anti-religious books

godisgoneonhoneymoon
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anti-religious books

Hi guys once again. I need your help. First i have to tell you that i am from afghanistan.
i have lived there and i am going back there shortly. and yeah when i say i have lived
there i mean i have lived there when Talibans were there.
I want exact, good and polite kind of information or arguments to prove to someone religious
that all this religious staff are human made and there is no external force involved. Or if
anyone can send me any book, that would be great.

And one thing about the community: i feel there is nobody from muslem world here, why is that
so? I accept the rate of non-religious people is quite low in muslem world but still there are
alot of them. Even in afghanistan i have lots of unreligious friends, maybe for some of you who
accept directly what media give them, it looks like a joke. but it is true. you can find many
antireligious people there, especially in big cities. ok i dont want you all to start about
afghanistan. because everyone knows who distroyed it.

anyway i am happy to join this community. because i feel there are many like me, a feeling which
wasnt easy to have earlier.

and one last thing i want to say is

If there is no religion or even if there is, but atleast is not taken serious, there will be
very less war in the world; and i would have enjoyed my life more instead of thinking
how to help my country all the time.

Thank you all in advance.

Religion makes me suffer everyday!


A_Nony_Mouse
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godisgoneonhoneymoon

godisgoneonhoneymoon wrote:

Hi guys once again. I need your help. First i have to tell you that i am from afghanistan. i have lived there and i am going back there shortly. and yeah when i say i have lived there i mean i have lived there when Talibans were there. I want exact, good and polite kind of information or arguments to prove to someone religious that all this religious staff are human made and there is no external force involved. Or if anyone can send me any book, that would be great.

That is probably impossible. Most writings against religion aren't. They are attacks upon the practice of that religion at the time and place in which they were written. One can imagine a successful diatribe against religion because it invented witchcraft and murdered people because of the invention. It may have been effective in its time but not today. In the west the most effective was Luther's manifest. It was not anti-religion but anti-catholicism.

If you really want something that works in Afghanistan you will probably have to write it. You can find several books today pointing to science as a great argument against religion. Without widespread knowledge of science they are worthless.

In practice the best way to promote an absence of religion is to make it a mark of social standing. It won't be deep but it will be a start. To make a lasting impression find tangible benefits to the absence of religion.

godisgoneonhoneymoon wrote:
And one thing about the community: i feel there is nobody from muslem world here, why is that so? I accept the rate of non-religious people is quite low in muslem world but still there are alot of them. Even in afghanistan i have lots of unreligious friends, maybe for some of you who accept directly what media give them, it looks like a joke. but it is true. you can find many antireligious people there, especially in big cities. ok i dont want you all to start about afghanistan. because everyone knows who distroyed it.

anyway i am happy to join this community. because i feel there are many like me, a feeling which wasnt easy to have earlier.

and one last thing i want to say is

If there is no religion or even if there is, but atleast is not taken serious, there will be very less war in the world; and i would have enjoyed my life more instead of thinking how to help my country all the time.

Thank you all in advance.

It is this montheism that created a god interested in war although a Hindu political group seems to have picked up on the idea lately. It is this same monotheism that created a god interested in what people do in the first place. Why a god would be interested is perverted to say the least.

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


butterbattle
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godisgoneonhoneymoon

godisgoneonhoneymoon wrote:

Hi guys once again. I need your help.

Hi again! Welcome to RRS.

Quote:
First i have to tell you that i am from afghanistan. i have lived there and i am going back there shortly. and yeah when i say i have lived there i mean i have lived there when Talibans were there. I want exact, good and polite kind of information or arguments to prove to someone religious that all this religious staff are human made and there is no external force involved. Or if anyone can send me any book, that would be great.

I haven't read much of this kind of material, but, just off the top of my head: Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Carl Sagan, Bertrand Russell, etc. Have you read the Noble Quran? If you haven't, I would actually start there, as well as at least the Bible and Torah. A general knowledge of science and a good grasp of common logical fallacies is also extremely helpful. 

Quote:
And one thing about the community: i feel there is nobody from muslem world here, why is that so? I accept the rate of non-religious people is quite low in muslem world but still there are alot of them. Even in afghanistan i have lots of unreligious friends, maybe for some of you who accept directly what media give them, it looks like a joke. but it is true. you can find many
antireligious people there, especially in big cities. ok i dont want you all to start about afghanistan. because everyone knows who distroyed it.

This website was founded in America; Pennsylvania, was it? Also, Americans and Europeans go online more than anyone else anyways. 

Quote:
anyway i am happy to join this community. because i feel there are many like me, a feeling which
wasnt easy to have earlier.

We're happy to have you here. 

 

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


Yellow_Number_Five
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godisgoneonhoneymoon

godisgoneonhoneymoon wrote:

Hi guys once again. I need your help. First i have to tell you that i am from afghanistan.
i have lived there and i am going back there shortly. and yeah when i say i have lived
there i mean i have lived there when Talibans were there.
I want exact, good and polite kind of information or arguments to prove to someone religious
that all this religious staff are human made and there is no external force involved. Or if
anyone can send me any book, that would be great.

Well, if ALL if took were a book to convince a person, we would not be having this discussion. That said, there are some books that are a good introduction to reason and atheism that won't put off the average open minded person.

I HIGHLY recommend  The Demon Haunted World by Carl Sagan above all other books. This book is just about the greatest introduction to reason you will find. It is not an atheist book, by the way. Sagan does not argue against the concept of gods, but rather attempts to educate the reader on how to think critically. Teach a person to think critically, and the rest usually comes on its own.

Quote:
And one thing about the community: i feel there is nobody from muslem world here, why is that
so?

There have been a few, and we've had Muslims on our show as well, they are just a minority, because we primarily reach an audience in the US and there are simply fewer Muslims than Christians in the US. Anyone is welcome to join the forum.

Quote:
anyway i am happy to join this community. because i feel there are many like me, a feeling which

 

wasnt easy to have earlier.

Welcome, I hope you enjoy your time here and learn a lot.

Quote:
and one last thing i want to say is

if there is no religion or even if there is, but atleast is not taken serious, there will be
very less war in the world; and i would have enjoyed my life more instead of thinking
how to help my country all the time.

Thank you all in advance.

Thanks for taking the time to share that with us.

I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world. - Richard Dawkins

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mrjonno
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Not convinced trying to

Not convinced trying to spread secularism in a totally 3rd world zero infrastructure poverty ridden war ridden country is at this time really worthwhile. Far better to work on Pakistan which does have a secular movement  (even if its struggling) and has a functioning economy that is linked to the rest of the world. Once that is properly secular then iits influence be used on Afghanistan

 

 


Answers in Gene...
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Well, I am not sure exactly

Well, I am not sure exactly what you need. However, it might help to break the matter down into categories. On the one hand, there is no real loss of material that is critical of religion in general. Then too, there is plenty of material that is critical of specific religions.

 

I don't really know what things are like in Afghanistan but assuming that there are certain similarities to what is going on in this part of the world, that stuff probably will not be a huge help. After all, the potential audience for such work is probably already on board with the agenda. Those people who are not will probably not want to read such material.

 

Probably the more fruitful direction would be to get people to open up their minds, even if only for a little bit. If you can do that much, then you stand a fair chance of getting people thinking about different stuff.

 

The Demon Haunted World” is a good book but depending on your specific audience, you might want to keep that one in reserve for later. I would start with some works that popularize science while essentially ignoring religion. Isaac Asimov wrote quite a few in his day and he was a very careful author who kept what is already known to be correct in mind, so what he wrote decades ago is “still true” today (it was already known to be true when he was writing it, so new knowledge only adds to his work).

 

Michael Shermer is another very good author. Start with his book “Why People Believe Weird Things”. Each chapter takes on a different belief that some people hold to despite it being quite deplorable. UFO abductions, Holocaust Denial and the Philosophy of Ayn Rand come to mind. As it was written for an American audience, it holds nothing really critical of Moslem thoughts specifically but it is a good case for leaving religion in general behind.

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I would suggest Carl Sagan's

I would suggest Carl Sagan's Demon Haunted World.


Wonderist
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Oops, since apparently

Oops, since apparently *everyone* has already recommended Demon Haunted World, I'll recommend something a little more controversial.

Since your audience are Muslims, and since you wanted something that critiques all of religion specifically, I would suggest The End of Faith, by Sam Harris. This book is the one that, as far as I can tell, opened the flood-gates of the 'new atheist' (I hate that term) best-seller books. Harris makes the convincing case that it is faith itself which is the enemy of reasonable discourse.

Now, some (especially religious) might find Harris offensive, but he is really not. He is just very frank, and he does not soften up his language when he critiques religion. He also makes the case that religion gets some sort of 'special privilege' that nobody is allowed to criticize it, and that we must stand up and openly criticize it directly, rather than 'respecting' its undeserved special privilege.

Also, he makes the strong case that moderate religious people are a big part of the problem because they do not distinguish their 'faith' from the extremists' 'faith', and so they provide cover for the extremists when they should be standing up and criticizing the extremists as well.

Overall, Sam Harris makes the strongest case for atheist activism out of all the major books recently. His arguments were borrowed pretty much directly by Dawkins and to some extent Hitchens. Dennett's book Breaking the Spell came out a little earlier (if I'm not mistaken), but did not cause such a stir as Harris' book did.

Another recommendation along these lines is Ayaan Hirsi Ali's book Infidel, which is her tale of escape from Islam, and the persecution she suffered. I haven't read it, but I've seen her interviewed, and I'm sure it would be an excellent book against Islam.

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godisgoneonhoneymoon
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mrjonno wrote:Not convinced

mrjonno wrote:

Not convinced trying to spread secularism in a totally 3rd world zero infrastructure poverty ridden war ridden country is at this time really worthwhile. Far better to work on Pakistan which does have a secular movement  (even if its struggling) and has a functioning economy that is linked to the rest of the world. Once that is properly secular then iits influence be used on Afghanistan

 

 

If the problem was in your country, would you wait for your neighbor to improve herself and then help you? That also a neighbor like pakistan who is mostly responsible for all the destruction in your country? You are right that it is difficult to work in afghanistan. But to bring a secular system in pakistan is even more tougher than here. Here we didnt have all these fundamentals, it came mostly from there. 

 

Religion makes me suffer everyday!


godisgoneonhoneymoon
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Quote:  I don't really know

Quote:

 

I don't really know what things are like in Afghanistan but assuming that there are certain similarities to what is going on in this part of the world, that stuff probably will not be a huge help. After all, the potential audience for such work is probably already on board with the agenda. Those people who are not will probably not want to read such material.

 

 

 Well to tell you more about afghanistan i have to say that it

wasnt like this. I wont have tall claims, but it was much muchbetter than what it is right now. People were not that serious about religion. but slowly slowly pakistani madrasas producedelements that are very strange. You may know nowadays it is notpossible to talk anti-religious in afghanistan at all. it caneven take your life. Its not that they are trully religious.Those bustards do any kind of unhuman thing but if you talkabout religion, you have commited the biggest sin in the world. And i wasnt asking books exactly to convince people or start acompaign. you all may not have any idea what kind of people themadrasas have produeced for us. so it is dangerous. But doing something to help people even if it is small, is better than doingnothing. Ok let me tell you an incedent which might be interesting for some.I was sitting in a religious studies class at school. I thinkit 5th grade.teacher was saying everything is created by god.suddenly without thinking i asked and who created the god?and directly after saying this i got a nice slap. That was anincedent that changed me from very early. there i understoodwhat ever this religion might be, but it doesnt let you to ask anything. anyway thanks for the information

 

Religion makes me suffer everyday!


mrjonno
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godisgoneonhoneymoon

godisgoneonhoneymoon wrote:

mrjonno wrote:

Not convinced trying to spread secularism in a totally 3rd world zero infrastructure poverty ridden war ridden country is at this time really worthwhile. Far better to work on Pakistan which does have a secular movement  (even if its struggling) and has a functioning economy that is linked to the rest of the world. Once that is properly secular then iits influence be used on Afghanistan

 

 

If the problem was in your country, would you wait for your neighbor to improve herself and then help you? That also a neighbor like pakistan who is mostly responsible for all the destruction in your country? You are right that it is difficult to work in afghanistan. But to bring a secular system in pakistan is even more tougher than here. Here we didnt have all these fundamentals, it came mostly from there. 

 

 

Well I guess I'm not big on patriotism and fighting (at least at the moment) hopeless battles. I honestly wish you luck and if you really think you can make a difference (as opposed to just blind 'faith') then go for it.

The world does need heroes but only ones who don't get themselves killed without achieveing anything useful