Explain Scandinivia
Offline There is one thing that I often bring up when posting on these forums, because I often see theists argue that atheism leads to a bleak and pointless existence, and that people will inevitably not be able to sustain an atheistic world view without becoming both nihilistic, and pessimistic at that.
Now, I wrote this response in this ( http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/15459 ) thread, but I would like to hear answers from as many theists as possible, so I will post the question here.
I am from Denmark, and I wrote this:
...to our OP:If it is true that atheism leads to a bleak nihilistic outlook, then it follows that the more atheistic a society the more unhappy, or at least uprooted and aimless a society should be.
So explain Scandinivia. Please... It is so easy to draw absolute conclussions about things you know nothing about. Have you ever been to Denmark, Norway or Sweden?
And just to clarify, I like my country very much, but that's hardly surprising; most people have an emotional attachment to the culture that has shaped their personalities, but I am not saying that Denmark is a Utopia by any strech of the imagination.
I'm just saying that Denmark is a country in which people have families, jobs, hobbies, sports, art, politics, and everything else you'd expect to find in a human society.
Sure Denmark doesn't look the same as the US, or Russia, or Indonesia, but it's still normal people doing normal things.
If atheism is so fundementally un-viable to maintain the human condition, without people falling prey to their own existential angst, then how come people don't seem at all bothered here in Scandinavia?
Now this is in no way an argument against God's existence in and of itself, nor is it intended to be. I would just like to hear theist's thoughts on this.
Well I was born an original sinner
I was spawned from original sin
And if I had a dollar bill for all the things I've done
There'd be a mountain of money piled up to my chin
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Or psychotic, or judging by the utter idiocy of his posts - doing a fairly decent job parodying Christians.
Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team
But even this experience of having 'spoken to the Lord directly' could easily be a delusion, you imagined it. Even the feeling that it was real can easily be just another illusion. Unless you can point to evidence outside your own thoughts, there is no way to distinguish delusion from truth.
Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me
From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology
But Christianity is the largest religion on Earth. Surely, everyone couldn't be deceived? Yes, I know there are a lot of false so-called Christians around, but believe me, I am a True Christian!
I'm an agnostic atheist who thinks you should love your neughbour.
BigUniverse wrote,
"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."
But, LoveThyNeigbour, you are the one in the minority, since all varieties of Christianity still only make up about a third of the world population, and you probably don't agree with all of them, you are already claiming that most people are deceived.
Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me
From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology
I guess when nearly everyone on Earth believed the planet was flat they were correct and it later bent into a sphere. And the sun used to revolve around the Earth but sometime in the 17th century it reversed. And the Buybull must be wrong when it says the antichrist will deceive nearly everyone since what the majority of people believe MUST be correct.
Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team
The Bible describe Earth as a circle, or a sphere, which means the makers of the Bible actually knew about it!
A lie cannot be kept for long. With the vast majority of Christians, we cannot be wrong.
I'm an agnostic atheist who thinks you should love your neughbour.
The Bible says a circle, which is a flat disk, not a sphere. It also has someone being taken up onto a high mountain to be shown the whole earth, which can only work if it assumed to be a flat disk, ie a circle.
The 'vast majority of Christians' still is a minority in the world, so, by your own logic, since the vast majority of people on earth disgree with you, you MUST be wrong.
Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me
From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology
Wow, a new conspiracy theory! You, know, I usually have to go back home to the fundamentalists I grew up around to hear such creative delusion. You just saved me a long drive. Thanks!
"I am that I am." - Proof that the writers of the bible were beyond stoned.
Whoa, hold it. The Bible clearly describes the Earth as a circle; it does not state "or sphere." A circle is a two-dimensional shape. It is flat.
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
A sphere is circular.
I'm an agnostic atheist who thinks you should love your neughbour.
BigUniverse wrote,
"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."
I was just discussing this with the Lord. It was after He had sucked on my Majestic Balls for a few minutes. I was confused when He stopped, because I had paid for the Full Half Hour, but He was concerned that the Ball design was closer to Rugby than Soccer. I agreed, and told Him that the issue of Soccer was resolved when Rugby was created, because the correct Shape for the Ball was finally unified with nature's previous Ball work. Those still playing Soccer fall to the ground like pansies, and rarely, if ever, score. Therefore, their Ball shape must remain a fanciful Sphere, circular in representation, seeing as they have no Balls of their own with which they might compare.
This pleased the Lord, as He had watched a Soccer game this one time, and it was almost as boring as Baseball, wherein the Balls are also circular, but much smaller.
Saint Will: no gyration without funkstification.
fabulae! nil satis firmi video quam ob rem accipere hunc mi expediat metum. - Terence
Also, Nikolaj, you come from one of the most enlightened places on earth. The confusion arises when Americans, who are conditioned from an early age to say "America is the greatest" in response to any and all geography questions, read that other countries have things that they don't. Y'know, like healthcare or culture.
[edit] since I'm not sure if anyone's going to get the reference, I'm quoting Lewis Black.
Saint Will: no gyration without funkstification.
fabulae! nil satis firmi video quam ob rem accipere hunc mi expediat metum. - Terence
*Falls over laughing*
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
A little late to be jumping in on this, but I was seriously considering immigrating to Canada or Sweden if McTheist and his running mate Caribou Barbie won.
And speaking of Barbie, when I first saw her on tv, I thought it was some kind of joke. I was convinced that somebody had paid a comedian to play a live action version of Peggy Hill from King of the Hill.
It takes a village to raise an idiot.
Save a tree, eat a vegetarian.
Sometimes " The Majority " only means that all the fools are on the same side.
I blame lutefisk and drunken danes.
Btw are you counting Iceland? cause most of them still believe in elves, not exactly rational.
ciarin.com
I know that some of them still believe in elves ( and trolls ). A friend of mine did a hitch over there while in the air force, and was accused more than once of being an elf.
It takes a village to raise an idiot.
Save a tree, eat a vegetarian.
Sometimes " The Majority " only means that all the fools are on the same side.
If Danish culture is anything to go by, and though I haven't ever been to Island myself, I believe there is a certain correlation, "believing in" elves amount to a nostalgic attraction to old folk tales. We talk alot about "nisserne på loftet" (the elves in the attic) around Christmas time and decorate our homes with nisse- parafinalia.
This also includes telling eachother, and our children, fairy tales and myths about elves*, and some, more excentric people may take those stories so far as to sound like they are implying the truth (sort of like telling an urban legend: "I once knew a guy who..." or something similar, just to spice up the story)
But I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who actually "believes" any of it, the same way the Mormon "believe" Jesus hung out with American Indians, or people who visit the Creation Museum "believe" Adam and Eve hung out with dinosaurs.
My impression of your post is that you were joking, so if you were, please disregard my much too serious reply
* : Just to clarify, the word "elf" doesn't really cover the Danish word "nisse". The distinction is small, but important. Unlike "Santa's elves" of American culture, Danish "nisser" could be translated with anything from Gremlin, Goblin, Dwarf, Sprite or Elf, and none of them would cover the concept of "nisse" completely.
Well I was born an original sinner
I was spawned from original sin
And if I had a dollar bill for all the things I've done
There'd be a mountain of money piled up to my chin
Yep, I was joking. I don't mind your serious reply though, hehe.