One problem with the Catholic position is the presumption that using condoms and having sex are equivalent behaviours. We've all heard the argument that if people ignore the Catholic teaching on sex before or outside of marriage, then they should have no problem ignoring the Catholic churches anti-condom stance. The implication being that they are theologically inconsistent to apparently adhere to one church dogma (not using condoms) whilst ignoring another (not having sex outside/before marriage). There are numerous problems here. Using or not using condoms is not the same having or not having sex. Sex is natural, and will always happen. You cannot suppress it. Given this reality, promoting condom usage is the only practical solution to the HIV/Aids problem. Then there is the fact that many/most do not willingly reject condoms or reject them based on sound information, indeed many simply do not have supplies available to them, and/or have not been educated, or worse, have been told misinformation.

The Catholic church are obviously not the reason for the HIV/Aids problems in Africa; there is a lot of political problems (such as aids denialism) and local superstitions that all add to the problems, nevertheless, the church adds further unnecessary and dangerous reinforcement to the issue, and the authority, influence and spread of the church compounds the problem further.

One issue which is totally ignored by the church and its supporters is babies born with the disease. I couldn't find figures on the survival rate of those born with the disease, but if they live to an age where they have sex then we have an example where some inflicted with the disease have not violated the churches dogma on sex and so the churches presumptions for denying condoms doesn't hold. It put a spanner in the works of the churches implicit suggestion that if you do not have sex outside or before marriage but instead save yourself you won't get the disease and therefore do not require condoms to begin with.

You are getting closer to my point.
But you don't understand how we move the condoms away as a solution.
The problem is the education, but that problem comes from the culture and the traditions.
USA can not educate their african-americans and the USA potentials are much greater than Africa's potentials.

African blacks will extinct before we educate them.
That is why the pope says that condoms are not the solution for Africa.

I don't contradict myself.
Zuma also attended school, but he didn't use condom although he knew that the woman is HIV positive.
That is the way they are.
You better get familiar with black culture and mentality, before you speak about them.

Yeah, you did. Earlier you said that black South Africans went to school and read all the ads. In the post I replied to where I saw the contradiction, you said they couldn't be educated about condoms beause they couldn't read (which is why I made point 1).

If there are cultural/traditional blockades to overcome, then work to overcome them. Having the Pope come to Africa and lie about condoms isn't helping. Nor is throwing up one's hands and saying "Let them die".

Why do you and the Pope want more dead black people?

1) You may have friends that are docters but that is besides the point we already know there is a problem, we are saying education will fix it. You don't seem to think so.

2) go find out what jacob zuma's education level is. We are arguing that education will fix it. If he is educated you have a point if not you don't

3) Whites in South Africa do have AIDs just a lesser percentage. Funny White people in South Africa are genrally far better educated than black people, apartheid and all that.

4) yes some wild speculation here 99.99% of blacks are smater than Jacob Zuma. With the possible exception of Julious malemba although he is probably smarter to.

5) I don't put some Africans not using condom at te feet of the pope. It isn't really his fault. But he is part of the problem, he is making it worse

That is so ignorant to say.
I don't know what the pope wants, but certainly I don't want people to die.

They will die because we need time to change their culture, traditions, education and attitude before they start using condoms.
By the time we do that they will be extinct.
So, we better think of other solution if we want them alive.

To push the condoms as solution is actually to want African blacks dead.

Let me tell you something else in this connection.
Few years ago leading pharmaceutical companies wanted to introduce in South Africa medicines for suppressing the AIDS effect on sick people.
With that medicines the sick people start feeling better and live for few more years longer.
The government refused the program because it would increase the risk more people to be infected (longer sexual activity for sick people greater risk to infect more people)

Of course the BIG money won and we have more and more HIV and AIDS positive people which feel better and live for few more years.

So, what is better - to increase the risk and have more sick people or to let sick people die faster?
I don't have the answer and I don't think that there is wisdom which could give the right answer.

Life is not like you read it in books and like you see it in movies.
Our moral values are put on trial and sometimes we don't have other choice but to choose the smaller evil.

Finally.

Well in that case, the discussion can end completely right now. Noone is advocating a condom-only strategy. So there's nothing left to argue.

lol then we know totally differant people. Even as a christian I have never even heard of the idea. I literally had never heard of it before I got the internet, a couple months ago. My church taught creation as metaphorical and in reflection I see that they made sure you understood it as metaphorical. You learn things everyday. But are the YEC you know in the minority? I certainly hope so.  Perhaps you are right and I just know the wrong people. I don't really have an atheist circle of friends, but most the christians I no really just pay lip service to god and jesus and the like. Just out of curiousity what church do they go to if you know? 

I can't even comprehend that. I've never met any christians who take creation metaphorically. The YEC's I know aren't in the minority, the majority of christians I know are YEC's. There are a couple of churches I've been to, and they all teach a literal 6 day creation. Like Destiny Harvest, YWP Christian fellowship, Hillcrest Christian fellowship.. I really don't get how you never heard of it and you were a christian

Well it could be because the pastor didn't believe it? He did become an atheist a year after I joined, I left around the same time. Probably because I simpaly wasn't a christian for very long. Really I am amazed by that. I'm willing to guess most of them went to those creepy small christian schools right? Those places freak me out, my bad if you went to one and have fond memories. They are just creepy to me. 

P.S. perhaps I should of said instead of never heard of YEC slightly incorrect, I should of said I have had never heard that anyone thought it was literal. I didn't know people took it literally. The though had never crosed my mind that people took it literally.

This is quite a thread derail, but I know this slight confusion about YEC Christianity is a cultural thing. Here in the U.S., the various branches of Protestantism that hold sway over the theological life of this country almost, to a man (so to speak) believe in YEC. I can't even tell you how many times I've had the "evolution is a theory, not a fact" fallacy tossed my way; hell, I used to BE a YEC, and NO amount of scientific evidence could have convinced me to see it as bunk. That took my reading the Messianic 'prophecies' in the OT and seeing the HUGE disconnect between them and the character of Jesus. 

Point is: I'm sure it's different in your country. I'm not sure what factions are big over there, but here it's pretty much shades of Calvinism (even a few preterism believers- which I think makes God into a MASSIVE a-hole... moreso than 'standard' interpretations of 'free will.') Consider yourself lucky, that you don't have to hear some of this garbage coming out of peoples' mouths day in and day out.

How typical of religion to give such a spectacular display of its mind numbing and bone chilling vapidity. Instead of listening to genuine medical experts who know what they are talking about, why not have your policies on this matter be dictated by a ridiculous fool wearing a phallus for a hat?

Oh, snap.

Poor bastard.