Kyle V G&T

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Kyle V G&T

You'll need an hour or so to read the entire transcript (link at end) but here's quite an amusing excerpt from when Kyle, the atheist, let G&T (Geisler and Turek's book "I Don't Have Enough Faith To Be An Atheist&quotEye-wink into his house for a "chat" about christianity.


Kyle: Can you prove that heaven and hell exist?

G&T: No. You just have to trust the Bible. Have faith.

Kyle: Do what?

G&T: TRUST the Bible.

Kyle: What if heaven and hell aren’t real? What if this life is all there is? Then Christians are putting their priorities in the wrong place. They’re wasting their lives chasing a pipe dream.

G&T: Well, if there’s nothing after this life, then it’s all futile anyway. Five hundred years from now, nobody will even remember any of us. And if a pipe dream gives Christians hope and makes them happy, what’s wrong with that?

(Knock, knock.)

Kyle: Oh! There’s someone at the door. Do you mind if I answer it?

G&T: Not at all.

(Kyle opens door.)

Matthew: Hello! This is your lucky day! My name is Matthew Golden McClenney. I’ve come here all the way from Bahrain to give you 5000 acres of Tennessee timberland.

Kyle: That sounds very generous.

Matthew: All I ask is that you accept it with sincerity and gratitude.

Kyle: I sincerely thank you. Now give me the land.

Matthew: Not so fast, my friend. In order to keep people from abusing my giveaway program, I must put their sincerity and gratitude to the test.

Kyle: And how do you do that?

Matthew: For the rest of your life, you must pay me ten percent of your income (gross, not net). I will accept other offerings if you want to prove yourself especially sincere and grateful. You must also do everything I tell you to do. I will control your sex life; what you eat, drink and smoke; what you wear; what you read; what you think; and ... well ... everything else.

Kyle: You want me to be your slave?

Matthew: This is a real bargain! You can work several lifetimes, and never save up enough money to buy 5000 acres of prime Tennessee timberland.

Kyle: When would I get the land?

Matthew: When you die, I’ll review your record to see how cheerfully you gave, and how well you obeyed my commands. If you pass the test, I’ll give your heirs a deed to the 5000 acres.

Kyle: So my heirs will get the land. What’s in it for me?

Matthew: Just think of the joy you’ll have! I have hundreds of testimonials – people filled with hope and comfort, knowing that their heirs will be set for life. You will have the opportunity to meet with these people at least twice a week. In fact, your meeting with them is another way you can show your sincerity and gratitude. Once you get into the program you will beg me for more commands. You will want to dedicate one day a week to Matthew Golden McClenney. You will want to spread the program to everyone you meet.

Kyle: You say I will want to do those things. Are they really commands?

Matthew: Yes, but it only increases your own happiness. I will never command you to do anything that creates unhappiness. Trust me.

Kyle: Do what?

Matthew: TRUST me.

Kyle: Before I sign up, I’d like some proof that these thousands of acres really exist.

Matthew: If you don’t trust me enough to take my word for it, I’ll be displeased with you. It shows me that you’re neither sincere nor grateful. Besides, there’s an evil conspiracy in Tennessee. Even the state officials are in on it. They’ll try to tell you this is a scam, but you must not listen to them. They only want to keep you from being happy.

Kyle: So let me get this straight. You want me to pay you more than ten percent of my income, dedicate one seventh of my time to you, attend meetings at least twice a week, give up my freedom, and become your slave.

Matthew: That’s right.

Kyle: And in return, my heirs will get a piece of paper that purports to give them 5000 acres of Tennessee timberland, but there’s no way I can confirm that the land really exists.

Matthew: Correct.

Kyle: And this is supposed to make me happy?

Matthew: Yes.

Kyle: No thanks.

Matthew: If you reject me, your heirs will suffer in miserable poverty!

Kyle: Get out of my house, you fraud!

(Kyle slams the door.)

G&T: Wow! You’d have to be really nuts to buy into a program like that.

Kyle: Yes, you’re right. Where were we?

G&T: We were talking about the joy and comfort we get from becoming slaves to God and knowing that we will go to heaven instead of hell, even though there’s no way to verify that those places exist.

Kyle: Right....

G&T: Uh, huh....

Kyle: Yep....

G&T: So do you have a better alternative?







I recommend the whole thing - available at this address:


I would rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy

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 Took me a little while to


Took me a little while to finish, but well worth the read.  Thanks!


One of my favorite exchanges:



Kyle: You seem to regard intelligence as the most powerful force in the universe, and you seem to underestimate the forces of nature. I find this very curious. Humanity keeps discovering the awesome power of nature. We peek into natural phenomena, and we are overwhelmed with its intricate complexity. Science has barely scratched the surface of how the universe works. There are powerful forces within every atom that attract some particles and repel other particles. We have discovered that the entire blueprint of a person’s body is embedded in the nucleus of every cell. Maybe the blueprint of the entire universe is embedded in each and every atom.

G&T: But who created that blueprint? Surely a blueprint points to an intelligent source.

Kyle: The blueprint may be eternal. Nobody created it. It simply exists.

G&T: The same way I insist that God simply exists?

Kyle: Right. And maybe when natural conditions are right, the complexity of the other dimensions solidifies into space, time and matter. Compare it to water. When conditions are right, it transforms from a liquid to a solid. Other conditions cause it to transform from a liquid to a gas. It’s still water, but it changes form. That’s the power of nature. Intelligence is not required. Maybe the atmospheric and geological conditions of planet Earth were different during the Cambrian period than they are today, and the various life forms in other dimensions “solidified” into a material existence, purely by natural phenomena.

G&T: That sounds pretty far-out.

Kyle: No more far-out than your God theory. In fact, you mentioned a principle...

G&T (p 117): The Principle of Uniformity?

Kyle: Yes. The Principle of Uniformity favors natural phenomena, even if we don’t fully understand them, over a super-intelligence. Compared with the forces of nature, the intelligence of man is a trifling thing, and we have absolutely no scientific evidence for any intelligence greater than man’s. Intelligence itself is a natural phenomenon. Intelligence depends on nature – not the other way around.