A new 'star' appeared, watch the sky

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A new 'star' appeared, watch the sky

It's shortly after 6 PM here and my dad got a call from a friend in the city of Olomouc. On the south horizon, about 60 degrees above (which is quite high) there appeared a brightly white glowing object, resembling a star. It's not Venus, my dad checked that Venus is now on the west and very low above horizon.

The bright star should remain there long enough to be noticed by the world's public. Go outside, watch the sky, sweep the dust off your telescopes, call your local star observatory or whatever, there's a big glowing star up there, just like that! I have some photos, it's taken on the street, so stars are not visible there, but this one is very bright. Don't forget your cameras, and don't forget to post your photographs.
There's a fuckin' dense fog around here, I don't see anything, but I hope it will clear up soon enough.

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You better check it isn't

It could be Jupiter, which is visible as well currently, and is next brightest 'star' after Venus.

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Could also be the ISS.

Could also be the ISS.


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OMFG It's the aura of

OMFG It's the aura of Christ!

 


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BobSpence1 wrote:It could be

BobSpence1 wrote:

It could be Jupiter, which is visible as well currently, and is next brightest 'star' after Venus.

Nope, Jupiter is under the horizon now and here. I've seen it last week in conjunction with Venus. It was a nice look, but nothing to alert the world. Neither it could be Mars, Uranus, Saturn, Neptune or Pluto.
I'll provide some photos tomorrow. The ones I have are photographed against an orange street lights, which effectively hides all normal stars and planets on the camera, just that unknown star-like object still shines brightly. The difference in luminosity must be huge.

Well, it the fog disappeared and the sky is clear, but I don't see anything up there. Either it's already under the horizon, or it was UFO, which doesn't usually stay in one place for long. Gotta wait for more reports from the world.

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Luminon wrote:BobSpence1

Luminon wrote:

BobSpence1 wrote:

It could be Jupiter, which is visible as well currently, and is next brightest 'star' after Venus.

Nope, Jupiter is under the horizon now and here. I've seen it last week in conjunction with Venus. It was a nice look, but nothing to alert the world. Neither it could be Mars, Uranus, Saturn, Neptune or Pluto.
I'll provide some photos tomorrow. The ones I have are photographed against an orange street lights, which effectively hides all normal stars and planets on the camera, just that unknown star-like object still shines brightly. The difference in luminosity must be huge.

Well, it the fog disappeared and the sky is clear, but I don't see anything up there. Either it's already under the horizon, or it was UFO, which doesn't usually stay in one place for long. Gotta wait for more reports from the world.

You're right - I forgot how quickly it can change, I know it was prominent a week ago.

Where are you, by the way?

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/facepalm.Yeah. It could be

/facepalm.

Yeah. It could be either object within your false dichotomy.

Or maybe - just maybe - it was the International Space Station. Or some other satellite.

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"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

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BobSpence1 wrote:You're

BobSpence1 wrote:

You're right - I forgot how quickly it can change, I know it was prominent a week ago.

Where are you, by the way?

Yeah, and I'm lucky that my dad is an astrologer, and his program shows where all the planets are, including Quaoar and other bigger asteroids.
Btw, I live in Czech Republic, near Poland and Slovakia. Politically atheistic place, but infested with corporational monopoles,  corrupted politics, American military bases, antisocial Romes, shifty businessmen, you see, nothing is perfect, don't pack your suitcases yet Smiling

 

 

Kevin R Brown wrote:

/facepalm.

Yeah. It could be either object within your false dichotomy.

Or maybe - just maybe - it was the International Space Station. Or some other satellite.

Your statement would be much more hilarious if you would say it was probably the Sun


 

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...?Because I mentioned a

...?

Because I mentioned a real object rather than a fictitious one as my guess?


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 It is Wormwood, the star

 It is Wormwood, the star that falls from Heaven and makes the waters bitter.  It's in Revelation.  Or maybe it's planet Nubiru.  That might fit in with Lumey's perceptions a little better.  I wonder if it's giving off chemtrails, whatever it is.

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Luminon wrote:BobSpence1

Luminon wrote:

BobSpence1 wrote:

You're right - I forgot how quickly it can change, I know it was prominent a week ago.

Where are you, by the way?

Yeah, and I'm lucky that my dad is an astrologer, and his program shows where all the planets are, including Quaoar and other bigger asteroids.
Btw, I live in Czech Republic, near Poland and Slovakia. Politically atheistic place, but infested with corporational monopoles,  corrupted politics, American military bases, antisocial Romes, shifty businessmen, you see, nothing is perfect, don't pack your suitcases yet Smiling

I was mainly interested so I could look up what bright astronomical objects might be visible from your location.

I have visited Prague a couple of times as a tourist, most recently in 2003. Quite interesting.

Quote:

Kevin R Brown wrote:

/facepalm.

Yeah. It could be either object within your false dichotomy.

Or maybe - just maybe - it was the International Space Station. Or some other satellite.

Your statement would be much more hilarious if you would say it was probably the Sun

So you aren't aware presumably that when the ISS can occasionally be at such an angle that the reflection of the sun off its solar panels can make it one of the brightest objects in the sky.

Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality

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 I don't think it;s the ISS

 I don't think it;s the ISS as the NASA charts don't show it over that area right now.

 

***** Prague *****




 

THE FOLLOWING ISS SIGHTINGS ARE POSSIBLE FROM FRI DEC 12 TO WED DEC 24

 

SATELLITE LOCAL DURATION MAX ELEV APPROACH DEPARTURE
DATE/TIME (MIN) (DEG) (DEG-DIR) (DEG-DIR)
ISS Thu Dec 18/06:54 AM < 1 11 10 above SSE 11 above SSE
ISS Fri Dec 19/07:19 AM 2 29 10 above SSW 29 above SSE
ISS Sat Dec 20/06:12 AM 1 14 11 above S 14 above SE
ISS Sun Dec 21/06:38 AM 3 33 10 above SW 31 above SE
ISS Mon Dec 22/05:31 AM 2 16 13 above S 15 above SE
ISS Mon Dec 22/07:05 AM 6 71 10 above WSW 10 above ENE
ISS Tue Dec 23/05:58 AM 2 36 26 above SSW 27 above ESE
ISS Wed Dec 24/06:25 AM 4 77 25 above WSW 16 above ENE

 

 

Or go to this link here.

____________________________________________________________
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How many hours have passed,

How many hours have passed, and still no mention of a mystery star on television, radio, or internet? Must be a conspiracy. zero evidence + wild speculations + no media attention to zero evidence and wild speculations = cover up!

The OP said that Lum had photos, and that it was too foggy to see anything. Which is it? Maybe his astrologer father can calculate the gravitational influence of the Ob/Gyn that delivered him, factor in the pull of the giant singularity at the center of our galaxy, retroactively add Sedna and Eris to the equation, and then explain this visibility/non-visibility phenomena to us. But I have to suspect that he'll need to examine some sheep intestines, bob a plum, and maybe drop a hit of acid before we get any real answers.

Edited to remove error.

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As you say, it doesn't seem

As you say, it doesn't seem like it was the ISS, but I am mildly curious why Luminon thought the suggestion was so funny...

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All right, so here is the

All right, so here is the promised photograph. I picked the worst one to show, how the object is visible despite of the unhospitable conditions (street lamps). The object was a single spot, the main photo is of course moved during a long camera exposition. On the side there are 100% scale details from other photos which are better.
http://img399.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lightonskyolomoucgw5.jpg
I could provide several megabytes of other photos, but this seems to be nothing big after all. I'm sure that more of such a stuff will appear in the world, maybe even something really big.

BobSpence1 wrote:

As you say, it doesn't seem like it was the ISS, but I am mildly curious why Luminon thought the suggestion was so funny...

Well, I find it entertaining that the skeptics are so desperate to find an easy rationale to explain something, instead of simply saying that they don't know. The occurence of such an objects on the sky is increasing rapidly, and some cases, if they are authentic, are absolutely impossible to explain by anything we know. What a next banal explanation will be? A silent military helicopter with an installed discotheque stroboscope scared the city at night? Or a big swarm of fireflies got blown upsides by wind streams and carried across the sky? Maybe a big hungry owl attacked a person carrying a flashlight, and the flashlight got hung on it's talons and carried around by the owl's flight?

 

Anyway, if such an increasing occurence cannot go on forever unnoticed. I had read a prognosis somewhere that one particularly big should appear and be visible even in a daylight. It's not impossible, when such a thing already happened 20 years ago. Don't ask me how, I just guess. Shortly after the woman from Olomouc called and send the photos.
And the Christmas is soon to come, I know it sounds a bit corny to see a bright star on Christmas, but I'm sure all the world would love it, maybe except of astronomers.

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Curious. The suggestion of

Curious. The suggestion of the ISS was NOT a desperate one. If it had been in that area of the sky at the time , it would have been a plausible candidate to explain what you described, including the fact that it disappeared, as a reflection from the ISS would as its position relative to you and the sun would have shifted it from the position where the reflection was visible, as it progressed in its orbit.

As I observed before, you, Luminon, are the desperate one, desperately trying to interpret everything that you can't explain as a normal event into evidence of UFO's or other paranormal manifestations, laughing at quite reasonable mundane options...

Doesn't there aren't currently unexplained things happening, but your serious lack of understanding of alternative explanations is a problem for you.

If you were aware of the possibility of flashes from the solar collectors of satellites, you would have checked that out first thing, to strengthen your own case. You would have known to check for apparent movement, which would have allowed you to present stronger evidence that it couldn't be a satellite if it was not showing the expected motion thru relative to the stars.

Anyway, there are so many amateur and professional astronomers covering the sky these days, that anything like what you describe that isn't a well known phenomenon is bound to be reported, unless it was something much closer to your and your friend's locations.

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BobSpence1 wrote:It could be

BobSpence1 wrote:

It could be Jupiter, which is visible as well currently, and is next brightest 'star' after Venus.

Speaking of which, Bob, did you see the smilie face last week, we had a flawless view of it here. Probably the coolest thing I've seen ever.

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Archeopteryx wrote:OMFG It's

Archeopteryx wrote:

OMFG It's the aura of Christ!

 

In all seriousness, I cant think of specifics. Arn't their older motifs of bright stars in mythology that claim that "help is comming" in the form of a super hero?

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Brian37 wrote:Archeopteryx

Brian37 wrote:

Archeopteryx wrote:

OMFG It's the aura of Christ!

 

In all seriousness, I cant think of specifics. Arn't their older motifs of bright stars in mythology that claim that "help is comming" in the form of a super hero?

 

My understanding is that Christianity, and almost all goodforce-versus-evilforce religions, stole the "the superhero savior cometh and doth intend to smite all evil forever" theme from Zoroaster.

 

 

A place common to all will be maintained by none. A religion common to all is perhaps not much different.


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Eloise wrote:Speaking of

Eloise wrote:

Speaking of which, Bob, did you see the smilie face last week, we had a flawless view of it here. Probably the coolest thing I've seen ever.

Is this an astronomical smiley face? Do you have pictures of this? That would be cool.

[edit] Found it:

//www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/3073551185/

 

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BobSpence1 wrote:Curious.

BobSpence1 wrote:

Curious. The suggestion of the ISS was NOT a desperate one. If it had been in that area of the sky at the time , it would have been a plausible candidate to explain what you described, including the fact that it disappeared, as a reflection from the ISS would as its position relative to you and the sun would have shifted it from the position where the reflection was visible, as it progressed in its orbit.

As I observed before, you, Luminon, are the desperate one, desperately trying to interpret everything that you can't explain as a normal event into evidence of UFO's or other paranormal manifestations, laughing at quite reasonable mundane options...

Doesn't there aren't currently unexplained things happening, but your serious lack of understanding of alternative explanations is a problem for you.

If you were aware of the possibility of flashes from the solar collectors of satellites, you would have checked that out first thing, to strengthen your own case. You would have known to check for apparent movement, which would have allowed you to present stronger evidence that it couldn't be a satellite if it was not showing the expected motion thru relative to the stars.

I thought it's automatical, that it's a common sense to check if it isn't a space station. I thought that the people aren't that much stupid and they know about Venus, Jupiter or space stations, and when they see something that doesn't fit in there, they grab a camera and alert the friends. For example, something changing colors or changing direction is immediately suspicious, and an extreme speed or no speed at all are another suspicious factors. Without the common sense, I'd be startled whenever I look on the sky. You're probably used to a TV shows full of people who discovered the ISS space station for the first time. I didn't know I have to put out one utterly common (though beautiful) space object after another, so we can be sure that something is going on. The really unusual things should be obvious.

Furthermore, I had read somewhere (multiple sites actually, it's a common statement), that 95% of UFO reports can be explained by mundane causes. Sometimes there's an add that the remaining 5% are not witnessed well enough to decide. Well, this is not what the reports says. They contains a detailed information on very unusual activity, which can not be mistaken with anything. So it is a question of their authenticity.  Considering, that dozens, maybe hundreds of these events happens every month all across the world, without any measurable benefit for anyone specific, there is currently no force on Earth which could have finances, technology and motivation to replicate such a parade. It also means that there is no motivation to fake them, most of the sightings is given out by common people, who have more problems with it than a benefit. The only imaginable motivation on our planet is a short-termed commercial interest, but this is not how UFO behaves.
Surely, as around every unusual phenomenon there are crazy claims, like the abduction, but I know a lot of UFO witnesses, having heard of not even one alien abductee. I think it's an urban legend.
The monthly collection of UFO sightings in my favorite magazine are always significant and reported by various sources or institutions. (websites, names, time, place, etc) I can't verify every such a report, but I obviously, Stephenville Empire Tribune, Alitalia Airlines, The Sun (UK magazine) and other sources or officials are willing to put their name behind these messages.
An interesting and recent event was this October in Argentina: http://www.ufocasebook.com/2008c/chicoanalanding.html
 

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Quote:On the side there are

Quote:
On the side there are 100% scale details from other photos which are better.
http://img399.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lightonskyolomoucgw5.jpg

Luminon, that photo is a fake, and we both know it.

 

Shame on you.

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Kevin R Brown wrote:Quote:On

Kevin R Brown wrote:

Quote:
On the side there are 100% scale details from other photos which are better.
http://img399.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lightonskyolomoucgw5.jpg

Luminon, that photo is a fake, and we both know it.

 

Shame on you.

You're pushing the limits, man. All right, let's make a bet. I upload the original files and you check the EXIF data if they're true. If yes, you will remove my 'theist' badge. If not, I won't visit this forum for a month.
Do you agree?
If not, pull back and apologize.


 

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HisWillness wrote:Eloise

HisWillness wrote:

Eloise wrote:

Speaking of which, Bob, did you see the smilie face last week, we had a flawless view of it here. Probably the coolest thing I've seen ever.

Is this an astronomical smiley face? Do you have pictures of this? That would be cool.

[edit] Found it:

//www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/3073551185/

 

It is false to always claim that one religion "stole" an idea from another. What would be more accurate, just like evolution, ideas get passed down and filtered and change through multiple cultures.

Zoroaster certainly has the many of the same motifs. So do the Ancient Egyptians. That doesn't mean Christianity stole the ideas. It means that the ideas made their way into Christianty through multiple sources and the details and names changed over long periods of time.

The halo is a perfict example. While historians cant directly connect the Christian halo with ancient Egypt. It is obvious that the "sun disk" worn by Isis has strikingly similer shape and quality and meaning.

The "sun disk" symbolizes the staple that gives us life. The "halo" symbolizes the purity that gives us eternal life.

But the motif is the same. Life is provided by this symbol.

We certainly don't have video of a Christian stealing a artifact with a sun disk. But the Egyptians did not exist in a vacuum either.

 

Language does the same. Perfect example is something I learned in College. The mid evil word for "was" was "swa". Just like "dope" has several meanings, even though we don't exactly know when the word was first uttered, it has changed over time and has taken on several different meanings with different detail.

 

 

 

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 Luminon wrote:All right,

 

Luminon wrote:

All right, so here is the promised photograph. I picked the worst one to show, how the object is visible despite of the unhospitable conditions (street lamps). The object was a single spot, the main photo is of course moved during a long camera exposition. On the side there are 100% scale details from other photos which are better.
http://img399.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lightonskyolomoucgw5.jpg
I could provide several megabytes of other photos, but this seems to be nothing big after all. I'm sure that more of such a stuff will appear in the world, maybe even something really big.
 

Ok Lum, you claim to have taken this photo yourself. So it would be easy for you to take another photo of the same spot in the sky from the same angle or vantage point during the day. This would give us a better idea of the position it occupied in the sky as we compare it to visible objects.

And by the way, if you want to claim that your photographs demonstrate motion of the object, you might want to explain the motion of the street lights as well. It is obvious that the ' motion ' conveyed by the photo was due to a shaking hand or otherwise unsteady platform while snapping the shot. The object shows the same " L " shaped distortion that the street lights do in the photo.  That it lines up rather nicely with the row of street lights to the right makes me suspicious as well, but a simple daylight photo of the area could easily rule this out.

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Desdenova wrote:Ok Lum, you

Desdenova wrote:

Ok Lum, you claim to have taken this photo yourself. So it would be easy for you to take another photo of the same spot in the sky from the same angle or vantage point during the day. This would give us a better idea of the position it occupied in the sky as we compare it to visible objects.

No. The photograph was taken in the city of Olomouc. I don't live there. A co-worker of our family took them. Here was fog all around, at the time. OP says that. It seems to be a local phenomenon, while I expected something bigger and more distant, visible globally. Not this time, but I the increasing trend suggests it might happen, hypothetically.

Desdenova wrote:
And by the way, if you want to claim that your photographs demonstrate motion of the object, you might want to explain the motion of the street lights as well. It is obvious that the ' motion ' conveyed by the photo was due to a shaking hand or otherwise unsteady platform while snapping the shot. The object shows the same " L " shaped distortion that the street lights do in the photo.  That it lines up rather nicely with the row of street lights to the right makes me suspicious as well, but a simple daylight photo of the area could easily rule this out.

No, I don't say that. Notice the sentence in what you quoted:
The object was a single spot, the main photo is of course moved during a long camera exposition.

 

 

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Eloise wrote:BobSpence1

Eloise wrote:

BobSpence1 wrote:

It could be Jupiter, which is visible as well currently, and is next brightest 'star' after Venus.

Speaking of which, Bob, did you see the smilie face last week, we had a flawless view of it here. Probably the coolest thing I've seen ever.

No, we have had cloud over most of the time it was in the best smiley face arrangement. It may have been visible at some point in a break in the cloud, but I wasn't outside at the right time.

I did see a rather stretched-out version of it later.

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Luminon wrote:Desdenova

Luminon wrote:

Desdenova wrote:

Ok Lum, you claim to have taken this photo yourself. So it would be easy for you to take another photo of the same spot in the sky from the same angle or vantage point during the day. This would give us a better idea of the position it occupied in the sky as we compare it to visible objects.

No. The photograph was taken in the city of Olomouc. I don't live there. A co-worker of our family took them. Here was fog all around, at the time. OP says that. It seems to be a local phenomenon, while I expected something bigger and more distant, visible globally. Not this time, but I the increasing trend suggests it might happen, hypothetically.

Desdenova wrote:
And by the way, if you want to claim that your photographs demonstrate motion of the object, you might want to explain the motion of the street lights as well. It is obvious that the ' motion ' conveyed by the photo was due to a shaking hand or otherwise unsteady platform while snapping the shot. The object shows the same " L " shaped distortion that the street lights do in the photo.  That it lines up rather nicely with the row of street lights to the right makes me suspicious as well, but a simple daylight photo of the area could easily rule this out.

No, I don't say that. Notice the sentence in what you quoted:
The object was a single spot, the main photo is of course moved during a long camera exposition.

 

 

My mistake then, but the way you were hopping around made it sound to me as though you took the photographs. I guess then that the family friend needs to provide a daylight photo of the scene. I otherwise can't tell that it isn't a distant streetlight viewed through fog. Looks more like a case of overactive imagination to me than anything unexplainable. That it is entirely local rules out your original wild speculation that it was a planet. That it seems the same color of light as the less distant street lamps makes me think it is just anouther lamp rather than to spuriously conclude that it is a flying saucer.

It is not my duty to explain away every light in the sky, especially when those lights are the same color and height of nearby streetlights. But hey, if you want to shove your head up your ass and ignore reality, more power to you. You might want to consider taking your disjointed fantastical ramblings to a forum more prone to flights of fancy than an atheist board, though. Like Dawkins, most of us don't suffer fools gladly.

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Luminon wrote:BobSpence1

Luminon wrote:

BobSpence1 wrote:

Curious. The suggestion of the ISS was NOT a desperate one. If it had been in that area of the sky at the time , it would have been a plausible candidate to explain what you described, including the fact that it disappeared, as a reflection from the ISS would as its position relative to you and the sun would have shifted it from the position where the reflection was visible, as it progressed in its orbit.

As I observed before, you, Luminon, are the desperate one, desperately trying to interpret everything that you can't explain as a normal event into evidence of UFO's or other paranormal manifestations, laughing at quite reasonable mundane options...

Doesn't there aren't currently unexplained things happening, but your serious lack of understanding of alternative explanations is a problem for you.

If you were aware of the possibility of flashes from the solar collectors of satellites, you would have checked that out first thing, to strengthen your own case. You would have known to check for apparent movement, which would have allowed you to present stronger evidence that it couldn't be a satellite if it was not showing the expected motion thru relative to the stars.

I thought it's automatical, that it's a common sense to check if it isn't a space station. I thought that the people aren't that much stupid and they know about Venus, Jupiter or space stations, and when they see something that doesn't fit in there, they grab a camera and alert the friends. For example, something changing colors or changing direction is immediately suspicious, and an extreme speed or no speed at all are another suspicious factors. Without the common sense, I'd be startled whenever I look on the sky. You're probably used to a TV shows full of people who discovered the ISS space station for the first time. I didn't know I have to put out one utterly common (though beautiful) space object after another, so we can be sure that something is going on. The really unusual things should be obvious.

OK, but in your earlier post you only mentioned that your Dad had a map of astronomical objects, you didn't say whether either of you had actually checked for satellites which might have been in the right position to explain it.

Quote:

Furthermore, I had read somewhere (multiple sites actually, it's a common statement), that 95% of UFO reports can be explained by mundane causes. Sometimes there's an add that the remaining 5% are not witnessed well enough to decide. Well, this is not what the reports says. They contains a detailed information on very unusual activity, which can not be mistaken with anything. So it is a question of their authenticity.  Considering, that dozens, maybe hundreds of these events happens every month all across the world, without any measurable benefit for anyone specific, there is currently no force on Earth which could have finances, technology and motivation to replicate such a parade. It also means that there is no motivation to fake them, most of the sightings is given out by common people, who have more problems with it than a benefit. The only imaginable motivation on our planet is a short-termed commercial interest, but this is not how UFO behaves.

And we know from many accounts that most "common people" do not "automatically" do checks to eliminate satellites or all other possible explanations before reporting, which is ok because they may not be aware of the other possibilities or have ready access to the information.

We also know that some people do fake these things, mostly for the fun of it, and it wouldn't take more than a computer and/or a camera and a graphics program to fake any of the UFO photos, we know people have actually done this in some cases. No need to propose a global conspiracy. Like the crop circle stuff, 'motivation' is not a problem.

And these days there are a lot more helicopters flying around at night, so if they are high, and the conditions are such, or they are high enough, you may not hear them. I know I have seen them here and in USA, they would readily match many of the reports of lights either stationary, or moving in ways that planets or satellites wouldn't, and might even turn their lights of at times.

Not trying to explain everything away by this, just pointing out something that would fit very well many 'lights in the sky' reports, as well as any actual increase in such reports.

Quote:

Surely, as around every unusual phenomenon there are crazy claims, like the abduction, but I know a lot of UFO witnesses, having heard of not even one alien abductee. I think it's an urban legend.
The monthly collection of UFO sightings in my favorite magazine are always significant and reported by various sources or institutions. (websites, names, time, place, etc) I can't verify every such a report, but I obviously, Stephenville Empire Tribune, Alitalia Airlines, The Sun (UK magazine) and other sources or officials are willing to put their name behind these messages.
An interesting and recent event was this October in Argentina: http://www.ufocasebook.com/2008c/chicoanalanding.html

Interesting - yes. The marks themselves do not seem to be anything particularly new or outside the range of other flattened grain events, as far I can tell from the photo.

Pity they don't show any photos clearly matching the reports of 'meter deep' marks.

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Brian37 wrote:Language does

Brian37 wrote:

Language does the same. Perfect example is something I learned in College. The mid evil word for "was" was "swa". Just like "dope" has several meanings, even though we don't exactly know when the word was first uttered, it has changed over time and has taken on several different meanings with different detail.

 

Firstly, I agree with everything you said about the inappropriateness of the word "stole" in the way I used it. It is definitely more of a memetic evolution (apologies if you're an anti-meme-ist).

 

Just a minor, friendly correction. I've been studying Old English for a while now and the medieval word for "was" was actually just "wæs" (rhymes with "brass" ).

The word "swa" was the Anglo-Saxon equivalent of "like" or "as".

For example, in the Anglo-Saxon version fo the Lord's Prayer, the line "Forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors" would be written:

"Forgyf us ure gyltas swa swa we forgyfað urum gyltendum".

 

I youtubed myself a few months ago reciting the Our Father in OE: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHtvm-IQD6o

 

And more recently, Cædmon's Hymn:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmL2NxIEueg

 

I, too, am a language lover. =]

 

A place common to all will be maintained by none. A religion common to all is perhaps not much different.


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Archeopteryx wrote:Brian37

Archeopteryx wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

Language does the same. Perfect example is something I learned in College. The mid evil word for "was" was "swa". Just like "dope" has several meanings, even though we don't exactly know when the word was first uttered, it has changed over time and has taken on several different meanings with different detail.

 

Firstly, I agree with everything you said about the inappropriateness of the word "stole" in the way I used it. It is definitely more of a memetic evolution (apologies if you're an anti-meme-ist).

 

Just a minor, friendly correction. I've been studying Old English for a while now and the medieval word for "was" was actually just "wæs" (rhymes with "brass" ).

The word "swa" was the Anglo-Saxon equivalent of "like" or "as".

For example, in the Anglo-Saxon version fo the Lord's Prayer, the line "Forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors" would be written:

"Forgyf us ure gyltas swa swa we forgyfað urum gyltendum".

 

I youtubed myself a few months ago reciting the Our Father in OE: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHtvm-IQD6o

 

And more recently, Cædmon's Hymn:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmL2NxIEueg

 

I, too, am a language lover. =]

 

I know a bit of a little of a lot but I am not an expert in one thing. I know that my car battery creates electricity in combination with my altinator, but I don't presume that an elf made my car because I cant build one from scratch.

I just happend to learn that "swa" thing in college, and btw, thank you for correcting that.

That doesn't mean I trace every bit of history of every culture and every language in history. It just makes sense that religion, like words can  change, just like every year scientists need to create a new flu vacine because the virus has changed.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Actually this "new star"

Actually this "new star" sighting is not in any way a rare event.

 

Bright lights in the sky which manifest themselves only to tremors-inflicted mates of fathers of known crackpots seem, on the basis of the crackpots' own reporting of them in any case, to be quite mundane in their frequency.

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Luminon, you just admitted

Luminon, you just admitted that you didn't even take the damn photograph. So if it was someone smeared the light by jarring the camera as they took the picture, you would never have known it.

Would you take a deep breath, step back for a minute and just look at the picture? That is plainly not a fast-moving object. It's an optical effect.

 

If you can't admit to yourself that your dad is a fraud and these 'friends' of yours are likewise, well, that's your choice. But I'd like to think that when it comes right down to the brass tax, you're really just pretending.

Quote:
"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940


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kev, i have to ask, what

kev, i have to ask, what exactly is the reason for luminon's theist badge?  i'm asking you since he seems to imply you gave it to him.  most of the theists on this site seem to have no problem with the label but he seems to resent it.  if he actually is a theist, why should he?

granted, i haven't gone through all his posts, but i've never seen him say he believes in god.  i mean, believing in little green men and karma may be irrational, but it's not believing in god.  IAGAY goes on and on about his figurative self-divinity but he's never been slapped with a theist badge.  is the theist badge for anyone who says something "crazy" or what?

on a related note, everybody and their brother has a superfan badge now and i still don't have one, though i requested it on the appropriate thread.  come on, if we can scan posts for the slightest excuse to slap the big T moniker, how 'bout showin' a little love for a regular for three quarters of a year now?

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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I didn't give him the badge;

I didn't give him the badge; I don't have that capacity. I did, however, point-out to our local mod God a thread where Luminon had essentially claimed deism for himself and suggested that this was cause for a theist label. He agreed.

I'd PM either a high level mod or one of the core members if you're interested in the superfan label, iwbiek.

 

The thread that invoked the theist stamp is right here, the specific statement as follows:

Quote:
This is why my notion of atheism is a bit extended. It doesn't judge a belief, hypothesis, presumption, knowledge, of (g)God(s) or anything like that as it's subject. It considers if a person worships, fears, loves, hates, or appeases this presumed being(s). (more complete list is here) I believe that even if some god would be scientifically proven to be real, all of the local atheists would acknowledge his existence, but they wouldn't join the worshipping crowds, and so they would remain atheists by my definition.
Maybe this definition isn't even atheism, maybe there's already another name for it, did anyone ever hear about it?

 

Quote:
"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940


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HisWillness wrote:Eloise

HisWillness wrote:

Eloise wrote:

Speaking of which, Bob, did you see the smilie face last week, we had a flawless view of it here. Probably the coolest thing I've seen ever.

Is this an astronomical smiley face? Do you have pictures of this? That would be cool.

[edit] Found it:

//www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/3073551185/

 

Yep that's the one. My sister took this Photo:

 

from Stanthorpe which is out in the country area so the planets are really bright.

I didn't get to take any personally cause I didn't have a camera (long story) but I had everyone I know take pics for me so I have at least two more coming.

Theist badge qualifier : Gnostic/Philosophical Panentheist

www.mathematicianspictures.com


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Kevin R Brown wrote:Luminon,

Kevin R Brown wrote:

Luminon, you just admitted that you didn't even take the damn photograph. So if it was someone smeared the light by jarring the camera as they took the picture, you would never have known it.

Would you take a deep breath, step back for a minute and just look at the picture? That is plainly not a fast-moving object. It's an optical effect.

 

If you can't admit to yourself that your dad is a fraud and these 'friends' of yours are likewise, well, that's your choice. But I'd like to think that when it comes right down to the brass tax, you're really just pretending.

When I had read this, I wanted to scream. How many times should I write that I never considered this one as a moving object? Not fast, certainly. The hands of a photographer were shaky because of a cold. The main photo shows a conditions highly polluted by light, which effectively filters out any stars, but the object is still visible. The details on the right are from another photographs. I write it again - the object was a single spot, the line is caused by a shaky hands and a prolonged photographic exposition.
As for an optical effect, I have it photographed from multiple places on the street. This is one of them:
DSCN0342.JPG (scroll down, wait for a countdown, enter the appeared text into a rectangle, then push the orange button and download the 2MB original photo)
 

Kevin and iwbiek: The most funny thing is, that the post which tipped Kevin's scales was NOT AIMED AT ANYONE, certainly not myself It was rather a speculation about some implications of atheism. I don't believe that in case of a scientific proof of any God, the former atheists would turn to be a typical theists, who visits churches. Instead, I'd expect they would reject the practice of worship itself as a primitive thing, they would mainly live a good life not trying to climb up the hypothetical God's ass, as it is in that Marcus Aurelius' quote. I asked if such an approach has a name. Kevin called that Deism, and he somehow applied it to me, calling me Deist, and Deism is a form of theism.
But Kevin is not educated to recognize who and what I am, probably nobody on this forum is. During history, there was a rather blurry line between science, religion and esoteric knowledge. While the first two are deeply known here, esotericism isn't, and most of comments on it are as precise, as on atheists eating babies. While today most of people knows a difference between science and religion, they doesn't know the difference between religion and esotericism. I have no idea how to introduce such an extremely vast paradigm properly, (I also feel no need to convert anyone) but if there should be an extremely simplified, booby-summary of the most basic and fundamental implications of it, then go for I.A.G.A.Y.'s posts and then watch What the BLEEP do we know 1 and 2 with your left brain hemisphere turned off. I may be weak at science, even worse in any kind of religion, (specially organized) but I am good at esotericism. This forum is not accustomed for it, but it's not barred either. Either way, I'm not your typical fellow atheist, nor your typical Christian neighbour, but I wish you both to live long and prosper Smiling But more to the atheist. Christians had a free pass for the last 2000 years.

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Quote:But Kevin is not

Quote:

But Kevin is not educated to recognize who and what I am, probably nobody on this forum is.

 

Holy fuck - is there no end to this fool's crap?

 

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Nordmann wrote:Quote:But

Nordmann wrote:

Quote:

But Kevin is not educated to recognize who and what I am, probably nobody on this forum is.

 

Holy fuck - is there no end to this fool's crap?

 

I don't know about Kevin, but to me Luminon comes off as a new age mysticist, believing in a hodge podge of nonsense like kirlian photography, alien visitors, the planet Nibiru, ghosts, phychic powers, and astrology. I would imagine that he also believes in the hollow earth, Derro, spirit guides, a Roswell/Area 51 conspiracy, Bigfoot, the Loch Ness monster, Mothman, the Jersey Devil, Unicorns, Smurfs, Care Bears, and Rainbow Bright.

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to recognise bullshit, so I imagine that just about everyone here is educated enough to realize that Lum suffers from a terminal case of recto-cranial inversion.

It takes a village to raise an idiot.

Save a tree, eat a vegetarian.

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Desdenova wrote:Mothmani

Desdenova wrote:

Mothman

i don't believe in it myself, but i have a lot of family from point pleasant, WV, who were around when that shit happened.  they didn't see anything themselves but directly knew several people who did.  weird shit. 

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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Actually, iwbiek, an

Actually, iwbiek, an acquaintance of mine one wrote a large investigative piece on the 'mothman' phenomena, and more or less conclusively laid-out the case that what people had seen was either a Gold or Bald Eagle. The first people to report sighting 'mothman' were not familiar with larger birds of prey in North America, and after the first sightings, it was all just mimic behavior.

I actually had the document kicking-around in one of my Yahoo mailboxboxes a while ago... I'll see if I can find it for you.

Quote:
"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940


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Nordmann wrote: Quote: But

Nordmann wrote:
Quote:
But Kevin is not educated to recognize who and what I am, probably nobody on this forum is.
Holy fuck - is there no end to this fool's crap?

It might be for a month, if Kevin would accept the bet and win.


Desdenova wrote:

I don't know about Kevin, but to me Luminon comes off as a new age mysticist, believing in a hodge podge of nonsense like kirlian photography, alien visitors, the planet Nibiru, ghosts, phychic powers, and astrology. I would imagine that he also believes in the hollow earth, Derro, spirit guides, a Roswell/Area 51 conspiracy, Bigfoot, the Loch Ness monster, Mothman, the Jersey Devil, Unicorns, Smurfs, Care Bears, and Rainbow Bright.

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to recognise bullshit, so I imagine that just about everyone here is educated enough to realize that Lum suffers from a terminal case of recto-cranial inversion.

Yeah, New Age, and a vast amount of stuff called by this name is the most common form in which people like me are known. But contrary to your imagination, instead of watching Teletubbies, I prefer to read (yes, read a lot) about dealing with all global crises and I don't avoid the lines containing a numbers of the dead.


Also, when guessing anything about a New-Age like guy, be prepared that a great part of your guesses can be false. These people can believe in a clearly determined set of bullshit, and utterly disbelieve in another set of ideas, just as shitty for a normal observer.

Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.


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Kevin R Brown

Kevin R Brown wrote:

Actually, iwbiek, an acquaintance of mine one wrote a large investigative piece on the 'mothman' phenomena, and more or less conclusively laid-out the case that what people had seen was either a Gold or Bald Eagle. The first people to report sighting 'mothman' were not familiar with larger birds of prey in North America, and after the first sightings, it was all just mimic behavior.

I actually had the document kicking-around in one of my Yahoo mailboxboxes a while ago... I'll see if I can find it for you.

definitely send it my way if you find it.  i don't think any of my family believes it either, though it makes them uneasy, especially since they knew people who died in that bridge collapse.

seems like i read a similar theory, but it said it was maybe a crane or stork of some kind.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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Luminon wrote:Nordmann

Luminon wrote:

Nordmann wrote:
Quote:
But Kevin is not educated to recognize who and what I am, probably nobody on this forum is.
Holy fuck - is there no end to this fool's crap?

It might be for a month, if Kevin would accept the bet and win.


Desdenova wrote:

I don't know about Kevin, but to me Luminon comes off as a new age mysticist, believing in a hodge podge of nonsense like kirlian photography, alien visitors, the planet Nibiru, ghosts, phychic powers, and astrology. I would imagine that he also believes in the hollow earth, Derro, spirit guides, a Roswell/Area 51 conspiracy, Bigfoot, the Loch Ness monster, Mothman, the Jersey Devil, Unicorns, Smurfs, Care Bears, and Rainbow Bright.

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to recognise bullshit, so I imagine that just about everyone here is educated enough to realize that Lum suffers from a terminal case of recto-cranial inversion.

Yeah, New Age, and a vast amount of stuff called by this name is the most common form in which people like me are known. But contrary to your imagination, instead of watching Teletubbies, I prefer to read (yes, read a lot) about dealing with all global crises and I don't avoid the lines containing a numbers of the dead.

 

Also, when guessing anything about a New-Age like guy, be prepared that a great part of your guesses can be false. These people can believe in a clearly determined set of bullshit, and utterly disbelieve in another set of ideas, just as shitty for a normal observer.

So, New Age with a good amount of spoon fed paranoia mixed in? I believe folks like you were once called "useful idiots".

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin