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Springs in the ocean?
Posted on: April 1, 2008 - 6:46pm
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Springs in the ocean?
I don't know if this should really go here or elsewhere, but here goes: The bible talks about springs under the sea in Job 38:16. My roommate claims that scientists didn't discover oceanic springs until centuries later. I was wondering if there was any truth behind that and how I should respond.
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I just checked out this site institute for creation research HAHA! and it talks about them in this short passage:
"Among the most thought provoking of God's questions to Job was, "Have you entered into the springs of the sea?" (Job 38:16a). The word for "springs" is NEBEK (transliterated from Hebrew), an unusual word referring to the places where water issues or bursts out of the earth. Job must have pondered this question with amazement, for although he had seen many springs on the land, he had no experience with undersea springs. Today we know why. The ocean is very deep; almost all the ocean floor is in total darkness; the pressure there is enormous. It would have been impossible for Job to have explored the "springs of the sea."
They go on to talk about deep sea vents as the actual springs of the sea verified by science fairly recently. Deep sea vents do indeed exist and per your roommate's logic, the bible said springs of the sea exists, therefore God exists(nanny-nanny-boo-boo!). This is pretty bad reasoning. If you read just the whole passage of Job chapter 38 there are quite a lot of incredible claims made by God such as the earth is set on an unmoving foundation(pillars in my bible), he can pick up the earth and shake the bad people out of it if he chooses,and if he wants to God can use snow and hail he has stored up for use in times of war and battle. If you believe one, you have to believe them all, and this is just one chapter in a book about the constant torture of Job for God's amusement( righteous and benevolent God indeed).
Skeptics annotated bible:Job Ch 38
This is a classic piece of cherrypicking the bible when one thing seems to correspond to another and "PROVE" it is a prophetic inspiration from God. I am sure there were freshwater hot springs around in the area of the middle east at the time of this verse's creation. I would say its not a stretch for the author of this passage to apply freshwater properties to ocean properties in a civilization where the earth was thought to be flat, have four ends, as well as being the center of the heavens(universe).
Conclusion:Total cherrypicking crap that proves nothing, especially not the existence of God, or the inerrancy of the bible.
Hope that helps.
“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” Yoda
Wow, thanks for that. It certainly does help.
No Prob.
The passage in its entirety actually provides a fantastic summary of a typical Iron Age human beings' perception of his physical environment. The earth, as described by god to Job when he brags about how he constructed it, parallels in design and function the constructual elements familiar to a society on the threshold of technological complexity but still very much grounded in limitations that keep it basic. The oceans in the description are controlled, like any rudimentary irrigation system, by doors and their contents sourced from springs. The earth, just like the accessible area to the intended reader (or listener, in its original transmission format) is finite. God uses the edges to shake sinners out of his patch. The whole universe is "made" by god just as the arable land and immediate environment is shaped by the intended audience, using the same construction techniques and of course employing the same language - after all, it was written by a human of the time too.
From an anthropological point of view the passage is extremely valuable and we should thank religious people for having gone to great pains to preserve it. Of course it should also serve as a salutary reminder, should we need it, that we should be grateful scientific rationale in the meantime has not only corrected many of the misconceptions contained in it, but has liberated us from the vulnerability those limitations imposed on us.
I would rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy
The next time the verse is brought up, tell the person to read 3 chapters further about dragons. That's right. Dragons.