Atheists stance on ghosts.

Death Dragoon
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Atheists stance on ghosts.

Im very new to the atheist movement even tho I have been one for over 10 years. I've always believed it to be common sense. So one of my questions is this, what is the atheists stance on ghosts, and doesn't this prove that there could be life after death? Appreciate any help.

When once asked in the library if I believed in Jesus Christ, I pointed out that zombie novels are in the fiction section.


Death Dragoon
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Appologize for the double

Appologize for the double post, no idea why it did that.


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There is no "atheist stance

There is no "atheist stance on ghosts." All every single atheist has in common is not believing in any god. I would say the vast majority of us do not believe in ghosts. I certainly don't.

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Death Dragoon
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Hm, maybe it should of been

Hm, maybe it should of been labled as a freethinkers view of ghosts. But anyway, their is some science to the claims ie coldspots, evps.

When once asked in the library if I believed in Jesus Christ, I pointed out that zombie novels are in the fiction section.


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Evps are utter bullshit.

Evps are utter bullshit. They are the sound equivalent of seeing Jesus in a pancake (pareidolia.) There is no science whatsoever behind any of that - there's plenty of pseudoscience though.

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Anyone who believes in

Anyone who believes in ghosts can ghost ick one up their ass.


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It does give me a bit of a

It does give me a bit of a headache when atheists believe in things that are almost as irrational as religion.

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Death Dragoon
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I never said I believed in

I never said I believed in it. I don't see how you can compare ghosts to religion, as theres been "evidence" on ghosts, millions of unexplained videos, pictures, coldspots, yadah yadah yadah, but theres never been anything pointing to any theist religion, Miracles can be explained, videos of transparent ghosts have  yet. Anyways I wasn't trying to debate the existance or lack of in ghosts, but what are your thoughts on if science did prove it, and how this would effect atheism (which I don't think it will at all).

When once asked in the library if I believed in Jesus Christ, I pointed out that zombie novels are in the fiction section.


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And since the answers from

And since the answers from you guys are their is no ghosts, then the only conclusion is that it wouldn't affect it at all, so I guess you have answered my question.

When once asked in the library if I believed in Jesus Christ, I pointed out that zombie novels are in the fiction section.


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I would say if valid

I would say if valid scientific evidence for ghost was discovered it would not make us become theists. We would just change one belief.

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Death Dragoon wrote:Im very

Death Dragoon wrote:

Im very new to the atheist movement even tho I have been one for over 10 years. I've always believed it to be common sense. So one of my questions is this, what is the atheists stance on ghosts, and doesn't this prove that there could be life after death? Appreciate any help.

 

I've tried to take a stance on ghosts.....

but everytime I try, my foot goes through.

 

my bad, he-he


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Ghosts are not real :P

Yes, atheism only addresses belief in gods.  So it follows that many atheists tend to be skeptical of the existence of ghosts.  Ghosts are often cited by "ghost-believers" as proof of life/existence after death.  Non-belief in god tends to lead to non-belief in all the baggage that comes along with god belief, such as believing in an afterlife.  But it is not always the case, unfortunately.

Harry Houdini was a skeptic who went out of his way to prove that ghosts and seances were crap.  Today, James Randi has taken up the mantle and offers $1 million dollars to prove paranormal activities.  No one yet has claimed the prize. 

Additionally there are these guys:

 

Remember how you figured out there is no Santa? Well, their god is just like Santa. They just haven’t figured out he’s not real yet.


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I think if you did your

I think if you did your research you'd find all this evidence for ghosts that you say hasn't been debunked actually has. The psychics who claim to talk to them are the worst of all. And I don't know if you can get the opinion of the full spectrum of those considering themselves atheist on ghosts here, but most people I'm familiar with on this site don't believe in the concept of a soul, or life after death, so ghosts are considered just as irrational.

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Me, personally, I don't

Me, personally, I don't believe in "ghosts" or "spirits" or anything else like that for the matter. I believe that superstitious people have expectations (for lack of a better word) when they enter a scare place, i.e. a cemetery after dark, or any other place they believe to be spooky; this helps lead to their imagining of such things. To me the logic is simple: There is no such thing a soul, therefore there is nothing remaining after death, and so no ghosts. As for all the "evidence" and pseudoscience, there are two possible explanations, taking into account the previous statement: Either A) the "evidence" is complete bullshit, or B) there is some other naturally occurring phenomenon that has yet to be fully explained by science, but in time, like everything else, will.

It's funny, I recently got to put all this to the "test" if you will. Before I became an atheist, I believed in ghosts (and a handful of other embarrassing things), and was scared of them. A few weeks back a friend and I crept into the old city cemetery at nightfall and walked around in the dark until about 1 in the morning. She was really scared at times and constantly thinking she was seeing things. She even found some rosemary growing along some confederate graves that she thought would protect her. I thought this all was very amusing and ridiculous. The whole time I wasn't worried a bit. I knew there was nothing out there, nothing that was going to "get us", and so I was cool as a cucumber the entire time. Sticking out tongue Upon noticing my condition she made the comment "You're a proper atheist aren't you....." ^_^


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Ghosts - assuming they exist

Ghosts - assuming they exist - are not necessarily supernatural. They may well just be a part of the universe which we don't understand yet.

That said, there is no good evidence for 'em. I mean... none. Zilch. And people have been looking for quite a while.

Boards don't hit back. (Bruce Lee)


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Yes, I think...

BrainFromArous wrote:

Ghosts - assuming they exist - are not necessarily supernatural. They may well just be a part of the universe which we don't understand yet.

That said, there is no good evidence for 'em. I mean... none. Zilch. And people have been looking for quite a while.

 

Yes, I think all phenomena commonly labeled as supernatural or paranormal are either false or no different from natural, normal phenomena.  So, if ghosts became proven which I doubt but I suppose it’s possible, we would simply label them as previously unknown natural entities.

 

 

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"Humanity has the stars in its future, and that future is too important to be lost under the burden of juvenile folly and ignorant superstition". - Isaac Asimov


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Belieiving in ghosts would

Belieiving in ghosts would neccesiate a belief in some form of soul, something not found in many atheists. I'm sure ghost belief is pratically non-existent among atheists.

That is, until Luminion shows up in this thread..

Psalm 14:1 "the fool hath said in his heart there is a God"-From a 1763 misprinted edition of the bible

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Bear in mind; being afraid

Bear in mind; being afraid of the dark is an evolutionary advantage for us. The real dangerous predators for us (big cats and the like) can see in the dark, and do much of their hunting then - while hunter gatherers like us would've been easy game. Monsters, ghosts, etc, that linger in the dark can very easily be dismissed as byproducts of such an evolutionary advantage, as well as several cultural myths, stereotypes, etc.

 

All that said... meh. Some nights, I simply can't handle the dark without hiding under my covers. I find that some 'authentic' ghost footage really does resonate fear within me (however hoaxed it is), and I have little choice in the matter of certain apparitions:

My brain makes them real to me. I don't think that's the same as 'belief' (...I know that they aren't physically there), and it certainly wouldn't change my mind about afterlife even if I did believe they were real (Dead 'people'? Hah! People hardly look like that).

 

Skepticism is always important, regardless of your personal emotional attachment.

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"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

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I think that if you live in

I think that if you live in the United States and you believe in ghosts you're a closet racist.  Millions of Native Americans and enslaved Africans died in horrible conditions all over the country for centuries and 99% percent of ghost stories feature some jilted rich white girl or Civil War veteran.  Give me a fucking break. 

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People have trouble coming

People have trouble coming to terms with *this* simple truth: We Live...We Die.

All of this beleif in invisible stuff that there is no evidence for is a way to quell fear....and a way for opportunists to make money at vulnerable people's expense. ...The Jon Edwards, James Van Praughs, and Sylvia Brownes of the world are no better than drug dealers in our local schoolyards who take advantage of greiving people looking for closure. 

People miss the ones they love who buy the farm...its sad, sure...but beleiving that there is a way to communicate with a corpse is a sure way to sepparate you from your hard earned coin.

  Here's a little piece I did on one such affront to humanity: http://www.unlearnnow.com/douche.html


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I agree with South Park that

I agree with South Park that Jon Edwards is the biggest douche in the universe. I heard something recently that Van Prick pissed off Barbara Walters. Sylvia Browne is a total asshat and she refuses to have anything to do with James Randi - she says it's becuase he's an atheist but it's because she knows she'd get PWNED.

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Death Dragoon wrote:Hm,

Death Dragoon wrote:

Hm, maybe it should of been labled as a freethinkers view of ghosts. But anyway, their is some science to the claims ie coldspots, evps.

Ghosts are not real. When I was 18 before I went to college I worked all summer at a cemetery. I was a groundskeeper and assisted with burials. Several times we had to dig up 40 or more year old graves when a parent died and wanted to be buried with their child in a new location. It was a little creepy the first time but you get over it. Most of the coffins and the body was deteriorated to just a few bones and bits of cloth. I never saw no ghost! Any possible belief I may have had was cured by this experience. If there is anything to ghosts you'd think I would have seen at least one as I was wandering in a graveyard for 8-10 hours a day 6 days a week.

Today I laugh at the horror movies which have ghosts and supernatural BS as a basis. It's not the dead you need to fear, its the wacko live ones.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?

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Then watch this one .....

Here's a follow-up for the previous vid.... just over a minute long

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrVR1oHtOhQ&feature=related

 


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Well atheism isnt a belief

Well atheism isnt a belief system so cannot have an opinion on anything bar the existance of 'god(s)'

 

However generally most (but not all) atheists are skeptics.

Skeptics assume that something doesnt exist until evidence  proves otherwise. A skeptically ghost investigator would first have to define what a ghost is and then find evidence supporting this.

If a ghost is defined as a creepy experience including visions and sound effects  observed by an individual then the evidence is overwhelming and can actually be induced with the right controls. Sensory deprivation , cold wet enviroments or even telling a person that a location is 'haunted'

If a ghost is defined as the physical (or at least viewable) consciousnous of a dead life form then there is currently no evidence of this and all current knowledge of the world indicates this is extremely unlikely

Also many (but not all) atheists are naturalists  (brights) who believe the universe can only be explained through physical processes. If a ghost exists then it is assumed to be a naturalist process, ie a ghost would have to be made of something 'real', that ghosts could be tested examined and would add to the sum of scientific knowledge.

 

My opinion for what its worth

When a human being dies thats the end of their consciousness (99.999% certain of this), however if someone can come up with evidence otherwise it would be incredible and they would win a well deserved Nobel Prize for Science

 

 

 


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As others have pointed out,

As others have pointed out, atheism has no inherent stance on ghosts.   One may believe in anything one wants except for god and be called an atheist.

As for the evidence of ghosts, it's suspect at best and plain ol' made up at worst.  Beyond that, there's a problem of coherency.  What is a ghost?

*  A spirit?  What's a spirit?  Words like "spiritual" and "immaterial" are incoherent and cannot be scientifically tested.

* A consciousness?  How?  The definition of consciousness is intrinsically linked to material existence -- neurons, to be specific.

* A remnant of life?  Huh?  Remnant how?  Is it alive or dead?  If it's alive, see the previous question.  If it's dead, why speak of it in terms of the living? 

* Immaterial/incorporeal existence?  These words are incoherent and as such, scientifically untestable

We could go on, but the fact is, for science to test something, it needs to know what it's testing.  You can hand a scientist a bunch of data on "cold spots" or "electromagnetic variations" or any other such evidence, and any scientist worth a damn will respond, "Well, that proves that we ought to do more experiments to see if cold spots or electromagnetic variations exist."

Even if verified, the existence of these things doesn't prove, or even particularly lead one towards, the conclusion that ghosts exist.  All it proves is that something causes these things to happen.

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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DamnDirtyApe wrote:I think

DamnDirtyApe wrote:

I think that if you live in the United States and you believe in ghosts you're a closet racist.  Millions of Native Americans and enslaved Africans died in horrible conditions all over the country for centuries and 99% percent of ghost stories feature some jilted rich white girl or Civil War veteran.  Give me a fucking break. 

Thats an odd concept, as a Native American myself, half blooded Tsalagi, and if I believed in ghosts then i'm racist against my own people? I happen to know some african americans who believe in ghosts, and I'm pretty sure they don't hate their own race.

When once asked in the library if I believed in Jesus Christ, I pointed out that zombie novels are in the fiction section.


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I happen to wholeheartedly

I happen to wholeheartedly agree what everyone says about psychics/whisperers, but I don't see what they have to do with ghosts. From what I know about their bullshit, they say they contact the dead (obviously hot and cold readings) but they don't say they contact ghosts. Nor could they because if they did then it would be easy to point out why noone else can see the ghosts. Anywho correct me if I'm wrong, I don't have the time anymore to do thorough research.

When once asked in the library if I believed in Jesus Christ, I pointed out that zombie novels are in the fiction section.


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I think the point is that

I think the point is that most ghost stories tend to be racially biased


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I disagree. I don't think a

I disagree. I don't think a person is racist if they believed that they saw a native american ghost at a trail of tears site. If anything, it only points out that americans WERE racist when they genocided us off in the first place. You cannot say a person is racist just because of what their ancestors might of done in the past. But this is all speculation anyways as many have pointed out, basicly zilch for evidence out there.

When once asked in the library if I believed in Jesus Christ, I pointed out that zombie novels are in the fiction section.


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NO, I mean you don't hear as

NO, I mean you don't hear as many stories about dead indians, even though they probably have a good reason to not "be at rest" or whatever. Every time national geographic does a ghost special though all the ghosts are rich white girls who died young or who's husband never came home. Or something along those lines. But it's usually not about people of a non-white color who actually suffered.

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Death Dragoon
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Ahh I see, I didn't read

Ahh I see, I didn't read apes comment correctly anyways so sorry about the reply.


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Ghost ? Racist ?

 I don't know what it is about Ghost , but you never hear about them haunting a poor housing projects,or the slums-Hmmmmmm.Ghost are plainly just a fabric of the "Imagination".

 

Signature ? How ?


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pyrokidd wrote:NO, I mean

pyrokidd wrote:

NO, I mean you don't hear as many stories about dead indians, even though they probably have a good reason to not "be at rest" or whatever. Every time national geographic does a ghost special though all the ghosts are rich white girls who died young or who's husband never came home. Or something along those lines. But it's usually not about people of a non-white color who actually suffered.

Probably the TV shows just don't find the stories interesting enough. I grew up in Pueblo Colorado and there are stories of hauntings and spirits in the Sangre de Cristo Mountains. There were many Indian ghost stories too about the Comanche killed by the Spanish and how they haunted the mountains and the river beds. Here's a few links for you to check:

http://www.trueghosttales.com/paranormal/native-american-indian-ghosts/

http://www.firstpeople.us/FP-Html-Legends/IoiandtheGhostHusband-Chinook.html

http://www.ilhawaii.net/~stony/lore128.html

http://www.ghostbooks.biz/american_indian.htm

http://www.ghostbooks.biz/author.htm

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/624765/haunted_places_in_and_near_pueblo_colorado.html?cat=16

http://www.ghostsandcritters.com/nativeamericanghosts.html

There are many books on Native American Ghost stories they just don't get the attention.

 

____________________________________________________________
"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me

"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.


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The whole thing with ghosts

The whole thing with ghosts seems hard to discuss. I don't know any common ground for it. It's too early. Is it here about a burden of proof, to prove positive or negative? Or are we just telling ourselves mutually how did we never see any ghosts? Well, neither did I. Exactly said, I never perceived a ghost visually.
I don't care if anyone believes in ghosts. If anyone can see, touch and/or hear ghosts, that is already not a belief. If not, then it's just as right to be convinced about non-existence of ghosts.

Loc wrote:

Belieiving in ghosts would neccesiate a belief in some form of soul, something not found in many atheists. I'm sure ghost belief is pratically non-existent among atheists.

That is, until Luminion shows up in this thread..

Then I have a good news for you. Luminion won't show in this topic, because no such nickname is registered on the forum. Of course if you meant 'Luminon' (notice the one 'i' missing), then it's something different.
Well, there was a several events around which happened the way like a ghost(s) would interact with a living person. Do I believe it? Honestly, that's too theoretic question. Problems are real and solutions too. It doesn't matter if a solution involves something which may look like a "work with ghosts", when it helps to solve the real problems.

But of course, even if ghosts would exist, atheists wouldn't care about them at all, until it would be absolutely surely proven. Until then, there's too great danger of getting our atheistic hands dirty. But I'm looking at it from the wrong end, I can't easily understand atheistic stance. For an atheist, a ghost, or anything similar is as distant, as a teapot on the orbit somewhere behind Mars. An atheist must disagree when I don't consider such phenomena as good as non-existent. I see the problem of ghosts' existence quite relevant for a quality of life, and within our reach. I believe that we both have reasons to stand our ground. We approach the problem differently. If I would want to be cheeky, I'd say that atheists doesn't approach the problem at all Smiling

According to one source, all life emits light, and thus even ghosts emits some form of light. This is why an existence of ghosts can be scientifically proven, when a material will be invented, which is extremely sensitive to light. (which will be afterwards used as a film material)
No matter if this is true, a real answer on the ghosts' question is still too far away for a real discussion. First should be scientifically expored much more substantial aspects of living, like, for example, the system of 'nadis'. I think that me, and someone else asked Deludedgod quite seriously about such things on another topic.

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Where is the evidence that

Where is the evidence that all life emits light?


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MattShizzle wrote:Where is

MattShizzle wrote:

Where is the evidence that all life emits light?

It's known as 'biophotons', originally named "ultra-weak light radiation" from cells, discovered long ago, maybe in thirties of last century. Reputedly, this light is trackable right to DNA itself. So far, all living things we ever saw are cells with DNA, so they emitted this kind of light and we can say, that all life radiates light. We discussed it already somewhere around with Deludedgod, and this is a real phenomenon.
See more on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biophoton


As for viruses, the living/non-living border here becomes a bit blurry.
 

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Trying to remember my

Trying to remember my physics but doesnt all forms of matter  (dead of alive) emit energy ie light?

Was many years seems i did my degree but remember something about black bodies etc

 


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mrjonno wrote:Trying to

mrjonno wrote:

Trying to remember my physics but doesnt all forms of matter  (dead of alive) emit energy ie light?

Was many years seems i did my degree but remember something about black bodies etc

If you take it so, matter = energy = light, but that sounds more like an esoteric stuff. Dead matter definitely can glow when it oxidates, burns, or when it's highly radioactive, but I think that otherwise not much.
Here's the talk about biophotons, which has very specific range of wave length, and reputedly, they're coherent similarly like a laser beam. Also, it participates on a cell communication.
This phenomenon is very specific and can't be mistaken with others, like bioluminescence. (fireflies) Many other things emits light, but none like biophotons.
Totally black objects are, I think, mainly about a total absorbtion and reflection of light.


 

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Wasnt really thinking of

Wasnt really thinking of matter  energy equivilance talking about any body that receives energy (and all bodies receive energy whereever you are in the universe) will eventually emit . Human body generally at room temperatures emits at infra red. Of course there are seperate chemical reactions that product light as welll

I'm assuming wikipedia is relatively uncontroversial on this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_body

 


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pauljohntheskeptic

pauljohntheskeptic wrote:

Today I laugh at the horror movies which have ghosts and supernatural BS as a basis. It's not the dead you need to fear, its the wacko live ones.

The last remaining quality in Christianity appears to be as plot fodder for Hollywood's ever worsening scripts to horror movies...

If there was a God, Man wouldn't have had to invent him [reversing Voltaire's famous quote].


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Death Dragoon wrote:Hm,

Death Dragoon wrote:

Hm, maybe it should of been labled as a freethinkers view of ghosts.

wikipedia wrote:

Freethought holds that individuals should neither accept nor reject ideas proposed as truth without recourse to knowledge and reason. Thus, freethinkers strive to build their beliefs on the basis of facts, scientific inquiry, what's gone by one's own eyes, and logical principles, independent of any factual/logical fallacies or intellectually-limiting effects of authority, cognitive bias, conventional wisdom, popular culture, prejudice, sectarianism, tradition, urban legend, and all other dogmatic or otherwise fallacious principles.

Therefore, our view of ghosts would be "undecided" until we have sufficient justification to form a belief either for or against the existence of ghosts.


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The concept of a "ghost"

The concept of a "ghost" fits what would make sense to a human. It acts, thinks and speaks like a human. Humans psychologically expect other humans, which is why we see faces in abstract objects. Therefore a "ghost" is most likely to be a collective delusion.

*Our world is far more complex than the rigid structure we want to assign to it, and we will probably never fully understand it.*

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peppermint wrote:The concept

peppermint wrote:

The concept of a "ghost" fits what would make sense to a human. It acts, thinks and speaks like a human. Humans psychologically expect other humans, which is why we see faces in abstract objects. Therefore a "ghost" is most likely to be a collective delusion.

It's logical to expect a human ghost to act like a human. However, the diversity of ghost-like beings known among esoteric researchers is much greater, and they're not always antropomorphic.
Spirits of nature (deva), involution spirits, or "White lodge" are well known examples. They are either quite alien to our thinking, non-intellectual (strictly emotional), or very impersonal. I know about several people capable of such a contact (including a classical human ghosts) and the differences between various ghost-like beings are quite remarkable.

I don't know how much of 'communication with ghosts' is a delusion, after all, if a ghost really speaks through a medium, then it is what it is, not a fake communication. Maybe some amateur spiritist sessions are fake, but I've never heard of anyone specific who does them. (maybe some bored, barely teenage girls on a camp)
It's common among people I know to give a lecture to people or an individual, speaking (or writing) completely meaningful, but previously unknown things. Such information is not remembered since before, but immediately intuitively known.
Also, it's even more common for two people to call each other's phone at the same moment, or think about themselves when one of them calls.
I think that a ghost or contacts with ghosts is an equally complicated area of knowledge as any other part of reality. I think, your point of view, including only hypothetical human ghosts, is too much simplified.

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Luminon wrote:peppermint

Luminon wrote:

peppermint wrote:

The concept of a "ghost" fits what would make sense to a human. It acts, thinks and speaks like a human. Humans psychologically expect other humans, which is why we see faces in abstract objects. Therefore a "ghost" is most likely to be a collective delusion.

It's logical to expect a human ghost to act like a human. However, the diversity of ghost-like beings known among esoteric researchers is much greater, and they're not always antropomorphic.
Spirits of nature (deva), involution spirits, or "White lodge" are well known examples. They are either quite alien to our thinking, non-intellectual (strictly emotional), or very impersonal. I know about several people capable of such a contact (including a classical human ghosts) and the differences between various ghost-like beings are quite remarkable.

I don't know how much of 'communication with ghosts' is a delusion, after all, if a ghost really speaks through a medium, then it is what it is, not a fake communication. Maybe some amateur spiritist sessions are fake, but I've never heard of anyone specific who does them. (maybe some bored, barely teenage girls on a camp)
It's common among people I know to give a lecture to people or an individual, speaking (or writing) completely meaningful, but previously unknown things. Such information is not remembered since before, but immediately intuitively known.
Also, it's even more common for two people to call each other's phone at the same moment, or think about themselves when one of them calls.
I think that a ghost or contacts with ghosts is an equally complicated area of knowledge as any other part of reality. I think, your point of view, including only hypothetical human ghosts, is too much simplified.

 

Of course there are many things in this world that could be possible and "exist on a separate plane". Humans are very creative with their ideas about spirits, other realms, etc. Our imaginations take us to deep places. To me, it seems logical that we as creatures desiring social groups with complex emotions would lean towards belief in a spirit of someone gone or "past". We are naturally curious and imaginative, as well as prone to paranoia and delusions. Ghost stories might demonstrate this.

I'm not saying GHOSTS DON'T EXIST. What I am saying is that it seems extremely unlikely, given what I know about humans and the physical world. I've noticed people that believe in ghosts, angels, etc. tend to do so when they are very emotional (such as afraid, grieving, etc) which is a prime time for people to lose focus on reality.

How do you know the people who "contact" ghosts aren't making it up or having delusions themselves? What evidence have you seen?

Too simplified? Why is my logic simplistic because it doesn't agree with your ideas?

*Our world is far more complex than the rigid structure we want to assign to it, and we will probably never fully understand it.*

"Those believers who are sophisticated enough to understand the paradox have found exciting ways to bend logic into pretzel shapes in order to defend the indefensible." - Hamby


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Quote:I think that if you

Quote:
I think that if you live in the United States and you believe in ghosts you're a closet racist.  Millions of Native Americans and enslaved Africans died in horrible conditions all over the country for centuries and 99% percent of ghost stories feature some jilted rich white girl or Civil War veteran.  Give me a fucking break.

 

And people who believe in angels are even bigger racists. No, wait......not racists.....retards.

 

 

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I hate the fact that the

I hate the fact that the word "atheist" specifically refers to god(s). Superstition is superstition and magic is a word ignorant people use when they don't have an answer.

I would not call someone an atheist if they believe in ghosts and to me if they believe that bullshit they might as well believe that Harry Potter can fly around on a broomstick.

To me an atheist is one who rejects all superstitious claims based on lack of evidence. Ghosts are in the same boat as vampires and Big Foot , Thor and Jesus. All these claims, from god belief to ghosts are merely fictitious whims of lazy minds that easly get spooked into buying garbage.

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I've never seen a ghost.  I

I've never seen a ghost.  I have had the crap scared out of me by a ouija board.  And, no, the other 2 people involved were not moving the thing.  There's no way.  All that tells me is that there are likely forces on Earth that we don't know how to measure yet.  What are they?  Well, somebody needs to figure out how to measure them first.

I would not expect anyone else to hold my same belief in a something out there that has been interpreted as a ghost or whatnot (nice and specific, I know) since I not only can I not really explain very well what I experienced, but I definitely can't prove it.

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BrainFromArous wrote:Ghosts

BrainFromArous wrote:

Ghosts - assuming they exist - are not necessarily supernatural. They may well just be a part of the universe which we don't understand yet.

That said, there is no good evidence for 'em. I mean... none. Zilch. And people have been looking for quite a while.

Your kidding me right? Please tell me you don't call yourself an atheist.

What the f is the difference between a disembodied brain who resides above the clouds and a disembodied brain who seems to be mist or a shaddow?

"If they exist" NO, they dont, they are nothing but a superstition, just like Big Foot and rabbits feet.


 

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Pick it apart.

Ok, so I get why some posters are ripping apart your words, and I understand because of the Atheist mindset. So let's look at it this way in a very non-evidential point of view: Ghosts are claimed to be what? If you thought ghosts are real, what would you say they are? Many people think ghosts are the spirits of people trapped in a sort of "limbo," if you will.

Ok, so we've established that a ghost is a trapped soul. Do you believe that a person separates with their soul when they die? If you truly call yourself an Atheist, then that answer would be no. And what is "limbo," per say? Is it the place between earth and heaven? Believers would probably say so, but as an Atheist, you would not believe that heaven exists and without the belief in a soul, there is nothing to be trapped.

So you have to ask yourself if you believe that a ghost is real, taking away that whole "creepy and spooky" factor. If you believe that ghosts are real, and agree that a ghost is a soul in limbo, then by definition you're not really an Atheist. Now I'm not trying to tell you what you are and aren't, I'm just saying that if you call yourself and Atheist, then you must admit that ghosts cannot be real.

So, do I have the scientific knowledge to dissect those videos and other "ghostly phenomenon?" No, but no one is expecting every Atheist to know everything (expect for the Bible-thumpers...now there is a really irrational crowd!). I also don't know everything there is to know about evolution, but I can confidently say that I don't believe in god, heaven, or anything happening after I die, so therefore, believing in a ghost would be absolutely contradictory to that.


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anniet wrote:I've never seen

anniet wrote:

I've never seen a ghost.  I have had the crap scared out of me by a ouija board.  And, no, the other 2 people involved were not moving the thing.  There's no way.  All that tells me is that there are likely forces on Earth that we don't know how to measure yet.  What are they?  Well, somebody needs to figure out how to measure them first.

I would not expect anyone else to hold my same belief in a something out there that has been interpreted as a ghost or whatnot (nice and specific, I know) since I not only can I not really explain very well what I experienced, but I definitely can't prove it.

I was always the one moving the ouija board...