Best little-known movies ever made

nigelTheBold
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Best little-known movies ever made

Similar to (and inspired by) Hamby's "Worst movies ever made" topic, I now present "The best (little-known) movies ever made." I think the title says it all -- low-budget or low-profile movies that are superior to their A-list cousins.

I go first:

"Bubba Ho-Tep." Bruce Campbell as an aging Elvis fighting a mummy in a retirement home.

'Nuff said.

"Yes, I seriously believe that consciousness is a product of a natural process. I find that the neuroscientists, psychologists, and philosophers who proceed from that premise are the ones who are actually making useful contributions to our understanding of the mind." - PZ Myers


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nigelTheBold wrote:"Bubba

nigelTheBold wrote:

"Bubba Ho-Tep." Bruce Campbell as an aging Elvis fighting a mummy in a retirement home.

'Nuff said.

MirrorMask.  Love me some Neil Gaiman.

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Boondock Saints...Misogyny,

Boondock Saints...Misogyny, macho fag hating homosexual detectives, excessive violence in slow motion, bad Irish accents, Ron Jeremy trying to act seriously...what more could you ask for?

“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” Yoda


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I remember watching

I remember watching "Disorderlies" on videotape. Don't remember it being out in theaters. This was in the late '80s - it starred the Rap group The Fat Boys as orderlies working for a very wealthy man who had relatives trying to kill him. It was almost like a 3 Stooges movie.

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shikko wrote:MirrorMask. 

shikko wrote:

MirrorMask.  Love me some Neil Gaiman.

Excellent suggestion.

My only (minor) complaint about Mirrormask -- it seemed like it "borrowed" heavily from Labyrinth. Much better, I think, but still, there were some echoes.

"Yes, I seriously believe that consciousness is a product of a natural process. I find that the neuroscientists, psychologists, and philosophers who proceed from that premise are the ones who are actually making useful contributions to our understanding of the mind." - PZ Myers


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My fave

Nueve Reinas (a argentinian movie later remade by hollywood), Memento (ok it's a cult classic now I know) Jesus Chris Vampire hunter, and The Puppet Master


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I don't know if it counts as

I don't know if it counts as little-known, but I liked A Perfect Worldhttp://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107808/


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Batman ; Dead

Batman ; Dead End

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Hjp0I_okX0w

 

Thats 1 batman movie i can guarantee you've never seen ^_^

(Dont read the comments or side bar... it spoils to much)

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One of the movies I've most

One of the movies I've most enjoyed was The Naked Lunch.  All I was allowed to be told going in to it is that it was about cockroaches and typewriters.

Another favourite is The City of Lost Children.  Do foreign (in this case, French) movies count or is that cheating?

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Doomed, that has the highest

Doomed, that has the highest production value for a short fan-film I've ever seen. Absolutely incredible.

Quote:
"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

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Before there was Youtube

Before there was Youtube there was cable public access channel.  To me this is a masterpiece performance that it is almost unreal.  I don't think anyone can act this one out.  I've watched this video at least 100x.

Spirit of Truth!

Part 1:

 

 

Part 2:

 

 

 -RR

 


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Well, this one is quite well

Well, this one is quite well known in New Zealand, and I personally think is the best movie to ever be filmed there.

Once Were Warriors

 

Brutal domestic violence and an emotionally charged story.


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Near Dark.My favorite

Near Dark.

My favorite vampire movie.


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nigelTheBold wrote:"Bubba

nigelTheBold wrote:

"Bubba Ho-Tep." Bruce Campbell as an aging Elvis fighting a mummy in a retirement home.

'Nuff said.

Quoth my ex: "Best Elvis vs. Mummy movie ever made."

I nominate "Old Boy". It's a Korean movie by Chan Wook Park. It's the bestest, mindfuckingest, revengingist revenge flick ever made.

Runner up: "Requiem For a Dream"

"Faith, Faith is an island in the setting sun,
but proof, proof is the bottom line for everyone."
Proof, Paul Simon

Nothing this hard should taste so beefy.


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Once were warriors was good,

Once were warriors was good, plus it has evil Boba Fett. ALthough Rapa Nui was pretty cool, other than the fact the plot sucked.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0110944/

 

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Some of my favs....

But I'm a Cheerleader (US 1999):

Cute little story about a teenager whose parents send her to a rehab because they think she's a lesbian. Campy, but good writing and social commentary.

Ginger Snaps (Can 2000):

Lycanthropy as a metaphore for puberty...

Crash ( US 1996):

Sex and automobile crashes, or automobile crashes AS sex ...

Preaching to the Perverted (UK 1997)

The last film to be banned in Ireland in the twentieth century. Young geek recruited to infiltrate the London BDSM scene...

The Rapture (US 1991)

Young woman in a dead end job and sleep walking through a 'swinging' lifestyle finds god, marries, loses it all...and confronts god in the (literal) end. Mimi Rogers should have gotten an Oscar nod for this one.

 

LC >;-}>

Christianity: A disgusting middle eastern blood cult, based in human sacrifice, with sacraments of cannibalism and vampirism, whose highest icon is of a near naked man hanging in torment from a device of torture.


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Yep...

Watcher wrote:

Near Dark.

My favorite vampire movie.

One of mine too...

LC >;-}>

 

Christianity: A disgusting middle eastern blood cult, based in human sacrifice, with sacraments of cannibalism and vampirism, whose highest icon is of a near naked man hanging in torment from a device of torture.


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Quote:Ginger Snaps (Can

Quote:
Ginger Snaps (Can 2000):

Lycanthropy as a metaphore for puberty...

I don't think a better werewolf movie has been made.

Quote:

Crash ( US 1996):

Sex and automobile crashes, or automobile crashes AS sex ...

...Is it fair to call this one small-time? Everyone I know has it on their 'desert island' list.

Quote:
"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940


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It, the Terror from beyond

It, the Terror from beyond Space ( 1950's grade B schlock )

Blade Runner ( Roy Batty was a total bad ass replicant who strangely made polite conversation with Dekker even as he attempted to kill him)

Hell Raiser ( The Cenobites were truly a nightmare from hell and whose favorite pass time was performing vivisection upon their helpless victims )

                          


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nutxaq wrote:I nominate "Old

nutxaq wrote:

I nominate "Old Boy". It's a Korean movie by Chan Wook Park. It's the bestest, mindfuckingest, revengingist revenge flick ever made.

 

Then LINK it... i am as lazy as i am impatient

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The Doomed Soul wrote:nutxaq

The Doomed Soul wrote:

nutxaq wrote:

I nominate "Old Boy". It's a Korean movie by Chan Wook Park. It's the bestest, mindfuckingest, revengingist revenge flick ever made.

 

Then LINK it... i am as lazy as i am impatient

Sucks to be you.

www.imdb.com/title/tt0364569/

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but proof, proof is the bottom line for everyone."
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I've got a few

(I really liked near dark too)

Butterfly effect directors cut - I cant believe how the theatre version could blow a whole movie in the last 10 minutes and make it suck....if youve seen the theater version its too late...you cant go back...(no pun intended)

hard candy..

brick...

I, madman - I saw the trailer in the 80's but had to wait til a couple years ago til it came out on video...but never forgot....unfortuneately its kind of dated. But it would have been really good in the 80's..but it did have a memorable trailer

audition...

 

 

 


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thingy wrote: One of the

thingy wrote:

One of the movies I've most enjoyed was The Naked Lunch.  All I was allowed to be told going in to it is that it was about cockroaches and typewriters.

Yes!  You know, I was going to start a thread similar to this when I got home from work, and I was going to include Naked Lunch.  Burroughs' novel is one of the most mind-bending, ecstatically-written books I've ever read.  Cronenberg could have really ruined it, but his film actually transcended the novel in many ways--a rare feat for a director, but it's certainly been done (Kubrick's The Shining, Kaufman's The Unbearable Lightness of Being, etc). 

What really drew me into the film was it's focus on the physicality of writing.  Being a writer myself, that really got me off in a strange sort of way, and forced me to consider writing in an entirely new light--which is always a good thing for the up-and-comer.  Cronenberg's early films are obsessively tactile, and I think his aesthetic really comes to a head in a special way with Naked Lunch, leading up from Scanners, Videodrome, and The Fly, of course.  He essentially took an unfilmable novel and made a masterpiece out of it.  Where I think Burroughs and Cronenberg intersected is the dirtiness and filthiness of their work, both stylistically and conceptually. 

The entire film can actually be streamed free of charge here, if anyone is interested and has a few hours to kill:

www.hulu.com/naked-lunch


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Other considerations:Taste

Other considerations:

Taste of Cherry (1997):  A very obscure Iranian film by Abbas Kiarostami.  It takes the concept of neo-realism and pushes it to (even past) the brink.  Such a powerful, minimalistic film.  This is not for the casual movie-watcher, though--the few people I know who have actually seen it absolutely adore it, but this is probably one of those that would bore the unsuspecting viewer to tears. 

Repo Man (1984):  Most people initially got into this film for the soundtrack--it featured then-up-and-coming L.A. hardcore bands such as Suicidal Tendencies, The Circle Jerks, Fear, Black Flag, and The Plugz.  This is actually Emilio Estevez at his most tolerable (he's actually pretty hilarious throughout).  Harry Dean Stanton nails it as usual, of course.  It's just an extraordinarily funny sci-fi sort of movie in the vein of Return of the Living Dead. 

Mysterious Skin (2004):  The most poignant and beautiful film about sexual abuse of all time, in my opinion.  Perfectly cast, masterfully adapted from the novel, and directed reverently yet brutally honest by Gregg Araki. 

Inauguration of the Pleasure Dome (1954):  I've always felt that Kenneth Anger was consistently 20 years ahead of his time, and it was never more apparent than here.  A cornerstone of non-narrative art film.  Completely decadent and blissed-out. 

The Last Wave (1977):  I've been obsessed with Peter Weir since the moment I saw Dead Poets Society.  I gradually worked my way backward through his filmography, and eventually stumbled upon this gem.   For whatever reason, I always connect Weir's films with Plato's Republic, and this is no exception.  There's probably no connection in reality, but that's beside the point--this film explores indigenous religion in juxtaposition to modern society in a way that no other film did before or after. 

I'm sure more will come to me later.

 


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More favorites...

I agree with a lot of the other posters... I just watched Repo Man last night, for the umpteenth time... it's a classic.

Bubba Ho Tep...yes, absolutely the best Elvis vs The Mummy movie of all time...

 

Ok, a few more...

Kissed (Can 1996)

A tasteful even eloquent exploration of necrophilia.

The Gods Must be Crazy ( Botswana 1980)

A true classic. Bushman meets the modern world in the form of a coke bottle...

Angel Heart (US 1987)

Louis Cypher has been my online nick for most of 14+ years....

 

LC >;-}>

 

 

 

Christianity: A disgusting middle eastern blood cult, based in human sacrifice, with sacraments of cannibalism and vampirism, whose highest icon is of a near naked man hanging in torment from a device of torture.


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Kevin R Brown

Kevin R Brown wrote:

Quote:
Ginger Snaps (Can 2000):

Lycanthropy as a metaphore for puberty...

I don't think a better werewolf movie has been made.

 

Ginger snaps is one of my favourite movies but I'd say Dog Soldiers is a great contender as well Smiling

 

I don't know if this really counts as a "little known" movie.  I'm only going on the experience that almost no-one I speak to has seen it:

Brotherhood of the Wolf - a french retelling of the beast of gevaudan story (inspiration for hound of the baskervilles).

This movie was summed up by a friend calling it the best "period drama indian martial arts werewolf conspiracy" movie he'd ever seen.  This was the same guy that recommended Reign of Fire as the best post-apocalyptic dragon movie I'd ever see.

 

M

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- Lawrence Krauss


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jmm wrote: Mysterious Skin

jmm wrote:
 

Mysterious Skin (2004):  The most poignant and beautiful film about sexual abuse of all time, in my opinion.  Perfectly cast, masterfully adapted from the novel, and directed reverently yet brutally honest by Gregg Araki. 

Mark my words, Joseph Gordon Leavitt wil win an Oscar. He is one of the most phenomenal young actors (Brilliant in "Mysterious Skin" and "Brick), and he has the guts to pick movies that will actually challenge the audience rather than trading on his looks.

"Faith, Faith is an island in the setting sun,
but proof, proof is the bottom line for everyone."
Proof, Paul Simon

Nothing this hard should taste so beefy.


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JustAnotherBeliever

JustAnotherBeliever wrote:

brick...

Ooh, I forgot about Brick.  That was great.

 


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This is great. I'm so

This is great. I'm so putting those I haven't seen at the top of my Netflix queue.

I've seen quite a few of them, but some I've never even heard of. (Like "Ginger Snaps," which is first in line.)

A couple more interesting ones:

Closetland. Alan Rickman at his creepiest, and an excellent, disturbing movie, though perhaps just a little preachy.

Night of the Hunter. Yeah, it's a fairly well-known classic, but I thought I'd mention it anyway, as few people have actually seen it. Plus, it has a truly scary preacher-character.

The Ref is perhaps one of the greatest Christmas movies of all time. The ending is only believable if you take your suspension-of-disbelief pills beforehand, but it's still well worth it.

Bottle Rocket. This launched the careers of Wes Anderson and the Wilson brothers, and very few people have ever seen it.

Heavenly Creatures. Definitely Peter Jackson's best movie, and one of the best movies ever made.

Millers Crossing. The best gangster movie ever made.

And of course, Ghost World. It has Steve Buscemi, and that's enough for you.

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Wow

You guys like some sucky sucky ass movies....

 

 

So many 2 star movies....

 

Ill give you some good little seen movies....

 

True Romance......

 

City of God........

 

-----old boy was a good pick though------

 

 

"When the missionaries arrived, the Africans had the Land and the Missionaries had the Bible, They taught us how to pray with our eyes closed. When we opened them, they had the Land and we had the Bible." - Jomo Kenyatta


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Louis_Cypher wrote:Ginger

Louis_Cypher wrote:

Ginger Snaps (Can 2000):

Lycanthropy as a metaphore for puberty...

Crash ( US 1996):

Sex and automobile crashes, or automobile crashes AS sex ...

Very odd that you should mention these two together.  I posted a short blog on myspace after I saw Ginger Snaps.  In it, I compared the movie to an auto accident.  I didn't feel like I ought to be so fascinated by the movie, but I couldn't stop watching it.

Oh, and you're right.  Lycanthropy as a metaphor for puberty is really cool.

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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MichaelMcF wrote:This movie

MichaelMcF wrote:

This movie was summed up by a friend calling it the best "period drama indian martial arts werewolf conspiracy" movie he'd ever seen.  This was the same guy that recommended Reign of Fire as the best post-apocalyptic dragon movie I'd ever see.

 

A hahahahah! Brotherhood of the Wolf was pretty decent for an  aaction movie. Reign of Fire...lame, although the British Pacifist/American Psychopath duality was played up nicely.

“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” Yoda


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HeyZeusCreaseToe wrote:A

HeyZeusCreaseToe wrote:

A hahahahah! Brotherhood of the Wolf was pretty decent for an  aaction movie. Reign of Fire...lame, although the British Pacifist/American Psychopath duality was played up nicely.

Reign of Fire did suck a huge amount of ass.

 

If I can suggest another great non A-list film that'll get me some ridicule... Baz Luhrmann's Strictly Ballroom.  I don't care what anyone says, I think that movie rules.

 

M

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- Lawrence Krauss


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I personally like Reign of

I personally like Reign of Fire...My son and I watch it...he is 4 and loves it maybe that is why I like it too...who knows...

 

But I never seen any Baz Luhrmann movie besides Romeo + Juliet (which I loved) I like his unique directing style and queued all his movies on netflix.

 

By the way....some more awesome movies that are overlooked...

 

The King of Kong

The Warriors (not so much over looked by maybe missed by some of the younger people here)

Killing Zoe

Knightriders (sorry had to give love to my man Romero for a movie most havent seen....maybe it is not great but I love Romero)

"When the missionaries arrived, the Africans had the Land and the Missionaries had the Bible, They taught us how to pray with our eyes closed. When we opened them, they had the Land and we had the Bible." - Jomo Kenyatta


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I really enjoyed Closure

I really enjoyed Closure (aka UK=Straight Heads) with Gillian Anderson. It's a newer movie but then again any movie with Gillian Anderson topless works for me.

"Always seek out the truth, but avoid at all costs those that claim to have found it" ANONYMOUS


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Schizopolis (1996):  Steven

Schizopolis (1996):  Steven Soderbergh has made a career of straddling the fence between Hollywood blockbusters (the Oceans series)  and art-house experimentation (sex, lies & videotape, Bubble), and this little head-fucker is the epitome of the latter.  It may actually be the most pretentious American film ever made, but that's okay--it knows that it is, and it's fine with that.  It also may be the weirdest.  This film more than just about any other really captures the quirkiness and weirdness of the 90s.

Herz aus glas (1976):  Director Werner Herzog hypnotized the entire cast before each take, and it shows--it could have been a huge, masturbatory flop, but it actually works.  The opening 10 minutes is among my favorite opening scenes in cinema history (along with Apocalypse Now)--an 18th century Bavarian prophet sits on a tree stump, staring a million miles into the distance with yodeling in the background.  He then recites a cryptic destruction/creation myth as one of the most visually rapturous scenes in film history unfolds, brought to crescendo by the fittingly named German band Popol Vuh (named after the Mayan creation myth).  I cannot recommend this film enough. 


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Beat this, Hollywood schlock studios!

When I saw this at the video store, at first I thought it was probably just another poor excuse for a horror movie.  I am very glad to have been wrong, as this movie is one of the best examples of the genre, with both psychological aspects and goriness aplenty!

The Descent

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0435625/

 

Also, a leading cast consisting entirely of women and NO NUDITY!  So rare!


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Quote:Louis_Cypher

Quote:

Louis_Cypher wrote:

Ginger Snaps (Can 2000):

Lycanthropy as a metaphore for puberty...

 

Wasn't that already done in Teen Wolf? Eye-wink

 

Let's see... good movies that aren't very well known... hum.. hum...

 

I'm going to recommend Real Genius to those who may not have seen. Movie cracks my shit up. It's about some college students that get tricked into building a death ray by a corrupt college professor. Very funny, and with a distinct nerd flavor!

 

The Boondock Saints was a good suggestion. Tip for this movie: Drink every time someone says the word fuck! (If you want to be drunk in five minutes)

 

Out Cold. A movie about a small town of party animals in Alaska that like to drink and then go snowboarding. Extremely hilarious. I'm actually hoping someone tells me this movie doesn't count as little-known, because it's amazing to me that everyone I introduce to it has never heard of it.

 

Strange Brew. All the beer and funny Canadian stereotypes you can possibly handle.

 

Army of Darkness. This is a forum full of nerds and intelligent people, so I'm sure most of us have seen it at some point. Still, it's a cult classic. In the event that someone hasn't seen it. RENT IT. The best pseudo-horror film ever made, but also gives you a jolt of that badass Bruce Campbell manliness.

 

Cannibal! The Musical. A film by Trey Parker and Matt Stone that they shot while in college, later picked up and released by Troma Films with new scenes and DVD features. It's about a rag-tag group of miners that strike out west to try and make it big, only they end up getting lost in the wilderness, and.. well... there is cannibalism involved, obviously. Based on a real legend! It's a little slow-paced after a while, but it's pretty funny and worth a view if you're looking for something different. You'll sing some of the songs for days.

 

The Legend of Drunken Master. (1994) Probably my favorite foreign Jackie Chan film. The weird ass shit he executes while fighting drunk is among the most creative fight scene choreography I've ever seen from him. Do NOT confuse this recommendation with the mere "Drunken Master", which is also a Jackie Chan film from 1976, which is boring and sucks. I made that mistake for you. Don't let my foolishness go to waste.

 

Lonestar State of Mind. A surprisingly amusing comedy about a 20-something Texan named Earl who is trying to start a life with a girlfriend who has accidentally become his sister (their parents met, fell in love, and got married first) while simultaneously trying to save his idiotic cousin's life after a local bully named Tink---who is the hilarious scene stealer in this film---gets him wrapped up in some serious gang crime.

 

That's all I can think of for now!

A place common to all will be maintained by none. A religion common to all is perhaps not much different.


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Aqua_Seal wrote:When I saw

Aqua_Seal wrote:

When I saw this at the video store, at first I thought it was probably just another poor excuse for a horror movie.  I am very glad to have been wrong, as this movie is one of the best examples of the genre, with both psychological aspects and goriness aplenty!

The Descent

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0435625/

 

Also, a leading cast consisting entirely of women and NO NUDITY!  So rare!

That was actually an incredible movie for what it was.  I went in with no expectations and came out relatively blown away.  I think it was one of the best mainstream horror films of the decade. 


nutxaq
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Aqua_Seal wrote: Also, a

Aqua_Seal wrote:
 

Also, a leading cast consisting entirely of women and NO NUDITY!  So rare!

That's not much of a selling point.

"Faith, Faith is an island in the setting sun,
but proof, proof is the bottom line for everyone."
Proof, Paul Simon

Nothing this hard should taste so beefy.


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nutxaq wrote:Aqua_Seal

nutxaq wrote:

Aqua_Seal wrote:
 

Also, a leading cast consisting entirely of women and NO NUDITY!  So rare!

That's not much of a selling point.

 

Haha, yes. Please direct me to the movie that has a cast consisting entirely of women who are nude with persistent regularity.

A place common to all will be maintained by none. A religion common to all is perhaps not much different.


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Archeopteryx wrote:nutxaq

Archeopteryx wrote:

nutxaq wrote:

Aqua_Seal wrote:
 

Also, a leading cast consisting entirely of women and NO NUDITY!  So rare!

That's not much of a selling point.

 

Haha, yes. Please direct me to the movie that has a cast consisting entirely of women who are nude with persistent regularity.

"Catfight Gang Bang" Parts 1-infinity. 

"Faith, Faith is an island in the setting sun,
but proof, proof is the bottom line for everyone."
Proof, Paul Simon

Nothing this hard should taste so beefy.


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Two Words: Altered States

Two Words: "Altered States." A very interesting, rather psychedelic movie about skepticism and maverick science and the attempt to replace a defunct concept of God with something else that's more human. As the main character puts it: "Ever since we've dispensed with God we've got nothing but ourselves to explain."

 

Any one ever see www.filmatheist.com/  ? Film reviews from an atheistic perspective.

“It is true that in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. It is equally true that in the land of the blind, the two-eyed man is an enemy of the state, the people, and domestic tranquility… and necessarily so. Someone has to rearrange the furniture.”


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nbt: Never Been ThawedHas

nbt: Never Been Thawed

Has anyone seen it?  Funny for several reasons.


kellym78
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Nigel--I'm totally pissed

Nigel--I'm totally pissed that you got to Heavenly Creatures before me. Bastard.

Half of these movies are mainstream...I thought the idea was "little-known?" I did see True Romance mentioned, another awesome flick. I also saw Crash, which made me want to shoot myself in the eye.  Two thumbs down.

Alright, some of my suggestions would be somewhere in between mainstream and indie---Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, I <3 Huckabees, American Psycho, Garden State, Memento, I can't remember anymore ATM. More updates as they occur to me.


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kellym78 wrote:Nigel--I'm

kellym78 wrote:

Nigel--I'm totally pissed that you got to Heavenly Creatures before me. Bastard.

Half of these movies are mainstream...I thought the idea was "little-known?" I did see True Romance mentioned, another awesome flick. I also saw Crash, which made me want to shoot myself in the eye.  Two thumbs down.

Alright, some of my suggestions would be somewhere in between mainstream and indie---Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, I <3 Huckabees, American Psycho, Garden State, Memento, I can't remember anymore ATM. More updates as they occur to me.

All of your picks are fairly mainstream
(edit, I guess you already said that. I'll shut up.), but I agree with you on all but "Huckabees", bunch of existentialist bullshit. Marky Mark was good though.

"Faith, Faith is an island in the setting sun,
but proof, proof is the bottom line for everyone."
Proof, Paul Simon

Nothing this hard should taste so beefy.