Why should I become an atheist?

mig_killer2
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Why should I become an atheist?

Let's for the sake of argument assume that God does not exist.

 

what do I stand to gain by believing this?

"If you can make any religion of the world look ridiculous, chances are you haven't understood it"-Ravi Zacharias


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Bump, thanks again RRS -

Bump, thanks again RRS - Umm, what can I add? Well, when you god of abraham idol worship fans get to evangelizing , I get pissed. The philosophical atheistic Jesus I do like in the bi bull of contradictions would say again, to all inventors and sheep idol worshiper separatists, FUCK YOU. My simple good atheist Jesus basically said, "this is the kingdom of god and heaven and hell NOW, I and all are ONE with god, the very nature of ALL existence. Go science, fuck religion."

I AM GOD AS YOU,  there is No Master, no other, all is One. All idol worship is the devil, creator of hell, of WRONG thinking. To be ATHEIST , is to be "saved" .... To shout at Christianity is to "Shout At The Devil" ..... FUCK No to all idols.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Shout+at+the+Devil&aq=f

 Religion is the "Looks that Kill" ....  fix these words !  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43A_q22FTUI

mig_killer2, your idol is the sick enemy to heal .... I AM ATHEIST, I AM 100% GOD as YOU are, as ALL is god NOW ....  The devil / satan, often, simply means wrong thinking.

Science = the study of god.   Religion = make believe god(s)

 


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mig_killer2 wrote: who said

mig_killer2 wrote:

who said anything about the bible being the inerrant word of God? could you quote me saying that the bible is inerrant?

Dude, do have any idea what it means to be a xian?! It's all or nothing, i.e. not 'verse X is true, but verse Y is allegorical or just plain false'!!!

in their entirety? have YOU even checked them out "In their entirety"? In their entirety was perhaps too strong of a word. But to NOT be the slightest bit swayed by these arguments is to me downright delusional!!

but I have been to those websites before, and they by and large rely on emotional appeals.


Can you elaborate?

my religion certainly is not based on appeals to emotion. your websites however, especially godisimaginary and whatever websites that fucktard Mushfer Brains runs have nothing but emotional appeals.

Is Marshall Brain the best 'apologist' for atheism? Of course not, but he DOES have some good points!!

{fixed-aiia}

I never onced called the Bible "the inerrant word of God"

If you don't think that the bible is the inerrant word of god, then which sacred book do you believe in then?! If you believe parts of the bible are true & the Flood isn't (or the Genesis account), then you are picking & choosing. Who decides what is allegorical or true?

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Some info on how to use the quote functions

Click the word "quote" or "reply" at the bottom of the post to which you want to reply.

An edit window will open.

At the beginning of the text you will see: [ quote={person's name} ] (without the spaces)

At the end of the post you will see [ /quote ] (again, without the spaces)

If you want to reply to multiple parts of the post, be sure you have matching beginning and ending quotes. I.e. [ quote ] and [ /quote ]

Put everything the other guy said between the quote codes i.e. [ quote ] what the other guy said [ /quote ]

but without the spaces

 

Delete everything you do not want to show up in your reply

People who think there is something they refer to as god don't ask enough questions.


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mig_killer2, You should

mig_killer2,
You should watch this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkHarZHrWJE&feature=rec-fresh

Jesus didn't ride a donkey don't ya know, he rode an Apotasaurus!
www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/431306643/


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That's hot , thanks Free man

That's hot , thanks Free man , I will email that video promptly


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I AM GOD AS YOU wrote:That's

I AM GOD AS YOU wrote:

That's hot , thanks Free man , I will email that video promptly

No problem!  Edward Current is a satirical genius imho.  His other vids are also worth checking out.

Jesus didn't ride a donkey don't ya know, he rode an Apotasaurus!
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Thanks again FreeThinker, me

Thanks again FreeThinker, signed, me god.  Yeah so now what, make religion shit up?    Religion is for idiots .... so how to heal and educate that enemy .... LOL, empathy, is how  ....  I like that mentor you bring ..... 


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Inerrant Scripture

mig_killer2 wrote:

 I never onced called the Bible "the inerrant word of God"

 

Ummm, didn't you make reference to your connection with Tektonics and your nomination of Rook for some negative award on that rather pathetic, highly defensive web site?  Tektonics in its mission statement declares its belief in an inerrant bible, so it seems you associate with biblical inerrancists.  Given that a person is known by the company he keeps it seems reasonable to assume you are at least a 'fellow traveler'.   Especially as elsewhere you recommend inerrancist scholars like William Lane Craig.  Perhaps you shift your  'beliefs' according to the case you are arguing.    Nothing like being flexible is there?    

............................................................

"Humanity has the stars in its future, and that future is too important to be lost under the burden of juvenile folly and ignorant superstition". - Isaac Asimov


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jmm wrote:mig_killer2

jmm wrote:

mig_killer2 wrote:

Let's for the sake of argument assume that God does not exist.

 

what do I stand to gain by believing this?

A free DVD. 

 

A date with heidi klum or similar

 

$200,000 over the course of your life

 

Intellectual honesty

 

More friends

 

Better family relations

 

Eternal bliss

 

Eternal thanks from other atheists

 

A NEW CAR!

 

A winning hand at poker

 

A baby or a pet

 

Solid cellular service for 30 minutes

 

etc,

 

Imagine the people who believe such things and who are not ashamed to ignore, totally, all the patient findings of thinking minds through all the centuries since the Bible was written. And it is these ignorant people, the most uneducated, the most unimaginative, the most unthinking among us, who would make themselves the guides and leaders of us all; who would force their feeble and childish beliefs on us; who would invade our schools and libraries and homes. I personally resent it bitterly.
Isaac Asimov


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mig_killer2 wrote:Nikolaj

mig_killer2 wrote:

Nikolaj wrote:

So it's a bargain to you? You wanna gain something, before you even consider what is true? That's the problem. I'm an atheist, not because I chose it, but because with what I know of the world, what that makes me is atheist. It is not something I choose to be, it's just something I am. Actually, the word atheist is only one I have started using about myself after I started frequenting these boards.

Before that I didn't even consider the word. I was born not believing in God, and that's how I've remained.

So you don't stand to gain anything (tangible), but since there is no such thing is heaven, nor do you stand to loose anything by not being religious.

apparently a lot of you guys were not understanding the gist of my argument. If belief in God makes me happy (and it does BTW), and not believing in God gives me nothing, then why should I not believe in God?

Belief in the sun being a thinking entity made the ancient Egyptians happy for 3 thousand years, but it still didn't change the fact that civilization wasted its time doing such. I myself am happy to know that the sun is a ball of burning gas.

The entire stupid motif of the Abrahamic religions is that of bribes and threats.

Which is more moral to you? Someone who donates money to a charity looking for a tax break? Or someone who donates that same amount not expecting anything back?

The same goes with learning. Do you learn something new because someone might give you something? Or do you learn something for the sake of learning?

Theism teaches you to act like a child who needs to be told what to do with daddy threating to spank you or bribes you with a cookie. That is not moral, that is like training a dog. I don't consider my intellect to be the same as a dog and a sure wouldn't follow any human who would expect me to act like such.

I am an adult and whomever I am arround has something they want to convince me of, or wants me to do, better demonstrate WHY I should head their advice. Blindly following anything, a celebrity, a politician, a political party, a government, or a god, without question is stupid.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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MattShizzle wrote:Can we

MattShizzle wrote:

Can we give this fuckwad the asshat avatar?

There can be no greater compliment than to be given the asshat avatar by the greatest ambassador for rational thinking.

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen


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I haven't read all of the

I haven't read all of the thread so someone may have already read this.... If you become an atheist you'll be just as happy as you were as a christian. Because all the things that genuinely make you happy will still be there.

What you will gain is a freedom from the hell doctrine. From the fear that keeps you in line, that makes you feel guilty whenever you put a foot wrong, that has you praying for forgiveness all the time in order to minimise the chance of going to hell. Freedom from the "knowledge" that any loved ones you have who don't believe are going to hell. Freedom from the urgew to convert them so they may be heaven bound.

Ultimately, the gains will be for society as a whole. I don't think the individual will see any greater elevation in their mood, but society may start seeing a reduction in some of it's woes. Or maybe not.

See, no christian decides to become atheist. If your line of enquiry ever leads you  toward the path of non - believing,  it'll just be your own bad/good luck.  Once you see it, you can't not see it. You will have no say in the matter. Then you'll have to just bite the bullet and focus on other things to make you happy, like family and friends etc.

Wish in one hand, shit in the other, see which one fills up first.


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Jello wrote:I haven't read

Jello wrote:

I haven't read all of the thread so someone may have already read this.... If you become an atheist you'll be just as happy as you were as a christian. Because all the things that genuinely make you happy will still be there.

 

Yes, Jello. What you've said is very true. But I wonder whether he could understand that those things 'will still be there' 

The reason I hadn't responded to his initial two questions from the OP was because I assumed that at one point in his life, mig was in fact an Atheist.

Mig made this statement early on (post #8) :

Quote:
If belief in God helps me, and nonbelief does not help me, then why should I choose unbelief?

There's no way he could know that 'nonbelief did not help him', unless at one time he had been a non-believer. Of course, he carefully phrased his question at the start by using the word 'IF', but I see that of little consequence as to whether he has actually experienced either or both... especially considering that prior to the above statement, mig already admitted his god belief.

Anyway, since I assumed he had already thoroughly sampled both belief and non-belief, I decided he must've already answered his own questions (had no real intention of wanting change from his belief) and was merely casting out his line here to see what he could snag.

I'm not here to waste what few spare moments I have trying to help someone who is not being genuine or is merely wanting to argue (or both). Part of that may be on me...my own time deficiency.


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You get to enjoy drinking

You get to enjoy drinking the brains from new born babie. Just kidding.


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nigelTheBold

nigelTheBold wrote:

mig_killer2 wrote:

Let's for the sake of argument assume that God does not exist.

what do I stand to gain by believing this?

You haven't given nearly enough information in this one post the determine in which ways your belief in God might be detrimental to your own well-being, the well-being of your friends and family, the development of your neighbourhood or your country, or the further development of society as a whole.

In essence, your responses to the perfectly valid answers have been predicated on this lack of information. In essence, you have said, "Ah, that might work in general, but that does not apply to me!" without indicating exactly what you believe, or in which ways you practice that belief.

So, there is no actual answers except those given, which you have failed to either address directly (relying instead on derision and insufferable arrogance) or to address indirectly, by providing data on your actual beliefs.

The general answer relies entirely on the answer to these questions:

1. Would you rather live in self-delusion, or understand the nature of reality?

2. Does your belief cause you to behave in a way that is detrimental to others?

3. If so, do you mind behaving in a way that is detrimental to others?

4. Does cognitive dissonance cause you physical discomfort?

As long as you don't mind your own self-delusion, you don't care how your self-delusion affects others, and the cognitive dissonance caused by the conflict of your self-delusion and reality does not cause you mental discomfort, you stand nothing to gain subjectively. Objectively, however, incorrect beliefs cause artificial obstacles when confronting reality, which may make certain decisions seem easier, when in fact your blinkered view of reality obscures the correct decision.

Now theres a man who recognizes the problem. He, thus far, has refused to give details on what he gets from religious belief. He has refused to line out what he does believe.

He just keep saying the wrong assumptions are being made about his beliefs. He is just allowing those who are interested to chase their tails while he laughs. He has presented a small piece of a topic and is letting us try to attempt to clairfy his question for him. How could anyone answer his silly intro? Ya' can't. That's why he's having so much fun. How could anyone know what he believes or why he should believe one thing or another. We are to describe to him why his personal life (one that whe know nothing about) would be better without theism... best of luck.

People can't seem to "understand" his complex question. Wonder why that might be. If someone wants their question to be addressed perhaps they should provide a little more information. But I am guessing he knows that... which is why he's having such a good time.

"Why should *I* be atheist" who knows dude ... the question is "why should a person believe in reality over superstition"

That question has been answered a dozen times at least.


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Future Indefinite

Future Indefinite wrote:

mig_killer2 wrote:

Let's for the sake of argument assume that God does not exist.

what do I stand to gain by believing this?

I would have thought that you would choose to believe what is true regardless of its happy-making properties.

Nah, he has made it perfectly clear that he is in it for the payoff.

To the OP:

Your question has been answered as well as it can with the information you have provided. Atheism does not come with a cash payout. It does not come with an "everything just feels better" clause. If your belief system must come with a payoff and "reality" isn't enough... I suggest you stick with your bedtime stories (whichever silly superstition you believe in).


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mig_killer2 wrote:Let's for

mig_killer2 wrote:

Let's for the sake of argument assume that God does not exist.

 

what do I stand to gain by believing this?

 

What do you gain by not believing that Santa exists, or pixies or unicorns?  It's has nothing to do with gaining something - typical for a Xian to ask "what's in it for me?"  Atheism is the lack of a belief.  you arrive at the belief through reason and logic (not faith).

 

Gods don't exist.  What do you gain by believeing they do?

Imagine the people who believe such things and who are not ashamed to ignore, totally, all the patient findings of thinking minds through all the centuries since the Bible was written. And it is these ignorant people, the most uneducated, the most unimaginative, the most unthinking among us, who would make themselves the guides and leaders of us all; who would force their feeble and childish beliefs on us; who would invade our schools and libraries and homes. I personally resent it bitterly.
Isaac Asimov


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mig_killer2 wrote: who said

I keep trying to edit one of my dialogues w/ mig_killer2.  I'm trying to make it easier for everyone to read it.

I'll use the 'quote' function properly hopefully before the end of this millenium! Eye-wink 

 

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...I believe mig_killer2 has

...I believe mig_killer2 has left the building.


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ProzacDeathWish wrote:...I

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

...I believe mig_killer2 has left the building.

 

Sure looks that way...but it's only been a week.

Maybe there was a religious convention somewhere?

Or maybe he just got...

Crucified

 

Nah, silly me, that could never happen.

Spin

btw, prozac, wendy with the knife is COOL


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ProzacDeathWish wrote:...I

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

...I believe mig_killer2 has left the building.

Probably started a new thread somewhere:  "Why should I stay a christian?"

There are no theists on operating tables.

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nothing

mig_killer2 wrote:

Let's for the sake of argument assume that God does not exist.

 

what do I stand to gain by believing this?

 

you gain nothign but understanding. you are comfortablein your belief, and as was i. i remember when i lost my faith. it wasnt through science, or the MANY contradictions in the bible which made no sense. i lost my faith through personal experiences. i was raised very religious. i was actually a creationist, and prayed often. when i was bullied in school, i prayed. when my parents started fighting, i prayed for them to stay together. when my cat got sick, i prayed for her to stay alive. when my grandma got cancer, i prayed for her to survive. then, my parents got divorced, my cat was put down, and my grandma died after a LONG PAINFUL fight with cancer, and still the bullying continued. after all this, i came to a horrible realization. there is no god. i gained nothing but understanding. i could see that the emperor was TOTALLY NAKED! i realized that god is as real as santa. so, i gained only a small bit of knowledge, but this opened up my mind to a myriad of wonderful things; evolution, the big bang, dinosaurs were before humans.

so, tell me, my theist friend, why did i have to go through so much shit, just to lead to a loss of one of the biggest pillars of my life?

and, answer this small question. if god is all loving, why do children get terminal cancer?

all hail the great and powerful sluffywinks.


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mig_killer2 wrote:Let's for

mig_killer2 wrote:

Let's for the sake of argument assume that God does not exist.

 

what do I stand to gain by believing this?

 

GRRR you kind of answered your own question. You gain truth if god is nonexistent , your shred off a delusion and it is a delusion if in this argument you assumed god is nonexistent , religion is a delusion in your own words for this argument .

Besides lets see , you get the lifting of dogmatic dictatorship of religion and now :

 

-         Stem cell research and medicine from it is available for you and other people (everyone is atheist in this scenario).

-         You can masturbate , masturbation is more fun then feeling the presence of god so from a pleasure standpoint masturbation is more true then god (you must stop believing in god and start masturbate this will give you more pleasure you little hedonist )

-         You gain scientific knowledge about the world if you embraced creationism before

-         You will lose the fear of hell.

 

Besides if you measure your standpoint on pleasure why not replace god with something that gives you more pleasure ? A atheistic philosophy ? Candy ? Masturbation ? Drugs ? Strong medication ? The removal of the part of the brain responsible for pain (you will feel non stop pleasure and will never be sad or unhappy )

 

Warning I’m not a native English speaker.

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mig_killer2 wrote:Let's for

mig_killer2 wrote:

Let's for the sake of argument assume that God does not exist.

 

what do I stand to gain by believing this?

Answer number one:

Who cares ? It is your life.

Civilized answer:

Freedom of moral choices. Life ruled by reason not dogma. Free sundays and more savings. Am I already getting sarcastic ?

The question you should ask yourself is not:

what will I get from not believing in god

but

what do I have from believing in him.

Ecrasez l'infame!


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Quote:Let's for the sake of

Quote:

Let's for the sake of argument assume that God does not exist.

 what do I stand to gain by believing this?

Do you have so little critical thinking ability that you pick and choose what to believe, and that you believe things based on some sort of perceived gain? 

Do you believe in Santa Claus?  Now there is some gain.  Presents every December.

Personally, *I* believe things BECAUSE THERE IS EVIDENCE.  I may or may not like what I believe.  But when I believe something it's because that's what the physical evidence leads me to think.


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mig_killer2 wrote:Let's for

mig_killer2 wrote:

Let's for the sake of argument assume that God does not exist.

 

what do I stand to gain by believing this?

Improved mental health

People who think there is something they refer to as god don't ask enough questions.


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ProzacDeathWish wrote:...I

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

...I believe mig_killer2 has left the building.

Perhaps he realized he was painting himself in a corner.


 

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"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.


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mig_killer2 wrote:Let's for

mig_killer2 wrote:

Let's for the sake of argument assume that God does not exist.

 

what do I stand to gain by believing this?

 

Why for the sake of argument?  Why not in reality?

 

Since God DOESN'T exist, what do you gain by believing an imaginary being that makes you feel bad for touching your Johnson?  Less Johnson touching?

 

Well, aaalllrriiighghgtttyyyy tthen!  You gotta (not) do what you do!

Imagine the people who believe such things and who are not ashamed to ignore, totally, all the patient findings of thinking minds through all the centuries since the Bible was written. And it is these ignorant people, the most uneducated, the most unimaginative, the most unthinking among us, who would make themselves the guides and leaders of us all; who would force their feeble and childish beliefs on us; who would invade our schools and libraries and homes. I personally resent it bitterly.
Isaac Asimov


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mig_killer2 wrote:Let's for

mig_killer2 wrote:

Let's for the sake of argument assume that God does not exist.

 

what do I stand to gain by believing this?

The same thing you stand to gain by believing anything: a false sense of surety.

 

Rather, for the sake of argument, let us take the following premises:

  1. The existence of God cannot be empirically proven or disproven.
  2. Belief is an assertion of surety of knowledge; to believe in something is to claim that you feel confident enough to assert that it is true.

Then, let us ask this: Can you be sure? Truly sure, not simply 'sure enough' to ignore the doubts you still have? If so, how? If not, then are you comfortable with the idea that you are lying to yourself? Are you comfortable with the idea that you are lying to others? We'll come back to that last bit.

First, we should look at the dangers of lying to oneself. Self-delusion is a dangerous habit to get into; it has a tendency to expand beyond our initial intent. A man who habitually lies to himself will find it easier to continue to do so in other avenues -  such as when he questions his own judgment or motives, for example. This can lend us a false sense of security and confidence, and often ends up leading us astray into decisions or situations which are harmful to ourselves or those around us. A man who habitually lies to himself may have an easier time justifying to himself actions with he knows to be foolish or wrong. Better to not lie to ourselves, to admit when we simply don't know, and to continue to seek understanding and truth. The man who does this is far more likely to understand himself, and those around him.

We don't exist in a vacuum, obviously. If we did, none of us would be communicating with one another. Our decisions matter in the here-and-now, but more, they matter in the cascading sequence of decisions to come. Consider: The point was raised that religion has caused more externally-directed harm than drug use, in the form of wars, crusades, campaigns of conversion 'by fire and sword' as it were, inquisitions, etc. You counter, quite reasonably, with the fact that your statement was about you. Just you. Why should you actively disbelieve in the existence of God? It's a fair question, and a fair response, but at the same time, it's a bit myopic.

Let us abstract the question, just slightly: 'Why should I abandon X belief?' If you don't feel this is a fair abstraction of your original question, then I acknowledge that you likely will feel the rest of the response to that abstraction will not apply. However, I do ask that you consider it, just the same. Obviously, if you feel this is a fair abstraction of your original inquiry, I also ask that you consider what follows.

Lets us then look at 'why should I abandon X belief?' in an historical context: If belief X helps you to function in your daily life, gives you some measure of stress relief and reassurance in your own worth, and allows you to externalize and face hardships you encounter with greater ease, then you might well consider that belief to be helpful. But beliefs are funny things: they are easily twisted and used in times of difficulty as a means to divide people, to categorize, to find the 'other' among us and shun them. At this point, you may well be saying to yourself 'I already responded to that, though. That has happened, sure, but that wasn't me, so why should it be applied to me?'

And the answer is: what comes after you. Who comes after you? Imagine, if you will, a world where belief in the 'subhuman' nature of the Jewish people simply wasn't handed down to children anymore after, say, 1800. Or better, where that belief had never been promulgated to begin with. And yet, for working poor, the ability to demonize a people they'd never met, and would never met, to give a label and a 'face' to an external agency that was somehow responsible for their poverty, their misery, their hardships... provided an outlet for stress and frustration, another bond with those around them, and the reassurance that no, of course they weren't the bottom of the food chain. Why, those people were hardly even human!

It helped people deal with the frustrations and hardships of their existence. If it hadn't, it wouldn't have continued to be passed along. And I'm sure that even as they bitched and grumbled about 'jewish bankers', most folks in say, 1860s Austria weren't about to go murdering people to lessen their frustration at not making enough money.

But we pass our beliefs on to our children. And our children's children. And it is better to teach our children to seek truth, rather than to ever believe that without evidence, without proof, they can ever know it.

So. What benefit do you get by believing God does not exist? The same thing you stand to gain by believing anything: a false sense of surety.

What benefit do you get by not believing you know the answer to a question that cannot be answered? Truth. The ability to trust your own judgement and our own honesty. And the knowledge that we are not passing down unproven rumor to impressionable minds who may, because it comes from a source they trust, take it to be The Inerrant Word of Dad. Even when we grow up and know better than to think our parents are infallible, the things we learned early on, when we thought they were... those things stay with us. Can you be sure that your child will have the intellectual strength and curiousity to think for himself if Dad Says So is one of his choices?

Give the next generation the opportunity to seek truth, too: don't weigh them down with unproven beliefs.

Remember: Atheism is not the belief in a lack of God. That's Gnostic Atheism, or Strong Atheism. Atheism is simply a lack of belief in God. That includes Weak, or Agnostic Atheism - the statement 'I don't know, and not knowing, cannot claim belief or invest trust and faith.'

The admission of ignorance is the first step in the search for truth, and ultimately it is the search that is the truest reward, the greatest benefit.

"You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons." - The Waco Kid