It works for me!
Offline
Faith in Jesus works for me - it's exciting. I love the Bible and believe all of it - though there is mystery. There is mystery everywhere though, right? I am a incredibly happy believer in Jesus. I'm not a theologian, I just believe in Jesus.
I understand you can't make anybody believe in Jesus and the Bible, and I don't personally try to do that. But I highly recommend it from my experience with it. I can't get enough of the Bible or Jesus. I can't imagine trying to navigate through life without it at this point in my life.
I don't think Jesus or God is a thing you can prove to somebody. I heard about it a large percentage of my life and it didn't mean anything to me until a certain point - then that all changed.
So do you guys think that I'm fooling myself, not really happy, you don't believe me, or do you really think I can't be as happy or enlightened as you - are you evangelistic in that sense or what? What is the purpose of this site? Do you have something better to offer? If so, what is your gospel?
- Login to post comments
Offline
Photo above is from the USA Supreme Court Door. It seems that our forefathers of this great country thought the 10 Commandments were a good foundation to build on. Suggesting that the decalogue is secular morality is an interesting concept. Are you suggesting that if you were ruler for a day you would have come up with at least 6 of these (5-10)?
I have avoided posting on this tread for a long time, but I got bored and started to thumb through it. I couldn't help but respond to this old message.
1 - Those are not the ten commandments
2 - They are the original 10 bill of rights of the constitution
Proof of this is in the design work from the original artists.
3 - The forefathers (washington, jefferson, etc) were all six feet under when this building was erected in 1935.
- Login to post comments
Offline
Quote:I am too tired right now but will try to answer you anyway ..
ATTN Mr Fonzerelli
Fonzie wrote : Danatempory,
So do you believe your apology was adequate? And do you believe blacklight accepts? And what do you believe you should do if you don't believe he does? And do you believe Brian hates faith - things that can't be proved? And can you prove any of these things you believe yet claiming to be the fellowship of unbelievers?
I can tell you Any. is wrong on his "facts" BTW. But do you believe him anyway since he doesn't believe anything? And do you believe Fly's view of Christianity? Do you go find somebody who believes he believed something but now believes he doesn't and believe their view of it? Is that the way you establish what and who you believe then say you are an unbeliever?
I can only imagine the joys of being a part of this atheist bunch who fool themselves into thinking they believe what they can't prove even though
. You might think I am kidding/fibbing but there's a newly opened up Thread about an 'Atheist's defense of the Bible', havent read any of it but it is more than likely suggesting it better off in the olden days, not everyone start a local biblestudy in their area. Not playing well, havent read it. This board is always got its' surprises. Another Thread is by an Atheist who is reading Catholic Church fathers not kidding/fibbing either. So Fonzie still doesnt know what he's missing. I wanted to mention this to point out Nony brought up the third temple and temple mount And I can honestly attest the article was much longer than you'd find on your christian forums. Being on the best board on the net colors the glasses a bountiful shade of rose pink for me at times. You are just happy to be here and so relieved at the environment it makes you appreciate everyone on the board in a way. Getting back to what you asked about giving people who believed something and now dont believe something is. For me, Before I forget, What you say in derision, I consider the greatest joy, I do. I think, from your perspective, There is only the narrowest set of 'beliefs' everyone one 'shares'. Outside of that the diversity is unimaginable. What you specifically asked: Why not give you a partial list of people who were former christians and now sail under the proud banner of Atheist. Off the top of my head users like : iwbiek (fundementalist/liberal christian), tonyjeffers (evangelical), Atheistextermist (Protestant), ex-minister (protestant), harleysporters (Roman Catholic), pauljohntheskeptic (liberal Catholic), ThunderJones (Protestant), Watcher (Fundementalist), Zeeboe (raised something), Prozacdeathwish (fundementalist), Old Seer (sort of) Brian says is a theist, so she's a theist, Cpt_pineapple (deist), Cj (Protestant) Gauche (unknown) GodsUseForAMosquito(unknown) and A_Nony_Mouse (havent asked Nony ever) about a full dozen others I am too sleepy to remember. All of which are a joy. They all took the journey to belief to full on unbelievers. The standard reply is they were never Theists. That is the biggest lie out. You sit in and listen and you can hear the years of devotion and service and 'faith' they had. Everyone has his or her own cliche in our board's ecosystem. I do apologize but Im way too tired to go on I'm needing some sleep. I hope that answers part of what you want. I feel if you comment on my remarks in the way you just did. Maybe about three or four others can talk with you. My Grandpa told me a few months before he died, the last neighbors he or I should say 'we' had were the best he had ever had. Well, This board is the absolute best board on the internet hands down, nothing compares with it. I should say I have been on dozens of boards for usually a few months at the most (if that). Likewise. my Grandpa had moved a lot in various places in his lifetime. So, 'we' both have other points of reference to compare something against. Finally, I think if you keep asking the same questions over and over, it indicates you dont have a very good handle on Atheism to start with and you insist on making based like a faith and a belief for the 'Atheistic religion', hmm? This cannot be making much sense but after four years maybe you'll buy a book or something to aid the trouble in conceptualizing.
Everyone tells me Catholics and Protestants love Shakespeare , so please
allow me to share some from Henry the V then
The Play Henry V ( quote, impossible to choose only one)
O ceremony, show me but thy worth!
What is thy soul of adoration?
Art thou aught else but place, degree and form,
Creating awe and fear in other men?
Wherein thou art less happy being fear'd
Than they in fearing.
What drink'st thou oft, instead of homage sweet,
But poison'd flattery? O, be sick, great greatness,
And bid thy ceremony give thee cure!
Think'st thou the fiery fever will go out
With titles blown from adulation?
Will it give place to flexure and low bending?
Canst thou, when thou command'st the beggar's knee,
Command the health of it? No, thou proud dream,
That play'st so subtly with a king's repose;
I am a king that find thee,..
So, if a son that is by his father sent about
merchandise do sinfully miscarry upon the sea, the
imputation of his wickedness by your rule, should be
imposed upon his father that sent him: or if a
servant, under his master's command transporting a
sum of money, be assailed by robbers and die in
many irreconciled iniquities, you may call the
business of the master the author of the servant's
damnation: but this is not so: the king is not
bound to answer the particular endings of his
soldiers, the father of his son, nor the master of
his servant; for they purpose not their death, when
they purpose their services.
That he which hath no stomach to this fight,
Let him depart; his passport shall be made
And crowns for convoy put into his purse:
We would not die in that man's company
That fears his fellowship to die with us.
This day is called the feast of Crispian:
He that outlives this day, and comes safe home,
Will stand a tip-toe when the day is named,
And rouse him at the name of Crispian.
He that shall live this day, and see old age,
Will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbours,
And say 'To-morrow is Saint Crispian:'
Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars.
And say 'These wounds I had on Crispin's day.'
Old men forget: yet all shall be forgot,
But he'll remember with advantages
What feats he did that day: then shall our names.
Familiar in his mouth as household words
Harry the king, Bedford and Exeter,
Warwick and Talbot, Salisbury and Gloucester,
Be in their flowing cups freshly remember'd.
This story shall the good man teach his son;
And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by,
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be remember'd;
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition:
And gentlemen in England now a-bed
Shall think themselves accursed they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.
Defy us to our worst: for, as I am a soldier,
A name that in my thoughts becomes me best,
If I begin the battery once again,
I will not leave the half-achieved Harfleur
Till in her ashes she lie buried.
The gates of mercy shall be all shut up,
And the flesh'd soldier, rough and hard of heart,
In liberty of bloody hand shall range
With conscience wide as hell, mowing like grass
Your fresh-fair virgins and your flowering infants.
What is it then to me, if impious war,
Array'd in flames like to the prince of fiends,
Do, with his smirch'd complexion, all fell feats
Enlink'd to waste and desolation?
What is't to me, when you yourselves are cause,
If your pure maidens fall into the hand
Of hot and forcing violation?
What rein can hold licentious wickedness
When down the hill he holds his fierce career?
We may as bootless spend our vain command
Upon the enraged soldiers in their spoil
As send precepts to the leviathan
To come ashore. Therefore, you men of Harfleur,
Take pity of your town and of your people,
Whiles yet my soldiers are in my command;
Whiles yet the cool and temperate wind of grace
O'erblows the filthy and contagious clouds
Of heady murder, spoil and villany!!
If not, why, in a moment look to see
The blind and bloody soldier with foul hand
Defile the locks of your shrill-shrieking daughters;
Your fathers taken by the silver beards,
And their most reverend heads dash'd to the walls,
Your naked infants spitted upon pikes,
Whiles the mad mothers with their howls confused
Do break the clouds,.. What say you!?!? Will you
yield, and thus avoid, Or, guilty in defence, be
thus destroy'd?
..when lenity and cruelty play for a kingdom, the
gentler gamester is the soonest winner.
ACT VI Now entertain conjecture of a time
When creeping murmur and the poring dark
Fills the wide vessel of the universe.
From camp to camp through the foul womb of night
The hum of either army stilly sounds,
That the fixed sentinels almost receive
The secret whispers of each other's watch:
Fire answers fire, and through their paly flames
Each battle sees the other's umber'd face;
Steed threatens steed, in high and boastful neighs
Piercing the night's dull ear, and from the tents
The armourers, accomplishing the knights,
With busy hammers closing rivets up,
Give dreadful note of preparation:
The country cocks do crow, the clocks do toll,
And the third hour of drowsy morning name.
Proud of their numbers and secure in soul,
The confident and over-lusty French
Do the low-rated English play at dice;
And chide the cripple tardy-gaited night
Who, like a foul and ugly witch, doth limp
So tediously away. The poor condemned English,
Like sacrifices, by their watchful fires
Sit patiently and inly ruminate
The morning's danger, and their gesture sad
Investing lank-lean; cheeks and war-worn coats
Presenteth them unto the gazing moon
So many horrid ghosts. O now, who will behold
The royal captain of this ruin'd band
Walking from watch to watch, from tent to tent,
Let him cry 'Praise and glory on his head!'
For forth he goes and visits all his host.
Bids them good morrow with a modest smile
And calls them brothers, friends and countrymen.
Upon his royal face there is no note
How dread an army hath enrounded him;
Nor doth he dedicate one jot of colour
Unto the weary and all-watched night,
But freshly looks and over-bears attaint
With cheerful semblance and sweet majesty;
That every wretch, pining and pale before,
Beholding him, plucks comfort from his looks:
A largess universal like the sun
His liberal eye doth give to every one,
Thawing cold fear, that mean and gentle all,
Behold, as may unworthiness define,
A little touch of Harry in the night ..
And far too many to add . .
Ms Danatempory,
I have seen evidence atheists are able to think, imagine, type and manage general things. You are adding the concept that they have "principles" and "deep thoughts" about "concepts" that are a match for what the theist says is missing - and the spinning of their tale is off somewhere happening behind the "Green Door" and I don't know what I'm missing. Concepts, principles, deep stuff, exciting stuff, living stuff to die for exciting you like nothing else ever though you are too tired to know the way to the city like a hummingbird coming over the gulf and plummeting down to the last flap exhausted.
But I think what we have here is the accusation (valid) which is drawn, aimed and let fly against false religion (not however living faith in Christ) having become a "form", a "shell", a "veneer" (as you quote also from BS also true about the atheist "form", "shell", "veneer", "front) - "wherefore art you Danatemporary"? Are you in a living breathing atheist body of unbelievers not believing anybody unless they don't believe anybody (does that bring you together and become enough to build a relationship on?), not believing any principle unproven - and which principle is proven? Do you have any proven principles to share, the ABC's of atheism, the 123, the working atheist model (I'm talking other than recess where the straw man Christian is annihilated). If school is on and the teacher is in then go to the blackboard (the other half at your seats) and draw this out for me. What are your principles proven if you have them and how do you prove them without faith?
Brian says he hates faith and instead goes with only things proven. You are delighted, so bring me the fruits of your delight.
- Login to post comments
Oh for pete's sake...
There's an essential difference between having an "unsuccessful and unsatisfying discussion" and trying to talk to an unrepentant, pathological liar.
I'm tired of trying to explain to you exactly what that difference is, so I'm just going to let you experience it by yourself.
Enjoy.
If you don't listen to me, you're not having a discussion with me. It's not the point if he lied or not, but if he thinks he lied or not.
Which is exactly what's going to happen, when he finally notices you again. By George, you finally got it !
Well, I hope for your sake that he doesn't leave you hanging much longer, and gives you the "not a discussion" you've been craving. Like I said, have fun.
Luca -
What do you want to discuss? (there is some static on the line)
Fonzie you are at most wonderful juncture, where life is new again. I was wondering if you are going to be asking questions again. And if so, will they be about anything other than what Atheists believe (serious question, no mocking or sarcasm in the least bit intended)
Toldya this would work.
Have fun, Luca. No charge.
Danatemporary,
Yes, life is new indeed every day and lived entirely apart from location zero. I have seen guys think retirement the be all end all of freedom - all restraints removed, all weights unhitched, all chains broken, rudderless freedom (if you will) afloat in the sea of perilous adventure, a universe of potential limitless free floating ever expanding exciting ideas but none within the realm of possibility or their doing such that there is a suspicion of the value of gravity's restraint and sight's guidance and the pain of light's fire and firing thereof and Company's company. There are no markers, no poles to count, no walkers to walk therewith, no leaders to lead where to, no signs to indicate movement or destiny thereof - men look them like trees walking when not stumbling over unknown vaporous objects still unknown and unappealing. Nothing accomplished.
While I just today consider doing a small thing or two - stopping to smell a rose on my way out. Do you like the smell of a rose Danatemporary? Can you name a better?
Well you have to cope with the static you generated, to put it bluntly. Anyway...
At the beginning I did not have much will to discuss, but thinking about it question were born pretty easily. Pretty much 99.9% of the thread is still unanswered.
So just a taste of 'em.
Often in response to a science-y answer you'll say: "yes, but God did that, so it doesn't matter"; what I think is that you apparently don't understand why that answer has been given to you. I'll put it in another way: how could God be the answer if not only you can't verify it and it goes well beyond our daily experience, but being the nature of this being you can't tell his motivations?
You say you get bored easily. How come you've been here for this many years?
How do you want atheists to answer you? You have not made clear you standards.
Probably the more concerning question would be your wanting an "atheist reason to live". What would you accept as an answer? (not the answer itself, but the type of it, categories, something)
Would you describe your "unresolved guilt/conscience issue"?
Another argument from our interrupted discussion was your judging of people based on what you read from the bible. What do you do when you are wrong about that?
I think I alredy said that you focus extremely on people, but why should they matter? Why does it matter if I believe in what you say or not? Why at a certain point you would 'decide' that the one you're arguing with "will not understand"?
You need to be explicit, A LOT more explicit. Every your answer should be an essay considering the diversity of experiences you allude to, the implications. So instead do the reverse: keep it simple, express facts, use unanbiguous words (so metaphors are out). Maaan I wish you could do that.
Do you need something unchanging to believe to? Why?
Last: what are you able to do with your faith? What can you do for others? Have you ever been able to change someone's life? (I don't mean as in "completely alter", just a bit different)
Why yes I do like roses. I seem to enjoy finding out impossible things, a thing I was never consciously knew about myself of until we had a Thread titled: Origin of Language = Epic Evolution/Atheist FAIL! At one point I went on an image search for roses when involved in the Thread,. A theist who is an Evangelical introduced the Thread and it really ended up about Babel in the Bible. The OP found a way to argue herself into a corner almost from the inception but certainly by page three. I not sure anyone had the boldness to tell her though. I sent myself on the task to look for a rose image to send to the OP from the net, for an appropriate rose image to send to her. Undoubted she was complaining of feeling overwhelmed and insisted on not devoting enough time to TWD's own thread (it was her thread). Although repeatedly reminded of what was expected. I would invite you to check it out but I know it's against your religion (used in the general expression manner) to go to another Theist's Threads on this board. When you have the time at least read pages 8-11 of the other thread. Anyhow, looking for an appropriate rose colour, I settled on both white and blue roses. True blue roses are not found in nature, and the way my mind works has many layers of meaning. But, if you follow the thread it was initially sent a token of kindness. White roses were included in the image so you know. After sending the image of this rose, I wanted to know how close breeders had come to breeding a true 'blue', and more as a visual than genetic study, but I sought that. From Aspects of TWD's thread about Language (i.e. - knowing about the first language, before writing). And my insistence in knowing how close they had come to breeding a blue rose showed me something about myself. I furthermore have a reason I should Thank TWD. Because due to looking up a few things surrounding the topic, I found out about a book that I now plan on pre-ordering. The thing is, it not even known about yet, if she hadnt introduced the Thread, I would have never ran across it, though I am a seasoned pro when it comes to looking up titles. This Pre-order, doesn't come up in searches, so I would have completely missed. Speaking of, there is another thread about the Second Temple very recently you will miss.
Retirement is a two-edged sword. Most longingly look forward to retirement, although they'll often end up with too much time on their hands. If you are able to fill some of the time by coming here in your case if I read correctly, then that serves its' role. But, yes I do like roses (read comments above).
You're going to order that book ? Cool. I was hoping someone would. If you learn anything interesting, do share.
I kinda feel like thanking TWD as well for bringing up the topic, as the current scientific research being done there seems fascinating.
so stay focused
Oh Luca, you poor, naive sweetheart.
Kudos for trying, though.
I can vouch for that. I was about 14 when I first came here, and firmly on the fence about the whole theist/atheist thing. It wasn't so much Meph on his own that convinced me to make the jump to atheism, but the contrast between him and the people he was talking to. To be precise, the contrast between the way he treated them, and the way they treated him. Let's just say that it did not do him any favors.
But what was most impressive, and what I'm still grateful for to this day, is that his behavior and posts here managed to convert a very good friend of mine to atheism. I'd mailed my friend the link to the first thread, as an answer to his repeated question, "what's your problem with christians ?", and to be honest, I didn't really expect it to have any effect at all, but it made him see my side of it. I guess he recognized some of Meph's tone and tactics in himself, and didn't like it very much.
So yeah, Meph certainly has been a "successful GPS", in his own way. It's kinda awkward, though, trying to express your gratitude to someone who takes pride in tuning you out.
I recognised fairly quickly, after starting to debate online, that often the greatest weapon against theist arguments is the arguments themselves, coupled with the standard theist arrogance and belittlement.
A significant number of theists do the whole biased reinforcement thing, where they consciously or unconsciously ignore posts/information they don't like or agree with. Many of these people have never really thought about what they believe, having used this tactic all their lives.
As they generally only read theist responses, the tone of those responses can be an eye opener to the problems with their beliefs that they never analysed before.
So whenever a theist gets completely owned, shorts out, and starts stumbling around with ad hominems and blatantly stupid arguments that even a 6 year old would 'wtf' at, we've actually got a theist who's helping us convert the on-the-shelf lurkers.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
re :: To high functioning autism sufferers . . .
One thing I've never understood is why we are supposed to be subject to the whims of visitors to the board? I dont think they realize consciously just how irritating and emotionally draining they can be, if you factor time into the equation. The clock didnt stop for them because they are on a mission. Sometimes the strange impression is they arent trying hard enough to relate to others. Does it count, anymore? This almost weird-azz mentality develops(in all cases). Where they arent able to step back and realize people at one point or another people begin to lose patience (with them). On this board words are exchanged but it does promise to remedy a thing. There is no emotional meter like a MIT Computer Lab experiment gone mad, that let's people gauge when someone has had more than enough of-a certain kind of behaviour on their part. Made extremely hard to anticipate, in an Online forum. They feel perfectly justified in continuing as they are. To be honest, I used to think I had a lot of patience but this goes on for weeks and usually months. People talking past one another. With no real hope of getting any behavioural change 'ever' in sight. Frustrations ever growing on both sides. While they are just exploiting the situation. While nothing is accomplished. In this case, People are expected to know the reference ? Even if you do know the reference. It's still incredibly difficult to decipher as if there is some defiance against cogent message giving, or some attempt at profundity. Hard to tell. Even harder to care. They'll act like high-functioning autistics, with no capacity to understanding how this will become to others, when it's more of a engrained behaviour on their part,(applying to all!). Where's the empathy ? I know it is a shock to learn the world doesnt revolve around-you, in your 'Me' universe nor is it about people rubbing your damn belly. Empathy, please. It not about your whims, was my real thought. Thanx.
From the John Wycliffe version
(the Wycliffe Bible) John Ch. 16 -- .
29 His disciples said to him, Lo! now thou speakest openly and plainly, and thou sayest no proverb.
do little to nothing and keep doing it - Christianity in a nutshell. Just believe and you don't need to do anything.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Still, most high-functioning autistics don't speak in ridiculous metaphors like Fonzie does. They also don't tend to lie about their identity like Fonzie did.
I am seeing a tread. It looks as if people do not like the use of metaphors. Finding it difficult to follow the intended meaning. You run the risk of seeming only self-indulgent, not caring about the means or the outcome. And by extension might be considered unloving in the attempt. I only just barely mentioned, the knowledge of the bible isn't as prevalent. The board may have diversified in the last few years. There arent as many former-christians as there once were, but I have no data to verify this so it may be more prudent to withdraw that. The answer may be obvious to him alone; how could you even tell ?
ps -- This is going way over-board in trying to relate. Some puzzles are interesting and some are frankly not.
Wow, I seriously don't understand half of what you said there... Perhaps you could be a bit clearer?
Wait, I really do have high-functioning autism, and I would be extremely ashamed if I were to ever act like Fonzie.
Though...I suppose I may act like that without realizing it. *shudder* Please tell me if I ever start to act like that, ok?
Basically, he's saying : atheism bad, theism good.
Meph quite enjoys these "building a house" metaphors, as that was his job before he retired.
It's a false analogy, of course. But what matters to Meph is that it sounds/looks good. Unfortunately, he has a point there. Flowery language can be more attractive than cold, hard facts.
(What's so tragic about this, is that we could easily have a pleasant and educational discussion with Meph, if the subject was actual carpentry or running home electrical wiring)
No worries. If you did, you'd know.
Ah, I see. Wait, so he's actually an adult? What kind of adult knowingly acts like he does, without feeling ashamed!?
Oh ok, thanks.
He's a grandfather with 4 or 5 grandkids. He came here because of the blasphemy challenge, hoping to offer the misguided youth an alternative to atheism, by offering himself as a shining example of living through christ.
He pretends to be looking for a discussion, but actually he's only looking to express his personal conviction. IOW, he's testifying. That's why trying to debate him can be quite frustrating at times. He genuinely doesn't care what we say, and has admitted as much.
Man, I'm so relieved that I'm not the only one who wonders about that.
blacklight915 wrote:One who self medicates with lithium without getting blood work done?
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Ah, I think I understand now, thank you Anonymouse.
Well, Fonzie, you have provided quite an example: an adult man who lied about both his identity and his intentions in an effort to spread his belief system.
Yea, I often wonder the same about people like Ray Comfort...
I totally forgot about that.
Meph, don't bother telling me how you think my concern is insincere (I'm not going to repeat my reasons for caring), but I really hope you're managing to keep your bipolar under control with the limited means at your disposal.
Ironically, In a way I may have only choose the word autism due to it being the least insulting condition I could think of off the top of my head, not in anyway accurately describing autism nor Fonzie, major opps !!
Important thing to understand about my remark is, blacklight. I humbly submit that 'unempathic' should have been my word choice. Which now that I think of it is the wrong thing to say. Garrison keeler radio personality made a joke about autism. Which I dont know if it would be offensive but I found mildly amusing. He said as a boy, he was shy and had glass. Somewhat subdued, often alone and off to myself immerced in his interests and books. Now-a-days they would have said I was autistic (his current wife roared in laughter). Looking at it from the perspective of trying to be the least insulting, you might say autism is pretty benign but that is specially pleading on my part. Obviously I made a link to empathy and the capacity to feel empathy in my remarks. Sorry for any bad analogy to autism. Most people with high functioning autism, know they have autism and go to great lengths to find ways to interact with people. Always overcoming. In other words they are constantly finding ways to compensate and so by overcome, people with autism are actually sometimes better individuals than 'normal' folks. Fonzie is purposefully doing what he is doing, I think it gets into a set of tactics. Never thought of how potentially very insulting on my part it was to do what I did, (it was one of the more thoughtless remarks in what I did). If I were like you and someone compared me to Fonzie I would have immediately gotten tweaked about it. Fonzie is in no way like you. You are a joy, Fonzie is a trial, Okay? He is in no way like you have shown yourself to be on the board. I am wildly guessing in all the little knowledge I have. Like with you, You are always striving, he is not putting effort consciously and unconsciously. You are 'always' putting effort. You understand. Ironically, In a way, I may have only choose the word autism due to it being the least insulting condition I could think of off the T0P of my head. Pretty much is at the core of the remarks.. Fonzie in no away reflects you. That is to laugh. I was stuck between a rock and a hard place with him. No doubt that is it due to my personality seeks to offend people unnecessarily. But Apparently that didnt extend to people with autism somehow. All the the real conditions that could actually describe Fonzie as were too offensive ever say and I unconsciously took them off the table (an idiom). Sorry about that. Dont think he in anyway reflects people with autism, it was the least offensive thought that came up.
Danatempory,
So do you believe your apology was adequate? And do you believe blacklight accepts? And what do you believe you should do if you don't believe he does? And do you believe Brian hates faith - things that can't be proved? And can you prove any of these things you believe yet claiming to be the fellowship of unbelievers?
I can tell you Any. is wrong on his "facts" BTW. But do you believe him anyway since he doesn't believe anything? And do you believe Fly's view of Christianity? Do you go find somebody who believes he believed something but now believes he doesn't and believe their view of it? Is that the way you establish what and who you believe then say you are an unbeliever?
I can only imagine the joys of being a part of this atheist bunch who fool themselves into thinking they believe what they can't prove even though it's wrong only if the one telling them also believes what he can't prove which is also wrong and he got from other people (himself also not believing anything) who don't believe they believe anything either - which all together goes nowhere ......
So bring on more evidence of that fact for all to see.
Uhm, she didn't mention Brian Sapient, JC or me in that post.
Btw, what "facts" am I wrong about ? You never mentioned those to me.
Evidence of what fact ?
Look, you can't just use words because you think they sound impressive. They need to refer to something. So what fact do you need evidence of ?
Could you be a bit more precise ? What exactly do they "think they believe that they can't prove even though it's wrong...etc" ?
You know, the reason why this "all together goes nowhere", might be because you can never bring yourself to clearly express just what the heck it is you're talking about.
Her apology was more than adequate, and I absolutely accept it. Worry about apologizing for your own actions first, Fonzie.
Thank you very much for the apology/clarification, Dana; I really appreciate it.
ATTN Mr Fonzerelli
Fonzie wrote : Danatempory,
So do you believe your apology was adequate? And do you believe blacklight accepts? And what do you believe you should do if you don't believe he does? And do you believe Brian hates faith - things that can't be proved? And can you prove any of these things you believe yet claiming to be the fellowship of unbelievers?
I can tell you Any. is wrong on his "facts" BTW. But do you believe him anyway since he doesn't believe anything? And do you believe Fly's view of Christianity? Do you go find somebody who believes he believed something but now believes he doesn't and believe their view of it? Is that the way you establish what and who you believe then say you are an unbeliever?
I can only imagine the joys of being a part of this atheist bunch who fool themselves into thinking they believe what they can't prove even though
. You might think I am kidding/fibbing but there's a newly opened up Thread about an 'Atheist's defense of the Bible', havent read any of it but it is more than likely suggesting it better off in the olden days, not everyone start a local biblestudy in their area. Not playing well, havent read it. This board is always got its' surprises. Another Thread is by an Atheist who is reading Catholic Church fathers not kidding/fibbing either. So Fonzie still doesnt know what he's missing. I wanted to mention this to point out Nony brought up the third temple and temple mount And I can honestly attest the article was much longer than you'd find on your christian forums. Being on the best board on the net colors the glasses a bountiful shade of rose pink for me at times. You are just happy to be here and so relieved at the environment it makes you appreciate everyone on the board in a way. Getting back to what you asked about giving people who believed something and now dont believe something is. For me, Before I forget, What you say in derision, I consider the greatest joy, I do. I think, from your perspective, There is only the narrowest set of 'beliefs' everyone one 'shares'. Outside of that the diversity is unimaginable. What you specifically asked: Why not give you a partial list of people who were former christians and now sail under the proud banner of Atheist. Off the top of my head users like : iwbiek (fundementalist/liberal christian), tonyjeffers (evangelical), Atheistextermist (Protestant), ex-minister (protestant), harleysporters (Roman Catholic), pauljohntheskeptic (liberal Catholic), ThunderJones (Protestant), Watcher (Fundementalist), Zeeboe (raised something), Prozacdeathwish (fundementalist), Old Seer (sort of) Brian says is a theist, so she's a theist, Cpt_pineapple (deist), Cj (Protestant) Gauche (unknown) GodsUseForAMosquito(unknown) and A_Nony_Mouse (havent asked Nony ever) about a full dozen others I am too sleepy to remember. All of which are a joy. They all took the journey to belief to full on unbelievers. The standard reply is they were never Theists. That is the biggest lie out. You sit in and listen and you can hear the years of devotion and service and 'faith' they had. Everyone has his or her own cliche in our board's ecosystem. I do apologize but Im way too tired to go on I'm needing some sleep. I hope that answers part of what you want. I feel if you comment on my remarks in the way you just did. Maybe about three or four others can talk with you. My Grandpa told me a few months before he died, the last neighbors he or I should say 'we' had were the best he had ever had. Well, This board is the absolute best board on the internet hands down, nothing compares with it. I should say I have been on dozens of boards for usually a few months at the most (if that). Likewise. my Grandpa had moved a lot in various places in his lifetime. So, 'we' both have other points of reference to compare something against. Finally, I think if you keep asking the same questions over and over, it indicates you dont have a very good handle on Atheism to start with and you insist on making based like a faith and a belief for the 'Atheistic religion', hmm? This cannot be making much sense but after four years maybe you'll buy a book or something to aid the trouble in conceptualizing.
Everyone tells me Catholics and Protestants love Shakespeare , so please
allow me to share some from Henry the V then
The Play Henry V ( quote, impossible to choose only one)
O ceremony, show me but thy worth!
What is thy soul of adoration?
Art thou aught else but place, degree and form,
Creating awe and fear in other men?
Wherein thou art less happy being fear'd
Than they in fearing.
What drink'st thou oft, instead of homage sweet,
But poison'd flattery? O, be sick, great greatness,
And bid thy ceremony give thee cure!
Think'st thou the fiery fever will go out
With titles blown from adulation?
Will it give place to flexure and low bending?
Canst thou, when thou command'st the beggar's knee,
Command the health of it? No, thou proud dream,
That play'st so subtly with a king's repose;
I am a king that find thee,..
So, if a son that is by his father sent about
merchandise do sinfully miscarry upon the sea, the
imputation of his wickedness by your rule, should be
imposed upon his father that sent him: or if a
servant, under his master's command transporting a
sum of money, be assailed by robbers and die in
many irreconciled iniquities, you may call the
business of the master the author of the servant's
damnation: but this is not so: the king is not
bound to answer the particular endings of his
soldiers, the father of his son, nor the master of
his servant; for they purpose not their death, when
they purpose their services.
That he which hath no stomach to this fight,
Let him depart; his passport shall be made
And crowns for convoy put into his purse:
We would not die in that man's company
That fears his fellowship to die with us.
This day is called the feast of Crispian:
He that outlives this day, and comes safe home,
Will stand a tip-toe when the day is named,
And rouse him at the name of Crispian.
He that shall live this day, and see old age,
Will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbours,
And say 'To-morrow is Saint Crispian:'
Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars.
And say 'These wounds I had on Crispin's day.'
Old men forget: yet all shall be forgot,
But he'll remember with advantages
What feats he did that day: then shall our names.
Familiar in his mouth as household words
Harry the king, Bedford and Exeter,
Warwick and Talbot, Salisbury and Gloucester,
Be in their flowing cups freshly remember'd.
This story shall the good man teach his son;
And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by,
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be remember'd;
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition:
And gentlemen in England now a-bed
Shall think themselves accursed they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.
Defy us to our worst: for, as I am a soldier,
A name that in my thoughts becomes me best,
If I begin the battery once again,
I will not leave the half-achieved Harfleur
Till in her ashes she lie buried.
The gates of mercy shall be all shut up,
And the flesh'd soldier, rough and hard of heart,
In liberty of bloody hand shall range
With conscience wide as hell, mowing like grass
Your fresh-fair virgins and your flowering infants.
What is it then to me, if impious war,
Array'd in flames like to the prince of fiends,
Do, with his smirch'd complexion, all fell feats
Enlink'd to waste and desolation?
What is't to me, when you yourselves are cause,
If your pure maidens fall into the hand
Of hot and forcing violation?
What rein can hold licentious wickedness
When down the hill he holds his fierce career?
We may as bootless spend our vain command
Upon the enraged soldiers in their spoil
As send precepts to the leviathan
To come ashore. Therefore, you men of Harfleur,
Take pity of your town and of your people,
Whiles yet my soldiers are in my command;
Whiles yet the cool and temperate wind of grace
O'erblows the filthy and contagious clouds
Of heady murder, spoil and villany!!
If not, why, in a moment look to see
The blind and bloody soldier with foul hand
Defile the locks of your shrill-shrieking daughters;
Your fathers taken by the silver beards,
And their most reverend heads dash'd to the walls,
Your naked infants spitted upon pikes,
Whiles the mad mothers with their howls confused
Do break the clouds,.. What say you!?!? Will you
yield, and thus avoid, Or, guilty in defence, be
thus destroy'd?
..when lenity and cruelty play for a kingdom, the
gentler gamester is the soonest winner.
ACT VI Now entertain conjecture of a time
When creeping murmur and the poring dark
Fills the wide vessel of the universe.
From camp to camp through the foul womb of night
The hum of either army stilly sounds,
That the fixed sentinels almost receive
The secret whispers of each other's watch:
Fire answers fire, and through their paly flames
Each battle sees the other's umber'd face;
Steed threatens steed, in high and boastful neighs
Piercing the night's dull ear, and from the tents
The armourers, accomplishing the knights,
With busy hammers closing rivets up,
Give dreadful note of preparation:
The country cocks do crow, the clocks do toll,
And the third hour of drowsy morning name.
Proud of their numbers and secure in soul,
The confident and over-lusty French
Do the low-rated English play at dice;
And chide the cripple tardy-gaited night
Who, like a foul and ugly witch, doth limp
So tediously away. The poor condemned English,
Like sacrifices, by their watchful fires
Sit patiently and inly ruminate
The morning's danger, and their gesture sad
Investing lank-lean; cheeks and war-worn coats
Presenteth them unto the gazing moon
So many horrid ghosts. O now, who will behold
The royal captain of this ruin'd band
Walking from watch to watch, from tent to tent,
Let him cry 'Praise and glory on his head!'
For forth he goes and visits all his host.
Bids them good morrow with a modest smile
And calls them brothers, friends and countrymen.
Upon his royal face there is no note
How dread an army hath enrounded him;
Nor doth he dedicate one jot of colour
Unto the weary and all-watched night,
But freshly looks and over-bears attaint
With cheerful semblance and sweet majesty;
That every wretch, pining and pale before,
Beholding him, plucks comfort from his looks:
A largess universal like the sun
His liberal eye doth give to every one,
Thawing cold fear, that mean and gentle all,
Behold, as may unworthiness define,
A little touch of Harry in the night ..
And far too many to add . .