God of the Gaps

That_Guy
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God of the Gaps

This is from my new blog (I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post a link). Enjoy:

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I've been arguing with some rather moronic Young Earth Creationists lately (like there is any other kind). They ask a question about evolution that they think will stump me, I do about two minutes of research on Google or Jstore and come back with an answer, and then they either redefine the question or just start in on new 'holes' in evolution. It's classic 'God of the Gaps' nonsense, so I finally decided to try and explain to them why their argument fails so fucking hard. The (somewhat modified) post is below:

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And again, you are using the foolish 'god of the gaps' argument. Just because we don't understand something doesn't mean the default answer is OMG GOD DID IT!!

If we used that logic, science would never progress and you would still think disease was caused by demons. Do you believe that all disease is caused by demons?

YEC's continually provide supposed 'holes' in the theory of evolution that even a few minutes of research will show you have been answered dozens, hundreds or even thousands of times. The only thing you are proving is that you are willfully and intentionally ignorant about the actual science of evolution. At the same time creationists manage to claim that the bible is, in fact, a scientifically accurate book (even the MOST accurate book!!).

Well, as long as we are on the subject of 'Scientific' knowledge in the bible, there are a few matter I am curious about.

Is the earth round or flat?

Isaiah 11:12
12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH.

Daniel 4:11
11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the ENDS OF ALL THE EARTH


I'm curious. Where, exactly, can you see the ENDS of ALL the earth if it is round?

And on a similar note, does the sun go around the earth, or does the earth revolve around the sun?

1 Chronicles 16:30: He has fixed the earth firm, immovable.

Psalm 104:5: Thou didst fix the earth on its foundation so that it never can be shaken.


Lets move on to Biology.

Do serpents eat dust, or other animals?

Genesis 3:14: And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life


Are bats birds, or mammals?

See Leviticus 11:13-19 and Deuteronomy 14:11-18


How about medicine?

When you are sick, do you go to a doctor, or the church?

James 5:14-15: Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: and the prayer of faith shall save him that is sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, it shall be forgiven him.

Or astronomy?

Is space a vacuum, or is it filled with water being held out by 'the firmament'?

Genesis 1:6-7: "And God made the firmament and separated the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament. And it was so.

And God called the firmament Heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.

And God said, "Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear." And it was so.

God called the dry land Earth, and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good."


And for that matter, we can now see light traveling from distant stars that MUST have been in transit for billions of years. Can you explain why God went to the trouble of creating the universe with the appearance of great antiquity if it is in fact less than 10,000 years old?

These aren't rhetorical questions.

I'm genuinely interested if we have anyone here who claims all of the following:

The earth is flat

The earth is fixed and immovable with a set foundation

Serpents eat dust

Bats are birds

Disease should only be treated with prayer

Outer space is filled with water held out by the firmament

God made the light from distant stars to appear as if it was billions of years old

evolution is false


If you only believe one or two of these, please justify your answer, either scientifically or biblically.

Thanks.

 


hazindu
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That looks like a good

That looks like a good quality post, but I don't forsee you getting a bunch of honest answers from theists.  I've gotten quite frustrated with trying to explain how sticking a presupposition that can only be supported by presupposing into every unanswered question is not valid and is actually counter productive to learning the truth.  I think logic should be a required class in schools.

"I've yet to witness circumstance successfully manipulated through the babbling of ritualistic nonsense to an imaginary deity." -- me (josh)

If god can do anything, can he make a hot dog so big even he can't eat all of it?


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Agreed. Starting in the 2nd

Agreed.

Starting in the 2nd grade....

 

 


Answers in Gene...
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OK, I understand where

OK, I understand where you are going with this, no problem there. However, you may want to take into account that theists can be positively masterful at the art of retreat. The more you box them into a corner, the sillier they get. I have had many similar conversations over the years and they just find new ways to hide from reality.

 

One time, I thought that I had some guy on the ropes by asking him how many men at the first council of Nicea voted that Jesus was not god (yes, they had that vote – the result was that nobody could agree if he was god on earth or just a man so they invented the duality as a compromise so that everyone could “agree to disagree” and still invent a church).

 

Well, the guy then came up with this: “Well, I don't know much about that but I do know...”

 

At which point, I just cut him off and told him to go learn about his own church before trying to tell others about it. He made one last vain attempt to convert me and I finally told him to go fuck himself. He stopped there but I doubt that he ever followed up with the historical research angle that I had suggested.

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Answers in Gene Simmons

Answers in Gene Simmons wrote:

Well, the guy then came up with this: “Well, I don't know much about that but I do know...”

 

At which point, I just cut him off and told him to go learn about his own church before trying to tell others about it. He made one last vain attempt to convert me and I finally told him to go fuck himself. He stopped there but I doubt that he ever followed up with the historical research angle that I had suggested.

 

 

The fact that theists have the audacity to claim 'absolute truth', be completely ignorant about historical realities and simultaneously call atheists arrogant just kills me.


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Yah, I also find it

Yah, I also find it amusing when they claim that the belief in the invisible dude in the sky is the only thing that keeps them from being sadistic rapists and serial murderers.  Just for shits and giggles, let me posit the world a few years from now as one where science has unequivocally proved that god does not exist.  No thinking human is capable of holding to any contrary belief.


 

As I see it, they have a small number of options:

 

First, they have to prove that they were right by committing such acts. I doubt that they would do so.

 

Second, they can live with the rest of us as decent human beings. I am happy that they have decided to follow the rules of decent society.

 

Third, they can remain adherents of whatever irrational belief system they hold to. Provided that they continue to behave as decent human beings, I really don't care. Just stop trying to dictate the stupid crap as public policy.

 

Oh wait! They can choose any option right now. Proof of the (non)existence of god is irrelevant to the positive statement that they could act as they say they would without god.

NoMoreCrazyPeople wrote:
Never ever did I say enything about free, I said "free."

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