Can someone please explain to me...

Kuraishel
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Can someone please explain to me...

Can someone please give me a list of every single reason that they don't believe in a god/ gods. I want to understand atheist arguments against theism and having them all on one page would be great. I know this could be a rather long list, so please condense each of your points into a sentence or two. Multiple users are welcome to post.

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Kuraishel wrote:Can someone

Kuraishel wrote:

Can someone please give me a list of every single reason that they don't believe in a god/ gods. I want to understand atheist arguments against theism and having them all on one page would be great. I know this could be a rather long list, so please condense each of your points into a sentence or two. Multiple users are welcome to post.

The question shifts the burden of proof; which would be unnecessary if the idea it advocates had any merit.


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BMcD wrote:I mean that, to

BMcD wrote:
I mean that, to take your example, while I expect the key will unlock the car, if it has appeared to do so in the past, I cannot assert knowledge that it will. I'd be surprised if it didn't work, but I can't know that such won't happen.

That's what I figured. I would have been honestly surprised (but heavily amused) if you were to respond with something like, "actually, I just stay in my house living off the residuals of a land deal I made once, questioning reality". I'm also of the "it could happen" school, in that case.

BMcD wrote:
like all of these things are possible, I acknowledge the possibility that all that I know could be wrong... but I continue to interact with the universe that I perceive, on the basis of what I perceive.

See, to me, that's a relaxed (and frankly reasonable) solipsism, rather than the one where your life spirals into a hellish uncertainty by slippery slope, like I've read in a couple of places on the site. Some people figure that doubting their perception to such a degree sucks them immediately into a vortex of paralysis. Not so! Behold our friend BMcD.

BMcD wrote:
I have been poking at him over this, saying things like 'Oh, fine, you get done being 42, the Ultimate Answer of Life, the Universe, and Everything... and the world ends' and '43... Number of the Bush!'. And it amuses me greatly. Smiling 

Uh ... just asking an' all, but your friend wouldn't happen to have the ultimate question handy, would he?

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fabulae! nil satis firmi video quam ob rem accipere hunc mi expediat metum. - Terence


pauljohntheskeptic
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HisWillness wrote:I think

HisWillness wrote:

I think the most important question, and one that really hasn't been addressed by biologists:

was Jesus high in fibre?

As with all Christian beliefs one must consult the NT of the bible. In the contradictory stories it infers that Jesus had a diet consisting of stolen corn, figs possibly when he could figure out the correct season for fruit, bread of some sort, many jars of wine, and a boat load of fish. Since these stories have been poorly copied and translated over the years (Source- Misquoting Jesus by Bart Ehrman) it is difficult to determine if Jesus' diet was high in fibre or not. As with the other contradictory stories the scribe may have spilled some of his own wine on the scroll he was copying obscuring forever the important diet of Jesus and thus inserted his own diet into the copy.

____________________________________________________________
"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me

"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.


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HisWillness wrote:See, to

HisWillness wrote:

See, to me, that's a relaxed (and frankly reasonable) solipsism, rather than the one where your life spirals into a hellish uncertainty by slippery slope, like I've read in a couple of places on the site. Some people figure that doubting their perception to such a degree sucks them immediately into a vortex of paralysis. Not so! Behold our friend BMcD.

Heh. Eloise and I had this discussion, too. I can't really say it's solipsism, though, because I can't be sure I'm the source of any falsity in my perceptions. For all I know, I'm being fed all this by external agencies. Eye-wink

HisWilness wrote:
BMcD wrote:
I have been poking at him over this, saying things like 'Oh, fine, you get done being 42, the Ultimate Answer of Life, the Universe, and Everything... and the world ends' and '43... Number of the Bush!'. And it amuses me greatly. Smiling 

Uh ... just asking an' all, but your friend wouldn't happen to have the ultimate question handy, would he?

I thought we learned that at the end of The Restaurant at the End of the Universe? "What do you get if you multiply six by nine?"

BTW, if you work in base thirteen, 6x9 =42 (with 42 representing the same amount as the decimal 54. 40 = 4x13 (52) +2 = 42)

"You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons." - The Waco Kid


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Kuraishel wrote:Can someone

Kuraishel wrote:

Can someone please give me a list of every single reason that they don't believe in a god/ gods.

 

If you were asking for mere complaints about religion, you'd be talking a long list, but since we're only talking reasons for our lack of belief, I'd say it's actually an extremely short list:

 

1) Because there is absolutely no reason to suspect that there is one.

A place common to all will be maintained by none. A religion common to all is perhaps not much different.


I AM GOD AS YOU
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OP question, "Can someone

OP question, "Can someone please give me a list of every single reason that they don't believe in a god/ gods."  /////

      BUT I AM GOD

            oh, I get it , you mean religion gods .    ummmm ???????????  

.... well,  every word of religion god shit. 

That ain't god ..... I AM GOD , as you  

    geezzZZZZZ 

get real ........  < -------  [email protected]#$%^&UIOP ()         <---- see god , explain ? 


HisWillness
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BMcD wrote:Heh. Eloise and I

BMcD wrote:

Heh. Eloise and I had this discussion, too. I can't really say it's solipsism, though, because I can't be sure I'm the source of any falsity in my perceptions. For all I know, I'm being fed all this by external agencies. Eye-wink

Hahahaha! Oh man.

BMcD wrote:

I thought we learned that at the end of The Restaurant at the End of the Universe? "What do you get if you multiply six by nine?"

BTW, if you work in base thirteen, 6x9 =42 (with 42 representing the same amount as the decimal 54. 40 = 4x13 (52) +2 = 42)

Oh yeah! Somehow this seems related to the above ...

Saint Will: no gyration without funkstification.
fabulae! nil satis firmi video quam ob rem accipere hunc mi expediat metum. - Terence


The Doomed Soul
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>.>

Well, my reason (excluding those that have been previously posted here)

 

Is that i cannot, and will not, worship any inferior entity

What Would Kharn Do?


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Can you give me a good

Can you give me a good reason to believe god/gods do exist?

By defining god I assume that you mean a generic all-powerful being that created the universe and everything in it. I am a weak-atheist so I am still open to belief in a creator, and I am sure many of us here follow that line of thinking. I do not believe in the world's main religions because they are just silly for the most part. If the story of jack and the beanstalk were in the bible/torah/quran/vedas people would believe it actually happened. However, most do not believe that there ever was ever a giant beanstalk and a bunch of magic beans and is just a child's fairy tale.

"Always seek out the truth, but avoid at all costs those that claim to have found it" ANONYMOUS


EXC
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Kuraishel wrote:Can someone

Kuraishel wrote:

Can someone please give me a list of every single reason that they don't believe in a god/ gods. I want to understand atheist arguments against theism and having them all on one page would be great. I know this could be a rather long list, so please condense each of your points into a sentence or two. Multiple users are welcome to post.

 

Which god? Zeus, Allah, Jesus, etc...

You can do it yourself. Come up with a list of why you don't believe in other gods from other traditions. Then just replace the name of your god. This should pretty much match my list.

 

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen


I AM GOD AS YOU
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Good tip EXC,   ......

Good tip EXC,

  ...... thing is,  in their minds they will then say, "but there still is still a god thingy  ..... and and and  ......  Please PLEASE, I don't want to die ...... oh my god,  no no atheists, I love my god  ......  "

 ............ the human race is mostly, well you know, human ! , just saying ...... 

   ( understand the enemy, ourselves/them as one ,

...... another simply said "love the enemy" ...... ummmm, I get it ..... wow big J , right on.

I am an atheist for atheist jesus ..........   everyone  can pick their big J ...... so what is big J ..... ????    you are big J  ............           All is YOU ..... your mind .....  


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At the risk of being a 'ditto head'

Kuraishel wrote:

The Cosmological Argument takes several forms, but is basically represented below.

Cosmological Argument
  1. Things exist.

Good, we aren't delving into solipsism, which I consider the only offense truely worthy of death.

Kuraishel wrote:

    2. It is possible for those things to not exist.

This is where the argument breaks down. It is possible for things to NEVER have existed. The (often abused) principles of Thermodynamics show us clearly that energy can not be created or destroyed. Einstien showed us that Energy and Matter are equivolent. Thus all things that exist have always existed, and will always exist in some form.

The rest of the argument disolves because of this fundamental flaw.

 

As to my own reasons for disbelief, they echo the majority of posters, no evidence for, thus no reason to presuppose the existence of a god or gods.

LC >;-}>

Christianity: A disgusting middle eastern blood cult, based in human sacrifice, with sacraments of cannibalism and vampirism, whose highest icon is of a near naked man hanging in torment from a device of torture.


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Kuraishel wrote:Cosmological

Kuraishel wrote:
Cosmological Argument

  1. Things exist.
  2. It is possible for those things to not exist.
  3. Whatever has the possibility of non existence, yet exists, has been caused to exist.
    1. Something cannot bring itself into existence, since it must exist to bring itself into existence, which is illogical.
  4. There cannot be an infinite number of causes to bring something into existence.
    1. An infinite regression of causes ultimately has no initial cause, which means there is no cause of existence.
    2. Since the universe exists, it must have a cause.
  5. Therefore, there must be an uncaused cause of all things.
  6. The uncaused cause must be God.

 

But doesn't 3.1 contradict 5?

Basically, you're saying that nothing can bring itself into existence, except for God.

If the answer is that God didn't bring itself into existence but has always existed, couldn't all matter and energy have always existed?

I hope it doesn't boil down to nothing can bring itself into existence and nothing can always have existed.... except for God.

Also, you're working off the premise that the universe must have a cause. There is simply no evidence for this assertion. If you don't agree with this premise, the rest of the rules are meaningless.

 


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In addition to what

In addition to what sandwiches is saying (welcome to the board, BTW, sandwiches), there are ambiguities in what's meant by bringing something into existence. Must a cause be deliberate? If not, then the cause has a cause; or it's a really simple and mindless event that comes from nothing. If it must be deliberate, then the uncaused cause would have to be at least as complex as the thing it causes, so it only moves the "something from nothing" idea one step back, and up another level of complexity. We also have no example of a deliberate agency bringing something into existence ex nihilo; rather all agencies hitherto known have only reconfigured existing things. Theists tend to confuse the convoluted internal logic of their arguments with explanations supported by data.

 


I AM GOD AS YOU
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I like sandwiches .....

  I like sandwiches .....

Religion is fucking

STUPID , looking for a Master to follow  ??? Why ? ummmm  


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The Cosmo argument is

The Cosmo argument is nothing more than:

Everything that begins to exist has a cause for its existence... except something, which I will declare is God.

 

Theists arbitrarily determine their God is the cause. They often add that something created can't be more complex than the Creator. This is absurd on many levels.

One, it isn't true by any Actual example.

Two, it would mean that God would have had a more complex creator.. and that creator would have had to have had a more complex creator... It's a Ponzi scheme, made to ultimately extract money from morans.

Oh, but Theists declare that God is the Uncaused Cause...

However, as I mentioned, this is just an arbitrary stopping point.

Plus, it ignores a very crucial problem.

1. Assume God existed uncaused.

2. If God decided to create the universe, then he did so either arbitrarily, or by his will.

3a. If arbitrarily, than it was be some "natural" law that already existed that compelled him to do it.  He was ruled by a larger law (this makes God not god by most definitions).

3b. If God created the universe because of his will, then 1)there would have had to been in place, laws that allow his will to "take hold".  "Let there be light" - there would have to be a pre-existing logic that would make sense of the command, or else it would have just been gibberish "Lit  ebth ere et ghl" (not the words but the thought, or idea). 2)if he were "born" with his free will to decide to make the universe or not, then the universe is Contingent. This means that the laws of logic are contingent. This, one, is obviously not likely to be true (can anyone imagine A not being A?), and two, makes the possibility of using logic to create an argument that god exists in the first place, impossible.

 

It goes back to that absurd argument: Nothing can be proven, therefore this proves there is a God (oh, and you can only believe in God through Faith).

Plus, if God created the universe because of his FW, then you have the problem of evil, and other impossible hurdles.

 

BTW, since I am breezing through all of this too quickly, I might as well rant.

Why do the Theists on this board spend so much time trying to convince people that there is a God? They will offer all kinds of explanations and ultimatley revert to "you have to have Faith" and then they will proceed to tell you how deeply and truly they have Faith that God exists.

Then, when you ask them if they sin, they'll say "oh, well I'm not a very good (insert religion here)"

 

The thing is, I believe gravity exists but I don't jump off buildings to test its limits.  If you believe God exists, wouldn't you do everything in your power to honor and worship that god instead of sinning and then asking for forgiveness? 

I submit that they really don't believe God exists but only want to be assholes, since nothing is more asshole-ish than to keep saying something exists and then "you can't prove it doesn't, nah, nah, nah."

 

blah, blah, blah.

Imagine the people who believe such things and who are not ashamed to ignore, totally, all the patient findings of thinking minds through all the centuries since the Bible was written. And it is these ignorant people, the most uneducated, the most unimaginative, the most unthinking among us, who would make themselves the guides and leaders of us all; who would force their feeble and childish beliefs on us; who would invade our schools and libraries and homes. I personally resent it bitterly.
Isaac Asimov


pauljohntheskeptic
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I have a theory. A long time

I have a theory. A long time ago far, far away several conmen had the following discussion:

"Look, it really sucks herding sheep all the time Aaron."

"Yeah, but you should try raising grain Moses, you dig in the dirt all day and your back hurts, you get blisters, and sunburn."

"Hey, I know, why don't we tell everyone we heard God talk from a 'burning bush', we can set ourselves up and have people feed us, bring us gold and silver, and they can get the blisters not us."

"You know what, I think you hit on something there."

 

 

____________________________________________________________
"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me

"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.