Can God empathize w/ doubters?

FreeThinker2012
Posts: 45
Joined: 2008-06-28
User is offlineOffline
Can God empathize w/ doubters?

I was just thinking of a question today. Bare in mind, this question / series of questions may've been asked before. Well, here it goes:

Question(s) for mono-theists:

Was God always omniscient, or did He have to acquire it [some way] over eons of years? If you say He always was/is/always will be omniscient and He knows/empathizes with everything we go through, then how can He empathize with uncertainty, lack of knowledge, or the "doubting Thomas's"?

To my knowledge, God's method of acquisition toward His omniscience is NOT discussed in either the bible or the Koran.

P.S. This is not meant to be a trick question per se; it is only intended to encourage people to think.


Cali_Athiest2
Cali_Athiest2's picture
Posts: 440
Joined: 2008-02-07
User is offlineOffline
Is the god of the bible

Is the god of the bible omniscient? If by all knowing then I would have to state flatly...... NO. It had to ask where adam and eve were after eating the magic pixie fruit for Jake's sake. Bible god didn't know men were trying to build a tower to heaven until it SAW the tower of babel. Personally, I would have loved to see the kind of ancient human engineering that was capable of reaching heaven. It must've been pretty impressive. This is one of the most absurb, of many, stories in the bible.

I can't think of one instance in the bible that discusses the exact moment god would have become all-knowing. However, if you can believe that god has always existed then it could be said god has always been omniscient. As far as empathy, I'm not quite sure the traditional view of most christians leaves room for empathy. Most christians I know believe that only by accepting jesus as your savior can you be saved. The fundamental concept of this is truly absurd that god can only save those that accept jesus.

If god is incapable of empathy then how can god be a fair judge?

"Always seek out the truth, but avoid at all costs those that claim to have found it" ANONYMOUS


darth_josh
High Level DonorHigh Level ModeratorGold Member
darth_josh's picture
Posts: 2650
Joined: 2006-02-27
User is offlineOffline
Who/Where/What/Why is this

Who/Where/What/Why is this god and why should I care about his/her/its feelings?

Atheist Books, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server, which houses Celebrity Atheists.


I AM GOD AS YOU
Superfan
Posts: 4793
Joined: 2007-09-29
User is offlineOffline
To talk about god is to talk

To talk about god is to talk about you ....


Eloise
TheistBronze Member
Eloise's picture
Posts: 1807
Joined: 2007-05-26
User is offlineOffline
FreeThinker2012 wrote:

FreeThinker2012 wrote:
Well, here it goes: Question(s) for mono-theists: Was God always omniscient, or did He have to acquire it [some way] over eons of years?

"to acquire something over Eons' is a model that inaccurately describes the universe I believe in.

FreeThinker2012 wrote:

If you say He always was/is/always will be omniscient and He knows/empathizes with everything we go through, then how can He empathize with uncertainty, lack of knowledge, or the "doubting Thomas's"?

same answer, really, because I see you are implying "having had an experience" as the criteria for empathy, that's not accurate to our universe as I come to understand. It may benefit anyone wishing to understand my position to do some background reading on timeless model[s] of the universe, however ultimately what it adds up to is that the God, in which I believe, acquaints with uncertainty and doubt first hand; in no less the fashion that a 'human' individual does the same.

Theist badge qualifier : Gnostic/Philosophical Panentheist

www.mathematicianspictures.com


FreeThinker2012
Posts: 45
Joined: 2008-06-28
User is offlineOffline
darth_josh

darth_josh wrote:

Who/Where/What/Why is this god and why should I care about his/her/its feelings?

I never thought of it that way. I'm just trying to get the theists to think outside the box; that's all.

Jesus didn't ride a donkey don't ya know, he rode an Apotasaurus!
www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/431306643/


FreeThinker2012
Posts: 45
Joined: 2008-06-28
User is offlineOffline
 "to acquire something

 

Quote:

"to acquire something over Eons' is a model that inaccurately describes the universe I believe in.

Quote:

same answer, really, because I see you are implying "having had an experience" as the criteria for empathy, that's not accurate to our universe as I come to understand. It may benefit anyone wishing to understand my position to do some background reading on timeless model[s] of the universe, however ultimately what it adds up to is that the God, in which I believe, acquaints with uncertainty and doubt first hand; in no less the fashion that a 'human' individual does the same.

I'm not trying to retract my question(s), however, the more I realize it, there's really no way in which ANYONE can ascertain how God acquired all of His omniscience; i.e. if it was a process, or an automatic 'revelation' to Him. Millions of theories can be thrown out there, but for someone to claim that they KNOW first hand how all of this happened (to me) is pretty much claiming that they were there when God made his 'debut' into existence. I know, I know: He never made His 'debut'; He just always existed, right?

 

{fixed (maybe) -aiia}

Jesus didn't ride a donkey don't ya know, he rode an Apotasaurus!
www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/431306643/


FreeThinker2012
Posts: 45
Joined: 2008-06-28
User is offlineOffline
Cali_Athiest2 wrote:   If

Cali_Athiest2 wrote:

 

If god is incapable of empathy then how can god be a fair judge?

3 words: My sentiments exactly!

In Psalms 139, it supports an omniscient god, however, as you stated, god had to ask misc. questions to others; & if that's the case, I can't bring myself to believe [I can't see how anyone can] he's omniscient!

Jesus didn't ride a donkey don't ya know, he rode an Apotasaurus!
www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/431306643/


FreeThinker2012
Posts: 45
Joined: 2008-06-28
User is offlineOffline
I AM GOD AS YOU wrote: To

I AM GOD AS YOU wrote:

To talk about god is to talk about you ....

Am I safe to assume that you think everyone/everything is God? If so, I think I see where you're going w/ that - the whole "omnipresent" thing, right?

Jesus didn't ride a donkey don't ya know, he rode an Apotasaurus!
www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/431306643/


I AM GOD AS YOU
Superfan
Posts: 4793
Joined: 2007-09-29
User is offlineOffline
To your first question, yes.

To your first question, yes. The omni words are linguistic mind twisters of many meanings, so I could say yes and no. God is what science studies and math models, philosophy linguistically summarizes, most religion dogmatizes.

  I do a lot of atheist preaching using religious jargon for fun and as an attempt to help demolish dogma, which sometimes gets me incorrectly branded as a new age thinker. But then again what exactly is new age? Heck, what exactly is a buddhist?  My head is starting to hurt ....   Alan Watts is a cool past mentor of mine.

I am a strict materialist in the sense that I think, all that is existence is a form of energy / matter doing it's thing. G awe D we are, in awe. No Master is possible as all is one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnipresence

http://contenderministries.org/newage.php

Looks interesting Eloise ---  "timeless model[s] of the universe" ....  All is NOW! My head is hurting again .... "it hurts so good"! 

http://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&channel=s&hl=en&q=timeless+model[s]+of+the+universe&btnG=Google+Search

Alan Watts -  http://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&channel=s&hl=en&q=Alan+Watts&btnG=Google+Search

    Thanks freethinker for your question .... Be extra nice to yourself. 


aiia
Superfan
aiia's picture
Posts: 1923
Joined: 2006-09-12
User is offlineOffline
FreeThinker2012 wrote:Was

FreeThinker2012 wrote:
Was God always omniscient[?]

 

It is impossible to prove whether an omnicient being is in fact omnicient. You would have to be omnicient yourself to know whether an omnicient being is omnicient.

So, in reality, this claim is a naked assertion. Whoever makes this claim is stupid and a liar.

 

 

Quote:
or did He have to acquire it

This is another sign of the insanity/stupidity of theism. If the theist answers affirmitively, he/she must explain how this being existed in the presence of time ('acquiring' involves a factorial of time) because it is the theist's claim that this being created everything and that this being is 'outside of time'.

If the theist claims this being was always omnicient then we are probably dealing with a lying deluded fool because a claim such as this is incoherent.

People who think there is something they refer to as god don't ask enough questions.


Hambydammit
High Level DonorModeratorRRS Core Member
Hambydammit's picture
Posts: 8657
Joined: 2006-10-22
User is offlineOffline
Quote:It is impossible to

Quote:
It is impossible to prove whether an omnicient being is in fact omnicient. You would have to be omnicient yourself to know whether an omnicient being is omnicient.

Or, put another way, what if god just thinks it's omniscient?  It could be mistaken.  Supposing god was mistaken about the actual dimensions of the universe, and believed it knew about every atom's location, it would be completely ignorant of the fact that there were unaccounted for atoms in a part of the universe that was completely unknown to it.

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism


FreeThinker2012
Posts: 45
Joined: 2008-06-28
User is offlineOffline
Thanks for your input & the

Thanks for your input & the links you provided. I'll have to check 'em out when I get around to it.

Jesus didn't ride a donkey don't ya know, he rode an Apotasaurus!
www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/431306643/


FreeThinker2012
Posts: 45
Joined: 2008-06-28
User is offlineOffline
Thanks for your input.

Thanks for your input. Agreed. The theists (in most cases) would probably make it up as they go along.

Jesus didn't ride a donkey don't ya know, he rode an Apotasaurus!
www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/431306643/


FreeThinker2012
Posts: 45
Joined: 2008-06-28
User is offlineOffline
Hambydammit wrote:Or, put

Hambydammit wrote:

Or, put another way, what if god just thinks it's omniscient?  It could be mistaken.  Supposing god was mistaken about the actual dimensions of the universe, and believed it knew about every atom's location, it would be completely ignorant of the fact that there were unaccounted for atoms in a part of the universe that was completely unknown to it.

I never took it to that level, but  yes; good point.

Jesus didn't ride a donkey don't ya know, he rode an Apotasaurus!
www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/431306643/


FreeThinker2012
Posts: 45
Joined: 2008-06-28
User is offlineOffline
Cali_Athiest2 wrote:It had

Cali_Athiest2 wrote:

It had to ask where adam and eve were after eating the magic pixie fruit for Jake's sake.

Found it (Gen. 3:9). 

Quote:

Bible god didn't know men were trying to build a tower to heaven until it SAW the tower of babel.

Couldn't really find it.  Is this in Gen. 11 somewhere? Do you know the exact verse?

Quote:

If god is incapable of empathy then how can god be a fair judge?

SO TRUE!!!!!

{fixed-aiia}

Jesus didn't ride a donkey don't ya know, he rode an Apotasaurus!
www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/431306643/


FreeThinker2012
Posts: 45
Joined: 2008-06-28
User is offlineOffline
I keep fuckin' up on using

I keep fuckin' up on using the quotes properly.  Ughh!!


totus_tuus
Theist
totus_tuus's picture
Posts: 516
Joined: 2007-04-23
User is offlineOffline
Yes.

Yes.


Wonko
Wonko's picture
Posts: 518
Joined: 2008-06-18
User is offlineOffline
totus_tuus

totus_tuus wrote:

Yes.

Speaking of using the quotes totus...

Were you replying to the previous post ???

OR

Answering the question: Am I really an Atheist?

 

 

he-he


FreeThinker2012
Posts: 45
Joined: 2008-06-28
User is offlineOffline
FreeThinker2012

FreeThinker2012 wrote:
Cali_Athiest2 wrote:
Bible god didn't know men were trying to build a tower to heaven until it SAW the tower of babel.

Couldn't really find it.  Is this in Gen. 11 somewhere? Do you know the exact verse?

Scratch that.  I just remembered good ole' SAB @ www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/knows.html

 {fixed aiia}

Jesus didn't ride a donkey don't ya know, he rode an Apotasaurus!
www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/431306643/


totus_tuus
Theist
totus_tuus's picture
Posts: 516
Joined: 2007-04-23
User is offlineOffline
Wonko wrote:totus_tuus

Wonko wrote:

totus_tuus wrote:

Yes.

Speaking of using the quotes totus...

Were you replying to the previous post ???

OR

Answering the question: Am I really an Atheist?

 

 

he-he

LOL!

Sorry.  I started to reply, then realized I hadn't pulled my thoughts together enough.  I musta hit the post comment button rather than just backing up.

If I ever deconvert, I promise y'all'll be the first to know.

"With its enduring appeal to the search for truth, philosophy has the great responsibility of forming thought and culture; and now it must strive resolutely to recover its original vocation." Pope John Paul II