Bejing Olypic opening cerimonies

Brian37
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Bejing Olypic opening cerimonies

Ok, I am not much on pomp and circumstance. And I have seen in my 42 years tons of "opening" cerimonies for sporting events and otherwise.

I am an NFL fan and I have to say that this year's Olympics opening schools anything in history that I have scene in any sport.

China schooled the world as far as presentation. There is not one Super Bowl halftime show that would come close to what I saw tonight.

If anyone else watched the opening, tell me I am wrong? I have never seen such a display in cordantion and complexity and design as far as a sporting event.

 

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Yes, I saw the Olympic

Yes, I saw the Olympic opening ceremony as well, along with about 4 billion other people. I have never seen anything like it, it was absolutely astounding. Imagine how much fun it must have been to have been one of the people designing the opening ceremony and the stadium and being told "You have a budget of 3 billion US dollars and access to 15,000 performers. Make something happen".

"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.

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Brian37 wrote:China schooled

Brian37 wrote:

China schooled the world as far as presentation. There is not one Super Bowl halftime show that would come close to what I saw tonight.

... so they flashed both of Janet jacksons boobs? o_O *shrug* those damn clever asians!

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Doomed Soul , is fun soul

Doomed Soul , is fun soul ....

  And so who thinks we can't promptly change the world for the better ? I am an optimist, tired of pessimists. Imagine ....


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I didn't watch it. Partly

I didn't watch it. Partly because I was watching Russian tanks rolling into Georgia instead, and partly because I don't think a country with such an appalling human rights record as China should be allowed to host an Olympic Games. This is Berlin 1936 and Moscow 1980 all over again.


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I AM GOD AS YOU wrote:Doomed

I AM GOD AS YOU wrote:

Doomed Soul , is fun soul ....

  And so who thinks we can't promptly change the world for the better ? I am an optimist, tired of pessimists. Imagine ....

My first thought when I saw all those people from different countries was: why can't it be just that easy to get along and have fun. I told my husband and he just laughed at me... Smiling

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Jacob Cordingley wrote:I

Jacob Cordingley wrote:

I didn't watch it. Partly because I was watching Russian tanks rolling into Georgia instead, and partly because I don't think a country with such an appalling human rights record as China should be allowed to host an Olympic Games. This is Berlin 1936 and Moscow 1980 all over again.

So we should punish the entire population for it's opressive government? You cannot honestly tell me that every single Chinese preformer or Chinese athelete agrees with everything their government does.

America has had it's share of opression of blacks and women, and even today, even if not openly violent still socially oppresses people. An atheist cant get elected president in America and cant openly run for office in most places.

If you are looking for a utopia for the world, you wont find it. This continuing event allows some sort of connection, no matter how breif that puts issues aside. It allows for the chance that that common ground can break the ice in the future.

Chinese people are still human beings and I don't think the entire population should be punished because we don't like what the government does.

Why cherry pick? We should also bann Saudi Arabia because they don't allow female atheletes.

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Renee Obsidianwords wrote:I

Renee Obsidianwords wrote:

I AM GOD AS YOU wrote:

Doomed Soul , is fun soul ....

  And so who thinks we can't promptly change the world for the better ? I am an optimist, tired of pessimists. Imagine ....

My first thought when I saw all those people from different countries was: why can't it be just that easy to get along and have fun. I told my husband and he just laughed at me... Smiling

Actually I even like the fact that the Berlin Olympics took place because Hitler was so anti black and I just bet that burned his stash that a "subhuman" beat his pure white race.

But yea I agree, I wish it could be that easy to leave the politics and religion aside. I think the Olympics is an ongoing attempt to bridge those gaps.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Renee Obsidianwords wrote:I

Renee Obsidianwords wrote:

I AM GOD AS YOU wrote:

Doomed Soul , is fun soul ....

  And so who thinks we can't promptly change the world for the better ? I am an optimist, tired of pessimists. Imagine ....

My first thought when I saw all those people from different countries was: why can't it be just that easy to get along and have fun. I told my husband and he just laughed at me... Smiling

 

That would be great, but i think nuclear war is much more likely.

 

And yea i'm downloading the opening ceremonie right now, but those 27gb will take some time to download Smiling


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Brian37 wrote:So we should

Brian37 wrote:

So we should punish the entire population for it's opressive government? You cannot honestly tell me that every single Chinese preformer or Chinese athelete agrees with everything their government does.

I doubt the chinese population would really be upset if it were pointed out that they were beaten in the streets, starved to death, and lied to from their own news run media, not given fair trials, not allowed to disagree with closed government decisions...

 In a similar situation, I would rather be fed than watch Germany play soccer with Italy.

Brian37 wrote:
America has had it's share of opression of blacks and women, and even today, even if not openly violent still socially oppresses people. An atheist cant get elected president in America and cant openly run for office in most places.

If you are looking for a utopia for the world, you wont find it. This continuing event allows some sort of connection, no matter how breif that puts issues aside. It allows for the chance that that common ground can break the ice in the future.

The glass ceiling and being beaten with a hose in a hole filled with forty degree water while your family wonders why you haven't come home from work on time are hardly comparable.  I'm not looking for a utopia, I would settle for 'not fascist'.  

 

Brian37 wrote:
Chinese people are still human beings and I don't think the entire population should be punished because we don't like what the government does.

Why cherry pick? We should also bann Saudi Arabia because they don't allow female atheletes.

 

I think you're onto something...  lets widen the brush...  any country that removes a part of a humans body against their will and at great risk to personal health should not be allowed to host an international event of 'peace and unity'

If I have gained anything by damning myself, it is that I no longer have anything to fear. - JP Sartre


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Brian37 wrote:Jacob

Brian37 wrote:

Jacob Cordingley wrote:

I didn't watch it. Partly because I was watching Russian tanks rolling into Georgia instead, and partly because I don't think a country with such an appalling human rights record as China should be allowed to host an Olympic Games. This is Berlin 1936 and Moscow 1980 all over again.

So we should punish the entire population for it's opressive government? You cannot honestly tell me that every single Chinese preformer or Chinese athelete agrees with everything their government does.

America has had it's share of opression of blacks and women, and even today, even if not openly violent still socially oppresses people. An atheist cant get elected president in America and cant openly run for office in most places.

If you are looking for a utopia for the world, you wont find it. This continuing event allows some sort of connection, no matter how breif that puts issues aside. It allows for the chance that that common ground can break the ice in the future.

Chinese people are still human beings and I don't think the entire population should be punished because we don't like what the government does.

Why cherry pick? We should also bann Saudi Arabia because they don't allow female atheletes.

I think you've misinterpreted what I was saying. I think America's human rights record is pretty squalid too, I don't think they should have an Olympics either quite frankly. The problem is that it legitimises the regime. It legitimised Hitler in 1936. From the point of view of the Chinese government it is seen as the International community giving them the green light to continue as they are. No matter what pressures hypocrites like Bush put on them to reform, the fact that they are being given an Olympic Games means that even despite the abuse of human rights China is a respected global power.


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I don't watch the olympics

I don't watch the olympics because frankly they are boring.


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Brian37 wrote:There is not

Brian37 wrote:

There is not one Super Bowl halftime show that would come close to what I saw tonight.

I would certainly hope not. 


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Does anyone else think maybe

Does anyone else think maybe this show was so extravagant because of all the bad press China gets around the world? I thought they were trying to show off a bit. Show how cool and fun China is, despite all the underground organ transplants and everything.

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I thought it was cool how

I thought it was cool how organized and diligent the people involved were; but beyond that, I didn't care much for the show itself. Seemed like a disingenuous attempt at public relations work to boost their tourism income. They were definitely trying to go a single day without a generally negative view from the press.

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Some of my critics here seem

Some of my critics here seem to think I am unaware of the bad that the Chinese government does. That point is NOT lost on me.

However not all of the almost 2 billion people of that country are all government employees.

Saying that every Chinese citizen thinks the same is like saying that every American thinks the same and every atheist thinks the same. If we want China's government to improve it's human rights the last thing we should do is say, "You slant eyes are all the same".

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Jacob Cordingley wrote:I

Jacob Cordingley wrote:

I didn't watch it. Partly because I was watching Russian tanks rolling into Georgia instead, and partly because I don't think a country with such an appalling human rights record as China should be allowed to host an Olympic Games. This is Berlin 1936 and Moscow 1980 all over again.

...and how were those countries' sitting governments doing ten years on?  Seems to me if you want to topple a regime, let them host the Olympics.

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From a professional point of

From a professional point of view the show was technically superb. Beyond superb. I'm in that industry and have an inkling of what is involved in putting something like that together.

Makes me warm & fuzzy inside to know that we supplied some of that gear and more than a little worried to know what we're going to be doing to equal or to top it come 2012.

What I do find amusing/bemusing was that the only real display with overtones of the Communist Party I recognised was the unfurling of the Chinese flag. And while I know that the Olympics are supposed to be a happy event, there was no mention of the Cultural Revolution in the 4000 years of history covered. I guess it speaks volumes of the progress towards tolerance made post-Mao that the ceremony included references to Confucius and other aspects of Chinese cultural heritage that were so ruthlessly oppressed.

Stop that... It's silly.


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China vexes me. On one hand,

China vexes me. On one hand, the innovation, raw intelligence and willingness for sacrifice of Chinese people astounds me. Their work ethics, demeanor, thoroughness, IQ... it's enough to stun me from time to time.

On the other hand... Why the Hell can't they find good leadership? It's not like their pool of people with excellent characteristics is shallow. I mean, look at Tank Man:

Seriously. That was just some average Chinese dude, and after everything that had happened, he had the cajones to stand in front of four 60-some ton tanks on his way home from grocery shopping and say, 'You're fucking up my neighborhood. Get the fuck out.'

If you guys would just switch-out your administrators, you'd be one of the world's best places to live. Hopefully you do it before I jump over there to teach English. Sticking out tongue

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MattShizzle wrote:I don't

MattShizzle wrote:

I don't watch the olympics because frankly they are boring.

are you kidding me?  women's volleyball is HOT!

now granted some - like the female gymnasts - are a little too young for my personal preference, but in general we're talking about two weeks of watching sweat drip down fit bodies in minimal apparel. 


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I can easily find better

I can easily find better pictures/video online. No olympic sports are interesting. Give me football, NASCAR or hockey. Or baseball for listening on the radio. Before I had a computer I fucking hated the olympics because they preempted shows I watched.

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i really hate the summer

i really hate the summer olympics personally, its just so full of EVERY boring ass "sport" they could think of...

2hours of watching Javalin throwing? o_O I dont wanna see some one throw a javalin unless it hits a human! "Edit; Or a cat"

3hours of watching people row boats? ... with no underwater mines?... BLASPHEMEY!!

Dont even get me started on gymnastics...

Oh, and that RETARDED "walking" race -_- urgh wheres a .50cal when you need it

 

At least winter olympics has speed, weapons, and violent sports

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It was nice, but i just have

It was nice, but i just have one big problem with that:

"Beijing Olympics to cost China 44 billion dollars"

 

For fsake, few more billions and we could have sent a manned mission to mars. Which would be worth every penny, not like that expensive nonsense.


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Sounds like a lot of their

Sounds like a lot of their money was spent on CGI.

 

www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/olympics/2534499/Beijing-Olympic-2008-opening-ceremony-giant-firework-footprints-faked.html

 

Parts of the spectacular Beijing Olympics opening ceremony on Friday were faked because of fears over live filming, it has emerged.

As the ceremony got under way with a dramatic, drummed countdown, viewers watching at home and on giant screens inside the Bird's Nest National Stadium watched as a series of giant footprints outlined in fireworks processed gloriously above the city from Tiananmen Square.

What they did not realise was that what they were watching was in fact computer graphics, meticulously created over a period of months and inserted into the coverage electronically at exactly the right moment.

I also enjoy telling children the truth about Santa.

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Boring ???Oh man, I'm really

Boring ???

Oh man, I'm really enjoying it, as usual.

This one has been the best since Australia.

Watch this race! I watched it live and then another 10 -12 times since. Love it!

http://www.nbcolympics.com/video/player.html?assetid=0811_hd_swb_hl_l0194&channelcode=sportsw

 Of course, part of what made this so great was the french team saying they were going to 'smash' the American team in this race...

And this is just one of a thousand great moments so far. Plus NBC is doing a good job of exploring Chinese culture a bit along the way.

 


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Quote:What they did not

Quote:

What they did not realise was that what they were watching was in fact computer graphics, meticulously created over a period of months and inserted into the coverage electronically at exactly the right moment.

Really? Because I was in Beijing during the ceremony, and they kinda looked real to me, since I could see them from the hotel balcony (I wasn't at the Bird's Nest, of course, but the footsteps were hard to miss since they followed the central axis of the city to the nest).

"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.

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deludedgod wrote:Quote:What

deludedgod wrote:

Quote:

What they did not realise was that what they were watching was in fact computer graphics, meticulously created over a period of months and inserted into the coverage electronically at exactly the right moment.

Really? Because I was in Beijing during the ceremony, and they kinda looked real to me, since I could see them from the hotel balcony (I wasn't at the Bird's Nest, of course, but the footsteps were hard to miss since they followed the central axis of the city to the nest).

 

They were real.

 

It is just that a very small part of what was broadcast was simulating what you were able to actually see because they didn't think they'd be able to capture the scene from the air in the way that they wanted it to appear.


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...I'm curious as to why so

...I'm curious as to why so many people are eager to point-out all the 'cheating' and 'fakery' that the Chinese got up to as far as the opening ceremonies are concerned.

'The Olympics are supposed to be about peace and unity!'

Get real.

The Olympics were never about either. They're about showing-off, and letting everyone know who stands where. They're another outlet for letting countries say, 'See? We're this much better than you!'. China wants to throw the best Olympics ever; that's absolutely in the spirit of the games. If cheating, short-cuts, fraud, bribery and coercion are necessary to be the best, so be it - that's always been a big part of the games too.

It's not about the sports or the athletes, and never has been. The men and women competing are just the unimportant products carrying their far more important national branding. It's funny Shelley should mention the volleyball - it's the most obvious example that the sporting events themselves are of no relevance.

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"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940


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Sadzaeater wrote:What I do

Sadzaeater wrote:

What I do find amusing/bemusing was that the only real display with overtones of the Communist Party I recognised was the unfurling of the Chinese flag. And while I know that the Olympics are supposed to be a happy event, there was no mention of the Cultural Revolution in the 4000 years of history covered. I guess it speaks volumes of the progress towards tolerance made post-Mao that the ceremony included references to Confucius and other aspects of Chinese cultural heritage that were so ruthlessly oppressed.

i suppose not mentioning the cultural revolution at all is better than whitewashing it like we do "manifest destiny."  and do you think the USA would mention the trail of tears.

besides, the cultural revolution is overblown.  it only really affected members of the ccp and public officials.  it was mao's way of establishing absolute control.  the real tragedy was the great leap forward.

and mao referenced confucius quite often in his published works.  he often looked on him disparagingly, but he also cited him as supporting evidence many times as well.

one thing you must remember, though: as horrible as he and his cronies were, china would more than likely not be at the level of development it is today had it not been for mao.  had it stayed in the hands of chiang kai shek and the kuomintang, it would have continued being a backward, quaint little holiday area for british and american bourgeoisie.  i'm not saying this justifies mao's actions, but it's something to think about.

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Jacob Cordingley wrote:I

Jacob Cordingley wrote:

I didn't watch it. Partly because I was watching Russian tanks rolling into Georgia instead, and partly because I don't think a country with such an appalling human rights record as China should be allowed to host an Olympic Games. This is Berlin 1936 and Moscow 1980 all over again.

i'd really like to find a country with a spotless human rights record.

china does some fucked up shit, true, but i also take everything i hear from amnesty international or the un or the western media with a grain of salt.  they have their own agendas.  it's important to judge everything through the steady eye of the historical materialist, not the idealistic crusader.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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Hosting olympics leads to regime change?

This reminded me of something the japanese shogun ordered.  You have to maintain 2 residences...one in my capital and your own in your domain.  The diamyo (sp?) or whatever also had to leave his family in the residence in the shogun's capital when he went back to his property to administer it. 

 

That expense could bankrupt a diamyo (sp?).

 

So...potentially, the expense of hosting the olympics could bankrupt a country. 

 

Iirc, didn't the US boycott the russian olympics and then the russians boycotted the next olympics in the US.  It was bad for the economy iirc.

 

So, not only are the Chinese having a great financial investment, they have a significant 'ego investment' in these olympics.

 

Btw, did anyone see the part where walls were built to hide the delapadated neighborhoods so that the guests couldn't see them? 

 

China is trying to put it's best face forward...hence the little girl singing the chinese national anthem was actually lip-sinking.  The girl who was actually singing was considered too ugly (not pretty enough). 

 

This is still a country that is allowing only one child per family and then forcing the females to get sterilized.  They are practicing, to some unknown level, female infanticide (gender selection/abortion), because only boy children will grow up to take care of their dear old mom and pop.  Unfortunately, if only boys are being born, who will they marry and have children with in the future? (kind of short sighted but this kind of cultural bias runs deep in China).

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Lyzandra Daria wrote:This

Lyzandra Daria wrote:

This reminded me of something the japanese shogun ordered.  You have to maintain 2 residences...one in my capital and your own in your domain.  The diamyo (sp?) or whatever also had to leave his family in the residence in the shogun's capital when he went back to his property to administer it. 

That expense could bankrupt a diamyo (sp?).

I dont really see how that has to do with the olympics in any, way, shape, or form... but...

That order of the shogun was... how shall i put this, a defensive tactic of the shogun, if a diamyo rebelled against his rule, the shogun could wipe out the diamyo's entire family in a matter of minutes, destroying all the diamyos wealth and connections in 1 blow... wtfpwning him >.>

And no, the diamyo's could not go bankrupt by owning 2 houses, they're the european equivalent to knights/lesser kings, they have fiefdoms, they can afford it.

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The Doomed Soul

The Doomed Soul wrote:

Lyzandra Daria wrote:

This reminded me of something the japanese shogun ordered.  You have to maintain 2 residences...one in my capital and your own in your domain.  The diamyo (sp?) or whatever also had to leave his family in the residence in the shogun's capital when he went back to his property to administer it. 

That expense could bankrupt a diamyo (sp?).

I dont really see how that has to do with the olympics in any, way, shape, or form... but...

That order of the shogun was... how shall i put this, a defensive tactic of the shogun, if a diamyo rebelled against his rule, the shogun could wipe out the diamyo's entire family in a matter of minutes, destroying all the diamyos wealth and connections in 1 blow... wtfpwning him >.>

And no, the diamyo's could not go bankrupt by owning 2 houses, they're the european equivalent to knights/lesser kings, they have fiefdoms, they can afford it.

Yes, I know it was more of a hostage thing in japan, but the expense could still be exorbitant...bad crops, inept administration during your year in Kyoto,  etc.  The shogun has a bad day and you and your family are eliminated...shogun takes over your fiefdom...check and mate.

 

The 'point' was that hosting the olympics can be an expensive 'investment' if all variables are considered.  The Chinese hope to make their money back and be able to reuse the facilities for hosting other events in the future.  It's a gamble.  Sometimes it works out and your olympic event isn't boycotted.  Sometimes it doesn't and you don't even break even on the expenditure to rennovate the city the olympics were held in.

 

 

"Faith must have adequate evidence else it is mere superstition"...Alexander Hodge (1823-1886)

"A myth is a religion in which no one any longer believes"...James Feibleman (1904-1987)

Respectfully, Lyz


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Lyzandra Daria wrote:This is

Lyzandra Daria wrote:

This is still a country that is allowing only one child per family and then forcing the females to get sterilized.  They are practicing, to some unknown level, female infanticide (gender selection/abortion), because only boy children will grow up to take care of their dear old mom and pop.  Unfortunately, if only boys are being born, who will they marry and have children with in the future? (kind of short sighted but this kind of cultural bias runs deep in China).

i don't see why it's short-sighted, considering china has suffered from gross overpopulation for decades now (really throughout most of its history).  the west may consider those measures barbaric, but that's mostly because of the cold logic of it.  we in the west find it repulsive (me included), but we have that luxury.  china has suffered from periodic famines throughout its recorded history, and this is just one more effort to stave it off.  in all fairness, the effects of famine are also repulsive.

oh, and it's usually written "daimyo," btw.

 

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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Kevin R Brown wrote: ...I'm

Kevin R Brown wrote:

...I'm curious as to why so many people are eager to point-out all the 'cheating' and 'fakery' that the Chinese got up to as far as the opening ceremonies are concerned.

'The Olympics are supposed to be about peace and unity!'

Get real.

The Olympics were never about either. They're about showing-off, and letting everyone know who stands where. They're another outlet for letting countries say, 'See? We're this much better than you!'. China wants to throw the best Olympics ever; that's absolutely in the spirit of the games. If cheating, short-cuts, fraud, bribery and coercion are necessary to be the best, so be it - that's always been a big part of the games too.

It's not about the sports or the athletes, and never has been. The men and women competing are just the unimportant products carrying their far more important national branding. It's funny Shelley should mention the volleyball - it's the most obvious example that the sporting events themselves are of no relevance.

I believe the women's volleyball uniforms will consist of nipple tassells and thongs next time.  If it were practical, swimming events might be held in the nude.  Of course, there's no point in getting cynical about it, if Kevin (or any of you) is doing just that.  I find the Olympics to be a refreshing reminder that the world is indeed divided into countries that have their best interests and only their best interests at heart.  The unity and the peace the Olympics celebrates and that China is touting is, of course, only that of nations brought together in the spirit of showing-off and outdoing each other sans warfare (at the games at least).  And isn't that a wonderful analogy for what the athletes, who spend years and various amounts of exorbitant private and public money, do for the few weeks that they're brought together?  But far from only being analogous to the nature of the Olympics, the athletes are the focus and are the most important part for it is under their guise that this show is pulled off to delight and distract most of the world.  And it did that, didn't it?  Important events have been, and are yet, overshadowed by the games.  But this should not be a source of anxiety, nor should the matter of who is currently hosting the games.  Historically those facts have proved inconsequential.  Given the games China delighted and distracted and true to the challenge China has done those better than any nation every has and, I'm tempted to say, ever will.  But time will tell and if many of us remembers anything other than that the opening ceremony was truly awesome, a magnificent spectacle and a marvel of achievement, and how many and which athletes were caught out for 'cheating' I will be amazed.  If many of us remembers that other things were happening in the world in the meantime I will be more amazed.  I absolutely adore the Olympics and I have my favourite sports.  They may be blinders to a great deal of people, but I maintain my peripheral vision; I was delighted, but I'm never distracted.

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Thomathy wrote:Of course,

Thomathy wrote:

Of course, there's no point in getting cynical about it, if Kevin (or any of you) is doing just that.  I find the Olympics to be a refreshing reminder that the world is indeed divided into countries that have their best interests and only their best interests at heart.  The unity and the peace the Olympics celebrates and that China is touting is, of course, only that of nations brought together in the spirit of showing-off and outdoing each other sans warfare (at the games at least).  And isn't that a wonderful analogy for what the athletes, who spend years and various amounts of exorbitant private and public money, do for the few weeks that they're brought together?  But far from only being analogous to the nature of the Olympics, the athletes are the focus and are the most important part for it is under their guise that this show is pulled off to delight and distract most of the world.  And it did that, didn't it?  Important events have been, and are yet, overshadowed by the games.  But this should not be a source of anxiety, nor should the matter of who is currently hosting the games.  Historically those facts have proved inconsequential.  Given the games China delighted and distracted and true to the challenge China has done those better than any nation every has and, I'm tempted to say, ever will.  But time will tell and if many of us remembers anything other than that the opening ceremony was truly awesome, a magnificent spectacle and a marvel of achievement, and how many and which athletes were caught out for 'cheating' I will be amazed.  If many of us remembers that other things were happening in the world in the meantime I will be more amazed.  I absolutely adore the Olympics and I have my favourite sports.  They may be blinders to a great deal of people, but I maintain my peripheral vision; I was delighted, but I'm never distracted.

 

Thanks for pretty much saying what I wanted to say except better than I probably could have.


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Kevin R Brown wrote:It's

Kevin R Brown wrote:

It's funny Shelley should mention the volleyball - it's the most obvious example that the sporting events themselves are of no relevance.

Thomathy wrote:

I believe the women's volleyball uniforms will consist of nipple tassells and thongs next time.  If it were practical, swimming events might be held in the nude.

the penis could create some drag.... speaking of women's volleyball - misty may is clearly aware of how attractive she is.  last night she started leaving the sand on her tummy rather than brushing it off as she has the past few nights.  as lovely as i find this soft core porn on primetime though, they are talented athletically as well - my apologies for neglecting to metion that previously.


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iwbiek wrote:Lyzandra Daria

iwbiek wrote:

Lyzandra Daria wrote:

This is still a country that is allowing only one child per family and then forcing the females to get sterilized.  They are practicing, to some unknown level, female infanticide (gender selection/abortion), because only boy children will grow up to take care of their dear old mom and pop.  Unfortunately, if only boys are being born, who will they marry and have children with in the future? (kind of short sighted but this kind of cultural bias runs deep in China).

 


i don't see why it's short-sighted, considering china has suffered from gross overpopulation for decades now (really throughout most of its history).  the west may consider those measures barbaric, but that's mostly because of the cold logic of it.  we in the west find it repulsive (me included), but we have that luxury.  china has suffered from periodic famines throughout its recorded history, and this is just one more effort to stave it off.  in all fairness, the effects of famine are also repulsive.

 


Yes, I'm aware that China 'practiced' infanticide during periods of prolonged droughts and I'm aware of the overpopulation problem (all over the world).  Still, more female children were (and are) 'sacrificed' than male.  In this day and age, female offspring are just as capable of taking care of their aging parents (even in China) I would suspect.  To me, the Chinese should just 'get over' their gender bias.

 

I just wish someone would come up with a way to salvage the unwanted female blastocysts (?) and implant them in a surrogate uterus or adoptive mother until they can be born. 


oh, and it's usually written "daimyo," btw.


Thanks, I knew I was close. 

"Faith must have adequate evidence else it is mere superstition"...Alexander Hodge (1823-1886)

"A myth is a religion in which no one any longer believes"...James Feibleman (1904-1987)

Respectfully, Lyz


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Lyzandra Daria wrote:This is

Lyzandra Daria wrote:

This is still a country that is allowing only one child per family and then forcing the females to get sterilized.  They are practicing, to some unknown level, female infanticide (gender selection/abortion), because only boy children will grow up to take care of their dear old mom and pop.  Unfortunately, if only boys are being born, who will they marry and have children with in the future? (kind of short sighted but this kind of cultural bias runs deep in China).

Interesting point: hepatitis B infection predisposes women to bear boys due to increased miscarriage of female fetuses in infected mothers.  The hep B infection rate in China is something like 10-15%, which is huge (actually, hep B is endemic throughout continental Asia).  You actually see this same sort of imbalance in any country with a high hep B infection rate but a low immunization rate.

Yes, there is cultural preference towards male children in much of Asia, but this is working in tandem with a biological cause of a live birth gender imbalance, not the sole cause of the "more men than women" problem.

However, it's going to be a very interesting (in the "egads, that's probably not good" meaning of interesting) place in about 20 years due to such a large gender disparity.  Once scarcity of females starts becoming an actual social problem, what bizarre effects will there be?  Inflation in the costs of prostitution?

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Maybe more men being gay?

Maybe more men being gay? Maybe if their economy takes off the internet sites will advertise brides for Chinese men...

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shikko wrote:Lyzandra Daria

shikko wrote:

Lyzandra Daria wrote:

This is still a country that is allowing only one child per family and then forcing the females to get sterilized.  They are practicing, to some unknown level, female infanticide (gender selection/abortion), because only boy children will grow up to take care of their dear old mom and pop.  Unfortunately, if only boys are being born, who will they marry and have children with in the future? (kind of short sighted but this kind of cultural bias runs deep in China).

Interesting point: hepatitis B infection predisposes women to bear boys due to increased miscarriage of female fetuses in infected mothers.  The hep B infection rate in China is something like 10-15%, which is huge (actually, hep B is endemic throughout continental Asia).  You actually see this same sort of imbalance in any country with a high hep B infection rate but a low immunization rate.

Yes, there is cultural preference towards male children in much of Asia, but this is working in tandem with a biological cause of a live birth gender imbalance, not the sole cause of the "more men than women" problem.

However, it's going to be a very interesting (in the "egads, that's probably not good" meaning of interesting) place in about 20 years due to such a large gender disparity.  Once scarcity of females starts becoming an actual social problem, what bizarre effects will there be?  Inflation in the costs of prostitution?

I didn't know about the predisposition of women infected with hepB in relation to progeny.  That is interesting. 

I have read (some scientific journal in a doctor's office) that female children born after a male child are more likely to die younger (as opposed to a first born female or any female born after a female with no intervening male births); have fewer children themselves; and have more health related issues in general.  (I believe it was a norwegian study) 

Since on average females live longer than males (birth order not withstanding) IMO I would want a female child to take care of me in my old age.

But we are getting off the subject of the thread...perhaps another time.

 

"Faith must have adequate evidence else it is mere superstition"...Alexander Hodge (1823-1886)

"A myth is a religion in which no one any longer believes"...James Feibleman (1904-1987)

Respectfully, Lyz


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iwbiek wrote:one thing you

iwbiek wrote:

one thing you must remember, though: as horrible as he and his cronies were, china would more than likely not be at the level of development it is today had it not been for mao.  had it stayed in the hands of chiang kai shek and the kuomintang, it would have continued being a backward, quaint little holiday area for british and american bourgeoisie.  i'm not saying this justifies mao's actions, but it's something to think about.

Taiwan's doing alright...

Stop that... It's silly.


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Sadzaeater wrote:iwbiek

Sadzaeater wrote:

iwbiek wrote:

one thing you must remember, though: as horrible as he and his cronies were, china would more than likely not be at the level of development it is today had it not been for mao.  had it stayed in the hands of chiang kai shek and the kuomintang, it would have continued being a backward, quaint little holiday area for british and american bourgeoisie.  i'm not saying this justifies mao's actions, but it's something to think about.

Taiwan's doing alright...

 

yeah, it is, especially if you ignore the historic fact of two distinct classes living in tight spaces.  Taiwan is a country with capitalism run wild, just like chiang kai shek wanted it. corporate interests are primary there, and if you don't get with the program, you're pretty much screwed.

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Sadzaeater wrote:iwbiek

Sadzaeater wrote:

iwbiek wrote:

one thing you must remember, though: as horrible as he and his cronies were, china would more than likely not be at the level of development it is today had it not been for mao.  had it stayed in the hands of chiang kai shek and the kuomintang, it would have continued being a backward, quaint little holiday area for british and american bourgeoisie.  i'm not saying this justifies mao's actions, but it's something to think about.

Taiwan's doing alright...

taiwan is america's mall.  mainland china, on the other hand, is a rising superpower with military muscle to flex, even if it isn't quite as big as the usa's.  give it another half a century or so...

i'm glad you brought up taiwan, though.  the west has always conveniently omitted how chiang's regime was no less brutally oppressive than mao's.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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iwbiek wrote: taiwan is

iwbiek wrote:

 

taiwan is america's mall.  mainland china, on the other hand, is a rising superpower with military muscle to flex, even if it isn't quite as big as the usa's.  give it another half a century or so...

i'm glad you brought up taiwan, though.  the west has always conveniently omitted how chiang's regime was no less brutally oppressive than mao's.

 

good point about them being our mall. People complain about all the cheap goods coming from India and China, but they ignore the fact Taiwan was where big businesses learned how to screw everyone over, thanks to the policies of Chiang and his followers.

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well, apparently satan's

well, apparently satan's happy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZdw4nSqZOc