality, which only a dreamer can divine
H.P. Lovecraft
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Offline The Doomed Soul wrote:"Im just screwy that way"
Sex has never been a motivator for me, i think im the only guy to ever deny "bribery" sex from a girlfriend, in an attempt to get me to do house chores...
*audience is in shock and awe*
I'm shocked that you have a girlfriend. You seem like you're within a hairs breadth of ending up on the eight o'clock news.
The comforts of laziness must trump sex and violence on his list of motivators.
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
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Offline I'm shocked that you have a girlfriend. You seem like you're within a hairs breadth of ending up on the eight o'clock news.
Then again, i could have been speaking in a past-tence of a time when i felt it prudent to appear normal, and went to such a troublesome extent as to acquire mate, just for show...
You never really know with me...
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Offline Gauche wrote:I'm shocked that you have a girlfriend. You seem like you're within a hairs breadth of ending up on the eight o'clock news.
Then again, i could have been speaking in a past-tence of a time when i felt it prudent to appear normal, and went to such a troublesome extent as to acquire mate, just for show...
You never really know with me...
I know. The joys of nihilism trump all other joys at the moment.
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
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Offline I have to be missing something in this piece...I will admit that I didn't get through everything, as I am still on my first pot of coffee...Although it's all well written, much of it (in my opinion) operates from a faulty premise that all centers around the subjective term "Happiness"...
From what I've read... there are many dynamics of the human condition that are unaccounted for... Much of our inherent nature that makes our species self destructive is predicated on greed, corruption, and a pre-disposition towards violence. These concepts do, in fact, make many people "happy"...nor does this account for masochism, sadism, or many of the nuero- defects that coerce people into finding "religion", which is our NEED as a species to express bigotry, hatred, impose our sanctimonious self-righteous indignation and express our burning desire to tell other people how to lead their lives...not to mention, neither does this address our collective propensity to fear the unknown.
Our biological and nuerological circiutry is such that we will all experience henonistic euporia in a variety of ways...The simple reality is that for much of our planet...ignorance can be bliss...and truth often hurts...
Transect just below the medulla oblongata and place your brain in a programmable electrochemical medium which not only maintains all life support and consciousness but also provides never ending bliss of your choosing. Live out your fantasies. Fuck whoever you want to fuck (preferrably with multiple busty partners). Eat and drink whatever you want to eat and drink. Do whatever the hell you want. And to avoid boredom, there should be a mechanism to erase the memories and then hit the restart button forever. And once the brain starts to decay, then simply have each part (neuron by neuron) repaired by those friendly housekeeping nano-robots. And what about the never ending power source? Stud the entire apparatus with solar panels, blast it into space and have it orbit the sun for enternity. So if you can't have all the fun in real life........ whaddaya think?!?!?
You gotta great website BTW!!!
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Offline Stud the entire apparatus with solar panels, blast it into space and have it orbit the sun for enternity.
Where do I sign up? But what's the plan for when the sun burns out?
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Offline ragdish wrote:Stud the entire apparatus with solar panels, blast it into space and have it orbit the sun for enternity.
Where do I sign up? But what's the plan for when the sun burns out?
Hmmmmmm............hadn't thought of that. I came up with this idea while listening to Always the Sun by the Stranglers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cy9-epdDw9E
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Offline EXC wrote:ragdish wrote:Stud the entire apparatus with solar panels, blast it into space and have it orbit the sun for enternity.
Where do I sign up? But what's the plan for when the sun burns out?
Hmmmmmm............hadn't thought of that. I came up with this idea while listening to Always the Sun by the Stranglers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cy9-epdDw9E
Obviously these guys are only musicians and not nuclear scientists. There's only two options:
1. Transport everyone to a star that will last a lot longer than 5 billion more years. But unless the universe recollapes and new stars are formed, we're all dead eventually.
2. In the spirit of Douglas Adams, on the last day before the sun burns out, throw the party to end all parties. The party at the end of time, no need to worry about a hangover.
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
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I have to be missing something in this piece...I will admit that I didn't get through everything, as I am still on my first pot of coffee...Although it's all well written, much of it (in my opinion) operates from a faulty premise that all centers around the subjective term "Happiness"...
From what I've read... there are many dynamics of the human condition that are unaccounted for... Much of our inherent nature that makes our species self destructive is predicated on greed, corruption, and a pre-disposition towards violence. These concepts do, in fact, make many people "happy"...nor does this account for masochism, sadism, or many of the nuero- defects that coerce people into finding "religion", which is our NEED as a species to express bigotry, hatred, impose our sanctimonious self-righteous indignation and express our burning desire to tell other people how to lead their lives...not to mention, neither does this address our collective propensity to fear the unknown.
Our biological and nuerological circiutry is such that we will all experience henonistic euporia in a variety of ways...The simple reality is that for much of our planet...ignorance can be bliss...and truth often hurts...
www.RichWoodsBlog.com
Well, the document is basically advocating for transhumanism; the phasing out of biochemical processes that we find undesirable (such as those that cause, for example, our predisposition towards agression/violence) through mechanical and/or biomechanical technology. In this way, our current neurology and biology isn't really very relevant to the proposal, as part of the proposal involves changing our neurology & biology on a fundamental level.
- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940
This seems oddly familar
Because these strategies often work from a Darwinian 'survival of the fittest genes' perspective. What 'pleasure engineering' needs to do is remap how humans derive pleasure to fit with the modern world. Political and economic reforms can do little to improve the human condition because they can't really remap really humans want. Only new technology can achieve that.
Imagine and education system where the students would get a euphoric high as they learned. Instead of the current system where they are told to endure a boring, slow and tedious routines with the promise that learning will get them sucess many years in the future.
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
Except if the 'hedonist imperative' became reality, their would be no 'work by the sweat of your brow'. It would be essentially the garden of Eden restored. There would be no immorality or sin because we would dirive no pleasure in doing so.
Isn't religion trying to do the same thing with the concept of heaven?
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
I think it's more just integrating new technology with our current biology. We already have some primative means of achiving this. For example when people get their stomach stapled so they feel full(satisfied) after eating a small amount. Using drugs like anti-depressants is another.
The problem is the technology is still primative and side effects are often worse.
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
I don't know how I feel about this. While it would be great to completely phase out suffering at first glance, how much of the world's greatest art, music, and expression in general is born of suffering? Without the twisted, tragic individuals that have permeated our society since its inception, we would be left with nothing but happy etudes and drawings of roses.
Moreover, I've come to accept suffering (personally) as part of the human experience. Where is the thrill in constant, unadulterated bliss? Maybe I'm just afraid of a change that radical.
"Do not, as some ungracious pastors do, show me the steep and thorny way to heaven. Whiles, like a puff'd and reckless libertine, himself the primrose path of dalliance treads. And recks not his own rede."
But all these things are opiate to reduce the pain of suffering. You like these things because they make you feel better in the midst of suffering. The idea is just skip the suffering and go strait for the opiate that relieves the pain of suffering.
If this doesn't make you happy, then it's not really happiness now is it? It you are not in a state of euphoria, change the stimulus to get you back into euphoria.
Well then it's not really bliss if it's not an intense thrill. Your brain could be scanned to see if you are really in a state of euphoria. Perhaps bliss must include a limited amount of negative experiences. Then stimulus changed to increase the thrill. That's one of the things that pleases us most is change for the better and unexpected pleasures.
You're afraid of the side affects. It's like the drugs we have now, they can improve one's feelings of pleasure. But the side affects are a bad. The technology would need to elimate all side effects before it was effective.
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
But how is that opiate produced with the pain absented? Is it automatically generated by a computer? Is that still a genuine representation of human emotion?
That's my problem. How can my stimulus be present without the suffering?
First underline- Bingo, my point exactly.
Second- Not necessarily... The side affects are all part of the experience. I guess it depends on what drug you're talking about. Heroin, I agree with you. Mushrooms, maybe not. But you're exactly right, I am afraid of the side affects.
"Do not, as some ungracious pastors do, show me the steep and thorny way to heaven. Whiles, like a puff'd and reckless libertine, himself the primrose path of dalliance treads. And recks not his own rede."