Hypnosis and ignorant teachers

pyrokidd
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Hypnosis and ignorant teachers

Hey everybody. I haven't posted much of anything lately because of how busy I've been at school, but now I think I need some help.

I'm taking a psychology class and the teacher doesn't seem to know what she's talking about. She got her degree in history but psychology is grouped with social studies classes so the school decided she was qualified to teach about psych as well. And I seem to have done more research than she has.

Now we're learning about altered states of consciousness and she's going on and on about hypnosis. Can someone tell me about what it really is? I know people can achieve altered consciousness through it, but what about all this repressed memory crap? I seem to remember some religious fanatics thinking they all had repressed  some memories about being abused in a satanic cult as children. But they all somehow brought it out through hypnosis. The same technique is used to help people "remember" alien abduction. So it seems like lots of bullshit to me, but then I'm no expert on hypnosis. Does anyone know some actual facts about it?

But the main question is, how do I confront a teacher who I think is wrong about something? For intance, as part of a class I thought would deal with strictly science, she gave us a whole special lesson on ESP. I personally thought pretty much every medium, psychic, telepathic, and clairvoyant out there was full of crap but the teacher teaches it as fact to a class that people have these abilities. This is just one of many things she has taught the class that I'm pretty sure is false. How do I let my fellow students know the authority figure actually doesn't know what she's saying?

"We are the star things harvesting the star energy"
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I've had several instances

I've had several instances where teachers tried to foist ideas on me and my classmates that I knew were wrong. I'll confess I never found a good way of handling the situation. Usually I just say, "No, you're wrong." Point out the right answer, and try to defend myself as best I can. The first time this happened that I can remember was when I was 8 and the teacher tried to tell us that hot water freezes faster than cold water. You wouldn't believe how many people believe this. It's a common urban legend, but man, how ridiculous that an 8 year old has to set an adult straight on that!

Ever since that age, I've held a pretty skeptical stance of the education system, and clashed with authority on other occasions.

To answer your questions, the repressed memory hypnosis thing is complete crap.

Hypnosis is a state of mind where you are simultaneously focused/aware and imaginative/suggestible. There is really nothing magical, or mystical, or bizarre about it. We enter into hypnosis quite often on our own. Many people hypnotize themselves while watching TV or driving a car.

I tend to relate hypnosis with a daydreaming kind of state.

It is possible to use this state of mind for therapeutic effects, since the mind is malleable and what can be imagined can easily become mixed up with actual memories. Unfortunately, this same technique can be used to plant false memories via suggestion. Very often, the person guiding the hypnosis is not even aware that they are influencing the person under hypnosis. Suggestion is very often subconscious both to the suggestor and suggestee.

Look up 'false memories' on google and you should find some stuff on it. Essentially, the ideas of satanic rituals and alien abductions are implanted by an 'expert' who has been brought in to figure out the source of some distress (likely depression or anxiety). This 'expert' has a subconscious agenda to find more 'victims' of alien abduction (or whatever their 'specialty' is). They ask leading questions, and over a few sessions they are able to get the person to 'uncover' a 'repressed' memory.

Repression is a real psychological defense, however not to the extent that it can completely hide a memory. Repression is usually more along the lines of avoiding certain thoughts or memories because they are too traumatic or painful. You are aware that you have the memory, but you avoid thinking about it. It can fade to the background, but it never disappears completely. The 'repressed' memories uncovered by hypnosis are really invented, false memories, made up by a combination of suggestion and the patient's imagination.

If your school or public library has a subscription to Scientific American Mind, there was an issue a few months ago that dealt with this topic. You might want to go to a library and look it up.

ESP is also complete crap, as you seem aware. The issue is how to deal with the teacher. If the teacher is open-minded, you may want to talk to them after class and express your concerns. She may get offended. In which case, you may have to go to the principal. What you should tell the principle is that the teacher is teaching non-scientific stuff in a science class. Psychology is technically a science and follows the scientific method. There is no scientific basis for any of that stuff, and (if you do your research ahead of time) you can prove it. Therefore, tell the principal that you only want to learn about science in science class, and that you would like the teacher to stop teaching her superstitions as fact.

If the teacher is open-minded and you don't want to go to the principal, then one option might be to do a project for extra credit on this topic. You could do some research (it's not hard to find good material if you have a good library and/or know the right websites to visit), and put together a short presentation of what you found. Present it to the class as an alternative viewpoint to what they've been 'learning' in class.

Or you could do what I did and just tell her to her face in front of the entire class, "No, you're wrong!" Eye-wink

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She's an idiot.

She's an idiot. Psychological studies have debunked those ideas to the point they no longer study them.

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pyrokidd wrote:I'm

pyrokidd wrote:
I'm taking a psychology class and the teacher doesn't seem to know what she's talking about.

You have a psych teacher who does not know what she is talking about? Dear god noooo!!! We shall have to alert CNN immediately! On a more serious note, she is being required to teach outside of her main field, so she has to go on the strength of her teaching ability by itself. I will go out on a limb here and assume that she is qualified to teach in general, just not this particular subject.

A related question for you is to look at your syllabus and your current standing in the class and ask yourself just how important it is to get the remaining few weeks of class done to her standard. If you already have a good grade locked in, then you deal with this one way, if need the next few weeks to get a good grade, then you deal with this another way. Alternatively, if you can't get a good grade no matter what, then consider what happens to you if you throw the class and try for an incomplete.

As far as the question of hypnosis goes, it is real but with so many provisions that it is not something that you can say much that is unquestionable about the matter. For example, there are a great many people who simply cannot be hypnotized for whatever reason.

On the other hand, there are hypnotists who hire out for parties and they can make people do things that are just nuts. I once saw one convince two dudes that they were each sitting next to a hot and horny model. They both began to paw away at each other like they needed to go to a motel. Then the hypnotist woke them both up suddenly. When they both realized that they were going at it with another guy, the results were fully comedic.

Past lives? Yah, people will talk about them. Try proving that what they are on about is real and can be connected to some real dead guy. Heck but (as with implanted memories) it is not all that hard to get someone to talk about future lives. In that you can't connect a past life regression to a real dead guy, I fail to see how you are going to connect a future life to anyone not yet born but it is fairly easy to make happen.

natural wrote:
I've had several instances where teachers tried to foist ideas on me and my classmates that I knew were wrong. I'll confess I never found a good way of handling the situation. Usually I just say, "No, you're wrong." Point out the right answer, and try to defend myself as best I can. The first time this happened that I can remember was when I was 8 and the teacher tried to tell us that hot water freezes faster than cold water. You wouldn't believe how many people believe this. It's a common urban legend, but man, how ridiculous that an 8 year old has to set an adult straight on that!

OK, I know someone who should google the "Mpemba effect". Hot water does freeze faster than cold water and the matter has been verified in controlled laboratory setting over and over.

 

 

NoMoreCrazyPeople wrote:
Never ever did I say enything about free, I said "free."

=


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Quote:On the other hand,

Quote:
On the other hand, there are hypnotists who hire out for parties and they can make people do things that are just nuts. I once saw one convince two dudes that they were each sitting next to a hot and horny model. They both began to paw away at each other like they needed to go to a motel. Then the hypnotist woke them both up suddenly. When they both realized that they were going at it with another guy, the results were fully comedic.

*Sigh*

This is not hypnosis. This is talking to the guest(s) beforehand, slipping them a few bucks, and telling them to play along.

 

Party 'hypnotists' are just magicians/illusionists.

 

Quote:
"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940


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 DISCLAIMER:  I am only

 DISCLAIMER:  I am only slightly qualified to answer this question.  Trust my answer at your own risk.

I don't know an awful lot about the neuroscience of hypnosis, so I won't try to address it.  I do know that hypnosis isn't magic.  You can't "program" someone to be an unwitting assassin.  There have been lots of studies that seem to indicate that hypnosis can aid memory, although there is serious doubt about uncovering "hidden childhood memories."  What it can do is help you remember the list of groceries you read twenty minutes ago.

Honestly, I don't really know where meditation ends and hypnosis begins, and I'm not sure anyone else does either.  It seems to me that a lot of hypnosis might well be placebo.  That is, someone wants to quit smoking, so they go to a hypnotherapist.  They really do acheive a state of relaxation which makes them believe the treatment is working which tends to make it work.

Susac mentioned hypnotic induction in another thread, and I think there's certainly something to this.  Rather than tapping into the unconscious, hypnosis seems to be a state of conscious focusing.  For whatever reason, some people are more susceptible to suggestion in this state.  There are a lot of elements of hypnosis in religious services, which lends some credence to the idea that preachers really do hypnotize and brainwash some of the faithful.

Oh, and then there's NLP, or neuro-linguistic-programming, which is probably mostly BS.  Although it's certainly possible for magicians to "program" their audience to see what they want, it's not possible to secretly program women to become uncontrollably horny.  NLP is just a little bit of hypnosis combined with smarminess.  Lots of women go home with smarmy men anyway.

ESP and all that other shit is nothing but bullshit.

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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Well, hypnosis is basically

Well, hypnosis is basically luring someone into a trance state where they are hyper-focused but very relaxed. It's nothing involving magic, voodoo or "past lives", it's just a way "into the subconscious" if you will. Some people think it's total bullshit, but I've had hypnotherapy and it helped me feel much better. All that's done is someone gets you relaxed and gives your min suggestions, and you choose to accept the suggestions. It can't make you hallucinate, do things against your will, etc. THAT version of hypnosis is bunk.

*Our world is far more complex than the rigid structure we want to assign to it, and we will probably never fully understand it.*

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Kevin R Brown wrote:Quote:On

Kevin R Brown wrote:

Quote:
On the other hand, there are hypnotists who hire out for parties and they can make people do things that are just nuts. I once saw one convince two dudes that they were each sitting next to a hot and horny model. They both began to paw away at each other like they needed to go to a motel. Then the hypnotist woke them both up suddenly. When they both realized that they were going at it with another guy, the results were fully comedic.

*Sigh*

This is not hypnosis. This is talking to the guest(s) beforehand, slipping them a few bucks, and telling them to play along.

 

Party 'hypnotists' are just magicians/illusionists.

 

Yeah, they definitely slip all 30 college students who volunteer a few bucks right in front of the audience.

You are right about the fact that it's playing along, but not everyone CAN play along. I've seen "party hypnosis" on more than one occasion, and some people don't respond to it. They are hypnotized, but they CHOOSE to relax and go into that hyper-focused state.

*Our world is far more complex than the rigid structure we want to assign to it, and we will probably never fully understand it.*

"Those believers who are sophisticated enough to understand the paradox have found exciting ways to bend logic into pretzel shapes in order to defend the indefensible." - Hamby


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Answers in Gene Simmons

Answers in Gene Simmons wrote:

natural wrote:
I've had several instances where teachers tried to foist ideas on me and my classmates that I knew were wrong. I'll confess I never found a good way of handling the situation. Usually I just say, "No, you're wrong." Point out the right answer, and try to defend myself as best I can. The first time this happened that I can remember was when I was 8 and the teacher tried to tell us that hot water freezes faster than cold water. You wouldn't believe how many people believe this. It's a common urban legend, but man, how ridiculous that an 8 year old has to set an adult straight on that!

OK, I know someone who should google the "Mpemba effect". Hot water does freeze faster than cold water and the matter has been verified in controlled laboratory setting over and over.

You didn't read my post clearly enough. The teacher claimed that *hot* water *does freeze* faster than *cold* water. She did not claim that 'warmer' water *can sometimes* freeze faster than 'cooler' water under certain limited conditions. I am well aware of the Mpemba Effect, and I am also aware that it only operates under certain limited conditions. You will not see the Mpemba effect with hot water versus cold water under typical household conditions.

Try it yourself. Put cold water from the tap into an ice cube tray. Put hot water from the tap into an identical tray. Put them both in the freezer. Check every 5-10 minutes. See which one freezes into solid ice cubes first (not just a thin film on the surface/edges) first.

I am talking about the urban legend that states that 'hot water freezes faster than cold water', which undoubtedly is *based* on the Mpembe effect, but which exaggerates it out of all proportion.

It's very much like the urban legend (in Canada) that Mountain Dew is the most caffeinated soft drink of the major brands. Sure, it's true that *in the USA* Mountain Dew is caffeinated highly. But in Canada, Mountain Dew has zero caffeine. And still you will find many Canadians who think that the Mountain Dew they bought from the corner store is highly caffeinated. Check for yourself if you happen to have any Canadian bottled Dew handy.

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Hypnosis is real, but ESP

Hypnosis is real, but ESP probably isn't.

 

That said, hypnosis is about the most un-mysterious thing you can imagine.

 

Allow me to explain.

 

Remember that time when you were totally relaxed. Remember how you completely let go with every cell in your body, and just took a huge relaxing breath.  Remember How you could just feel your body getting heavier and lighter at the same time.

 

 

Notice that after reading the above lines you have actually become a bit more relaxed just by remembering these things.  Now.  Notice that your breathing has become deeper and that you feel a bit more alert.

 

 

 

THAT'S Hypnosis.

 

To even understanding what I wrote your body responded to the commands embedded in the language in the above sentences.  You became more relaxed because in order for you to understand the phrase "remember that time when you were totally relaxed." some part of your mind is obeying the command and actually doing it.

Once you get this concept, you find that you can do interesting and fun things to people with (fairly) reliable effect.  Stagecraft is a part of it, because it's all placebo effect, and the more strongly you believe in my knowledge and my authority the more likely you are to obey my commands, but all I'm doing is getting you to follow directions about your unconscious processes, like breathing, relaxing your muscles, etc.

 

Now consider this:

 

Think of a time when you were fully engaged in your imagination.  Maybe you were reading a book or watching a movie.  You were SO engaged that you became unaware of your surroundings, didn't you?  This is a trance state.  So what if I were to give you a series of directions that got you into that state, so that you were ignoring your sensory input and concentrating strictly on the internal sensations of your imagination?  What could you do in that state?  Could you start feeling up some guy sitting next to you and imagine that he's a hot supermodel?

 

I think you could.

 

That's it.  That's all hypnosis is.

 

That said if you don't follow the directions I give, then I can't hypnotize you.  All hypnosis is is following directions.  It does take training though, because there is skill involved in knowing what directions to give, and in providing the stagecraft, but if a person doesn't want to cooperate with you then there is nothing you can do.  You can fuck with their heads though - like give them a folded paper that says "you are now standing" then start giving them commands to sit down and relax.

 

If they cooperate, you have them, because they are following directions.

 

If they stand up and get all stiff, you ask them to open the paper - now they think you made them stand up and get all stiff using reverse psychology.

 

See?  Fucking with people is FUN! Eye-wink


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Nice description, Susac.It

Nice description, Susac.

It reminds me of storytelling, and I bet they are very closely related. I can picture some tribe around a campfire telling their ancestral stories, and those stories filling the people's imaginations, causing them to later act on those ideas, for example, going to war with the neighbouring tribe.

Hmmm. Sounds like religion too. I think they are all very closely related. Hypnosis, intuition, stories, trance, religion. All basically different facets of the imagination.

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Exactly!  In fact once you

Exactly!  In fact once you know what trance looks like (not hard to figure out), you can notice it in all kinds of ritualized behaviors.  I remember seeing a film of an African tribe where some women were dancing as part of the ritual.  It was very clear that one woman in particular was in a trance but that the other dancers were not.  This woman's facial tone was very relaxed and her body movement was fluid.  She seemed to be riding waves in the music, it was very cool looking.

 

What was particularly interesting as far as we are concerned on this forum, is that this was all part of a religious ritual.  The tribe viewed her as being possessed by spirits, and it's not hard to see why.  What I think was happening was that she was accessing brain systems that allowed her to experience an altered state of consciousness.

 

Think of consciousness as a spotlight.  You have all these brain systems that are activating at low threshold levels.  As long as they are operating at low threshold levels, they are "unconscious."  As these processes move in and out of awareness, it's like the spotlight of consciousness is moving around on your brain, causing specific areas to light up, and as they do you become aware of them.  Kind of a cool metaphor.

 

I think that when you are in a trance, what is happening is that you are moving that spotlight from the part of the brain where it usually is resting, onto an area of the brain that doesn't usually see much spotlight.  I have an idea that the left hemisphere is where you usually "live" as a conscious being.  Think about it:

 

For me at least, I do most of my thinking in words.  I literally form words in my head.  When I learn a new word, I learn a new idea, which means that I literally become better at thinking.  I also form pictures in my head.  Sometimes I will take even non-physical ideas (like systems) and move them around in a sort of 3D mental space in my head.  This is all happening in the context of space and time.  That is to say, when I do all this I am aware of space and time.  All of these things are functions of the left hemisphere.

 

But I have had experiences outside of these normal ranges.  I have been in states of mind where I am not aware of space and time.  I have had "spiritual experiences" in which I am aware of resources far beyond the simple linear limits of my normal state of mind.  I have engaged in meditations in which I was aware of a sort of bottomless pool of love at the base of consciousness, and I have noticed times when I have been in trances where I completely lost touch with time and space.

 

Masturbation is like that.  The closer I get to orgasm, the more vivid and real my fantasies become and the less I am aware of my environment.  When I cum, my mind stops.  This is why some Hindu religions believed that orgasm was the route to enlightenment.  Now there's a cult that knows how to worship!  Laughing out loud

 

Once you notice that you can play around with your consciousness as a deliberate practice, you start to see the power of religion.  Religion is all about using mythology, hypnosis and story-telling in order to evoke specific states of mind.  This is one of the things that I think that religion is good for.  I also think that it's useful to consider that many of the myths of religion are useful stories for creating an idea of how to act under certain circumstances.

 

Let me give you an example:

 

I have been in jobs where I have significant authority over other human beings.  I worked in a drug court, where I could ask the judge to jail or release a given client, and generally expect that he would respect my request.  This gave me a large amount of influence with the clients, who often kissed up to me in order to curry my favor.  This put me in a moral dilemma.  How do I relate with these clients as a clinician, and effectively use my influence to help or at least not hurt my clients.  Keep in mind that these clients were drug addicts.  This means that they were experts at lying, manipulating and generally shucking and jiving.

 

The solution that I arrived at was actually fairly simple, but because it was simple, I found it to be quite powerful.  I realized that there is a simple rule that I could follow that kept me on the right side of morality, and it went like this:

"Only use your power aid those who you have power over."

This did not mean getting them off the hook.  Helping a drug addict means giving them the consequences of their actions, so I was not about to use my influence to help them to shuck and jive.  No, helping a drug addict means compassionately listening to them, AND confronting their bullshit and using good judgment to decide when to advocate for inpatient treatment as an alternative to incarceration.

I found this axiom very useful in helping me deal with corruption.  When I had opportunities to use my position to make money, I did not succumb.  when I had a hooker stick her (rather lovely) breasts in my face, I thanked her kindly and told her to talk to the judge.  Staying on the right side of morality was not hard, but the temptation was always there, and I did the right thing by sticking to this rule.  Making a buck or getting laid would have served myself instead of my clients.

So there you go.

 

Now MANY moral stories and myths contain this lesson.  Consider the story of Jesus.  He was the ultimate power of the universe.  He used his power to help the lowest of the low, and he was tempted by Satan who offered him all the kingdoms of the world.  This is the principal of servant leadership.  As far as I can tell Servant Leadership is the ONLY moral way to use authority, and Jesus is the ultimate archetype of this idea.  He represents my little moral principal on steroids.

 

Same thing with Moses, but with Moses he succumbed to hubris and took credit for god's work, and so he was barred from the promised land.  So here is a warning about what happens when you use your power to aggrandize yourself.

 

In fact this moral principal is repeated again and again in the bible, and in LOTS of religious traditions.  I think it represents something true about the moral use of power.  A lot of the stories in the bible are designed to offer role models and warnings for servant leadership. 

 

One of the other things you get in the bible are a lot of vague stories.  Vague stories are tools for hypnotic induction.  Think about the story of Sampson and Delilah.  Sampson gets a haircut and looses his strength.  Then he's blinded, and he grows back his hair and destroys the temple as he sacrifices himself.  Pretty powerful imagery there.  But what does it mean?  I can think of 2-3 meanings off the top of my head.

 

Why is that?  Why have a story that is so vague that all kinds of meanings can be taken from it.

 

Well, two reasons - the first one is that if you are a priest, it's easy to use the story to justify a wide verity of messages in your sermon.  But this is incidental.

I think that the main reason is this:  If a metaphorical story has vague meaning, then it invites me to project my own meaning onto it.  One of the axioms of hypnosis is the idea of "artful vagueness"  When I asked you to remember being really relaxed, I didn't specify any particular time - I just gave a vague command to relax, and described the process of relaxation.  Your mind picked out a specific time, and followed the command based on the command word "remember."

 

So these stories are vague specifically BECAUSE they are powerful tools for hypnotic induction!

 

OK, so here is the last idea I want to leave you with:

consider that "artful vagueness" is a tool of the hypnotist.

Another tool of hypnosis is what is called a "trance word"  A trance word is any word that invites you to use your imagination.  So "Imagine" and "Remember" are trance word "how surprise would you be to realize..." is a trance preposition, because it invites the listener to accept an idea suddenly into awareness. 

 

Another tool of hypnosis is magical thinking - the imagination is a part of your mind in-which anything is possible.  your imagination allows for the possibility of magic and it bypasses your critical reasoning.

 

OK, not think about God.

 

God is an idea that is:

Vague - Ask any 100 people who or what god is and you will get 100 different answers

Imaginary - He is bigger than the whole universe, and he exists outside of time and space - you have to stretch your imagination as big as it can get to even think about God.

An authority -  As the creator of the universe and the divine monarch he is the ultimate authority.

all-knowing, all-powerful - Magical - He is the ultimate magical figure.

All loving - and therefore ultimately trustworthy.

 

 

OK, so we have psychologically unpacked the idea of god.  What do we learn here:

 

God is a trance word

God is a trance word that not only invites you to enter into a trance but it also has embedded in it implicit commands to believe, obey, and trust without question.

 

Now you can see why priests have so much power!  God is a tool that is used by priests like a sock puppet in order for them to exert influence over their "flock."

But at the end of the day, it's all hypnosis.

 

 


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Nice post. Your ideas mirror

Nice post. Your ideas mirror mine, in many respects. The last several years for me have been spent exploring the intuition, which for me is a catch-word that represents a style of thinking/being based more on the metaphorical than the rational. I would go into it more, but it's quite late. Suffice it to say that you're not alone here. I remain strictly rational as my chosen philosophical foundation, but I definitely dabble in the intuitional. I just don't let it take over my mind with faith.

I'm working towards a popular philosophy of rationalism explained through intuitional means, such as myth and metaphor. When Sagan speaks of 'wouldn't it be great if we had something to replace religion that instead of glorifying ignorance, glorified science and rational thought' (to very loosely paraphrase), that's what I'm working towards. "God is imaginary. Wonder is real."

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Easy again

How do I let my fellow students know the authority figure actually doesn't know what she's saying?

It is clear what must be done. Do what Brick-Top from Snatch would do. It is your duty.

Am I bringing the tone down here? Is that too edgy admin?

Who would want to finish what they have said with the same thing everytime?


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Going back to the OP's

Going back to the OP's question about ESP and repressed memories.

 

Repressed memories is a dicey issue.  Studies have shown that it is easy for people to implant memories in subjects of things that never happened.  It seems that the way memory works is that you actually reconstruct your memories moment by moment, so it's easy to insert wrong events.  I have gotten into trouble by reconstructing memories wrongly, even by simply putting events out of order.

 

That said, it is a pretty standard therapy issue to work with repressed memories.  When a person is traumatized they go through the stages of grief.  If they don't successfully negotiate these stages (as often happens if they are young and in situations where they are repeatedly traumatized - like an abusive family), we learn to simply block out the memory of the event as a coping strategy.

 

This is a very common strategy, but it is especially common with children, who often don't have the psychological and physical and economic resources to do anything else but endure.

 

This unresolved grief often expresses itself in compulsive behaviors, low self-esteem etc. etc.  Part of treatment is going back and looking at the wound and allowing the person to experience the grief associated with it (as well as the fear and revulsion).  Working with these emotions associated with repressed memories is a common goal of therapy.

 

At some level it doesn't matter if the event really happened or if it happened the way the client said it happened.  What matters is what the person believes and how it effects their behavior.

 

Another problem that MOST of us face is that when we are placed in challenging situations as kids we often make wrong decisions about the situation.  So treatment isn't about a repressed memory so much as a limiting decision that is later forgotten.

Let me give you a very common example:

 

Mom gets drunk and beats little Billy.  Little Billy knows it's coming because this is what happens when mom gets drunk and it's not the first time. 

So little Billy takes the beating and then rationalizes it by telling himself that HE was bad. 

This does two things for little Billy - first, it let's him think that his mother is good - he needs to have a good mother, so he imagines that it must be his fault that she is like this.

Second, by believing that he is bad, he is giving himself the illusion of control over the situation.  I must be bad, because I got beat - if I can be a good boy, then I'll avoid the beating.

He then goes on to forget that he made this decision, he just acts out in school because that's what bad boys do.

 

This sort of rationalization is the foundation of the Just World Fallacy.  The just world fallacy is the idea that we live in a just world, so if something bad happens to you it must be because you are bad, not that the world is a randomly cruel place. 

This is why so many people like to blame the victim - it let's them feel safe - "if something bad happened to you, then you must have done something wrong to deserve it, but since I am clearly a person of unusual virtue, I am safe."

 

OK, enough about repression and psychological defenses.

 

As for the ESP - I would try this tactic - step by step:

 

1)  Talk up your teacher and get her to agree that the way science works is that first you look at the data then you come to a conclusion - If you first come to a conclusion and then look at the data this is called an a-priori error.

 

2)  Ask her what the data is that supports the conclusion that ESP is real.  What studies can she sight?

 

3a)  If she sights a study - great - let us know what it is and we will help vet it for you - I mean if ESP is real, this is big news! 

3b)  If she starts shucking and jiving, say the following:  "OK, you just said that you have to look at the evidence first.  So what does it do for you to believe in ESP even if you have no evidence to support it?"

 

This question is designed to both put her on the spot and make her think about her own process, hopefully without humiliating her too much.  Still, this seems like a good learning moment for both her and the class.

 

Hope that helps.


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peppermint wrote:I've

peppermint wrote:
I've seen...

You've claimed to have recieved impressive beneficial results from psuedoscientific ju-ju treatment.

Forgive me if your personal experience holds no weight in my eyes.

 

No, they don't bribe every audience member. Just the ones they want to involve in the performance (alternatively, they simply plant audience members).

Or did you genuinely believe that David Copperfield has the ability to make people fly? Sticking out tongue

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"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

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pyrokidd wrote:Now we're

pyrokidd wrote:

Now we're learning about altered states of consciousness and she's going on and on about hypnosis. Can someone tell me about what it really is? I know people can achieve altered consciousness through it, but what about all this repressed memory crap? I seem to remember some religious fanatics thinking they all had repressed  some memories about being abused in a satanic cult as children. But they all somehow brought it out through hypnosis. The same technique is used to help people "remember" alien abduction. So it seems like lots of bullshit to me, but then I'm no expert on hypnosis. Does anyone know some actual facts about it?


My mother does a past life regression therapy for years, so I have an unique experiences from practice and I can say it works very well. It's a method similar to one used by professional psychologists for many years. It is in a relaxed state, not a deep hypnosis, and the client is able to open the eyes, end the session and walk away any moment.
However, the relaxed state and an authoritative instructions of the therapist seems to be able to wake up in our memory any possible moment in our life, birth, prenatal state, or our past incarnations on Earth. This is a theory, in practice we go through this tremendous amount of time by strong leading feelings or emotions, (like an irrational fear from water and swimming) so we pick like one initiating childhood memory and then several past lives with a similar experience, but leading to a violent and very unpleasant death. (usually by drowning or being drowned, if this is the case of a fear)
The historical circumstances, which could prove that these are really past lives are scarce, because they're not an important subject of the therapy, an alleviation of the traumatizing moment is, as for my mother's practice. Anyway, we do not go after the historical data, so we do not make the client to "look around" to see if that's really a 14th century castle in Moravia. The process is already very long and tedious even without that. Most of the past lives can theoretically be genuine, but there are also so-called models of life or situation. For example, a people's sub-consciousness decides that the best for them is to experience with all physical and emotional details a death of John Huss, John the Baptist, Mary Magdalena, or any such a well known story.
There are people who aren't able of this, but this is either by their fear from following other person's instructions (a woman's instructions, as they're mostly men) or people who did take a psychopharmacy medicine recently, which ruins the effect.
So far, over 200 clients and no alien abduction or satanic abusive ritual. (also, no future lives) I strongly doubt about these things, the extraterrestrials are our friends and Satanists are just a naturalistic humanists Smiling
 

pyrokidd wrote:
But the main question is, how do I confront a teacher who I think is wrong about something? For intance, as part of a class I thought would deal with strictly science, she gave us a whole special lesson on ESP. I personally thought pretty much every medium, psychic, telepathic, and clairvoyant out there was full of crap but the teacher teaches it as fact to a class that people have these abilities. This is just one of many things she has taught the class that I'm pretty sure is false. How do I let my fellow students know the authority figure actually doesn't know what she's saying?
Technically, she can't bring a psychic to the class to prove the stuff, but people like her values a personal experience. Ask her, how does she know these things, where she was, what she saw, and also if you have the cojones, you can tell her, that without a solid evidence all her words are just a words, worthy only of hypothetical consideration. Unless she brings a scientific studies.

As for me, knowing some psychics and mediums in this area, I can tell you, it is possible for a psychic to be genuine, but also full of crap at the same time. If there is any helpful spirit they're talking to, then it in most of cases is an ignorant, self-important spirit, who doesn't have any means nor desire to bring a real information to it's medium, he wants to say anything, just to not let the medium "hang up the phone". Not everything you read on the internet is true, and not everything a spirits can say in your head is true as well. I could go on with a technical details, but I'd just sum it up, that I'd trust more a medium with mental skills of critical thinking, than a medium without them.

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Susac wrote:That said, it is

Susac wrote:

That said, it is a pretty standard therapy issue to work with repressed memories.  When a person is traumatized they go through the stages of grief.  If they don't successfully negotiate these stages (as often happens if they are young and in situations where they are repeatedly traumatized - like an abusive family), we learn to simply block out the memory of the event as a coping strategy.

 

I'd oppose this a bit. The regression therapy doesn't work only with repressed memories. It often works with totally insignificant memories, serving as a key to a chain of memories of trauma which one never could have in this life... For example,
I remember a case of a boy (from other therapist's practice, my mom's colleague) who had some kind of cysts or tumors appearing around his wrist for no obvious reason. These had to be regularly taken out by surgery.
The memory which appeared to him as the first in regression, which caused this physical effect, appeared to be quite innocent. He just saw his grandfather to cut a wood by a hand axe, in the back yard.
Now this memory led him in regression into seeing himself as a young thief in some oriental town. He stole a food, they cut his hand off as a punishment, and he bled to death.

Now which memory is more traumatic, and thus more likely to cause the mentioned psychosomatic effect? The 'real' memory of a grandfather cutting wood, or the 'impossible' experience of having the hand cut off?
As I remember, the therapist said that in the end of the session the cysts on the boy's wrist disappeared.
This is also the case with irrational, panicking fear from fire, which usually shows a witch burning event in a regression. Where in the world today a person in childhood could possibly be threatened by a witch burning?
Of course, there's no official record of this, so take it only as an example of what therapists usually works with, and how it gets them to consider the idea of past lives the only natural explanation for a cases like this.

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Kevin R Brown

Kevin R Brown wrote:

peppermint wrote:
I've seen...

You've claimed to have recieved impressive beneficial results from psuedoscientific ju-ju treatment.

Forgive me if your personal experience holds no weight in my eyes.

 

No, they don't bribe every audience member. Just the ones they want to involve in the performance (alternatively, they simply plant audience members).

Or did you genuinely believe that David Copperfield has the ability to make people fly? Sticking out tongue

 

Fine by me.

They really CAN'T if they've never met the damn people before the show, like my friends from college who were in it. But then again,  seeing as though you know everything about this "pseduoscientific ju-ju treatment"...

*Our world is far more complex than the rigid structure we want to assign to it, and we will probably never fully understand it.*

"Those believers who are sophisticated enough to understand the paradox have found exciting ways to bend logic into pretzel shapes in order to defend the indefensible." - Hamby