What happened to all the Theists?

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What happened to all the Theists?

Back when ID was popular, Kansas was being besieged and the Right Wing was in power, we seemed to have no end of the arrogant bastards.

 

Now, it's the just odd troll that posts and runs.

 

Is Xinanity on the decline, or have they decided they can't win and so they run to the safe houses?

 

Also, where are the new Xian apologists? WL Craig is old-hat now and has been rebutted ad nauseum and there are only a few hangers-on of the Y.E. Creationist school.

 

It seems the strongest Xian apologists are the more Liberal Xians - you know, the ones that basically gut Xinanity of the important stuff and fill it in with New Age woo woo.

 

Any thoughts?

Imagine the people who believe such things and who are not ashamed to ignore, totally, all the patient findings of thinking minds through all the centuries since the Bible was written. And it is these ignorant people, the most uneducated, the most unimaginative, the most unthinking among us, who would make themselves the guides and leaders of us all; who would force their feeble and childish beliefs on us; who would invade our schools and libraries and homes. I personally resent it bitterly.
Isaac Asimov


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nigelTheBold

nigelTheBold wrote:

mig_killer2 wrote:

the fact that you think you can draw an inference to the status of the world at large from the calibre of theists who post here on the Rational Response Squad forum frighten's me TBH. The reason so few Theists post here is because they either A: Have not actually done their homework on the subject of natural theology or New Testament studies and for some strange reason are compelled by the "arguments" of your lot, or B: you (the general population of this forum) are extremely insensitive, profane, blasphemous, and have massive emotional axes to grind against religion. Not all of us are willing to tolerate this sort of BS.

Good God. I just finished fucking my blow-up Jesus doll through His stigmata ("Authentic Bleeding Action!" ) I was "arguing" with him the whole time ("Who's real now, Bitch?!" ), until I kinda broke Him at the seam. Now I've gotta get some Krazy Glue or something to patch him up.

I'm kinda wasted right now, but I thought I'd say: I'm really fuckin' enjoying life. I know this is the only one I've got, and by Grapthar's Hammer, I'm gonna enjoy the fuck out of it. 'Cause when you're dead, you're fuckin' dead. No do-overs (take that, reincarnationist Buddhists!), no afterlife (which is not like afterbirth, as I've discovered, much to my chagrin), and no heaven nor hell.

Religion can piss off. I've no axe to grind, no anger, no real enmity. There are some Christians I rather loathe (yeah, I'm looking at you, Pat Boone), but there are some Christians of whom I am very fond. So it all works out in the wash, except the whites keep coming out pink, thanks to that Realistic Blood of the Lamb.

Aaaanyway, I just thought I'd say, if Christians can't take a little bit of mockery, then they should stop talking fucking smack about atheists. Because we're smarter, we're more directed, and we don't get all passive-aggressive. We go straight for "aggressive."

Oh, and Jesus is a pussy. Thor'd kick his ass in a barfight, and Loki'd curb-stomp him in a spelling bee.

self-refuting tirades FTW?

"If you can make any religion of the world look ridiculous, chances are you haven't understood it"-Ravi Zacharias


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mig_killer2

mig_killer2 wrote:

nigelTheBold wrote:

<Rambling drunken nonsense snipped>

self-refuting tirades FTW?

Well, I don't know if it's for the win, exactly. And I'm not sure it was coherent enough to be self-refuting. Methinks you give it way too much credit.

(insert smiley here)

"Yes, I seriously believe that consciousness is a product of a natural process. I find that the neuroscientists, psychologists, and philosophers who proceed from that premise are the ones who are actually making useful contributions to our understanding of the mind." - PZ Myers


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Ciarin wrote:For many

Ciarin wrote:

For many heathens, the tradition that we are trying to reestablish is the funeral pyre. A lawyer(who happens to be Asatru) has determined that we can legally have a funeral pyre, we'd have to get certain permits though. Also, some heathens(who can afford it I guess), would like their funeral pyre to be on a ship which is more traditional. I don't know if that can be done legally though, at least in the US.

That sounds awesome! I'm in. I want everyone to stand around and smell me cookin' while huge loudspeakers boom AC/DC's "Highway to Hell" and there should be fireworks or perhaps a high speed pass by fighter jets. And we're going to need a case of booze. Something strong and cheap so people will remember me the next day while puking their guts out.

 

Ciarin wrote:

From wikipedia:

"Lightning is an atmospheric discharge of electricity, which typically occurs during thunderstorms, and sometimes during volcanic eruptions or dust storms."

There are several hypotheses on how lightning forms. One is polarization mechanism hypothesis, another is electrostatic inducition hypothesis.

Lightning comes from any electrical field that is strong enough to discharge.

Yeah, but we all know that the electrical field that is strong enough to discharge started with Mjolnir. I should probably go fix wikipedia and write my will to include that kickass funeral pyre idea. It sure beats my first plan of being devoured by grizzly bears. (Which is still pretty kick-ass if I do say so myself)


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ThorLovesYou wrote:That

ThorLovesYou wrote:

That sounds awesome! I'm in. I want everyone to stand around and smell me cookin' while huge loudspeakers boom AC/DC's "Highway to Hell" and there should be fireworks or perhaps a high speed pass by fighter jets. And we're going to need a case of booze. Something strong and cheap so people will remember me the next day while puking their guts out.

 And maybe some Tyr, Amon Amarth, and a little Led Zeppelin.

Quote:

Yeah, but we all know that the electrical field that is strong enough to discharge started with Mjolnir. I should probably go fix wikipedia and write my will to include that kickass funeral pyre idea. It sure beats my first plan of being devoured by grizzly bears. (Which is still pretty kick-ass if I do say so myself)

 

Lightning didn't originate with Mjolnir, show me where in the lore you found that.


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Ciarin wrote:butterbattle

Ciarin wrote:

butterbattle wrote:

What happens after we die?

I don't know what happens after you die. Unless you have a will stating otherwise, you could be buried, cremated, etc. For many heathens, the tradition that we are trying to reestablish is the funeral pyre. A lawyer(who happens to be Asatru) has determined that we can legally have a funeral pyre, we'd have to get certain permits though. Also, some heathens(who can afford it I guess), would like their funeral pyre to be on a ship which is more traditional. I don't know if that can be done legally though, at least in the US.

But since modern heathenry is so new, I don't think anyone has done the funeral pyre yet. So mostly I think we just get buried or cremated.

Quote:

What is lightning, how is it produced, and where does it come from?

From wikipedia:

"Lightning is an atmospheric discharge of electricity, which typically occurs during thunderstorms, and sometimes during volcanic eruptions or dust storms."

There are several hypotheses on how lightning forms. One is polarization mechanism hypothesis, another is electrostatic inducition hypothesis.

Lightning comes from any electrical field that is strong enough to discharge.

Well, that's strange......................

Do you really believe in those Gods or is it more like a Star Trek type obsession? 

 

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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butterbattle wrote:Well,

butterbattle wrote:

Well, that's strange......................

Do you really believe in those Gods or is it more like a Star Trek type obsession? 

 

 

It's strange that you think it's strange. I did pay attention in science class. Being polytheist doesn't mean I disregard scientific evidence.

 

Yes, I really believe in those gods. Not as metaphors ro arcehtypes, but actual sentient beings.


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Ciarin wrote:It's strange

Ciarin wrote:

It's strange that you think it's strange. I did pay attention in science class. Being polytheist doesn't mean I disregard scientific evidence.

Yes, I really believe in those gods. Not as metaphors ro arcehtypes, but actual sentient beings.

Just a question from idle curiousity: have you read Gaiman's American Gods? If so, what did you think of it?

"Yes, I seriously believe that consciousness is a product of a natural process. I find that the neuroscientists, psychologists, and philosophers who proceed from that premise are the ones who are actually making useful contributions to our understanding of the mind." - PZ Myers


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nigelTheBold wrote:Just a

nigelTheBold wrote:

Just a question from idle curiousity: have you read Gaiman's American Gods? If so, what did you think of it?

 

No but I've heard f it. Have you read it?


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Ciarin wrote:nigelTheBold

Ciarin wrote:

nigelTheBold wrote:

Just a question from idle curiousity: have you read Gaiman's American Gods? If so, what did you think of it?

No but I've heard f it. Have you read it?

I've read it, and loved it. Considering that two characters are Mr. Wednesday and Low-Key Smith, I thought you might've read it.

It's an excellent book, one of the best modern fantasies around.

But then, I'd recommend anything by Neil Gaiman.  Hell, I'd have his children.

"Yes, I seriously believe that consciousness is a product of a natural process. I find that the neuroscientists, psychologists, and philosophers who proceed from that premise are the ones who are actually making useful contributions to our understanding of the mind." - PZ Myers


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It's been a long while since

It's been a long while since I read any fiction. I mostly just read reference books and the like.


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 ID no longer popular? Have

 ID no longer popular? Have you lost your mind? This is the science of the 21st century. Evolution is dying and being replaced.

 

Christianity on the decline? Are you mad? Chistianity is growing in droves all over the world; the middle east, Korea, China, Russia (2 1/2 churches being built every day in Russia. A miracle after Communisn fell).


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Incognito wrote:ID no longer

Incognito wrote:

ID no longer popular? Have you lost your mind? This is the science of the 21st century.

The "science of the 21st century?" What, you mean science isn't going to be scientific any more?

Quote:

Evolution is dying and being replaced.

Poe! I call Poe!

I mean, I know you're completely serious, but this is just fuckin' ludicrous. Evolution is dying in the same way that gravity is dying. That is, it's not.

"Intelligent Design" has no science behind it. None. At all. Just because a group of folks want to get rid of science and naturalism (which they call "materialism," seemingly to conflate it with consumerism) and replace it with woo-woo doesn't mean it's scientific.

If it is, name one testable prediction made by intelligent design. And, for bonus points, name one unknown issue that intelligent design answers better than the theory of evolution through natural selection without raising more issues.

Finally, for an extra 10 points, describe an instance of observed parapatric speciation, with special note of observed affects of intelligent influence.

Quote:

Christianity on the decline? Are you mad? Chistianity is growing in droves all over the world; the middle east, Korea, China, Russia (2 1/2 churches being built every day in Russia. A miracle after Communisn fell).

Now, who would want to go to only 1/2 a church?

"Yes, I seriously believe that consciousness is a product of a natural process. I find that the neuroscientists, psychologists, and philosophers who proceed from that premise are the ones who are actually making useful contributions to our understanding of the mind." - PZ Myers


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Could the half-church be

Could the half-church be that one the people dismantled for the rocks and wood?


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Ciarin wrote:daedalus

Ciarin wrote:

daedalus wrote:

How does someone become a Theist without a religious text?

 

I don't know, maybe they're deist?

The religious texts we use are the eddas, bede's writings, and the sagas.

i don't think those are religious texts.  although, I suppose you could look at them that way.  i suppose one could consider the Dictionary or Bible a religious text, too....  (My slip may be showing - I don't believe in gods, therefore there is no such thing as a religious text - only mythological tales that are treated with varying degrees of reverence or veracity.)

 

BTW, wasn't Bede a Catholic?

 

But, let's say that they are religious text by the fact that they are considered to be by various people.  What do they convey?  (Don't get me wrong - I've read some of the eddas and snorri's writings).  What I mean is: what do they convey that isn't something Earthly?  Or, is that not your contention?

 

often, the gods are attributed with something in this world: words or wisdom, warnings; or Good or evil events.

 

while I appreciate a good laugh, and personal religions, I just wonder if you can tell me why I might want to believe as you do?  Is there a reason you believe it, and would that reason convince me?

 

I.e., what do you believe, why and should I care?

 

Imagine the people who believe such things and who are not ashamed to ignore, totally, all the patient findings of thinking minds through all the centuries since the Bible was written. And it is these ignorant people, the most uneducated, the most unimaginative, the most unthinking among us, who would make themselves the guides and leaders of us all; who would force their feeble and childish beliefs on us; who would invade our schools and libraries and homes. I personally resent it bitterly.
Isaac Asimov


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Incognito wrote: ID no

Incognito wrote:

 ID no longer popular? Have you lost your mind? This is the science of the 21st century. Evolution is dying and being replaced.

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHWHHWWMWMWHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHA!!


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Ciarin wrote:Incognito

Ciarin wrote:

Incognito wrote:

 ID no longer popular? Have you lost your mind? This is the science of the 21st century. Evolution is dying and being replaced.

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHWHHWWMWMWHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHA!!

What Ciarin said!:

HAHAHAHAHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHHMMMWMWMWMWMWMJMSHAHAHWHAHAHAHWHWHAAH!!!!!!!!

Imagine the people who believe such things and who are not ashamed to ignore, totally, all the patient findings of thinking minds through all the centuries since the Bible was written. And it is these ignorant people, the most uneducated, the most unimaginative, the most unthinking among us, who would make themselves the guides and leaders of us all; who would force their feeble and childish beliefs on us; who would invade our schools and libraries and homes. I personally resent it bitterly.
Isaac Asimov


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daedalus wrote:Ciarin

daedalus wrote:

Ciarin wrote:

daedalus wrote:

How does someone become a Theist without a religious text?

 

I don't know, maybe they're deist?

The religious texts we use are the eddas, bede's writings, and the sagas.

i don't think those are religious texts.  although, I suppose you could look at them that way.  i suppose one could consider the Dictionary or Bible a religious text, too....  (My slip may be showing - I don't believe in gods, therefore there is no such thing as a religious text - only mythological tales that are treated with varying degrees of reverence or veracity.)

 

I guess you think of religious text differently than I do. To me, a religious text is a text about a religion. We don't consider them to be the word of the gods.

 

Quote:

BTW, wasn't Bede a Catholic?

 

Yep, and so was Snorri Sturluson.

Quote:

But, let's say that they are religious text by the fact that they are considered to be by various people.  What do they convey?  (Don't get me wrong - I've read some of the eddas and snorri's writings).  What I mean is: what do they convey that isn't something Earthly?  Or, is that not your contention?

It gives us an idea of the beliefs of the ancient Northern European Peoples. Before christians wrote down the sagas and Eddas, it was passed down as an oral tradition. If historians like Snorri and Bede hadn't written them down, I'm pretty sure we have almost no idea what they believed back then and the religion would be lost.

 

Quote:

often, the gods are attributed with something in this world: words or wisdom, warnings; or Good or evil events.

 

while I appreciate a good laugh, and personal religions, I just wonder if you can tell me why I might want to believe as you do?  Is there a reason you believe it, and would that reason convince me?

 You might want to believe if you have an interest in your heritage, and you wish to honor the gods of your ancestors before christianity came along(if your ancestors believed in the Germanic Gods). Or maybe you just like the sagas and eddas.  Since I don't know you, I don't know what reason would convince you.

Quote:

I.e., what do you believe, why and should I care?

I believe you should care about whatever interests you. I don't know you so how am I supposed to know why you should care about something?


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Ciarin wrote:butterbattle

Ciarin wrote:

butterbattle wrote:

What happens after we die?

I don't know what happens after you die. Unless you have a will stating otherwise, you could be buried, cremated, etc. For many heathens, the tradition that we are trying to reestablish is the funeral pyre. A lawyer(who happens to be Asatru) has determined that we can legally have a funeral pyre, we'd have to get certain permits though. Also, some heathens(who can afford it I guess), would like their funeral pyre to be on a ship which is more traditional. I don't know if that can be done legally though, at least in the US.

But since modern heathenry is so new, I don't think anyone has done the funeral pyre yet. So mostly I think we just get buried or cremated.

Quote:

What is lightning, how is it produced, and where does it come from?

From wikipedia:

"Lightning is an atmospheric discharge of electricity, which typically occurs during thunderstorms, and sometimes during volcanic eruptions or dust storms."

There are several hypotheses on how lightning forms. One is polarization mechanism hypothesis, another is electrostatic inducition hypothesis.

Lightning comes from any electrical field that is strong enough to discharge.

I like you. Yer witty. Smiling

"You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons." - The Waco Kid


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nigelTheBold wrote:Low-Key

nigelTheBold wrote:


Low-Key Smith

Low-Key Lyesmith, I thought.


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BMcD wrote:nigelTheBold

BMcD wrote:

nigelTheBold wrote:

Low-Key Smith

Low-Key Lyesmith, I thought.

Would you stop correcting me?

You are right. It was Low-Key Lyesmith. *sigh*

 

[Edit: addendum] I suck with proper nouns. They hate me, and so I keep a respectful distance.

"Yes, I seriously believe that consciousness is a product of a natural process. I find that the neuroscientists, psychologists, and philosophers who proceed from that premise are the ones who are actually making useful contributions to our understanding of the mind." - PZ Myers


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nigelTheBold wrote:Would you

nigelTheBold wrote:

Would you stop correcting me?

You are right. It was Low-Key Lyesmith. *sigh*

 

[Edit: addendum] I suck with proper nouns. They hate me, and so I keep a respectful distance.

LOL.

I so needed that laugh. Thank you, Nigel. This afternoon, you are a veritable Tim Conrad. Eye-wink

"You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons." - The Waco Kid


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As per the original

As per the original question...

Maybe they got raptured?


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Ciarin wrote:daedalus

Ciarin wrote:

daedalus wrote:

Ciarin wrote:

daedalus wrote:

How does someone become a Theist without a religious text?

 

I don't know, maybe they're deist?

The religious texts we use are the eddas, bede's writings, and the sagas.

i don't think those are religious texts.  although, I suppose you could look at them that way.  i suppose one could consider the Dictionary or Bible a religious text, too....  (My slip may be showing - I don't believe in gods, therefore there is no such thing as a religious text - only mythological tales that are treated with varying degrees of reverence or veracity.)

 

I guess you think of religious text differently than I do. To me, a religious text is a text about a religion. We don't consider them to be the word of the gods.

 

Quote:

BTW, wasn't Bede a Catholic?

 

Yep, and so was Snorri Sturluson.

Quote:

But, let's say that they are religious text by the fact that they are considered to be by various people.  What do they convey?  (Don't get me wrong - I've read some of the eddas and snorri's writings).  What I mean is: what do they convey that isn't something Earthly?  Or, is that not your contention?

It gives us an idea of the beliefs of the ancient Northern European Peoples. Before christians wrote down the sagas and Eddas, it was passed down as an oral tradition. If historians like Snorri and Bede hadn't written them down, I'm pretty sure we have almost no idea what they believed back then and the religion would be lost.

 

Quote:

often, the gods are attributed with something in this world: words or wisdom, warnings; or Good or evil events.

 

while I appreciate a good laugh, and personal religions, I just wonder if you can tell me why I might want to believe as you do?  Is there a reason you believe it, and would that reason convince me?

 You might want to believe if you have an interest in your heritage, and you wish to honor the gods of your ancestors before christianity came along(if your ancestors believed in the Germanic Gods). Or maybe you just like the sagas and eddas.  Since I don't know you, I don't know what reason would convince you.

Quote:

I.e., what do you believe, why and should I care?

I believe you should care about whatever interests you. I don't know you so how am I supposed to know why you should care about something?

 

well, you see hwere I'm going with this.

 

I would like to believe in gods and gain favor from them.  Can you help me?

Imagine the people who believe such things and who are not ashamed to ignore, totally, all the patient findings of thinking minds through all the centuries since the Bible was written. And it is these ignorant people, the most uneducated, the most unimaginative, the most unthinking among us, who would make themselves the guides and leaders of us all; who would force their feeble and childish beliefs on us; who would invade our schools and libraries and homes. I personally resent it bitterly.
Isaac Asimov


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BMcD wrote:LOL.I so needed

BMcD wrote:

LOL.

I so needed that laugh. Thank you, Nigel. This afternoon, you are a veritable Tim Conrad. Eye-wink

Thanks.

I just snorted Mug Root Beer out my snout.

"Yes, I seriously believe that consciousness is a product of a natural process. I find that the neuroscientists, psychologists, and philosophers who proceed from that premise are the ones who are actually making useful contributions to our understanding of the mind." - PZ Myers


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MattShizzle wrote:As per the

MattShizzle wrote:

As per the original question...

Maybe they got raptured?

I think we're seeing more show up. There's been some theists seriously getting their ignorance on recently. Even though we seem to have lost... uhm, whatsisface. The "QM is God" guy.

Stupid proper nouns.

 

[Edit addendum] Paisley! That's who I was thinking of. Paisley.

"Yes, I seriously believe that consciousness is a product of a natural process. I find that the neuroscientists, psychologists, and philosophers who proceed from that premise are the ones who are actually making useful contributions to our understanding of the mind." - PZ Myers


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daedalus wrote: well, you

daedalus wrote:

 

well, you see hwere I'm going with this.

 

I would like to believe in gods and gain favor from them.  Can you help me?

Is there a reason why you'd like to believe? Convince me why I should help you.


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Ciarin wrote:butterbattle

Ciarin wrote:

butterbattle wrote:

Well, that's strange......................

Do you really believe in those Gods or is it more like a Star Trek type obsession? 

It's strange that you think it's strange. I did pay attention in science class. Being polytheist doesn't mean I disregard scientific evidence.

Yes, I really believe in those gods. Not as metaphors ro arcehtypes, but actual sentient beings.

Ha, now I'm even more curious, especially because you think it's strange that I thought it was strange. 

Perhaps you've already reached this conclusion, but the average theist that parades into this forum is not exactly the brightest bulb in the chandelier or the sharpest pencil in the box. Furthermore, my previous experiences in dealing with this subject has led me to identify a pretty strong correlation between how retarded an individual is vs. how retarded their beliefs are. So, no offense, but when you informed us that you believed in a slew of pagan Gods, I was expecting a pretty f***ed up individual. Yet, thus far, I feel that all of your posts have demonstrated remarkable social perceptiveness and clarity of thought.  

That, to me, is strange. 

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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nigelTheBold wrote:Good God.

nigelTheBold wrote:

Good God. I just finished fucking my blow-up Jesus doll through His stigmata ("Authentic Bleeding Action!" ) I was "arguing" with him the whole time ("Who's real now, Bitch?!" ), until I kinda broke Him at the seam. Now I've gotta get some Krazy Glue or something to patch him up.

I'm kinda wasted right now, but I thought I'd say: I'm really fuckin' enjoying life. I know this is the only one I've got, and by Grapthar's Hammer, I'm gonna enjoy the fuck out of it. 'Cause when you're dead, you're fuckin' dead. No do-overs (take that, reincarnationist Buddhists!), no afterlife (which is not like afterbirth, as I've discovered, much to my chagrin), and no heaven nor hell.

Religion can piss off. I've no axe to grind, no anger, no real enmity. There are some Christians I rather loathe (yeah, I'm looking at you, Pat Boone), but there are some Christians of whom I am very fond. So it all works out in the wash, except the whites keep coming out pink, thanks to that Realistic Blood of the Lamb.

Aaaanyway, I just thought I'd say, if Christians can't take a little bit of mockery, then they should stop talking fucking smack about atheists. Because we're smarter, we're more directed, and we don't get all passive-aggressive. We go straight for "aggressive."

Oh, and Jesus is a pussy. Thor'd kick his ass in a barfight, and Loki'd curb-stomp him in a spelling bee.

I think the above might be the most perfect drunken post of all time. Are there awards? Can I nominate Nigel for some kind of Internet Awesomeness award? In the drunken category, I mean.

Saint Will: no gyration without funkstification.
fabulae! nil satis firmi video quam ob rem accipere hunc mi expediat metum. - Terence