On the consequences of "Romantic Genius"

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On the consequences of "Romantic Genius"

         Recently in my British literature class we were discussing Wordsworth. During the lecture, our professor mentioned the idea of "Romantic Genius" which is roughly when someone, usually an artist, sits in one spot waiting for an epiphany of artistic brilliance. In those days, (and even today) the idea of editing and drafting and mulling over a piece of art, writing let us say, was shied away from. In its place, there rested the notion that creative genius came in bus loads, or not at all; there was no in between, you either had genius or you didn't. There should be no change in the initial artistic product, and it should be regarded as something spiritual almost.

Why am I telling you all this? Well, here it goes:

Ever heard of the terms 'sky hook' and 'crane' typically used in an evolutionary context? Well if you have, then here is my argument. If you haven't here's a nutshell terminology lesson for the two terms:

sky hook: The metaphorical lifting involved in creating or accomplishing some task (whether it be a mere adaptation or an entirely new creation) is performed by a "magical" or "miraculous" event similar to the idea of a crane magically appearing to lift an iron beam 40 stories in the air; it's miraculous and unexplainable.

crane: The same metaphorical lifting process, but performed by small increments and observable, natural mechanisms. The main idea behind this is that no miracle is needed in order to accomplish the lifting task. All that is required is the performing of a small simple function, in order to bring about the eventual outcome: the product of a seemingly miraculous sequence accomplished entirely by natural means.

Why Romantic Genius Sucks:

The idealization of the "Romantic Genius" is strikingly similar to the idealization of creation via a sky hook. Both rely on strokes of brilliance that are non-reproducible and take no work to create other than their miraculous conception. This, in my opinion, is a bad way to view the genius of artistic creation. Viewing artistic creation in this way, I believe, hinders individuals from working at their artistic development if they incur problems along the way. If the classic view of Romantic Genius were not such a large influence today, then I believe that there would be a greater influx of quality artistic creation.

By viewing artistic genius in the sky hook, "Romantic Genius" manner, this creates the impression that there is nothing one can do if there is not immediate, or only subtlety delayed, artistic strikes of lightning. For this reason, I find that a crane based view of the production of artistic genius would result in more artistic output, and output of a higher developing caliber.

Creative Genius via Cranes:

Viewing artistic creative genius in a crane manner allows for their to be a development of artistic ability and proficiency. For example, take creative writing. If a student wants to pursue writing creative works, but has difficulty in producing the first few, then the student may become disenchanted because the creative genius did not come automatically. However, in a crane building framework, where work is done and small progress is made towards achieving artistic merit, the student can work at their writing ability over time and eventually reach their goal. The benefits of following a crane creative framework far out weigh the traditional Romantic Genius framework because genius is demystified and creative goals are attainable through incremental progress and effort.

Conclusion:

Thus, creative genius becomes comparable to natural genius (feats of evolutionary adaptation). The adaptability of on organism is no different than the cultivation of creative ability in the human mind. By freeing our minds from the Romantic era dogma of Romantic Genius, the human race can more fully explore its creative potential. It may take a little effort, but that is how the physical world works.

The implication that we should put Darwinism on trial overlooks the fact that Darwinism has always been on trial within the scientific community. -- From Finding Darwin's God by Kenneth R. Miller

Chaos and chance don't mean the absence of law and order, but rather the presence of order so complex that it lies beyond our abilities to grasp and describe it. -- From From Certainty to Uncertainty by F. David Peat


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Quote:The adaptability of on

Quote:
The adaptability of on organism is no different than the cultivation of creative ability in the human mind.

There is a difference.  If a few genes are "incorrect," the entire organism will die, or simply not live in the first place.  If a book is stylistically immature, it is subject to interpretation, and might be popular anyway.  In essence, you're comparing genes and memes.  Where this analogy fails is that the inherent truth of a meme is not relevant to its reproductive success.  For genes, their ability to produce a living being (their "truth&quotEye-wink is crucial.

I see what you're saying, and I agree in general with the philosophical accuracy of your statement.  People could probably produce "better" art if they spent more time improving their skill in baby steps.  However, this is a generalization, and is not true in every instance, and your analogy is not exactly valid.

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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Hambydammit wrote:Quote:The

Hambydammit wrote:

Quote:
The adaptability of on organism is no different than the cultivation of creative ability in the human mind.

There is a difference.  If a few genes are "incorrect," the entire organism will die, or simply not live in the first place.  If a book is stylistically immature, it is subject to interpretation, and might be popular anyway.  In essence, you're comparing genes and memes.  Where this analogy fails is that the inherent truth of a meme is not relevant to its reproductive success.  For genes, their ability to produce a living being (their "truth&quotEye-wink is crucial.

I wasn't conscious of the genes and memes correlation, but I see the general direction that you are pointing to. Also, I do see your point that a faulty work of art may still be popular. However, I think it is important to point out that popularity is not an indication of genius; popularity is just a sign that people like your art for whatever reason.

Quote:

I see what you're saying, and I agree in general with the philosophical accuracy of your statement. 

Many thanks.

Quote:

People could probably produce "better" art if they spent more time improving their skill in baby steps.  However, this is a generalization, and is not true in every instance, and your analogy is not exactly valid.

Indeed, very true. My generalizing was a concern, but I overlooked it for the sake of putting my ideas down on paper. I really appreciate your feedback and criticism hamby. Thanks.

 

The implication that we should put Darwinism on trial overlooks the fact that Darwinism has always been on trial within the scientific community. -- From Finding Darwin's God by Kenneth R. Miller

Chaos and chance don't mean the absence of law and order, but rather the presence of order so complex that it lies beyond our abilities to grasp and describe it. -- From From Certainty to Uncertainty by F. David Peat


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Quote:However, I think it is

Quote:
However, I think it is important to point out that popularity is not an indication of genius

Here's where you're going to run into issues with your analogy.  There are lots of people in music, for instance, who are widely regarded as geniuses, but are not popular.  There are also people who couldn't compose their way out of kindergarten and end up with millions of people loving their songs.  What is the purpose of music?  Is it to make compositional advances, or to entertain people?  I can let you listen to some music with cutting edge compositional techniques that sound like shit.  I can let you hear some of the best musicians in the world playing incredibly difficult music that you'll hate.

In short, the purpose of art, while not completely arbitrary, is somewhat subjective.  Therefore, any statement about a particular piece of art being better or worse is going to be necessarily subjective, where natural selection has concrete results.  So, not only are you dealing with memes, which are not truth-dependent, you're also dealing with art, which, if you haven't noticed, is damn hard to even define, much less objectively evaluate.

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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Hambydammit

Hambydammit wrote:

Quote:
However, I think it is important to point out that popularity is not an indication of genius

Here's where you're going to run into issues with your analogy.  There are lots of people in music, for instance, who are widely regarded as geniuses, but are not popular.  There are also people who couldn't compose their way out of kindergarten and end up with millions of people loving their songs.  What is the purpose of music?  Is it to make compositional advances, or to entertain people?  I can let you listen to some music with cutting edge compositional techniques that sound like shit.  I can let you hear some of the best musicians in the world playing incredibly difficult music that you'll hate.

In short, the purpose of art, while not completely arbitrary, is somewhat subjective.  Therefore, any statement about a particular piece of art being better or worse is going to be necessarily subjective, where natural selection has concrete results.  So, not only are you dealing with memes, which are not truth-dependent, you're also dealing with art, which, if you haven't noticed, is damn hard to even define, much less objectively evaluate.

 

 

Very good point hamby. I had leering doubts in the back of my mind whenever I made judgement calls in what I wrote pertaining a work of artistic genius. I totally agree with what you in respect to how the analogy breaks down. I suppose that the only point of comparison between biology and art would be the use of the terms sky hook and crane. In a mere process similarity, I think the analogy can still hold, but without incorporating any type of judgement call in relation to the outcome of an artistic output. Great feedback and much appreciated. I hope more people chime in on this in the future.

The implication that we should put Darwinism on trial overlooks the fact that Darwinism has always been on trial within the scientific community. -- From Finding Darwin's God by Kenneth R. Miller

Chaos and chance don't mean the absence of law and order, but rather the presence of order so complex that it lies beyond our abilities to grasp and describe it. -- From From Certainty to Uncertainty by F. David Peat


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Quote:In a mere process

Quote:
In a mere process similarity, I think the analogy can still hold

Right.  There are analogous equivalents to cranes and skyhooks in the development of artistic ability.  Beyond that, it's just poetic.

 

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Hambydammit wrote:  Beyond

Hambydammit wrote:

 

 Beyond that, it's just poetic.

 

Haha. Well said.


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Going back to the original

Going back to the original skyhook/crane distinction in regards to creative inspiration: There is something to the skyhook idea, though it may not be what you think. It is not that ideas magically pop into your head, it is that there are certain minds that generate a lot more ideas than others, such that it *appears* that the ideas come out of nowhere. What is the difference between creative genius minds and normal minds? That's the real question, and that's where I think there is some validity to the idea of genius. I actually don't think it's that hard to reproduce genius. There are various techniques that can put you in a creative mindset where ideas just seem to flow out of you. It is not simple, like: follow this recipe and watch the ideas flow. It's not as easy to explain as that. But it *is* possible to explain, it just takes more work and one-on-one discussion.

The core comes back to what I call the intuitive mindset. In many ways, this is similar to the infuriating mindset of the theist or the postmodernist who believes in paradoxes and whatnot, but it doesn't have to be that way. There is an underlying intuition that ALL humans have. I define intuition as the brain's natural ability to make pretty good guesses. The intuitive mindset is when you lean heavily on intuition and not so heavily on skepticism. Just let ideas float up into your conscious awareness. It takes practice and I don't expect this one post to be able to adequately explain it.

Think back to when you were a kid and daydreaming just seemed to spontaneously happen. It's very similar to that. Where did those daydreams come from? You didn't think them, they just arose from your intuitive subconscious. Later on, you may have learned how to control your daydreaming, you may have even learned how to direct it for a specific purpose. You gain this control by introducing some skepticism to it. Over time, you begin to rely on this control and the daydreams become less spontaneous. But they also become less creative. Going back to the intuitive mindset means to let go of some of that control to allow your intuition to become more spontaneous and creative. It's actually not that easy, but it becomes easier with practice.

One way to bring it back is to start listening to your gut a bit more, or that inner voice, that first instinct. That's your intuition. As rationalists, we tend to reject our initial intuitions as biased and untrustworthy. And they are. You can't intuit a logic puzzle without applying some rules to your logic. Rules equal control/skepticism. But when we're talking about art, the skepticism can get in the way of some real creative insights. You can't logic a painting or a poem. If you do, it will be pretty boring.

Another way to strengthen your intuition is to play with it. Play games that require association and metaphor, like charades or something like that.

Yet another way is to practice using an intuitive system, which is what most religions are, but you don't have to actually become religious to do this. One example intuitive system that I like to play with is the yin yang duality system. Look for things that are opposing dualities, like light dark, many one, active passive, male female, etc. Then match them up according to your own intuitive associations. E.g. active matches male and passive matches female, so active passive matches male female. Then, look out into the real world and try to see the patterns of duality. If you allow yourself to, you will intuitively see them everywhere. The intuition naturally works that way, with dualities. Watch a good movie and you'll start to see these dualities in action as part of the drama (directors and writers tend to think intuitively too, so they put dualities in their art). Then you'll see the dynamics of the system. Opposites oppose, but then fuse to create something greater, a resolution of sorts. This is the idea of dialectics, which is a related intuitive system: thesis, antithesis, synthesis.

Yet another way to experience the intuitive mindset is to try marijuana or mushrooms (if it's legal where you are ;  ). You don't need a lot and they are quite safe if you do them in a safe environment. Certain drugs have effects that allow you to experience a more intuitive mindset than your daily routine. Don't rely on drugs to get the mindset, but they can at least give you a glimpse of what it is all about and how it works. Then you'll know it when you see it, so to speak, and the other intuitive practices will make more sense if they don't already.

So, my point is that it is possible to reproduce the creative mindset that I believe is associated with creative genius. Not to say that all your ideas will be great, but they will flow more easily, and you will be able to generate copious quantities of imaginative ideas, compared to other people. Thus, the appearance that 'creative genius' is a skyhook is just an appearance. There is a crane-like explanation for where genius gets all its ideas: intuition. The trick is to allow the intuition to flow, and not restrict it so much with self-doubt and self-criticism.

Of course, I remain a hardcore rationalist, I just think there are rational uses for the intuitive mindset.

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Quote:there are certain

Quote:
there are certain minds that generate a lot more ideas than others

This is the kind of view towards creative genius that I am against. How is that some minds have more ideas than other minds?

 

Quote:
such that it *appears* that the ideas come out of nowhere.

It seems like your explanation of intuition places the sky hook aparatus within the mind. Where do the ideas come from? Not consciously from the mind, but from an unconscious intuition. The unconscious part and the vague term of intuition, are what create this reservation I have towards your explanation.

Perhaps one thing that may work towards a resolution is whether you can explain whether the intuition, as you concieve it, could be described as a natural process? A crane-like process, in my mind, would need to be explainable as well as a natural process.

 

The implication that we should put Darwinism on trial overlooks the fact that Darwinism has always been on trial within the scientific community. -- From Finding Darwin's God by Kenneth R. Miller

Chaos and chance don't mean the absence of law and order, but rather the presence of order so complex that it lies beyond our abilities to grasp and describe it. -- From From Certainty to Uncertainty by F. David Peat


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jread wrote:Quote:there are

jread wrote:

Quote:
there are certain minds that generate a lot more ideas than others

This is the kind of view towards creative genius that I am against. How is that some minds have more ideas than other minds?

I'll answer your question, but first consider this: Is it not an obvious fact that some minds on this planet generate a lot more creative ideas than others? Need I only point to the scientists, Einstein, Newton, Feynman, etc. etc. I don't think it's disputable that certain minds do generate more ideas than others. You are correct to ask, 'how'.

Quote:
Quote:
such that it *appears* that the ideas come out of nowhere.

It seems like your explanation of intuition places the sky hook aparatus within the mind. Where do the ideas come from? Not consciously from the mind, but from an unconscious intuition. The unconscious part and the vague term of intuition, are what create this reservation I have towards your explanation.

I gave a very clear definition of intuition in my earlier post. It is the brain's natural ability to make pretty good guesses. How it does this remains a puzzle for neuroscientists. However, again, it is an indisputable fact that intuition as I've defined it exists. Somehow the brain has a natural ability to make pretty good guesses, without requiring conscious thought. It just works. That's intuition. I could go into more detail about how intuition functions, such as describing similarity/difference detection, association, pattern matching, conceptualization, etc. But raw intuition exists and there's nothing mysterious or vague about it.

Quote:
Perhaps one thing that may work towards a resolution is whether you can explain whether the intuition, as you concieve it, could be described as a natural process?

Of course it's natural. Didn't you see my username? Eye-wink

Intuition is a function of the neocortex. I'm not a neuroscientist, so I can't tell you the latest and greatest details on how the neocortex functions, but I have a very good book to recommend: On Intelligence by Jeff Hawkins (Amazon)

Basically, from what I get from the book, the neocortex is made of six layers of neurons like a sheet of crumpled paper stuffed in the skull. The neurons that make up the six layers form repeated units of vertical piles of a small number of neurons. Each of these piles (imagine the hex-shaped cells in a honeycomb) acts as a predictive unit. It learns the patterns of the other piles its connected to and produces its own predictive pattern in harmony. The neurons just naturally have this architecture and ability to perform this predictive function. My 'intuition' would essentially boil down to this fundamental process of prediction.

Again, it is the brain's natural ability to make pretty good guesses. I say 'pretty good' because there are known systemic flaws in intuition, such as the tendency to see minds where there are none (anthropomorphization), or the tendency to confirm your own existing beliefs (confirmation bias). Still, even with these systemic flaws, intuition works pretty well as far as survival advantage goes. That's how it was selected by evolution after all, it conferred the ability on animals with a neocortex to make better predictions of the world around them, outcompeting other animals with a less advanced brain/neocortex.

Rationality, on the other hand, is a system built on top of the basic intuitive building blocks, specifically with the purpose of correcting those in-built systemic flaws of intuition. That's why we have rules of logic and lists of fallacies to catch ourselves (fallacies are just names for systemic flaws of human intuition).

One of the key functions of rational thinking is to doubt your first intuition. Maybe the monster in the closet is really just shadows. That doubt is a kind of leash or control on your intuition. The more you doubt yourself (initially at least), the more you are able to correct your flawed intuitions. However, taken to an extreme, if you constantly doubt your intuition, like turning a tap from full blast down to just a drip, then you lose a lot of your creative power. You are discarding more ideas than you allow through your mental filters, and what you end up with is very few creative ideas. In your effort to stop being wrong, you inadvertently stop most of your creativity as well.

Quote:
A crane-like process, in my mind, would need to be explainable as well as a natural process.

The basic building block of the crane is basic, raw intuition. The brain's natural ability to make pretty good guesses. Or you could restate it as the brain's natural ability to come up with pretty good ideas. When you build a pretty good idea on top of another pretty good idea, and again on top of another pretty good idea, you start to develop pretty great ideas. The more skill you get at this, you are able to pop out really big ideas that seem to other people to have come out of nowhere. But they didn't come out of nowhere, they came out of a well-oiled intuition pump. That's the crane that appears to be a skyhook (to those who observe the genius, but can't see where he gets his ideas from).

Even the metaphors we are using here: Skyhook, intuition pump (thanks to Dennett), dripping tap, crane, etc. These metaphors all require forms of intuition to work (specifically association and analogy). There is no actual crane in my head, that's just a metaphor. Your brain has a natural ability to 'figure out' what the metaphor is referring to without you having to consciously make the connection. It just works. That's intuition.

Other examples of intuition: Your ability to tell someone's lying without being consciously aware how you know (I just don't trust him). Your ability to read body language (I think she likes me). Your ability to sense the mood of a crowd of people (maybe we should get out of here). Etc. Etc.

Here's a great example of intuition: Ever play Reach for the Top? It's a quiz game in school where a questioner reads questions and you buzz in to give the answer before the other team gets a chance. If you've ever seen talented kids playing the game, you will see that they often buzz in before the questioner has read the full question. Sometimes the questioner only reads a tiny fragment of the question. But still, the kid makes a 'pretty good guess' about what the question probably is, and then makes a snap judgment about his answer (there's a time limit after you buzz in, so you have to answer quickly), and poof, he comes out with the right answer. Both guessing the question and guessing the answer can rely heavily on intuition. Of course you need to know a lot of trivia, but that's not enough because of the tight time factor. Sometimes you just gotta guess, and the team with the most intuitive players usually win.

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