Hell: The Empty Threat

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Hell: The Empty Threat

You walk into the office tomorrow. As you walk to your desk a co-worker, Gordon, stops you and says, "I'm going to blow Mary's fucking head off."

 

How do we assess a threat like that? It clearly has very serious implications if Gordon is being sincere, so it's important that we be able to analyze the sincerity of given pledges to do harm.

Fortunately, this is something we're very good at, thanks to a certain branch of epistemology that I'll explain later. First, let's go over a few potential crystalizations of our scenario:

 

First, let's say that Gordon has worked with you for several years, that Mary is the boss, and that Gordon has said the same thing (or some variation thereof) to you every single day without incident. He has never acted violently or strangely - but has acted rather grumpily - around you.

How likely do you think it would be that Gordon actually intends to harm Mary?

 

Now let's say that Gordon is a new employee. He never talks to anyone, including yourself, and a few times while looking over into his cubicle you've seen him browsing snuff websites. He always seems to be a bit jittery/anxious.

How likely do you think it would be that Gordon actually intends to harm Mary?

 

Now let's say that after Gordon stopped you, he pulled a gun out of his belt and pointed it at Mary's head while he told you about killing her.

How likely do you think it would be that Gordon actually intends to harm Mary?

 

The credibility you give to Gordon's threat is all based on observations; his past behavior, whether or not he's currently armed, etc. Depending on the threat, it might even be based on observations you have about the world (If Gordon, in the second scenario, had said, 'I'm going to have Mary beamed into outer space,' the threat wouldn't have the same credibility despite Gordon's antisocial behavior).

We call these obsevartions evidence, and the process of formulating hypothesis's from evidence is the epistomology known as 'science'. Registering whether or not Gordon really meant what he said happens at a subconscious more than a conscious level, but it follows the procedure of science nevertheless.

Science is the only way we learn things about our surroundings, including the intentions of other people and the possible dangers of performing a given action. Science requires evidence to act upon; if you have no relevant information, you can formulate a reasonable hypothesis. If I had merely given you the scenario of Gordon stopping you at the office and threatening to kill Mary, without providing any extra details, you could not reliably guess whether or not the character intended to act on his word.

At worst, what you could do is insert your own bias and preconceptions into the scenario to craft false axioms (in psychology, this is known as 'projection') and attempt to resolve your feelings about Gordon's threat from there (Perhaps you feel that all men are violent, for example, and so decide that Gordon likely does mean to cause harm).

 

Later in the week, after the incident at the office, you go to Church (and depending on the outcome of the scenario, are possibly consoled. Sticking out tongue ). During the sermon the preacher informs you, "If you are not saved by Jesus Christ, you will go to Hell,"

This is, again, a threat with some very serious implications if it is credible. Even moreso, in fact, than Gordon's threat - as Hell entails eternal torment/damnation. Gauging the credibility of this threat is therefore arguably even more important than gauging the credibility of Gordon's threat earlier in the week... and yet, if you're honest with yourself, you're bound to see the obvious problem:

The threat is completely empty. Unlike the hypothetical scenarios with your co-worker, there is nothing for you to observe and no experience for you to draw from. You can't scientifically draw a conclusion. All that you have to work with is the statement, your own preconceptions and your own bias.

Have you ever wondered why everyone's visualization of Hell (and Heaven, for that matter) is so different?

 

Just think about it.

Quote:
"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940


Renee Obsidianwords
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First lets say that the

First lets say that the threat of hell is something you have endured for years...we'll say since you were a little guy. Your parents your priest your friends have all threatened you with hell in some capacity at some point during those years.

How likely would it be that you believe there may actually be a hell?

 

Now let's say that you have never heard of this 'hell' before and the concept has to be explained to you. You have no previous knowledge, nothing within your own experience to help you make a decision.(no people you trust with your life telling you it is the truth)

How likely do you think it would be that you would actually believe?

 

Now let's say that your pastor called you to the church and showed you the gates of hell.

How likely do you think it would be that you would then believe?

 

 

Slowly building a blog at ~

http://obsidianwords.wordpress.com/


Brian37
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The threat of hell is merely

The threat of hell is merely humanity's childish indoctrination of fear that if you dissent from authority you deserve to get your ass kicked.

It is an abuse of human diginaty that inquery or dissent should be squashed by the threat of tourture. Humans never would have moved from the caves if they always bowed to fear.

There is no magic man in the sky threating to spank you anymore than there is a magic man with a pitchfork in the molten core of earth tempting you to do naughty things.

Until humanity sees itself for what it is, and accepts it's own mortality as a natural ongoing process void of magic, superstition will always be a plague on human dignaty and intelect.

Hell is made up fiction, just like heaven.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog


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Perhaps it would be

Perhaps it would be good to make a distinction between the threat of hell and the existence of hell. Then we can see that the hell we are warned of is not the same place as the hell in the bible. In the Greek text, the word for hell is geennh or gehenna. As it happens, gehenna is a real place. It correlates to the valley of Hinnom.

 

Two thousand years ago, there was a garbage dump outside the south west gate of Jerusalem in the valley of Hinnom. Like all good garbage dumps, it was more or less always on fire and it was also the place where the bodies of executed criminal were disposed of.

 

So when god jr. speaks of hell as the place where sinners go, he is literally referring to the the valley of Hinnom. Just for fun, one can do a google image search for the place and see what it looks like today. Hell is actually a rather lovely garden and apart from the constant conflict in the area, it would be a neat place to have a picnic.

NoMoreCrazyPeople wrote:
Never ever did I say enything about free, I said "free."

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Answers in Gene Simmons

Answers in Gene Simmons wrote:

Perhaps it would be good to make a distinction between the threat of hell and the existence of hell. Then we can see that the hell we are warned of is not the same place as the hell in the bible. In the Greek text, the word for hell is geennh or gehenna. As it happens, gehenna is a real place. It correlates to the valley of Hinnom.

 

Two thousand years ago, there was a garbage dump outside the south west gate of Jerusalem in the valley of Hinnom. Like all good garbage dumps, it was more or less always on fire and it was also the place where the bodies of executed criminal were disposed of.

 

So when god jr. speaks of hell as the place where sinners go, he is literally referring to the the valley of Hinnom. Just for fun, one can do a google image search for the place and see what it looks like today. Hell is actually a rather lovely garden and apart from the constant conflict in the area, it would be a neat place to have a picnic.

 

I know that and you know that, but there are pleanty of theists who think that the words they use don't come from prior cultures and somehow magically their club is immune to taking prior words, motifs and names and stories and incorperating them with new details.

What you correctly state is evidence that humans compete and borrow and pass down and steel and filter down stories through history. This is evidence that modern religion of all labels is merely spin offs of prior cultures and stories and motifs.

Coke comes out with a cherri soda and Pepsi looks at that and says, "I like that idea, I'll call it something else and give it a bottle instead of a can and give it different colors. " BUT IT IS STILL A SODA

The Greeks treated those who threaten them like trash. So it is no surprise that late Hebrews and early Christians picked up on this idea of treating detractors like trash and instead of calling it a dump, they wrote fantastic stories about magical dumps that were eternal(modern hell).

It was very common in polytheism and early monotheism to treat those outside a kingship that threatened that kingship as trash and what better way to keep people in line than to threaten them with the ultimate garbage dump, not just your physical body, but your "soul".

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog


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Better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven...

You know... this hell sounds a like a heap of BS to me. Think about it... Suffer for eternity? Okay... If your soul can suffer.... then why do we have a nervous system? And a brain? To tell your soul what´s going on? Come on... and I´ll be damned... a burning soul? Hmm, need some more souls for my fireplace... they burn like hell. I´m not buying it...


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Reward and punishment

The purveyors of superstition,also known as the priesthood, discovered long ago that none of their gods could be counted on to do a damn thing.  So they came up with a system that gave you heaven or hell, but only after you die.  So clever.  How anyone can believe such tripe amazes me.


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better to be feared than

better to be feared than loved... christians want their god to be both...


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This is the only Hell I

This is the only Hell I acknowledge to exist, and it snows there every year.

 

Hell, MI


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Ciarin wrote:This is the

Ciarin wrote:

This is the only Hell I acknowledge to exist, and it snows there every year.

 

[url=http://www.hell2u.com/]Hell, MI[/url]

 

 

Then I guess Toronto Maple Leafs will finally win the cup.