It's not really about debate at that point. She's 18 and forming a world view that just got jacked by "certainty". That's unassailable. It's really your call, though. I think if you were confrontational with her social group, the end result would be negative. If you talked to her about it alone, she might come over to the light slowly, but it would be a painful process for her.

I don't envy you the task!

I have to echo this. If you start fighting this right now, you'll create an adversarial relationship between you and your sister - and going to 'debate' with the cultists is playing into their hands. The point isn't going to be the content of the arguments - it's going to be that your sister will be arguing with them, against you, manufacturing a rift in your relationship. Your sister will then be face with a false dillemma; either 'joining' with you, isolated on your side of the fence, or staying in the warmth and company of her new 'benefactors'.

Let her know you care about her, support the decision, and - this really bears repeating - fucking be there if/when she has a crisis of faith and begins to doubt.

I've always wondered why, if the numbers who get to go to heaven are limited, do people keep on trying to recruit? If you ask a jehoobie about that they'll just deny that there's a limit on the number of people who get to go to heaven - that's the standard policy from which they work. But seriously - 144,000 people go to heaven, they get a better chance of going to heaven the more people they recruit - what if they recruit someone who wins over more souls than they do? Is it like a pyramid scheme, where you get credit for recruiting activity of people below you, or can you be bumped out of heaven by bringing in a big-time bullshit salesman?

There is no doubt in anyones mind whether I am atheist or not. My sister is well aware of my atheism and ridiculing the jw's was the main reason we don't talk much anymore. (To be completely honest she is my half sister, but we were/are close so we dropped the half, same father different mother) I guess you guys are right about a confrontation, but when it comes up(and it will) I refuse to deny that I am an atheist. I will try to be nice about it, but as far as I am concerned if they ask for it they get it. I am going to read "The God Delusion" again just to brush up. My grandma couldn't read it and gave it back. (surprisingly in one piece) I will try to be kosher, but if the worst happens I need some ammo. Which arguments do you guys find most effective?

JillSwift's advice about NOT becoming an adversary is spot on!

The Jehovah's Witnesses, like a lot of cults, will regard your sister as "vulnerable" to persuasion. They know - after all that is how they have her now. And hence also her (really their) "suggestion" that you meet them in fellowship to argue your case. At the very least they will obstruct you in any effort to persuade her to anything contrary to their wishes.

But that is not to say that you are wrong in what you plan.

Been there myself - not as a JW, I hasten to add -  but trying to rescue someone who had been sucked into all that codology. It took a lot of time (10 years) and I started off with more or less the same ambition and tactic as you seem to be planning, something that in my case simply prolonged rather than shortened the whole procedure. Hindsight is a useful thing, but rarely to he who has acquired it. So here's the benefit of mine.

First off I can assure you that your noble intention will go unrewarded, at least on this occasion, and especially if your intention is to speak sense to her. Of the many christian cults the JWs are on the loopier end of an already loopy scale in that they have a HUGE problem with the definition of truth. They have extracted a glossary of favourite bits from an Iron Age manuscript and are using it to decide not only their lifestyle but their rather self-justifying philosophy. The first thing your sister will have been encouraged to do is to distrust all other "truths" except those that originate from within her new group of associates. This is facilitated even more if there is a particular member of the group who she is particularly trusting of at the moment - a boyfriend/girlfriend/close relation etc etc, but if not they will have been sure to "buddy" her up with someone skilled at emulating that role in any case.

Ironically, one line she will have been given from early on is that satan makes his evil sound reasonable - in other words the more reasonable the statement, if it opposes the cult's own philosophy, the more satanic and evil it is. It is the ultimate in anti-intellectualism but it's amazing how many so-called intelligent people have succumbed to such stupid "logic". The upshot of it is that preparing your own arguments in advance simply marks you out to people induced with such paranoidly delusional thoughts as even more suspect and dangerous.

The other important device they use is a form of "persecution complex". They play very much on the notion that they represent people stigmatised by society and even claim commonality on that basis with other cults, even ones whose philosophy varies significantly from theirs. They do this to encourage the paranoia of their members but they do it also to strengthen the barrier between individual members and outside influences, such as yours. It is propagandically and administratively a master strategy since it makes them appear "inclusive" and "open" when they are anything but, and it saves them the trouble of researching each convert's individual experiences and social milieu in order to identify target "shut outs" like yourself (the strategy guarantees that the converts do it voluntarily from day one using the very human instinct to close ranks and defend the group you identify with).

What they will not do is converse about subject matter outside the parameters that have been set for them by their mentors. They will answer every question you ask them politely (often with pure gibberish). They will even constantly tell you that you are, of course, entitled to your view. But if you try to communicate directly with your sister without their presence they will try everything to prevent it. If it is unavoidable she will be given a "crash course" in evading facing reality and countering your anticipated arguments.

Putting it bluntly, short of kidnapping your sister they know that there is little or nothing you can do without them having an opportunity to counter it, corrupt it, deny it or otherwise invalidate and neutralise it. They are holding her so they are holding all the trump cards.

All except one.

You say that you and she were close. You and she must have a reservoir of shared experiences and common views formed before they got hold of her and which as yet she has not divulged to them. If you are going to "revise your homework" beforehand then it is this that you should be revising, not Richard Dawkins' or anyone elses's arguments. Approach your sister as a brother, not an atheist - even if she, you, and they find it difficult to talk about anything else. If you are lucky enough to share time with her outside of their influence and presence then use it to reintroduce her to the more rational frame of mind she had before she got mixed up with them. And above all, stress (as said above) that unlike them, you will always be there for her to help put herself back together should this prove to be a phase - however long it might be. She is getting emotional, social and interpersonal sustenance from these people that she obviously felt she lacked beforehand. But in that sense she is thinking like a typical 18-year old. Show her that it exists for her without all the mumbo-jumbo and mind-control conditions her new "friends" insist is part of the package. She's better than them (nearly any individual has to be), and should be told it.

I was really hyped up to go in ready to debate, but the more I think about it what you guys are saying makes sense. Debating will only reinforce the "persecution complex". (nice term, I usually use "martyr complex&quot  JillSwift is spot on with the pairing up and she expects to marry this guy from the church. (5 years her senior and still living with his parents, not in college) You are also right about our common views before she was hijacked. We used laugh at the idiots knocking on doors and I still got a giggle out of her when I told her not to drink the kool-aid. (something I used to say a lot when theists were trying shovel their shit on us) It also makes sense not to expect reason in a kingdom hall. She already knows how I feel, and she was an atheist before this, so hopefully she will eventually puke this bullshit up. We have started emailing back and forth and I let her know that I have a spare bedroom and that she is always welcome. Hopefully she will come visit during the summer and get a break from the nonsense. Thinking it through now I realize that the reason we quit talking to begin with was because I wouldn't stop ridiculing her attendance at the kingdom hall. The height of insanity is to do the same thing over and over and expect different results.(Einstein)

Looking back I think a major factor in this situation was her mom putting her in a private xtian school a couple years back. (I think that was a direct response to her atheism, but she was too young to move out back then, and our father died back in '97 so that wasn't an option) She was furious about it and gradually lost her social network. She never fit in at the xtian school, so she must have been pretty lonely. She would call me and tell me how much she hated it. I would reassure her that once she got to college she could do whatever she wanted. I was OTR (long haul) truck driving and wasn't around very often. Hmmm, the pieces are falling together......she does need her brother more than she needs a debate. I can't thank you guys enough for talking some sense into me.

She is a lier , why do they lie ?  Help them liars  .....

As an ex-JW, I can tell you exactly how the society operates.

Jehovah's Witnesses have a very sophisticate method of brainwashing and indoctrination that consists of:

The "studying", which is really just reading text and answering questions, where the answers are in the text. Most JWs just underline the answer in the text itself. This serves to get people to accept the answers that the Watchtower provides.

A lot of the questions are blatently misleading, too. For instance, in the book "Life-- how did it get here, by Evolution or by Creation", in Chapter 8, "Mutations -- A basis for evolution",  it asked the question "What have decades of experiments on fruit flies revealed?", but the answer in the book is falacious, misleading quote-mining.

This is nothing, though. There are a lot of questions phrased "how do we know" that something is true, or "why is the evidence for X overwealming?". Such questions phrased so that answering them in any way validates the assumptions in the questions themselves, and serves to focus people's attention on the answers that the society provides.

Another thing is repitition. They will repeat the same verses over and over again. This is a common brainwashing technique. For instance, she probably has already heard the scripture "bad associations spoil useful habits" (1 Cor. 15:33), and this scripture is used to justify the alienation of the victim's family, and serves to isolate them, as the only "good associates" can be found at the Kingdom Hall.

They also attempt to isolate the individual from the family. That is one of the biggest reasons why the don't allow Christmas, Birthdays, and other celebrations where families get together. (They even discourage "worldly" weddings -- weddings of people who are not JWs).

But the biggest way they indoctrinate you is through the massive amount of reading material. There are 5 meetings per week, and each person is encouraged to "study" for each of them. If you ACTUALLY did that, the meetings and studying would take up almost all your free time if you worked. Its impossible to keep up with all the reading material, so you just find "shortcuts" in studying, which means you don't take the time to understand and critically evaluate the material but accept what the society tells you.

Jehovah's witnesses are nice people and everything, but the cult is dangerous to families. I would suggest that she talk to some Ex-Jehovah's witnesses, before its too late. Of course, they could have already poisoned the well and she might believe that all ex-JWs are evil minions of Satan, apostates.  JWs are told to not even open letters of people who have left the society.