Here is the proof of God's existence for those that have the guts!

sierra
Theist
Posts: 114
Joined: 2008-03-26
User is offlineOffline
Here is the proof of God's existence for those that have the guts!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTcZXb5wGDU

How do you explain the existence of the Virgin Mary and the scientfically proven miracles that have occurred at Fatima, Lourdes, Akita, Zeitun. If there is a Virgin Mary, then...Jesus, ya think? 100's of thousands see these miracles and you say there is no proof?

If you are sincerely seeking the truth, then you will find it. If you are working against God, then I am certain you will not respond to this message, and that will be proof that you are representing the "dark side" so to speak.


pauljohntheskeptic
atheistSilver Member
pauljohntheskeptic's picture
Posts: 2517
Joined: 2008-02-26
User is offlineOffline
sierra wrote:Its a simple

sierra wrote:

Its a simple question. Stop with the rhetoric.

 

I have a had many respond to my posts. I doubt very many will have the guts to answer this simple question.

 

So here it is again, rephrased:

 

If you knew, 100%, without a doubt the Jesus of the New Testament was real, and everything I have been saying is true, (regardless of how you knew it-PaulJohn), would you accept Him or deny Him?

 

 

A real Jesus does not equal everything you said is true. There are other possibilities. However if proof is supplied backed by science, testing, actual blueprints, detailed drawings of how the universe was constructed as part of Jesus' presentation that could be valid proof. It may be he isn't who he says he is and is actually from an advanced civilzation millions of years ahead of us.  I'm pne that thinks one man's miracle is anothers technology, so proof had better be extremely convincing. Atheists do not believe that god is real based on our reasoning there is no evidence. Evidence proving everything clearly changes the equations. As mentioned if the choice is a threat or acceptance there is no choice is there?

Even if Jesus was real that doesn't mean the Catholic Church's interpretation is correct. He could have been a rebel leader that thought he was the messiah promised to the Jews. You need to learn about Jewish belief. His statements about the Kingdom of God is at hand means something else entirely to them.

If I was going to be at all religious, I would more likely accept Judaism than Catholicism at this point. They have only one layer of smoke and mirrors. Christianity is a corrupt version of Paulinity, no basis. As a poster called I am God As you says, Jesus was an atheist. His posts can be strange but they have more reality and make more sense than Christian belief.

 

 

____________________________________________________________
"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me

"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.


sierra
Theist
Posts: 114
Joined: 2008-03-26
User is offlineOffline
albedo wrote:

sierra wrote:

---No, I do not know how many, I am new here. So, many have traveled through here barking a message? I am not like them. My message is different. In fact 179 or so posts in a little over 24 hours, not bad a for a new guy eh? Granted, about a 1/3 of those were mine. Anyway, my message has struck a nerve here.

 

Borderline argumentum ad populum. And a damn arrogant too.

 

---like you, was just trying to stir things up a bit, I guess we both missed.

 

I liked your answer by the way, it was well thought out and rational.

Regarding Matthew 6;5-6. I said get on your knees and pray in private, not publicly. I said that for a reason, powerful stuff happens!


albedo_00
albedo_00's picture
Posts: 153
Joined: 2008-01-19
User is offlineOffline
pauljohntheskeptic wrote:If

pauljohntheskeptic wrote:

If I was going to be at all religious, I would more likely accept Judaism than Catholicism at this point. They have only one layer of smoke and mirrors. Christianity is a corrupt version of Paulinity, no basis. As a poster called I am God As you says, Jesus was an atheist. His posts can be strange but they have more reality and make more sense than Christian belief.

Goddamned right! I AM GOD AS YOU is right on. god is within us, so bask into the awe of your mere existence, take pleasure from nature and little things, for god lives not in your temples, your churches or your mosques, he lives inside us, he is us. In one word, love not god, love thyself, you dumb idolaters.

Lenore, The Cute Little Dead Girl. Twice as good as Jesus.


I AM GOD AS YOU
Superfan
Posts: 4793
Joined: 2007-09-29
User is offlineOffline
GOD is a word for AWE, so

  GOD is a word for AWE

, so keep the awe, as in science and stop GODMA, or usually written DOGMA ..... of making shit up, and lying to my kids of the world ..... A better answer to our kids is,  "I Don't Know , no one does ....... and certainly not the religious freaking out on the AWE" ......    

I AM getting mad now , geezzz,  people lying to my kids ......  

Must I trash the temple of religion, as Jesus did ? again and again and again ..... YUP. Thanks for the clue, big J ..... and the SWORD ! 

Some ancients said the old Temple would be destroyed, to be eventually rebuilt ..... Ummm , yes ,  as we are ..... !  The temple of GOOGLE ! Consciousness , Science and Awaking !

   


sierra
Theist
Posts: 114
Joined: 2008-03-26
User is offlineOffline
albedo

Here is what actually occurred in regards to Our Lady of Guadalupe:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=cs80bzYGoI8

 

It has been investigated and approved by the Church. Many others have been investigated and condemned by the Church. I do not have the historical background on this, thus that is all I have for you at the moment. I will dig deeper into what you wrote and get back to you with more details soon.

 

 

 


pauljohntheskeptic
atheistSilver Member
pauljohntheskeptic's picture
Posts: 2517
Joined: 2008-02-26
User is offlineOffline
albedo_00

albedo_00 wrote:

pauljohntheskeptic wrote:

I am God As you says, Jesus was an atheist. His posts can be strange but they have more reality and make more sense than Christian belief.

Goddamned right! I AM GOD AS YOU is right on. god is within us, so bask into the awe of your mere existence, take pleasure from nature and little things, for god lives not in your temples, your churches or your mosques, he lives inside us, he is us. In one word, love not god, love thyself, you dumb idolaters.

Exactly!!

____________________________________________________________
"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me

"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.


sierra
Theist
Posts: 114
Joined: 2008-03-26
User is offlineOffline
albedo

okay, here is the link to refute all you have said regarding Our Lady of Guadalupe. Actual data with references on each!

http://fredtalk.fredericksburg.com/showthreaded.php?Number=1144366

and

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07043a.htm

 


sierra
Theist
Posts: 114
Joined: 2008-03-26
User is offlineOffline
KellyM wrote from my other banned thread:

You may want to read the rules before you continue your proselytizing. You are not permitted to start two threads with identical subject matter, no what the virgin Mary tells you. This thread is locked, and if you do this again you will be suspended or banned.

 

This is an official warning!

---Here is my response to you Kelly for your insulting welcome for a simple mistake:

Deleted by sierra out of consideration for the other curious minds on here.

 


Loc
Superfan
Loc's picture
Posts: 1130
Joined: 2007-11-06
User is offlineOffline
This morning I found 85 new

This morning I found 85 new responses here. Against better judgement , I'll come back, since it's still early and I'm in a pretty good mood.

sierra wrote:

---No, I do not know how many, I am new here. So, many have traveled through here barking a message? I am not like them. My message is different. In fact 179 or so posts in a little over 24 hours, not bad a for a new guy eh? Granted, about a 1/3 of those were mine. Anyway, my message has struck a nerve here. Why? Because deep down, many of you know its the truth. The others are simply denying God for whatever reason, that's between you and Him.

 I wouldn't feel so special. Go look at the threads of I-24 and Pasiley. Other new guys who wracked up hundreds of replies in a few days. The fact is, people on here like debating, and since it's unlikely the whole RRS will suddenly convert, it goes on for days.


 

sierra wrote:

 including LOC's 10 responses to evidence of God which was very well done I might add. 

Thanks by the way. Ahh recognition.But there were 15 you know

sierra wrote:

---Here is my response to you Kelly for your insulting welcome for a simple mistake:

http://www.smouch.net/lol/

Thanks you dick

Incidentally, you might want to learn to use the quote function. It makes it easier for everyone to know who your talking to/about. I'll even include a linkhttp://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/the_rational_response_squad_radio_show/general_conversation_introductions_and_humor/7011

Psalm 14:1 "the fool hath said in his heart there is a God"-From a 1763 misprinted edition of the bible

dudeofthemoment wrote:
This is getting redudnant. My patience with the unteachable[atheists] is limited.

Argument from Sadism: Theist presents argument in a wall of text with no punctuation and wrong spelling. Atheist cannot read and is forced to concede.


albedo_00
albedo_00's picture
Posts: 153
Joined: 2008-01-19
User is offlineOffline
sierra wrote:okay, here is

sierra wrote:

okay, here is the link to refute all you have said regarding Our Lady of Guadalupe. Actual data with references on each!

http://fredtalk.fredericksburg.com/showthreaded.php?Number=1144366

and

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07043a.htm

Allrighty then. First source: as you might have seen, it recounts many references of La virgen in ancient texts, 31 references to be exact. Keyword, of course, is references, many of them dating way, way after the event is reported to take place (12 Dic. 1531), and many of them being nothing more than personal accounts with no proof in them, other than the mere mention of a myth.

Of the 31 references: 6 are last wills and testaments and one is a letter of payment, the earliest of them dating 1559. All of them include references to the Virgin Mary or her Temple at the Hill of Tepeyac. No proof of her existence.

7 are annals whose historical accuracy must be called into question for two reasons: one, because they were writen by mexica scribes (tlacuilos) who were quite prone of mistaking their calendar with the Gregorian calendar. And two, because they were writen by tlacuilos who, as it was shown in the book Las Cronicas del Mexico Perdido (The chronicles of Lost Mexico, sorry if I can't post a link, there isn't one) mexican (mexica is a different, more specific term referring to a person from the Mexica tribe) scribes were also prone of embelishment and mixing their own cultural references into the texts. Also, as I have stated, VoG is most likely a sincretic deity of the spanish Guadalupe of Extremadura, and Tonantzin/Cuatlicue, mother of Huitziloposchtli. therefore, highly questionable to be considered conclusive proof.

Two of them are ex post facto testimonies, the Testimony of Andres de Tapia and Deposition by Juana de la Concepción, the second one is a sworn testimony taken in 1666. Suposedly important since her testimony "verifies" her relatives knew Juan Diego. Hear say and word of mouth for more than 130 years after the event is alleged to have taken place. Highly questionable.  Someone can sworn me in to testify if Plato really had big omoplates, and my "personal testimony" would be worth jack, since I haven't seen the guy personally.

The INVENTORY FROM LORENZO BOTURINI.  Recounts several canticles of a miraculous aparition, all of them consistent with bot the Guadalupan apparition, and the mith of Tonantzin, so, again, highly questionable.

CURIOUS NEWS OF BARTOLACHE.  Reference, no witness account of any kind.

Nican Mopohua.- Nothing but the translated story of the Guadalupan folk tale. Yet the site you mention claims that: "This document alone would be the one that provides all authenticity of the Guadalupan Event". By that logic, If I ever get my hands on a translated version of the Iliad, as taken from some ancient original scroll, then it must mean it was all true.

Most if not all of the rest fall into the same categories (hear say, not witness account, ex post facto testimonies and references), and/or are highly questionable as to bear any proof for the Guadalupan account. Interestingly enough, the guy who posted all this list finalized with this: Conclusion: Any historical discussion regarding the authenticity of Guadalupe will come to a stalemate.

If we were to take his word for it, then a stalemate would simply mean ""We don't know, and there is no way we can be 100% sure". Accepting this and still believe in the VoG would be an argument from ignorance, and that's a no-no as any rational person could confirm.

Regarding your second link, that's nothing but a bio on Juan de Zumarraga, and the only thing it contributes to this subject is that it calls into question my affirmation that he was in Spain being ordained Bishop when the alleged apparition took place. I remember seeing this argument debunked somewhere on a book I had, but it would take me some time to locate it, so in the meantime and until I can locate it I grant you this point.

However, those two links doesn't refute all I've said about La Virgen, you still haven't addressed the issue of the authenticity of the tilma. I'll repost what I said about it:

Well, what people don't take into account is the fact that the tilma being shown in the Basilica is only about 100 years old, and it was made by more modern means. Yep, the damn rag is a fake. As taken from this source: http://www.vrg.us/luevano/Escritos/Fraudevir..htm (Sorry it's in spanish) and as covered in the mexican newspaper El Universal, in 1895, the Abad Don Jose Antonio Plancarte y Labastida, called Father Plancarte (I just call him asshole) replaced the heavily decayed, fungus eaten tilma (miracles aren't made to last, apparently) with a newer version of it. Here's the punch line. He was in charge of amplifying the whole Basilica and organizing the upcoming ceremony to crown the Virgen of Guadalupe as the queen of Mexico. It seems he was in a bit of a hurry coning people off their money for doing this and whatnot, cuz he forgot one little detail of the tilma: the "original" showed the VoG wearing a crown. The Plancarte version was crownless! (and she was to be crowned in the upcomming ceremony, for geezus sake!!!)

In the coverage of El Universal of December 3, 1895, Plancarte's comments about the crownless Virgen were --wait for it-- "the crown disappeared by a miracle", and MOST of the people bought it up!!!!!! Yep, we have some dumbass fucking idiots down here in Mexico. --This last part I repost not because it adds to the argument, but just because it's true.


Lenore, The Cute Little Dead Girl. Twice as good as Jesus.


albedo_00
albedo_00's picture
Posts: 153
Joined: 2008-01-19
User is offlineOffline
sierra wrote:---Here is my

sierra wrote:

---Here is my response to you Kelly for your insulting welcome for a simple mistake:

http://www.smouch.net/lol/

Damn man, that just ain't kosher. At least warn innocent bystanders they will not be able to shut that thing off unless using the task manager. Or at least to turn their volume all the way off.

Lenore, The Cute Little Dead Girl. Twice as good as Jesus.


Louis_Cypher
BloggerSuperfan
Louis_Cypher's picture
Posts: 535
Joined: 2008-03-22
User is offlineOffline
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition...

sierra wrote:

I'll take that as a "yes". Two pages full of careful skirting of the more heinous activities and a careful framing of the fact that the Church and their agents were, indeed, bent on using torture and death to crush opposition to their faith.

 

Actually, if you read it, you would take my answer as a "No". The Church does not endorse or condone such tragic behavior.

Of course not. That's why Ratzenburger was the head of what is STILL the Inquisition (albet, under a different name).

LC >;-}>

 

Christianity: A disgusting middle eastern blood cult, based in human sacrifice, with sacraments of cannibalism and vampirism, whose highest icon is of a near naked man hanging in torment from a device of torture.


Louis_Cypher
BloggerSuperfan
Louis_Cypher's picture
Posts: 535
Joined: 2008-03-22
User is offlineOffline
I've got to ask...

sierra wrote:

Only if you've shut off your brain and accepted being intimidated into a fear of hell.

 

Not intimidated. Freeeeee Will!

 

God let's you choose heaven or choose hell. Simple, but quite serious.

You choose: eternal happiness with God, or not, seems fair and reasonable that each person gets to decide and is not forced to go to heaven.

 

 

 

Since you seem to believe the whole heaven/hell dichotomy....

What is the purpose of hell? Presumably, it can't be 'punishment', because punishment is aimed at rehabilitation. No one (according to your mythology) gets out, no one is improved, or actually 'taught a lesson' just tortured for eternity.

Thus, your loving god operated a medieval torture chamber on a grand scale for his own sadistic ends??? And you WORSHIP this sick bastard?

Sad.

 

LC >;-}>

 

Christianity: A disgusting middle eastern blood cult, based in human sacrifice, with sacraments of cannibalism and vampirism, whose highest icon is of a near naked man hanging in torment from a device of torture.


Louis_Cypher
BloggerSuperfan
Louis_Cypher's picture
Posts: 535
Joined: 2008-03-22
User is offlineOffline
One more question...

In your study and immersion in Marian doctrine, perhaps you've encountered the answer to something that's puzzled me for decades...

Did Mary come?

 

LC >;-}>

Christianity: A disgusting middle eastern blood cult, based in human sacrifice, with sacraments of cannibalism and vampirism, whose highest icon is of a near naked man hanging in torment from a device of torture.


Jacob Cordingley
SuperfanBronze Member
Jacob Cordingley's picture
Posts: 1484
Joined: 2007-03-18
User is offlineOffline
sierra wrote:sierra, as you

sierra wrote:

sierra, as you would expect, we reject your claims of divine paranormal manifestations because we are atheists.  That's perfectly consistent with our "belief" system

 

---yes, I know, but if I have provided factual data that proves miracles/supernatural events etc, then you would have to conclude as a reasonable person that your position of denying such realities is no longer a valid position. I have tried to do this with more than just the Virgin Mary apparitions, but with Padre Pio stigmata, incorruptible bodies of the saints, miracles of the Eucharist, and miraculous cures.

Did you? Is it empirical data, tested and double tested, complete with blinds? I'm just wondering, the word supernatural is used by religious/spiritual folks to get their beliefs away from any possible scientific rebuttal, since science only delves into the real world of the natural. "Oh, it can't be tested or sensed because its supernatural". But see the thing is, now you are saying that supernatural events are occuring in our natural world, and that we are able to see and perceive these events with our very eyes, and yet science can't find any evidence of them. So how does this supernatural realm break through into the realm of matter? Especially if supernatural entities aren't made of anything.

I think all you have done is cite a few cases where alledged "miracles" supposedly took place. I'll concede, science doesn't know everything, and nor does it claim to. This is because if it did claim to know everything it would have to make stuff up rather than do proper research - which is actually what religion is all about.

 

sierra wrote:
---Also, interesting you should bring up debating Protestants on these supernatural events. They wholeheartedly believe they are occurring, however they attribute them to the devil. So, I must conclude something here. Since Protestants deny many aspects of the Catholic faith, especially these supernatural events as being of God, yet, they do acknowledge the validity of such events, it is obvious that you folks are being a bit unreasonable here. Think about it. I have researched Protestants views on these supernatural events, and the ones I have cited are not disputed at all by Protestants. They believe them to be of supernatural origin (because its obvious if you just dig a little deeper and research it), they simply state that they are from the devil! Well, if they are from the devil, then there you go, supernatural phenomenon.

Meh, I think your beliefs are just as ridiculous. You say it was God, they say it was Satan. Whatever, you're both wrong.


pauljohntheskeptic
atheistSilver Member
pauljohntheskeptic's picture
Posts: 2517
Joined: 2008-02-26
User is offlineOffline
Loc wrote:sierra

Loc wrote:

sierra wrote:

---No, I do not know how many, I am new here. So, many have traveled through here barking a message? I am not like them. My message is different. In fact 179 or so posts in a little over 24 hours, not bad a for a new guy eh? Granted, about a 1/3 of those were mine. Anyway, my message has struck a nerve here. Why? Because deep down, many of you know its the truth. The others are simply denying God for whatever reason, that's between you and Him.

 I wouldn't feel so special. Go look at the threads of I-24 and Pasiley. Other new guys who wracked up hundreds of replies in a few days. The fact is, people on here like debating, and since it's unlikely the whole RRS will suddenly convert, it goes on for days. 

Somehow I seem to end up on these threads with silly theists like 1-24, Paisley, and now Sierra. They all seem to follow the same method, when cornered with proof they ignore you. This one has serious lack of info on his own belief as well. If you don't have the instructions don't try to operate the machinery.

____________________________________________________________
"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me

"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.


Mazid the Raider
Rational VIP!Science Freak
Mazid the Raider's picture
Posts: 128
Joined: 2007-12-28
User is offlineOffline
I'm going to respond honestly to this.

sierra wrote:
Its a simple question. Stop with the rhetoric.

I have a had many respond to my posts. I doubt very many will have the guts to answer this simple question.

So here it is again, rephrased:

If you knew, 100%, without a doubt the Jesus of the New Testament was real, and everything I have been saying is true, (regardless of how you knew it-PaulJohn), would you accept Him or deny Him?

Before I answer you I want you to answer one, simple question with a "Yes" or "No": Sierra, have you stopped sexually pleasuring yourself with automatic corn huskers? (changed from something much, much worse - I'm not trying to gross everyone out) It's a simple question, why can't you just answer yes or no?

No, I'm not going to try to make you answer that, because it is a disingenuous question, and I know it. We both know you don't insert ANYTHING other than corn into a corn husker, and we don't do it for anything but to husk the corn. On that same note, your question is equally disingenuous. From your point of view, you "know" that jesus would never show up or give 100% proof - otherwise, what good is your faith? - because the bible says he won't. From our point of view it's just not going to happen because he doesn't exist. You're getting yourself tied up in knots trying to get all of us to answer a really stupid question for nothing. BUT, I did say that I would answer it, so here I go!... and NOT with a y/n.

 

So, lets just say that someone *poof* appears in my living room in front of me, all glowing with pearly white robes and a red sash (doesn't he always seem to have one? oh well, it's my story. He's got one.) with holes in his wrists and ankles and some nasty looking scars on his forehead. "I'm Jesus! I've come to prove it all to you!"

My first reaction after a start of surprise is to kick him in the nuts. I don't have time to put up with bullshitters trying to pretend to be deities.

But, miraculously he persists in saying he's jesus, changes my coffee into curiously dark wine, changes my granola into a steak, opens a yawning pit to show me hell and splits the roof to show me heaven. So now what?

Now I kick him in the nuts even harder - not a general kick, but the same sort of kick I'm saving just in case I travel in time to meet Arthur Conan Doyle, to repay him for all the bullshit Sherlock Holmes uses to solve cases that you never find out about until it's all over. Jesus saw this coming, but he knows he deserves it for all the bullshit his "followers" have been doing for the last 2000 years or so. Wheezing, he stands up again. "I know, Mazid, I know. I'm just going door to door to apologize for all the religious persecution, all the suffering and death, and all those sickly-sweet "jesus loves the little children" songs inflicted on humanity in my name. This is only the second place I've gone, and look at me!"

"You look fine to me, why, what happened?"

"What, you think I sat around in heaven with these wounds? The FIRST guy crucified me again!"

"But still I am the Cat who walks by himself, and all places are alike to me!" ~Rudyard Kipling

Mazid the Raider says: I'd rather face the naked truth than to go "augh, dude, put some clothes on or something" and hand him some God robes, cause you and I know that the naked truth is pale, hairy, and has an outie
Entomophila says: Ew. AN outie


shikko
Posts: 448
Joined: 2007-05-23
User is offlineOffline
sierra wrote:forum that I

sierra wrote:

forum that I tried to ask earlier:

If Jesus were to appear to you right now, revealed to you eternal truth, and explained everything to you in a way that made sense, and you knew beyond a shadow of a doubt the truth of God's love, would you choose to accept and obey Him, or would you reject and deny Him????

I actually have answered every question to the best of my ability. How about you all answer one of my questions now???

OK, I'll play along for a second: yes, if given actual proof (not "proof for you", but actual "supportive evidence" like a scientist would want), I think I probably would.  That's the thing about agnostic atheists: if you give us actual, falsifiable, testable proof of something and it holds up, we'd have no recourse but to agree with you.  The trick is those three adjectives: actual, falsifiable, testable; that's where every theist who has ever existed has tripped up.

Remember, when you make a claim "X is a miracle" it is up to YOU to support your position in the face of all rational objection.  When someone asks you for proof, you say: the miracles of the eucharist, the stigmata of Pio, etc.  The problem is, these do not count as proof.  Wounds on the hands and feet can occur for a variety of explainable reasons (carbolic acid), and the eyewitness accounts of a bunch of pre-scientific, probably illiterate peasants carry practically no weight.

On the other hand, if you gave us the sort of proof science works with, belief wouldn't come into it; that's just the way things would be, regardless of how we feel about it.

Now I have to say, you asked what's called a loaded question: the question itself asserts something specific that may or may not be true and it's structured so that nothing other than an elicited answer can be given.  It's the theological equivalent of have you stopped beating your wife?

So let me throw it back at you: if you finally accepted that what you call proof is worthless and that you've believed the greatest lie ever told, would you stop lying to yourself by admitting that god does not exist, or would you carry on in your comforting delusion?

See?  It's easy to ask loaded questions.  A better one would be: what would it take to convince you that your beliefs are wrong?

--
maybe if this sig is witty, someone will love me.


shikko
Posts: 448
Joined: 2007-05-23
User is offlineOffline
sierra wrote:Matt's got a

sierra wrote:

Matt's got a point: why don't Catholics put their money where their mouth is and let some scientists actually DNA test the wafer and wine before, during and after? What could they possibly fear?

 ---nothing to fear. if it was tested, they would most certainly see that it is bread and wine. However, what the eye cannot behold is the supernatural reality that it is in fact the body and blood of Christ.

By the way, could you please deal with the first part of my post, where I asked you which of the dozens of pdfs you posted dealt with the testing of bread and wine and came up with human tissue?  I'd appreciate it.

 

 

--
maybe if this sig is witty, someone will love me.


pauljohntheskeptic
atheistSilver Member
pauljohntheskeptic's picture
Posts: 2517
Joined: 2008-02-26
User is offlineOffline
Your Turn

sierra wrote:

Its a simple question. Stop with the rhetoric.

 

I have a had many respond to my posts. I doubt very many will have the guts to answer this simple question.

 

So here it is again, rephrased:

 

If you knew, 100%, without a doubt the Jesus of the New Testament was real, and everything I have been saying is true, (regardless of how you knew it-PaulJohn), would you accept Him or deny Him?

 

 

If you knew 100% without a doubt that all you have been taught, believed, and professed was based on myths. legends, and ficitional stories would you immediately admit God doesn't exist and deny Jesus or would you continue to spread misconceptions and false information?

____________________________________________________________
"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me

"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.


sierra
Theist
Posts: 114
Joined: 2008-03-26
User is offlineOffline
Shikko wrote:

"By the way, could you please deal with the first part of my post, where I asked you which of the dozens of pdfs you posted dealt with the testing of bread and wine and came up with human tissue?  I'd appreciate it."

---Yes, the Lanciano one was the one I was referring to, here is the link:

http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/lanciano.html

 

Betania, more recently in 1991:

 

Eucharistic Miracle Betania, Venuezuela--1991

Eucharistic miracle occurred during the vigil of the Immaculate Conception on December 8, 1991. Father Otty Ossa (Maria Bianchini’s spiritual advisor) was saying Mass when the Host began to bleed as he held it. Father Ossa said:

“I broke the Host into four parts. When I looked down at the plate I could not believe my eyes. I saw a red stain forming on the Host and from it a red substance was beginning to emanate similar to the way blood spurts out in a puncture. After the Mass, I took the Host and protected it in the Sanctuary. The next day at six in the morning, I observed the Host and I found that the Blood was fluid and then began to dry, however to this day it still looks fresh. Amazingly, the Blood is only on one side, not bleeding through the exceedingly thin Host.”

The phenomenon was videotaped, and analysis of a sample of the blood showed it to be human.

Here is a cool video on Betania, I will admit I am not certain if it is authentic:

http://dsanford.com/miraclehost.html

Faith is still probably needed on these miracles unless you were there yourself to verify everything at the beginning, middle and end as someone pointed out earlier.

 

 

 

 


sierra
Theist
Posts: 114
Joined: 2008-03-26
User is offlineOffline
Shikko-thank you for your response, well done.

PaulJohn wrote:

"If you knew 100% without a doubt that all you have been taught, believed, and professed was based on myths. legends, and ficitional stories would you immediately admit God doesn't exist and deny Jesus or would you continue to spread misconceptions and false information?"

 

---100%? No, I would not continue pursuing something that I knew was false. I am not as dumb as I look...haha, and I am certainly not a crazy person. With that said, I am at 100% now on the other end, without doubt. My only challenges currently are obedience and having faith when faced with challenges. Faith in God's existence is no longer the issue for me. Here is a quote that sums it up pretty well for me by Mother Teresa:

"To fall in love with God is the greatest of all romances; to seek Him, the greatest adventure, to find Him, the greatest human achievement"

 

 

 


jcgadfly
Superfan
Posts: 6791
Joined: 2006-07-18
User is offlineOffline
sierra wrote:"By the way,

sierra wrote:

"By the way, could you please deal with the first part of my post, where I asked you which of the dozens of pdfs you posted dealt with the testing of bread and wine and came up with human tissue?  I'd appreciate it."

---Yes, the Lanciano one was the one I was referring to, here is the link:

http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/lanciano.html

 

Betania, more recently in 1991:

 

Eucharistic Miracle Betania, Venuezuela--1991

Eucharistic miracle occurred during the vigil of the Immaculate Conception on December 8, 1991. Father Otty Ossa (Maria Bianchini’s spiritual advisor) was saying Mass when the Host began to bleed as he held it. Father Ossa said:

“I broke the Host into four parts. When I looked down at the plate I could not believe my eyes. I saw a red stain forming on the Host and from it a red substance was beginning to emanate similar to the way blood spurts out in a puncture. After the Mass, I took the Host and protected it in the Sanctuary. The next day at six in the morning, I observed the Host and I found that the Blood was fluid and then began to dry, however to this day it still looks fresh. Amazingly, the Blood is only on one side, not bleeding through the exceedingly thin Host.”

The phenomenon was videotaped, and analysis of a sample of the blood showed it to be human.

Here is a cool video on Betania, I will admit I am not certain if it is authentic:

http://dsanford.com/miraclehost.html

Faith is still probably needed on these miracles unless you were there yourself to verify everything at the beginning, middle and end as someone pointed out earlier.

 

 

 

 

I've got a possible explanation for that.

When I watched the video, all I saw was a blurry, long range view of something with a little red pulsing through it. My first thought, stage blood and a small pump.

The blood sample that was analyzed? I strongly suspect that no scientist was actually allowed near the host so a priest got the blood sample, probably from sticking his own or someone else's finger.

 

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


pauljohntheskeptic
atheistSilver Member
pauljohntheskeptic's picture
Posts: 2517
Joined: 2008-02-26
User is offlineOffline
Mother Teresa

sierra wrote:

Faith in God's existence is no longer the issue for me. Here is a quote that sums it up pretty well for me by Mother Teresa:

"To fall in love with God is the greatest of all romances; to seek Him, the greatest adventure, to find Him, the greatest human achievement"

 

I'm surprised you would quote Mother Teresa, do you just not listen to the news or read it on the Internet?

 

Letters to be published written by Mother Teresa indicate she had no faith or belief.

See: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/08/23/eveningnews/main3199062.shtml

Quotes from her letters:

"Where is my faith?" she wrote. "Even deep down… there is nothing but emptiness and darkness... If there be God — please forgive me."

"Such deep longing for God… Repulsed, empty, no faith, no love, no zeal," she said.

"What do I labor for?" she asked in one letter. "If there be no God, there can be no soul. If there be no soul then, Jesus, You also are not true."

According to her letters, Mother Teresa died with her doubts. She had even stopped praying, she once said.

So if soon to be Saint Mother Teresa didn't believe anymore, what of you?

 

 

____________________________________________________________
"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me

"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.


sierra
Theist
Posts: 114
Joined: 2008-03-26
User is offlineOffline
Response to all and LOC

sierra wrote:

 

---No, I do not know how many, I am new here. So, many have traveled through here barking a message? I am not like them. My message is different. In fact 179 or so posts in a little over 24 hours, not bad a for a new guy eh? Granted, about a 1/3 of those were mine. Anyway, my message has struck a nerve here. Why? Because deep down, many of you know its the truth. The others are simply denying God for whatever reason, that's between you and Him.

 

LOC wrote:

"I wouldn't feel so special. Go look at the threads of I-24 and Pasiley. Other new guys who wracked up hundreds of replies in a few days. The fact is, people on here like debating, and since it's unlikely the whole RRS will suddenly convert, it goes on for days."

---Hey, Albedo used a lot of profanity, I tried a little pride, both I guess were unsuccessful to "stir things up" as Albedo said. Not an ego thing for me, remember, my initial question was sincere. Namely, that faced with reasonable evidence of God's existence, I was curious how an atheist or agnostic would respond. Like I said, Protestants would most certainly want to refute some of the things I have brought up as fakes; eg; apparitions, stigmata, Eucharist miracles, incorrupt bodies of saints, and other difficult to explain phenomenon. They, the Protestants friends and experts I have brought these things up to have not. Rather, after researching them probably more thoroughly than me in order to discredit these events, they were left with the conclusion that they were real, but of Satanic origin. The point? Thus far, the atheist point of view is to say they are all fake/fictional. I find the opposing conclusions quite interesting actually, to conclude totally different views on this by Protestant and Atheists.


 


pauljohntheskeptic
atheistSilver Member
pauljohntheskeptic's picture
Posts: 2517
Joined: 2008-02-26
User is offlineOffline
sierra wrote:They, the

sierra wrote:

They, the Protestants friends and experts I have brought these things up to have not. Rather, after researching them probably more thoroughly than me in order to discredit these events, they were left with the conclusion that they were real, but of Satanic origin. The point? Thus far, the atheist point of view is to say they are all fake/fictional. I find the opposing conclusions quite interesting actually, to conclude totally different views on this by Protestant and Atheists.

As I was originally Lutheran, then Catholic, now atheist my take is this. Most of the reported miracles, sightings are of Mary or a Saint. Protestants believe Catholics are idolators, therefore Satan must be responsible. That is what I learned as a Lutheran. In our case, we don't accept reported miracles without evidence, scientific proof, testing and consider them to not be true or misconceived reality. Why is that surprising. If a miracle can be of Satan it supports the mythology of religion. Since atheists don't believe in either Satan or God why would we see anything other than its not supernatural and must not be a real event?

____________________________________________________________
"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me

"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.


sierra
Theist
Posts: 114
Joined: 2008-03-26
User is offlineOffline
LOC wrote:

Thanks you dick

---sorry, that was meant for Kelly.

 

---Regarding your 15 responses, I will address Pascal's Wager. The wager is logical. Of course imho, one would have to be sincere in there decision to obey God's commands. Do you have to believe? I heard a prayer from Mark 9:24, says, "I believe (statement of obedience), help my unbelief" (prayer and respect for one's lack of faith). I know, I know, what religion? I addressed that already, from a Catholic viewpoint, there is the possibility of salvation for all faiths, depends on God, not man judging. Therefore, better to choose the approach of  Mark 9:24 as an atheist, seems perfectly logical to me. Also, if I am wrong, I will never know...its a no lose deal at the end of life.

 

 

 

 


sierra
Theist
Posts: 114
Joined: 2008-03-26
User is offlineOffline
PaulJohn wrote:

"If a miracle can be of Satan it supports the mythology of religion. Since atheists don't believe in either Satan or God why would we see anything other than its not supernatural and must not be a real event?"

---Misses the point, that is a Protestant would come to the same conclusion as an atheist if it were possible. My point: Protestants have researched many of these events, and have been unable to declare them as you say, "not supernatural" or fake. Therefore, they have concluded they are of Satanic origin.

Just trying to get across the point and question that why are Protestants able to see these as supernatural, and atheists are not? My point once again: the Protestant should agree with you that these are fake/false events-not supernatural, but they do not, puzzling?


sierra
Theist
Posts: 114
Joined: 2008-03-26
User is offlineOffline
PaulJohn wrote:

 

"I'm surprised you would quote Mother Teresa, do you just not listen to the news or read it on the Internet?

 

Letters to be published written by Mother Teresa indicate she had no faith or belief.

See: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/08/23/eveningnews/main3199062.shtml

Quotes from her letters:

"Where is my faith?" she wrote. "Even deep down… there is nothing but emptiness and darkness... If there be God — please forgive me."

"Such deep longing for God… Repulsed, empty, no faith, no love, no zeal," she said.

"What do I labor for?" she asked in one letter. "If there be no God, there can be no soul. If there be no soul then, Jesus, You also are not true."

According to her letters, Mother Teresa died with her doubts. She had even stopped praying, she once said.

So if soon to be Saint Mother Teresa didn't believe anymore, what of you?"

 

----My response---

Can someone please tell me how to box the post. Someone provided a link on how to do that, but the link did not work. Thanks!

 

---Regarding Mother Teresa-my response: Mark 9:24. What a life she lived eh? Does not matter what belief system or none at all, we should all live and love like Mother Teresa, world problems would be over. And yes, I am well aware of what you quoted above, totally inspires me!!!!

 


pauljohntheskeptic
atheistSilver Member
pauljohntheskeptic's picture
Posts: 2517
Joined: 2008-02-26
User is offlineOffline
sierra wrote:Just trying to

sierra wrote:

Just trying to get across the point and question that why are Protestants able to see these as supernatural, and atheists are not? My point once again: the Protestant should agree with you that these are fake/false events-not supernatural, but they do not, puzzling?

Not puzzling at all. Protestants have an agenda to discredit Catholicism not beliefs in the supernatural. You missed the point that if they claim Satan was responsible it makes Catholics look unchristian. Talk to some protestants not atheists. Atheists require proof and evidence which Christians do not! They are willing to accept hearsay and Urban Legends as real just like you do.

____________________________________________________________
"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me

"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.


pauljohntheskeptic
atheistSilver Member
pauljohntheskeptic's picture
Posts: 2517
Joined: 2008-02-26
User is offlineOffline
Quote Link

 Quote Link

Notice at the bottom of each post are the words reply and quote. If you click quote it opens a window where you can delete parts you don't want and add your comments afterwards. See below link for greater detail.

 

http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/the_rational_response_squad_radio_show/general_conversation_introductions_and_humor/7011

____________________________________________________________
"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me

"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.


sierra
Theist
Posts: 114
Joined: 2008-03-26
User is offlineOffline
pauljohntheskeptic

pauljohntheskeptic wrote:

 Quote Link

Notice at the bottom of each post are the words reply and quote. If you click quote it opens a window where you can delete parts you don't want and add your comments afterwards. See below link for greater detail.

 

---Thanks PaulJohn!


jread
SuperfanTheist
jread's picture
Posts: 353
Joined: 2007-05-17
User is offlineOffline
sierra wrote: ---Regarding

sierra wrote:

 

---Regarding Mother Teresa-my response: Mark 9:24. What a life she lived eh? Does not matter what belief system or none at all, we should all live and love like Mother Teresa, world problems would be over. And yes, I am well aware of what you quoted above, totally inspires me!!!!

 

 

If what you say here is true, then how can you possibly continue trying to convince people to accept Jesus as their savior? If someone like Mother Teresa, a person without faith, can be inspiring, then why cannot altruistic atheists be inspiring too? Sierra, your inconsistencies are truly intolerable.

The implication that we should put Darwinism on trial overlooks the fact that Darwinism has always been on trial within the scientific community. -- From Finding Darwin's God by Kenneth R. Miller

Chaos and chance don't mean the absence of law and order, but rather the presence of order so complex that it lies beyond our abilities to grasp and describe it. -- From From Certainty to Uncertainty by F. David Peat


sierra
Theist
Posts: 114
Joined: 2008-03-26
User is offlineOffline
jread wrote:sierra

jread wrote:

sierra wrote:

 

---Regarding Mother Teresa-my response: Mark 9:24. What a life she lived eh? Does not matter what belief system or none at all, we should all live and love like Mother Teresa, world problems would be over. And yes, I am well aware of what you quoted above, totally inspires me!!!!

 

 

If what you say here is true, then how can you possibly continue trying to convince people to accept Jesus as their savior? If someone like Mother Teresa, a person without faith, can be inspiring, then why cannot altruistic atheists be inspiring too? Sierra, your inconsistencies are truly intolerable.

 

---Sorry jread, I should have explained myself there! Mother Teresa is a perfect example of a living faith. Although she struggled, she did not give up, remained faithful to her core beliefs. Mother Teresa did what was right whether she felt like it, thought like it, or not. Hard to explain, other than she did not lose hope, did not despair. Granted, if she renounced everything, and ended up at the black jack tables at the Bellagio spending charitable contributions, that would be a problem. However, she persisted until the end, giving up her entire life for love of others. Does anyone sincerely have a problem with that?


Archeopteryx
Superfan
Archeopteryx's picture
Posts: 1037
Joined: 2007-09-09
User is offlineOffline
sierra wrote:Mother Teresa

sierra wrote:

Mother Teresa is a perfect example of a living faith. Although she struggled, she did not give up, remained faithful to her core beliefs. Mother Teresa did what was right whether she felt like it, thought like it, or not. Hard to explain, other than she did not lose hope, did not despair. Granted, if she renounced everything, and ended up at the black jack tables at the Bellagio spending charitable contributions, that would be a problem. However, she persisted until the end, giving up her entire life for love of others. Does anyone sincerely have a problem with that?

 

Actually, yes they do.

 

Part 1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WQ0i3nCx60

--How the media created her saintliness

--How her missionary "charity" was not all that charitable.

 

Part 2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKkcDgeYBdk

--How she mixed her "saint" hype with politics

--Her negligence of (not helping of) the poor

 

Part 3) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGuzFUeDDgY

--How she acted as ambassador for the papacy

--Her mixed-up priorities

 

She never despaired? What about her letters?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tz8GTs1MISY

 

A place common to all will be maintained by none. A religion common to all is perhaps not much different.


shikko
Posts: 448
Joined: 2007-05-23
User is offlineOffline
sierra wrote:"By the way,

sierra wrote:

"By the way, could you please deal with the first part of my post, where I asked you which of the dozens of pdfs you posted dealt with the testing of bread and wine and came up with human tissue?  I'd appreciate it."

---Yes, the Lanciano one was the one I was referring to, here is the link:

http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/lanciano.html

No part of this report is credible.  The reference to "testing" is so vague as to be useless; what was done?  Methods?  Results?  Were they repeated?

At best, you could consider it a local legend with religious overtones.

Quote:

Betania, more recently in 1991:

 

Here is a cool video on Betania, I will admit I am not certain if it is authentic:

http://dsanford.com/miraclehost.html

So if even you, the self-described 100% theist, aren't sure it's authentic, why offer it as evidence?

Your faith has shaped your expectations in what you see.  I am willing to bet that anyone unfamiliar with catholic mythology would not explain what they saw the same way you did.  I can see someone describing it as looking like fire, but to me, it looks more like bright red-orange cloth reflected in glass or metal than anything.

What material is the thing that looks like it's burning made out of?

Quote:

Faith is still probably needed on these miracles unless you were there yourself to verify everything at the beginning, middle and end as someone pointed out earlier.

 

This is the problem with faith: it works backwards from science and reason.  You have come to a conclusion and now go looking for things to support it.  Reason states that you look at the available evidence, come up with a hypothesis and then test it.  Debaters call what you do "cherry-picking", because you count only the hits and ignore the misses.

It's no wonder you see the mysteries of god everywhere you look; you've made up your mind that's what you're seeing.

 

--
maybe if this sig is witty, someone will love me.


I AM GOD AS YOU
Superfan
Posts: 4793
Joined: 2007-09-29
User is offlineOffline
  MODS and posters, Please

  MODS and posters, Please save everyone from that freaking link sierre posted to kelly

Go back and edit it out , erase it .....

Thanks you dick

---sorry, that was meant for Kelly. 

SO UN COOL <<<<<  


sierra
Theist
Posts: 114
Joined: 2008-03-26
User is offlineOffline
I deleted the link from the original post.

My apologies again to all of the victims (including me) who clicked on that link.


sierra
Theist
Posts: 114
Joined: 2008-03-26
User is offlineOffline
Archeopteryx wrote:sierra

Archeopteryx wrote:

sierra wrote:

Mother Teresa is a perfect example of a living faith. Although she struggled, she did not give up, remained faithful to her core beliefs. Mother Teresa did what was right whether she felt like it, thought like it, or not. Hard to explain, other than she did not lose hope, did not despair. Granted, if she renounced everything, and ended up at the black jack tables at the Bellagio spending charitable contributions, that would be a problem. However, she persisted until the end, giving up her entire life for love of others. Does anyone sincerely have a problem with that?

 

Actually, yes they do.

 

Part 1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WQ0i3nCx60

--How the media created her saintliness

--How her missionary "charity" was not all that charitable.

 

Part 2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKkcDgeYBdk

--How she mixed her "saint" hype with politics

--Her negligence of (not helping of) the poor

 

Part 3) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGuzFUeDDgY

--How she acted as ambassador for the papacy

--Her mixed-up priorities

 

She never despaired? What about her letters?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tz8GTs1MISY

 

 

---I watched the videos and a few more by Christopher Hitchens. The debate with the Irishman was pretty good. I think the Irishman won that one! Regarding the other videos, looks like a rather desperate attempt by CH to discredit a life spent serving others. She pulled dying people off the street, tried to provide some comfort to them before they die, and he is critical of her for not doing more. The cast system in India does NOTHING for these people. She did what she could...which is more than most of us. Also, he tries to imply she was involved in all of the political stuff. She was a poor nun who had one set of clothes to spare, and that's it! Virtually no possessions, no comforts of life, living a simple life. Absolutely astounding that even Mother Teresa is attacked by atheists. If the message of Mother Teresa is not even respected here, then I do not have a chance of having anything meaningful come out of my visits here.

RRS=IRS   I=irrational 

Sierra, signing out!

 

 

 


mark65
mark65's picture
Posts: 30
Joined: 2007-12-09
User is offlineOffline
you believe in 2000 year

you believe in 2000 year plageurised superstitions and WE'RE irrational?

 

why should mother teresa be respected here, she didn't believe in what she was doing, why should anyone else?

 

you expected to get something meaningful to come out of trolling an atheist site with your rediculous superstitions, now thats irrational.

 

 

 


Louis_Cypher
BloggerSuperfan
Louis_Cypher's picture
Posts: 535
Joined: 2008-03-22
User is offlineOffline
sierra wrote:---I watched

sierra wrote:

---I watched the videos and a few more by Christopher Hitchens. The debate with the Irishman was pretty good. I think the Irishman won that one! Regarding the other videos, looks like a rather desperate attempt by CH to discredit a life spent serving others. She pulled dying people off the street, tried to provide some comfort to them before they die, and he is critical of her for not doing more. The cast system in India does NOTHING for these people. She did what she could...which is more than most of us. Also, he tries to imply she was involved in all of the political stuff. She was a poor nun who had one set of clothes to spare, and that's it! Virtually no possessions, no comforts of life, living a simple life. Absolutely astounding that even Mother Teresa is attacked by atheists. If the message of Mother Teresa is not even respected here, then I do not have a chance of having anything meaningful come out of my visits here.

RRS=IRS   I=irrational 

Sierra, signing out!

Teresa was simply a politised old fraud. She helped NO ONE except the church. She denied medication to the dieing in the sadistic belief that 'suffering brought them closer to christ'. However, when her wrinkled old ass was dieing, she was whisked away for the finest in medical care. SHe consorted with criminals, took their 'donations' and refused to acknowledge that the money was stolen, and actually belongs to THOUSANDS of people who had lost their life savings. (As in the S&L scandal). Most of the monies she recieved is as yet, unaccounted for. As with Jerry Falwell, sometimes, people make the world a better place by simply dieing.

 

By the way, my sign off is an apt description of the Catholic church.

It IS a disgusting blood cult based in human sacrifice (The idiotic notion that their all-powerful-all-loving-all-knowing god couldn't change his mind about the disposition of his creations without a horrible and bloody human sacrifice.)

It DOES entail sacrements of vampirism and canibalism. (I fail to see that ritual or stylized 'pretend' canibalism is ethically better than the real thing.)

It's highest ICON is the pathetic image of a naked man being tormented to death on a on a torture device.

 

LC >;-}>

Christianity: A disgusting middle eastern blood cult, based in human sacrifice, with sacraments of cannibalism and vampirism, whose highest icon is of a near naked man hanging in torment from a device of torture.


Archeopteryx
Superfan
Archeopteryx's picture
Posts: 1037
Joined: 2007-09-09
User is offlineOffline
sierra wrote:---I watched

sierra wrote:

---I watched the videos and a few more by Christopher Hitchens. The debate with the Irishman was pretty good. I think the Irishman won that one!

 

Why am I not surprised.

 

Quote:

Regarding the other videos, looks like a rather desperate attempt by CH to discredit a life spent serving others.

Unless you can refute any of his information, what you think of his motivations mean nothing.

 

Quote:

She pulled dying people off the street, tried to provide some comfort to them before they die, and he is critical of her for not doing more.

He is not critical of her for "not doing enough". He is critical of her because her concern was not with helping people with their health at all. It's one thing to comfort a person before they die when they are past the point of all help, but even the people that she COULD have actually helped, she did not. As he pointed out, given the amount of funding she actually received, she could have built hospitals in Calcutta that actually SAVED LIVES, but instead she chose to spread her funding out very thin, setting up convents that only "comforted" (unethically, I might add).

She could have saved lives, but she didn't. Not because she couldn't, but because she chose not to.

 

Quote:

The cast system in India does NOTHING for these people. She did what she could...which is more than most of us.

Per above, no she didn't. She did next to nothing for a lot of people rather than everything she could for a few less. The videos explained why this is, but you don't seem like you were thinking about the videos all that critically. I understand. You knew what you thought of the videos before you even pressed play. You smiled, you counted your hits, and you gracefully failed to notice (read: ignored while maintaining that you weren't ignoring) your misses. I understand. Confirmation bias is common.

 

Quote:

Also, he tries to imply she was involved in all of the political stuff. She was a poor nun who had one set of clothes to spare, and that's it! Virtually no possessions, no comforts of life, living a simple life.

So being mixed up in politics requires a person to have possessions and a large amount of wealth?

Politics is about influence. After she was made a media spectacle, she was used in that way. To influence. Specifically, to influence politicians. Therefore, politics.

 

Quote:

Absolutely astounding that even Mother Teresa is attacked by atheists. If the message of Mother Teresa is not even respected here, then I do not have a chance of having anything meaningful come out of my visits here.

Read:

 

1) Atheist offers argument.

2) "Ugh, I am insulted."

3) Therefore, God exists.

 

Quote:

RRS=IRS   I=irrational 

Sierra, signing out!

 

Read:

 

1) You're stupid, atheist.

2) Therefore, God exists.

 

 

Nice meeting you, Sierra.

A place common to all will be maintained by none. A religion common to all is perhaps not much different.


I AM GOD AS YOU
Superfan
Posts: 4793
Joined: 2007-09-29
User is offlineOffline
 Geezzz sierre , what do

 Geezzz sierre , what do you want from me ?


djneibarger
Superfan
djneibarger's picture
Posts: 564
Joined: 2007-04-13
User is offlineOffline
sierra wrote:Never will the

sierra wrote:

Never will the media truly investigate the real apparitions in and of themselves without bringing up the nonsense to discredit them. Typical!

 

if the the investigations did not discredit these "real" apparitions, would you still consider them nonsense? it sounds as if you will only approve of scientific examination of such events if it they validate your personal belief, and that combined with the church's refusal to allow the events in Betania to be properly studied are precisely why i have to consider this just one more case of overzealous religious fraud. on to the next..

www.derekneibarger.com http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=djneibarger "all postures of submission and surrender should be part of our prehistory." -christopher hitchens


sierra
Theist
Posts: 114
Joined: 2008-03-26
User is offlineOffline
I AM GOD AS YOU

I AM GOD AS YOU wrote:

 Geezzz sierre , what do you want from me ?

 

---It's not what I want I Am, its what I AM wants.


I AM GOD AS YOU
Superfan
Posts: 4793
Joined: 2007-09-29
User is offlineOffline
I like your wit and karma

  I like your wit sierre, and karma

, here from your other POST, "The Unforgivable Sin! "

Is me, post # 46 to you,

Basics: OT /  Have no god before >ME< , the I AM, and have no Idols as well.

NT: / Cool atheist Jesus says,  I  (we)  are ONE with the Cosmos (father),  Ye are gods too, This is the kingdom/Heaven NOW, I AM as YOU , god.

Simple , but the ancient superstitious religious loons killed him, to later make J an idol  ...... that's the basic epic story.

Religion is poison idol worship of separation, all is ONE, eternal.  Thanks atheists Jesus/Buddha !  Boy did bible Paul screw up that simple J message ? .....   

and my J still weeps with me ..... yes the christ in me !  All Xians REPENT NOW ! The I AM demands, so that you will be 100% free (salvation) My way or the hiway !  There is no other way than the I AM !  

Doing the Dr. Jesus thing ,  I AM IS !!!!!!!   an atheist non-superstitious idea  

 

 


sierra
Theist
Posts: 114
Joined: 2008-03-26
User is offlineOffline
djneibarger wrote:sierra

djneibarger wrote:

sierra wrote:

Never will the media truly investigate the real apparitions in and of themselves without bringing up the nonsense to discredit them. Typical!

 

if the the investigations did not discredit these "real" apparitions, would you still consider them nonsense? it sounds as if you will only approve of scientific examination of such events if it they validate your personal belief, and that combined with the church's refusal to allow the events in Betania to be properly studied are precisely why i have to consider this just one more case of overzealous religious fraud. on to the next..

 

---dj, there have been countless alleged apparitions, alleged supernatural events, and alleged FSM's. However, the Catholic Church has condemned virtually all of those as fake, false, and hoaxes. I have only cited the ones that have been investigated and approved by the Church, who has the God given authority and God given wisdom of the Holy Spirit to properly interpret what we mere mortal minds consider truth. I merely presented some things that once again a reasonable person could conclude are supernatural (that have nothing to do with "another internet religious hoax I might add). Most of what I posted took place long before YouTube or the Internet. The internet and links are simply and expedient way to get the info. posted here....dig a little deeper folks! Padre Pio, Fatima, Lourdes, Incorruptibles, Zeitun, Divine Mercy-St. Faustina. I have given you plenty of things to help you in your (sincere I hope) pursuit of truth. Like I said, dig a little deeper with an objective mind, do your own research. These are things that have been approved by the Church that does not approve things in haste! Very rigorous hoops to jump through.


JillSwift
Superfan
JillSwift's picture
Posts: 1758
Joined: 2008-01-13
User is offlineOffline
sierra wrote:---dj, there

sierra wrote:
---dj, there have been countless alleged apparitions, alleged supernatural events, and alleged FSM's. However, the Catholic Church has condemned virtually all of those as fake, false, and hoaxes. I have only cited the ones that have been investigated and approved by the Church, who has the God given authority and God given wisdom of the Holy Spirit to properly interpret what we mere mortal minds consider truth. I merely presented some things that once again a reasonable person could conclude are supernatural (that have nothing to do with "another internet religious hoax I might add). Most of what I posted took place long before YouTube or the Internet. The internet and links are simply and expedient way to get the info. posted here....dig a little deeper folks! Padre Pio, Fatima, Lourdes, Incorruptibles, Zeitun, Divine Mercy-St. Faustina. I have given you plenty of things to help you in your (sincere I hope) pursuit of truth. Like I said, dig a little deeper with an objective mind, do your own research. These are things that have been approved by the Church that does not approve things in haste! Very rigorous hoops to jump through.
You're being duplicitous.

For instance: You failed to address the verified documentation that more than somewhat suggests Padre Pio was a mountebank who used a carbolic acid solution to cause the wounds he claimed to be stigmata.

 

"Anyone can repress a woman, but you need 'dictated' scriptures to feel you're really right in repressing her. In the same way, homophobes thrive everywhere. But you must feel you've got scripture on your side to come up with the tedious 'Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve' style arguments instead of just recognising that some people are different." - Douglas Murray


magilum
Posts: 2410
Joined: 2007-03-07
User is offlineOffline
Hi sierra, thanks for the

Hi sierra, thanks for the lulz. If your criteria is valid, then so we must acknowledge the existence of alien aircraft that look like pie pans and hub caps, the yeti, and those paper fairies that had Sir Arthur Conan Doyle fooled. There's something I think you'd find interesting, and I'd really like for you to take a look at it. Check it out.

 


iwbiek
atheistSuperfan
iwbiek's picture
Posts: 4230
Joined: 2008-03-23
User is offlineOffline
JillSwift, nothing hotter

JillSwift,

 

nothing hotter than a woman saying "duplicitous"! Eye-wink