Al Qaeda Tape to Call for Use of WMD
Offline http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/FedCrimes/story?id=4941724
Should the U.S. and other western governments fire back with an official policy that if WMDs are set off by Islamic militants in our cities, our militarises will take the following actions:
The cities of Mecca and Medina will be destroyed, the citizens will be told to evacuate first, those that stay will die.
The Islamic religion will be banned. All mosques and Korans destroyed. All religious governments will be replaced with secular democracies. Anyone caught practicing this religion will be sent to prison.
I say they need to fire back this warning to Bin Laden. He will be the one responsible for the end of his religion if thousands of Americans are killed again.
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
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Offline This is starting to get close to "The only good <fill in current disliked race/follower of unpopular religion> is a dead <fill in current disliked race/follower of unpopular religion>"
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
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Offline At present though, the only terrorists with WMDs are Bush and the Israelis. No one else in the region is even close (unless they're buying them from us).
"During the Persian Gulf War, those intelligence reports would come out: ‘Oh, Iraq? Incredible weapons. Incredible weapons.’ ”
“How do you know that?”
” ‘Well. Ha ha. Ah, we looked at the receipt. But as soon as that check clears, we’re going in.’ ”
Yep. That's us. We haven't changed much in the last few decades, except we got more paranoid, more aggressive, and more willing to use our power for evil, rather than good. Where else would all the weapons of the world come from, if not the country that spends more than the rest of the world combined on military? At least we got to make a profit on all that chemical weaponry we sold to Saddam Hussein, just before we invaded him for using it.
This whole WMD thing is nothing more than an emotional weapon the government uses to keep the populace worked into a frenzy. Personally, I thought it was getting old even before we went to war. It's definitely so old it's growing a greenish fuzz.
Here's my conspiracy theory (which I don't really believe, but fits the facts): bin Laden is still on the CIA payroll. That's right. He's still an American operative. That's why we haven't caught him yet. I think he's making these WMD statements because Bush is hell-bent on invading Iran, and he's trying to whip up a light froth on our cappuccino of fear. "Hey, Ossama, you old bastard! Wanna help out an old friend of the family? Yeah, there'll be a bonus in it for you. I just need you to make a tape that says something about WMDs."
I'm personally gonna ignore 'em. I don't care about terrorists. I'm more likely to die from boredom waiting for the next terrorist attack than I am to die in the next terrorist attack. Personally, I'm more frightened of our home-grown terrorists than I am a group from the Middle East. Sure, it's been a few years since OK City and the Unabomber and the mail-order anthrax. But the more the government makes it look like The End Of The World, the more likely it is some of our survivalist countrymen are to take advantage of it to bring about the necessity of survivalism.
Anyway, that's my rant. I don't think you're necessarily wrong, EXC. But I think you could do it a little more humanely. Just threaten to spray them all with a cocktail of pig urine and menstrual blood. It'd be cheaper, though collecting the blood might be kinda icky.
"Yes, I seriously believe that consciousness is a product of a natural process. I find that the neuroscientists, psychologists, and philosophers who proceed from that premise are the ones who are actually making useful contributions to our understanding of the mind." - PZ Myers
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Offline Cpt_pineapple wrote:Tell that to all the Muslims who died in 9/11.
I'm sure the few that were were considered collateral damage. They were Muslims that were doing business with the devil.
Oh goodie, speculation. A perfect thing to have when coming up with ideas like this.
Well don't strap the bomb to themselves or decide who to kill. The leader does this for them, these suicide people are just mindless sheep. The leaders (like Bin Laden) are too much of a coward to go on any martyrdom mission. Funny how Allah never calls him or the Jihad Imams to martyrdom.
Most suicide bombers come up with it themselves. Also most suicide bombers are forced due to threats on their family. Hey is their a pattern developing here?
Cpt_pineapple wrote:Really now? Are you willing to bet on that?
Sure, religious followers are sheep. Religious leaders are greedy, egoistical, cowards. They only become religious leaders for the power and money, not to risk their lives. So when you threaten the leader's money flow and lives, things will change, the sheep will follow.
The mistakes militarises have always made in the past is attacking civilians and low level soldiers instead of the leaders and propagandists.
Look at Imperial Japan, when the Emperor/god realized he may be next to be nuked, he gave up his war and god position. The sheep all followed.
Ah and here comes the generalizations. When a local construction company gets taken over by the mafia and don't report it to the Feds, are the owners sheep, or are they practicing self preservation?
Why do you keep bringing up Japan? 100+ thousand innocent civilians died when the U.S nuked it.
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First, I should say that I'm torn on this issue. It has something to do with the Stalin thread, where it seems impossible for some people to recognize the difference between acknowledging effectiveness and endorsing. My general feeling is that IF we want to win a war against Islam, then we should fight a war, not a mitigated police action. However, I'm not convinced that being at war with Islam is a great idea.
Well, IMO, that would drive some group to actually using WMDs on us. If we followed through and dropped tons of those Almost-Nuke buster bunker bombs all over the cities, and really did destroy them, it would lead to an all out war between the Middle East and the U.S. We have superior bombs, and we could probably pretty much destroy most of the infrastructure in the Middle East with moderate military losses.
If the goal is to destroy the Middle East, then yes, I think that policy would be very effective at causing the destruction of the Middle East. It's not like we would lose any favor in the international community. They all hate us anyway.
If you like the idea of starting WWIII, yes. It would be a good way to start a world war.
I think you need to review the history of big countries who tried to stamp out religions. The only empire that did it effectively was the Romans, and they did it by incorporating local religions into the state religion. I doubt you want to go there.
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
Absolutely, this is the perfect way to make the Arabic world to stop attacking us. After all, what possible reason would they have after we do that?
Yep, 'cause hey, that won't piss them off in any way or manner. I'm sure they're all change willingly and without incident.
Yeah, and fuck U.S foreign policy. Since it's their religion, we might as well do whatever the fuck we want in terms of foreign relations.
No. They will be the ones starting it. If they don't want WWIII, they need to shut down these WMD militants NOW. They are fortunate this didn't happen after 9/11. If the 2 towers collapsed immediately and killed 60,000 and they destroyed the White House, this may have happened. I'm not calling for extermination as Bin Laden is now doing, just the end of this religion if they can not control it's militant radicals.
They are programmed like little mindless robots to hate us. The religious police force them to hate us. I don't care if they hate us as long as they understand what will happen if they don't shut down their murderous militants.
OK, look at Imperial Japan. The Emperor was worshiped as a god, he was the religion for a war mongering, genocidal society. A couple of nuclear bombs and intense bombing of their cites ended that religion. Basically the US told Japan, change your ways or you will be exterminated. Those choose to change over death. The only mistake the US made was not telling the civilians to leave the cities before they were bombed.
Rome didn't have modern weapons at it's disposal. Rome had to fight a civil war with primitive weapons to destroy the local religions. Today, you would just tell the people no more militant religion or we destroy your cities. If that doesn't work there is no choice but to send them to meet Allah.
How many American/Europeans civilians would have to die before you agree with my position?
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
~sigh~
[Install BANG HEAD AGAINST WALL REPEATEDLY upgrade]
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
Who cares if they are pissed off? If they would be in prison they can't kill you. If they don't want this scenario, stop the militants NOW. The moderates let the militants use the mosques to recruit radicals.
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
Orrrr, you could just use military and/or police action to invade a few of those muslim countries and get this....pump out all their oil.
And when that thar ole is all gone, there won't be nothin' left but some fig trees and lots of sand.
I sorta felt like Dick Cheney there.
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
George Orwell
How about we develop alternative energy in a big way and eliminate them as an economic force. Oil isn't very nutritious if you drink it. All this takes is declaring energy self sufficiency to be a national emergency which it is. As we have the ability to supply far greater than our needs for food we actually have the key to the solution.
____________________________________________________________
"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me
"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.
If the US and its allies want to eliminate the threat of weapons of mass destruction being used against us they should...
Stop selling them to the people who would use them against us.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
I don't think oil has much to do with the desire of some to spread Islam via violence and intimidation. They spread this religion via violent means long before oil was discovered. Oil has just given the radicals money to build WMDs.
Islam has two faces, the good guy and the bad guys. 99% of Muslims are not into spreading the religion via violence, but then they work with the 1% Jihadists that will kill you if you don't convert. It's like the good cop, bad cop. You can join up with the good Muslims who will be nice to you if you convert. If you don't convert, you have to deal with the Jihadists that will kill the Infidel.
The "good" Muslims need to understand that if Mosques and the religion are used to recruit and plan WMD attacks, there will be no distinction between "good" and bad Islam. This type of religion that uses violence will need to be wiped from the face of the earth. And if they persist they will need to be eliminated.
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
Pastor Hagee, nice to see you posting here.
Seriously though, your ideas concern me more than a little.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Can you tell the difference between:
Islam Iman: "hey guys come on in! We'll hide ya!"
and
Terrorist to Iman:"Let us in and if you snitch we will kill your congregation and your family."
The second one is much more prevalent.
So... are we just going to give them directions to the prison and hope they don't take a wrong turn?
Yes I am feeling sarcastic today.
I suppose millions must die first before you'll change your mind. Maybe you'll be one of them and you won't have time to change your mind.
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
More like "Good" Muslim: "Leave the Jihadists alone and they won't bother us, they only kill infidels."
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
Millions are going to die anyway - why does America have to contribute bodies to the pile?
Me, I think we should pull out and let the people who are bound and determined to kill each other do it.
I just don't see how your idea of killing the people who aren't killing us for no other reason that we're treating all muslims the same is helpful.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
I never said that.
They need to know any religion that tolerates terrorism will be banned if there are WMD attacks on our cities. I said tell them to leave before their religious sites are destroyed. Killing is only an option against those who support terrorist ideology and refuse to change or submit to going to prison. If exterminating their religion is the only way to avoid WMD attacks, then it must be done.
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
Still some problems with your idea.
1. The only way to exterminate a religion is to exterminate all its adherents.
2. Change or submit? Sounds too much like "convert or die" from the Crusades.
3. From 2 - Christianity is also really tolerant of terrorism. Are the Christians included in this plan of yours?
4. Want to keep WMDs out of the hands of terrorists? Get America to stop selling them to them. Why address the users without paying attention to the pushers?
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
No, most people are only believers because of social and family tradition. In the Islamic world it is enforced by religious police. Only a few hard core fundamentalist would need to be imprisoned or killed. A religion that uses violence to spread itself is really a criminal gang or mafia.
The emperor worship in Imperial Japan was ended without exterminating everyone in Japan. All you have to do is threaten the leaders lives, these war mongering religions will end. Chop off the head, the beast will die.
Better they die than me.
If any organization permits the planning of criminal activity, it needs to be shut down at any cost. I don't want to let criminals use religion to hide.
Yes, there are greedy corporations that do this, they need to be stopped.
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
Interesting points. I still have questions.
On the "No, most people are only believers because of social and family tradition." - how do you propose to make this distinction? If I were a terrorist and wanted to stay alive and hidden in the country I was operating in, I'd lie my ass off in answer to any questions about how fervently I followed my religion (if I knew that death/imprisonment was the price I had to pay) in order to keep operating. Back to killing them all just to be sure...
"Better they die than me" - sounds a whole lot like the "We have to fight them there or we'll be fighting them here" paranoid garbage.
"I don't want to let criminals use religion to hide." - I'm not a big fan of them using atheism to hide either (see first point). I don't want my lack of belief to be a cause of my demise because some fool thinks I'm a terrorist.
On the greedy arms dealing government/corporate bastards - we agree. I still think stopping the supply would be more effective than stomping on the users. Attacking the users has worked so well in the War on (some) Drugs waged by America.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
You ask "Are any members your mosque conspiring to commit criminal acts, recruit terrorists, are the Imams preaching criminal activity?". If they lie, they go to prison and the Mosque is demolished.
Only the paranoid survive. But the paranoia must be based on facts.
The way Bush is fighting this war is Bullshit. It should be fought with spies, informants, and high tech information gathering. Not tanks, bombs and soldiers(at least at this point in time).
I don't think a terrorist would try to hide in an atheist organization. If terrorists were recruited and criminal activities planned, I think most rational atheists would report this criminal activity. In Islam they are not reported, this must change if Muslims what to keep their Mosques, Korans and religion.
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
1. Only if you have incontrovertible proof that it's going on - none if this "I thought I heard them planning to..." crap.
2. Paranoia isn't based on facts. If someone IS out to get you, it's not paranoia. whart Bush is doing is pissing people off and then saying "they're coming to get us"
3. I never said that they'd hide in an atheist organization. I don't want to be considered a terrorist because I don't believe in a God. the fundies are creating that kind of environment anyway - why help them?
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
In the age of terrorist with WMDs anything suspicious must be reported. That's why you have Grand Juries, to sort out evidence to see if their is probable cause to arrest someone. Problem is you don't have much of a justice system in the Middle East.
There are some that are, that's why Al Quada is releasing this tape.
His job as well as the CIA and military is to be paranoid, but to get the facts strait before acting. He never got the facts strait. We have a big problem with intellegence gathering. This problem needs to be fixed, but not the policy of going after anyone that harbors terrorists.
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
At present though, the only terrorists with WMDs are Bush and the Israelis. No one else in the region is even close (unless they're buying them from us).
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Tell that to all the Muslims who died in 9/11.
Yeah, cause people who are willing strap bombs to themselves are afraid to die.
Really now? Are you willing to bet on that?
This topic is starting to scare the living shit out of me.
I'm sure the few that were were considered collateral damage. They were Muslims that were doing business with the devil.
Well don't strap the bomb to themselves or decide who to kill. The leader does this for them, these suicide people are just mindless sheep. The leaders (like Bin Laden) are too much of a coward to go on any martyrdom mission. Funny how Allah never calls him or the Jihad Imams to martyrdom.
Sure, religious followers are sheep. Religious leaders are greedy, egoistical, cowards. They only become religious leaders for the power and money, not to risk their lives. So when you threaten the leader's money flow and lives, things will change, the sheep will follow.
The mistakes militarises have always made in the past is attacking civilians and low level soldiers instead of the leaders and propagandists.
Look at Imperial Japan, when the Emperor/god realized he may be next to be nuked, he gave up his war and god position. The sheep all followed.
This topic is starting to scare the living shit out of me.
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen