How Do I Come Out?

cervello_marcio
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How Do I Come Out?

 I'm 19 years old, studying at college, very well-adjusted and generally comfortable with myself. I have a great relationship with my parents, but can't seem to find the right way to tell them I'm atheistic. Everyone else knows (except our pastor I suppose) so I figure it's time they should as well. I've tried little hints, like asking my mom for a copy of The God Delusion...for Christmas. But so far it seems like no one is going to address the elephant in the room. My little sister told my ma and she almost cried, apparently. Should I just keep it to myself and keep going to church with them to make them happy? I know the short answer is "Just tell them," but I'm looking for some help with tact. I know if I just try to tell them straight-up it'll spark a long and uncomfortable debate. Any help would be greatly appreciated. 

"Do not, as some ungracious pastors do, show me the steep and thorny way to heaven. Whiles, like a puff'd and reckless libertine, himself the primrose path of dalliance treads. And recks not his own rede."


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I'd say try reverse

I'd say try reverse psychology first.

Become the most annoying Jesus freak you can possible be. You know like end every sentence with 'praise Jesus', lay hands on people to pray for them all the time, start speaking in tongues, wear christian stuff all the time. Then tell them you've decided to become a Catholic monk. Then tell them you're moving to West Virginia to join a snake handling church. Then maybe say you've studied the Koran and you're moving to Pakistan to join the Taliban jihad.

Then tell them you're agnostic. This will be a relief to them. Then maybe a while later you can explain your atheism to them.

Hope this helps.

 

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 Hahaha, that would be

 Hahaha, that would be interesting.

I don't know, they're pretty open-minded religiously, only thing is my ma is like real Italian and doesn't particularly understand how someone can not believe in Christ. I might try telling them I'm like joining an Opus Dei cult or something and then when they freak out just be like "Just kidding! There is no god! Lolololololololol!!!!1!" That could work. Thanks.

"Do not, as some ungracious pastors do, show me the steep and thorny way to heaven. Whiles, like a puff'd and reckless libertine, himself the primrose path of dalliance treads. And recks not his own rede."


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Retribution?

If you think that there will be retribution for your coming out, I wouldn't tell them, not at 19.  It sounds, though, like your parents already know, since your sister told your mom.  If so, they're probably waiting for you to tell them. It won't be a surprise.  They may not like it and they may get mad, but if they are parents worth anything, they'll respect your intellect and strength to stand up for yourself.  They should be proud, not angry. 

 

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Welcome to the forum!I think

Welcome to the forum!

I think your chances of breaking the news to them without getting stuck in a "long and uncomfortable debate" are pretty low. I think I would just be polite and honest and hope for the best. Of course, it depends on how open-minded your parents are...

 

 

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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 Thanks, and thank you to

 Thanks, and thank you to the other person who put in their two cents.

Yeah I guess I can beat around the bush but the best way to do it is just to break the news. I'm sure it won't change anything, they'll probably just be a little upset. Thanks again for the advice though and for welcoming me to the forum. I got turned onto it by watching that Nightline debate on youtube.

"Do not, as some ungracious pastors do, show me the steep and thorny way to heaven. Whiles, like a puff'd and reckless libertine, himself the primrose path of dalliance treads. And recks not his own rede."


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cervello_marcio

cervello_marcio wrote:

 Thanks, and thank you to the other person who put in their two cents.

Yeah I guess I can beat around the bush but the best way to do it is just to break the news. I'm sure it won't change anything, they'll probably just be a little upset. Thanks again for the advice though and for welcoming me to the forum. I got turned onto it by watching that Nightline debate on youtube.

Hehe, that's also how I came to the forums. After watching the nightline debate. Sorry that I can't say much to help your situation. I am 15 myself and my parents don't know I'm an atheist either(at least I think they don't know), not that it matters much, since we don't go to church or practice any rituals and shit.

''Black Holes result from God dividing the universe by zero.''


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SOME ADVICE

 

I am no teenager, but I share your concerns about coming out.   I was raised in a christian family and it took me many years to realize that christianity and the concept of god was a tale. Plus, I spent many years in the military where religion is a serious part of the culture. I now work in a very conservative profession and if I where to “come out” I would be frown upon as though I announced to the world that I was a devil worshipper. To complicate matters even further, I am married to a devote catholic. I only wish I would have accepted my thoughts many years ago, but the seed of doubt planted in my mind during my christian brainwashing period, gave me reason to pause and not fully accept that I was no longer a believer. I now find myself being an anonymous atheist and supporter of atheist cause. There are several things I want to see occur in my life time. First, the removal of all references to god or religion from military oaths and the code of conduct. Secondly, I want to see god removed from the pledge of allegiance.  Third, although I do not expect to see it, but seeing in god we trust removed from currency is another large step, albeit symbolic in nature.   Now that I pontificated, my advice would be to at least live your beliefs, even if you are unable to announce to the world that you are an atheist. I didn’t and now I am regretting my decision. Don Denouncer of god and the holy spirit.

 


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In all honesty none of us

In all honesty none of us are your shrink nor do we know your parents, only you can guage the situation. I would say once they know, dont push it, let them come to terms with it over time.

My mom, when she found out treated it like a phase, she now knows it is not. But that acceptance took time and I didn't push it.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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cervello_marcio wrote:
I'm 19 years old, studying at college, very well-adjusted and generally comfortable with myself. I have a great relationship with my parents, but can't seem to find the right way to tell them I'm atheistic.

Why do you want to tell anyone? You do not have to. The idea of public profession of personal belief is religious policy not normally of interest unless you are interested in a fight or "saving" others.

You are 19. I am 63. I have worked with hundreds of people over the years and it has never been an issue. As I have said, sometimes over a beer but it is appropos to nothing but itself. When my parents noticed I didn't go to church they didn't say anything about it.

There are lots of things we do for family which are overt actions instead of passive silence,

So you should honestly answer why you want to "come out" before asking how.

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

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I doubt I can add any superior wisdom..

.. that has not already been said or alluded to by the others here, but I think A_nony_mouse has it right so long as going to church and saying nothing causes you absolutely no agitation. Atheism is only treated as a lifestyle choice similar to, say, homosexuality because it is historically taboo, not because it is some kind of path altering epiphany into uncharted human psychology. However, I will hold that you shouldn't go along with rituals or habits that make you feel guilty, uncomfortable, or even bored just to keep the family smiling. If an argument were to follow, it would be an important one, not to be put off for the sake of an insincere facade. As for the argument, pay attention to the motives of your parents, and do not yell or match the level of their anxiety if you can. If the argument goes somewhere like "don't you love us, or didn't we raise you right, or I don't want you to go to hell" and so on, basically arguments with an emotional (especially guilty) appeal, just remind them that you can still love them, and that you're no different than who you've always been, your choice is not out of spite and you are the master of your own choices. I would say even thank them for their concern and efforts, and reassure them that you know they're doing what they think is right, but you are doing the same for yourself, and the cohesion and peace the family has is not compromised because of that choice. Of course, only say this if that is true, if you're doing it out of spite then say that, but it doesn't sounds like it.

a negative response to "coming out" is a reaction out of fear, which is a reaction that has been very carefully designed by the religion that they hold to maintain loyalty, otherwise believers would wander off willy nilly at the first sign of contradictions. So just soothe them and over time they should observe that you are just fine, and the same person, and their fear will subside. That's my long winded advice.


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I say the more calm,

I say the more calm, rational and easy-going you are about it...the more likely you are to get a positive response. You don't even have to label yourself "atheist". I'd reccomend having a philosophical discussion and sharing your views.

*Our world is far more complex than the rigid structure we want to assign to it, and we will probably never fully understand it.*

"Those believers who are sophisticated enough to understand the paradox have found exciting ways to bend logic into pretzel shapes in order to defend the indefensible." - Hamby


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A_Nony_Mouse wrote:Why do

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:
Why do you want to tell anyone? You do not have to.

Important question, probably the only question really that has any weight.

If it is important to tell them, then tell them. I suggest using less words as opposed to more.
If it is important that you do not act in a way that is against your belief system (going to church) then tell them when they ask you to go to church.
If you just want to be honest, then tell them if they ask you or if it comes up for some reason.

Good luck boyo.


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A_Nony_Mouse wrote:Why do

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Why do you want to tell anyone? You do not have to. The idea of public profession of personal belief is religious policy not normally of interest unless you are interested in a fight or "saving" others.

Because I don't wish to continue attending services with them in an organization that I don't support and that I believe has its hands in every major problem in our society. It's also a big part of who I am and my worldview, so I feel my parents should know what I believe.

Moreover, it may not have been a problem for you over the years, but I've already had to deal with bullshit from my fellow students and colleagues, so I think I should just be frank and honest with people. 

As far as the "fight" is concerned, I am a part of the fight to stop telling people condoms do more damage than AIDS, that evolution never happened, that you'll go to hell if you have sex before marriage, etc. 

 

Peppermint, thanks for the input that sounds very sensible.

"Do not, as some ungracious pastors do, show me the steep and thorny way to heaven. Whiles, like a puff'd and reckless libertine, himself the primrose path of dalliance treads. And recks not his own rede."


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 You pretty much listed my

 You pretty much listed my main reasons. 


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cervello_marcio

cervello_marcio wrote:

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Why do you want to tell anyone? You do not have to. The idea of public profession of personal belief is religious policy not normally of interest unless you are interested in a fight or "saving" others.

Because I don't wish to continue attending services with them in an organization that I don't support and that I believe has its hands in every major problem in our society. It's also a big part of who I am and my worldview, so I feel my parents should know what I believe.

Moreover, it may not have been a problem for you over the years, but I've already had to deal with bullshit from my fellow students and colleagues, so I think I should just be frank and honest with people. 

As far as the "fight" is concerned, I am a part of the fight to stop telling people condoms do more damage than AIDS, that evolution never happened, that you'll go to hell if you have sex before marriage, etc. 

 

Peppermint, thanks for the input that sounds very sensible.

Well, she's one smart lady!

 

''Black Holes result from God dividing the universe by zero.''


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cervello_marcio

cervello_marcio wrote:

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Why do you want to tell anyone? You do not have to. The idea of public profession of personal belief is religious policy not normally of interest unless you are interested in a fight or "saving" others.

Because I don't wish to continue attending services with them in an organization that I don't support and that I believe has its hands in every major problem in our society. It's also a big part of who I am and my worldview, so I feel my parents should know what I believe.

Moreover, it may not have been a problem for you over the years, but I've already had to deal with bullshit from my fellow students and colleagues, so I think I should just be frank and honest with people. 

As far as the "fight" is concerned, I am a part of the fight to stop telling people condoms do more damage than AIDS, that evolution never happened, that you'll go to hell if you have sex before marriage, etc. 

 

Peppermint, thanks for the input that sounds very sensible.

No problem. I understand completely. It really sucks having that feeling in your chest being in a crowd and knowing everyone assumes you're also religious. It made me feel kind of awkward with my Jewish relatives for awhile, who never missed an opportunity to point out "Oh good thing she's [fill in the blank] at [blank] since she's Jewish!"

*Our world is far more complex than the rigid structure we want to assign to it, and we will probably never fully understand it.*

"Those believers who are sophisticated enough to understand the paradox have found exciting ways to bend logic into pretzel shapes in order to defend the indefensible." - Hamby


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Here is an article I wrote

Here is an article I wrote for a webszine about "coming out"... although its not about coming out as an Atheist, there might be a thing or two that makes sense to you:

 

Afraid of the Dark

 

My wife and I are “out”.

 

Everyone in our lives are aware of who we are, and what we do. Our Friends, both Vanilla otherwise know. Our Family knows. Our neighbors know. The people in our non-lifestyle related business dealings know. They know in the local beer and shot joint that we hang out in, as do the folks in our regular pizza place. 

 

They all know. We are Swingers. When the mood strikes us we engage in consensual negotiated non-monogamy with other consenting adults. It’s part of who we are, and what we do…and beyond the initial curiosity when it comes up in conversation, we have yet to be judged harshly or have an awkward social situation. In fact, our experience has been quite the opposite. People have been really cool with us. They aren’t vilifying or avoiding my wife and I, many are actually seeking out our company.

 

Whenever I see people indulge paranoia I become equally saddened and amused. It’s not that there aren’t events, ideologies or animations that don’t warrant legitimate concern, it is more that these states of affair become more inconsequential as they are muddled with frivolous apprehension. Rather than acquiesce to perspective and employ reasonable consideration, many Americans have become willing participants in the culture of fear.

 

Our collective focus has become blurred by unwarranted phobias. It has actually become glamorous to be a victim. So American feign apprehension... Invent imaginary demons…and portray ourselves as potential martyrs for attention. Pathetic.

 

However those of us in the Lifestyle tend to view ourselves in an entirely different light. You would think that those of us who have been able to shed the dogmatic predispositions of Vanilla relationships and have evolved our sensibilities enough to traverse jealousy to the point where we can negotiate extra marital intimacy would be intellectually above such petty misgivings.

 

You would think.

 

Many Swingers have come to reinvent paranoia and self-victimization in the form of an imaginary witch-hunt. While there are many in the Lifestyle who live in religiously intolerant climates, who hold positions in their communities or have occupations that would make public knowledge of their private lives a detriment, there are many more who inflate potential reactions and fabricate circumstances so as to appear more glamorous than they are. The male half of the couple who first exposed my wife and myself to the lifestyle is in elected public office. With the present socio/political climate, I understand why he can’t be forthcoming about his private life. I get it. But few have his circumstance.

 

  

The now infamous “Oprah Scare” which caused unreasonable angst throughout the Swinger community when the daytime talk queen dared speak of our “secret society” made many react irrationally to an imaginary enemy. Droves of Swingers imagined that they were the potential victims of a neighborhood inquisition and that their local pastor would peruse whatever website they were on and tell their Mommy and Daddy on them. Ugh. Swingers like to pretend we are like the Cosa Nostra, and that people should only be vaguely aware of our existence. We are under the mistaken impression that we are too cool for the room.

 

We need to get over ourselves.

 

The lifestyle term for this is “Drama Whore”. The reality is many of us who dramatize our potential exposure are doing so to draw attention to ourselves. The truth is most of us simply aren’t that important.

 

When Swingers unwarrantedly engage in such paranoid martyrdom, the perception they are creating is that they are ashamed of who we are, and what we do. When Swingers operate from the premise of shame, we legitimize their bigoted perceptions. As a community we are allowing sexual repression inherent in the Vanilla world around us a way to express itself. We are teaching them how to react to us.

 

Perhaps it’s a NYC thing, but if people are under the impression that you are unapologetic about your lifestyle, they tend to be less judgmental. If your circumstance allows, try our approach and forge ahead with this attitude: This is our life, our marriage, and if you have a problem with us, feel free to order yourself a nice tall frosty mug of Go Fuck Yourself juice.

 

You’ll be surprised how many would rather have a beer with you instead.

 

 

 


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 I find the best way to

 I find the best way to come out is with a full regiment of heavy Cataphractoi in a sharp wedge formation. Heavy Armor and Lances are, obviously, a must.

Sortie from the main gate (Its where they will least suspect) and charge for the weakest part of the enemy formation. Avoid the center of the enemy line, even if vastly understrength as it is likely little more than bait to lure in an attack, and then you would find yourself surrounded. I find the middle right to be my ideal area. If you have the extra soldiers, send mutliple wedges to multiple areas, however for each flight you send out to attack you should keep one within the walls near the gate.

You have two possible objectives. If at all possible, you want to completely slam through the enemy line, don't worry too much about inflicting casualties here, but watch to make sure you don't lose too many men. If you find it too difficult or costly to make progress, abandon the attack and retreat to the citadel. Remember, you are attacking on your terms, your ranged soldiers on the walls will be able to provide cover and prevent the enemy from following your cavalry into the castle. If enemy cavalry does decide to follow, don't open the gates for your cavalry, and let your cavalry lure the enemy cavalry into the range of your archers or arbalesters (I prefer Arbalesters myself for their ability to slam through armor, particularly useful against knights). If you can completely break through, then circle around in a wide arc and come at the enemy from the rear. This is the crucial part, because the reason I suggested leaving a regiment within the walls was so in the event your attacking cavalry completely breaks through, you can then send the second flight out so that even if they turn to face your first flight, they still have enemy soldiers behind them. Ideally, they would also still be disorganized from having a regiment of cataphractoi slam through them at full speed. If you are persuing this objective, it is imperative to not let either of your cavalry regiments get surrounded, hence why, if at all possible, you should be attacking multiple points simultaneously. This is less important in the following scenario, as their role then is closer to a suicide run.

If this is not possible, and against a large or well led force, it won't be, your objective is merely to push through to any and all siege equipment and cause as much damage as possible. For this reason, it would be a good idea to send the knights out with bottles of alcohol and torches, thus you should not attempt this in the rain, so they can set the enemy siege engines alight. The Siege Engines will likely be near the center of the enemy line, so casualties will be high, very high. In all honestly, it is likely your knights will not return, or will do so vastly reduced in size, this tactic should only be used if you are certain you have no options, as knights are expensive and hard to replace. If you expect reinforcements to arrive before you run out of food, or are confident in your ability to defeat the enemy in an assault, do not employ this tactic.

Wait, what?

When you say it like that you make it sound so Sinister...


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 I'm actually fresh out of

 I'm actually fresh out of cataphractoi so it looks like lances will have to suffice. Thanks though, seems plausible in theory.

"Do not, as some ungracious pastors do, show me the steep and thorny way to heaven. Whiles, like a puff'd and reckless libertine, himself the primrose path of dalliance treads. And recks not his own rede."


A_Nony_Mouse
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cervello_marcio wrote:

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Why do you want to tell anyone? You do not have to. The idea of public profession of personal belief is religious policy not normally of interest unless you are interested in a fight or "saving" others.

Because I don't wish to continue attending services with them in an organization that I don't support and that I believe has its hands in every major problem in our society. It's also a big part of who I am and my worldview, so I feel my parents should know what I believe.

I can see that. When I got to the point of not going any longer I chose a different "mass" to attend. Instead I went to a local bar and had a beer. This went on for a few months and one Sunday I happened to go to a different bar. And there was my mother's uncle and his friends. His words were, "So you don't go to church any more either" and he bought my beer. Surprise, I was not alone even in the same family which was overtly deeply religious.

I announced nothing but in behaving the way I chose I found family support. Perhaps I have been fortunate. After graduating I got a job in another city. The family as visiting and asked which church they would go to on Sunday. I casually suggested looking it up in the phone book. Nothing was said beyond, Where is the phone book.

So perhaps simply a casual statement of not wanting to go to church will get over the issue without going into why which can easily lead to a confrontation. Remember, your parents know other parents and they talk about you kids. They know other people's children have stopped going to church. They are prepared for it. They know it might happen. They have likely thought about how they will deal with it. If you are the eldest child they have thought about such a possibility for at least 19 years and 9 months.

cervello_marcio wrote:
Moreover, it may not have been a problem for you over the years, but I've already had to deal with bullshit from my fellow students and colleagues, so I think I should just be frank and honest with people. 

As far as the "fight" is concerned, I am a part of the fight to stop telling people condoms do more damage than AIDS, that evolution never happened, that you'll go to hell if you have sex before marriage, etc. 

Peppermint, thanks for the input that sounds very sensible.

It is often dangerous for the young to conflict with adults before having enough real world experience dealing with adults. There is still the majority of one's life where adults were always wiser than you. Even adults tend to defer to people who are questionable wiser people who are simply older than they.

But if you are up to it, argue from the bible. It is much more fun. God only condemns adultery not pre-marital sex and you have an entire commandment to prove it. No matter what they tell you, you have a perfect response. The commandment does not say that. Any kind of argument within families are rarely profitable much less a theological one.

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


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A_Nony_Mouse wrote:It is

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

It is often dangerous for the young to conflict with adults before having enough real world experience dealing with adults. There is still the majority of one's life where adults were always wiser than you. Even adults tend to defer to people who are questionable wiser people who are simply older than they.

But if you are up to it, argue from the bible. It is much more fun. God only condemns adultery not pre-marital sex and you have an entire commandment to prove it. No matter what they tell you, you have a perfect response. The commandment does not say that. Any kind of argument within families are rarely profitable much less a theological one.

That's undeniably true.

I think I'll try the casual approach you mentioned. Thanks for taking an interest, I appreciate that.

"Do not, as some ungracious pastors do, show me the steep and thorny way to heaven. Whiles, like a puff'd and reckless libertine, himself the primrose path of dalliance treads. And recks not his own rede."


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 i remember on my post you

 i remember on my post you said that you had this similar one. well did you ever tell them? I think i am going to keep my new beliefs to myself for now. My old man has a heart condition and if he had to think of me burning in hell he may just croak. My mom as well. 

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against the sun.” -- Numbers 25:4


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Next thanksgiving when

Next thanksgiving when you're all sitting around the table about to say grace, volunteer and do the blasphemy challenge. Or, I find lighting a bible on fire while at church is also a good visual aid. Same principle as sacrificing an animal in front of a crowd of believers.


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cervello_marcio wrote: I'm

cervello_marcio wrote:

 I'm 19 years old, studying at college, very well-adjusted and generally comfortable with myself. I have a great relationship with my parents, but can't seem to find the right way to tell them I'm atheistic. Everyone else knows (except our pastor I suppose) so I figure it's time they should as well. I've tried little hints, like asking my mom for a copy of The God Delusion...for Christmas. But so far it seems like no one is going to address the elephant in the room. My little sister told my ma and she almost cried, apparently. Should I just keep it to myself and keep going to church with them to make them happy? I know the short answer is "Just tell them," but I'm looking for some help with tact. I know if I just try to tell them straight-up it'll spark a long and uncomfortable debate. Any help would be greatly appreciated. 

Well, cervello, I sympathize, partly at least. When I was around your age I was an unbeliever as well, many of my friends knew so, including most of the fundie friends I grew up with. My sister knew also, mainly because I used to have a blog where I would write about my disbelief. 

But as an atheist at the time, I never quite understand the evangelizing form of atheism, where you wear t-shirts, and buy bumper stickers.

My mother is a devout believer, and her religion gave her a sense hope in the face of her life long suffering, she would have been devasted to find out I was an atheist, and I saw no reason as to why I should have told her that. I never found it repressive to do so, as someone hiding the fact that they're "gay" would be, but rather I found it as much of a burden as it is to hide the fact the I don't find fat girls attractive, from the obese woman living next door. 

I didn't mind going to church, I just took a book with me to occupy my time. The church folk were friendly, I returned the kind heartedness back. 

In one of my college essays I wrote briefly about my experience, and since it relates to yours, I'll share:

"It’s 4pm on Wednesday, and I’ve decided to accompany my mother on a trip to visit an aunt who had a recent fall that left her right arm in a sling. Upon arrival at my aunt’s suburban abode, a self-proclaimed apostle named Judith embraces me. After conversing about my aunt’s disposition and the events that led us here today, Judith decides to read melodically a chapter from Psalms. Upon finishing she starts weeping with the cacophony of an Embarcadero sea lion. My mother and aunt bow their heads in meditation, and I bow mines to conceal my amusement.

When the wailing stops, Judith asks if she may pray for me, and I oblige. She lathers a bit of Bertolli Olive Oil between her palms, and places her hands on top of mines, and foretells: “God is going to change your life today”. A part of me longed to feel this ethereal conversion, but I felt nothing—apart from a greasy residue. 

The ride home from today’s makeshift revival was silent. My mother was smiling, believing her prodigal son had returned home and found Jesus. I didn’t want to spoil this rare feeling of joy for her.

“Come what may, this is happiness” (Viskningar)."

 

 


 

 

 


treat2 (not verified)
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cervello_marcio wrote:How Do

cervello_marcio wrote:
How Do I Come Out?

A suicide note should do it.


The Doomed Soul
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treat2 wrote:cervello_marcio

treat2 wrote:
cervello_marcio wrote:
How Do I Come Out?
A suicide note should do it.

Oih! thats my line!

 

You best not be tryin ta take mah job, boy!

What Would Kharn Do?


cervello_marcio
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 Update:Thanks to everyone

 Update:

Thanks to everyone for the advice and kind words, especially those of you that I have disagreed with in other sections of the site.

I got in an argument with my youth pastor last week about the gay gene though and my parents asked me point blank what I believed so I just told them. It went over relatively well. My dad started a conversation about morals etc, so I don't know where he's at. My ma was cool with it though. 

Thanks again.

"Do not, as some ungracious pastors do, show me the steep and thorny way to heaven. Whiles, like a puff'd and reckless libertine, himself the primrose path of dalliance treads. And recks not his own rede."