I Need Some Answers

mjb
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I Need Some Answers

As a Christian I've been combing this website to reply to a post. I only found one worth replying so now I'm going to ask some questions?

1. Why predominately target Christianity? Why not Muslims or Buddists, Jehova Witnesses, or Mormons? Why does this site have such a problem with the Christian faith?

2. What is the point of all this discussion? If I told you tomorrow an earthquake would rip through New York City-  time would tell right? Why argue and poke fun at other beliefs? The last time I checked we don't live forever. So time will time tell. Right?

As much as I could be seen as the "enemy view" I love all you guys and wish you the best lives.

God Bless,

www.achange.ca

[email protected]


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mjb wrote:As a Christian

mjb wrote:
As a Christian I've been combing this website to reply to a post. I only found one worth replying so now I'm going to ask some questions

1. Why predominately target Christianity? Why not Muslims or Buddists, Jehova Witnesses, or Mormons? Why does this site have such a problem with the Christian faith?

That's really coincidence. Lots of people come on here to debate claiming to be one thing or another, and when pressed, dissolve into "God will send you to hell for eternity!!!" So most of the discussion has Christians as the other side. But that's a matter of geography. If most of the people coming on here were muslim or whatever, they'd probably get the same treatment. Also, I thought Mormons and Jehova's Witnesses were Christians. Don't they do the Jesus thing too?

mjb wrote:
2. What is the point of all this discussion? If I told you tomorrow an earthquake would rip through New York City-  time would tell right? Why argue and poke fun at other beliefs? The last time I checked we don't live forever. So time will time tell. Right?

The supernatural in general is highly improbable, no matter what form it takes. People make political policies based on supernatural beliefs, and they're often related to "end times" scenarios. These people control massive armies. So it's certainly a significant argument. Notice that we are not out with guns, we're debating. If you told me an earthquake was coming and then presented geological evidence, I would hear you out for sure.

mjb wrote:
As much as I could be seen as the "enemy view" I love all you guys and wish you the best lives.

You're not really the enemy. Also, you may take some unfriendly heat here, but don't let it get to you. There have been so many truly frothing-at-the-mouth types who have visited the forums that the group has its guard up from the get-go.

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We must

mjb wrote:

As a Christian I've been combing this website to reply to a post. I only found one worth replying so now I'm going to ask some questions?

1. Why predominately target Christianity? Why not Muslims or Buddists, Jehova Witnesses, or Mormons? Why does this site have such a problem with the Christian faith?

2. What is the point of all this discussion? If I told you tomorrow an earthquake would rip through New York City-  time would tell right? Why argue and poke fun at other beliefs? The last time I checked we don't live forever. So time will time tell. Right?

As much as I could be seen as the "enemy view" I love all you guys and wish you the best lives.

God Bless,

www.achange.ca

[email protected]

 

1. Christianity is primarily targetted  on this site simply because the squad and most of the viewers are from America, in which case Christianity is the major religion here. Because of this, we are all much more familiar with the Christian claims and therefore have something to say about them. Personally I don't know much about Islam, Hinduism, etc. compared to how much I know about Christianity, because I was brought up in Christian faith.

 

2. Time will tell, sure... but they could have said that to all the black people when they were standing up for their rights... This site isn't about attacking religion just to tell them they're wrong... It's about educating people to rationally realise the faults of religious belief, the lack of evidence for religious claims, etc. The goal is to end theism, which would result in ending other bad things that it has caused. Religion has it's hands in lawmaking now, education, science, etc. It must be stopped. We can't keep making laws based on this false religion. If someone can come up with a GOOD reason why gay people can't get married and be recognized as normal people, then maybe we could make a law against it... In this case however, it's just one of several evil things that religion has mandated that effects EVERYONE, not just other Christians.


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1.  

1.

 

 


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mjb wrote:As a Christian

mjb wrote:

As a Christian I've been combing this website to reply to a post. I only found one worth replying so now I'm going to ask some questions?

1. Why predominately target Christianity? Why not Muslims or Buddists, Jehova Witnesses, or Mormons? Why does this site have such a problem with the Christian faith?

Like has seen said,most of us live in the Western world and are daily affected by chritianity. If I had to deal with Buddists everyday, then I would concentrate on that faith.However,I don't

mjb wrote:
2. What is the point of all this discussion? If I told you tomorrow an earthquake would rip through New York City-  time would tell right? Why argue and poke fun at other beliefs? The last time I checked we don't live forever. So time will time tell. Right?

Time would tell.However,earthquakes are documented and I know they exist. So I would be inclined to think there is a chance that could happen. When you talk about your magical god though,I'm a lot less inclined.

You also seem to be employing some variant of Pascal's Wager here. Time will tell if you're right too.You better hope it's you and not those forementioned muslims.

mjb wrote:
As much as I could be seen as the "enemy view" I love all you guys and wish you the best lives.

God Bless,

We're atheists,not soliders. We always welcome questions, and don't feel the need to make enemies of the person asking. I wish you a good life too, without the superstitions you don't need


EDIT-damn cat beat me

Psalm 14:1 "the fool hath said in his heart there is a God"-From a 1763 misprinted edition of the bible

dudeofthemoment wrote:
This is getting redudnant. My patience with the unteachable[atheists] is limited.

Argument from Sadism: Theist presents argument in a wall of text with no punctuation and wrong spelling. Atheist cannot read and is forced to concede.


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mjb wrote:1.

mjb wrote:

1. Why predominately target Christianity? Why not Muslims or Buddists, Jehova Witnesses, or Mormons? Why does this site have such a problem with the Christian faith?

 

The site is in English and is run on a server in America. Christianity is the most visible religion in America, and most of the site's members were former Christians. It is the religion we know best, and thus is the easiest for us to criticize. But this is merely a coincidence. We have a problem with all irrational beliefs, and that includes every religion, not just Christianity.

Furthermore, aren't Jehovas Witnessess and Mormons Christians as well? If you don't think they are, you'd be commiting the No True Scotsman Fallacy.

 

mjb wrote:

2. What is the point of all this discussion? If I told you tomorrow an earthquake would rip through New York City-  time would tell right? Why argue and poke fun at other beliefs? The last time I checked we don't live forever. So time will time tell. Right?

 

Beliefs are like any opinion. I don't care if a belief is political, religious or scientific, it must be open to scrutiny. If a belief cannot withstand scrutiny or debate, it deserves nothing but  ridicule.

 

If you told us that tomorrow and earthquake would strike New York City, you bet we would not act on this information unless we were absolutely sure it was going to happen. We'd need evidence. We would have absolutely no reason to believe what you say unless you had something to back it up with. Otherwise, why evacuate or make other preparations, just to be fooled?

Similarly, if you tell me I'm going to either go to magic gumdrop land or eternal-burning-pit land after my brain stops working to see a mythical Jewish zombie, I'd need some serious evidence before I believed you. There is no reason to waste effort, energy and resources on something that has no evidence, because if you have no evidence, you're probably making it up.

Finally, if a belief is stupid enough, such as the superstitious belief in that mythical Jewish zombie and the all-powerful magic man in the sky, it deserves--- no, demands ridicule. I'm sorry, but if someone believes in something laughable they are bound to get laughed at.

 

mjb wrote:

As much as I could be seen as the "enemy view" I love all you guys and wish you the best lives.

God Bless,

www.achange.ca

[email protected]

 

Sure you do, pal. You're just spouting propaganda because you think it will get you a free ticket to magic gumdrop land.


mjb
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interesting response

I respect the other responses Matt but is this picture really your only thoughts to my post?


mjb
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Christianity

In response to is Jehova Witness, Mormons etc. Christians?- No they are not Christians because they do not believe that Christ is God's one and only Son.

The Mormons believe that the Mormon Jesus is the Son of God (Aloheim) but also the brother of Luciffer. The Jehova Witness believe that Jesus was a prophet but but not God's one and only Son.


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Look in the mirror and tell me you're an accident.

MattShizzle wrote:

1.

 

 


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mjb wrote:In response to is

mjb wrote:

In response to is Jehova Witness, Mormons etc. Christians?- No they are not Christians because they do not believe that Christ is God's one and only Son.

The Mormons believe that the Mormon Jesus is the Son of God (Aloheim) but also the brother of Luciffer. The Jehova Witness believe that Jesus was a prophet but but not God's one and only Son.

Jehovah's Witnesses believe that Jesus is the only-begotten Son of God

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah%27s_Witnesses

I know Wiki can be dubious but still..

 

Psalm 14:1 "the fool hath said in his heart there is a God"-From a 1763 misprinted edition of the bible

dudeofthemoment wrote:
This is getting redudnant. My patience with the unteachable[atheists] is limited.

Argument from Sadism: Theist presents argument in a wall of text with no punctuation and wrong spelling. Atheist cannot read and is forced to concede.


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The Watchtower says they

The Watchtower says they believe jesus is the son of god.

http://www.watchtower.org/e/jt/index.htm?article=article_03.htm

Psalm 14:1 "the fool hath said in his heart there is a God"-From a 1763 misprinted edition of the bible

dudeofthemoment wrote:
This is getting redudnant. My patience with the unteachable[atheists] is limited.

Argument from Sadism: Theist presents argument in a wall of text with no punctuation and wrong spelling. Atheist cannot read and is forced to concede.


mjb
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Son of God

I know this one's a little strange Loc. They believe He's the Son God but not actually God. (the Trinity Father Son and Holy Spirit all God but in three different forms.) http://biblia.com/christianity2/jehovah.htm


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mjb wrote:I know this one's

mjb wrote:

I know this one's a little strange Loc. They believe He's the Son God but not actually God. (the Trinity Father Son and Holy Spirit all God but in three different forms.) http://biblia.com/christianity2/jehovah.htm

So I see,however your original statement was still false.You'll find people here willing to answer questions,but you hould be sure of your facts,particularly on something so easy to research.

I won't be able to reply again until tomorrow,I will do so though if you have more comments/questions.

Psalm 14:1 "the fool hath said in his heart there is a God"-From a 1763 misprinted edition of the bible

dudeofthemoment wrote:
This is getting redudnant. My patience with the unteachable[atheists] is limited.

Argument from Sadism: Theist presents argument in a wall of text with no punctuation and wrong spelling. Atheist cannot read and is forced to concede.


pauljohntheskeptic
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mjb wrote:As a Christian

mjb wrote:

As a Christian I've been combing this website to reply to a post. I only found one worth replying so now I'm going to ask some questions?

1. Why predominately target Christianity? Why not Muslims or Buddists, Jehova Witnesses, or Mormons? Why does this site have such a problem with the Christian faith?

As an ex-Lutheran, Christian, relapsed Catholic heretic I have the most experience with Christianity, though it is not the only target I pursue. They all belong on the Sci-Fi and Fantasy section in you local book store. I also live in the U.S. and have watched religion grow into our government. When I first entered school, the line "One Nation Under God" was not in the U.S. pledge of Allegiance, though I was in a religious school at the time. My parents wanted me to grow up to be a preacher, though I clearly went the other way.

Techinically Mormans are Christian as are Jehovah's Witnesses, they just have modified beliefs from many of the mainline Christian doctrines.

mjb wrote:

2. What is the point of all this discussion? If I told you tomorrow an earthquake would rip through New York City-  time would tell right? Why argue and poke fun at other beliefs? The last time I checked we don't live forever. So time will time tell. Right?

The point of all this discussion for me is to stop the erosion of freedoms in the U.S., educate Christians whenever possible in tolerance of the rights of others, and to do whatever I can to stop wacko religious fanatics from killing anymore innocent people.

If you have an earthquake warning system that has been proven to be highly accurate, you should contact the U.S. Geological Survey in Golden, Colorado at http://earthquake.usgs.gov/. If not the false warning could cause excessive expense and possible deaths in the evacuation.

In the same way, you give up the ability to do certain things as a believer in any religion. You give control of your life destiny to another, whether it be an imaginary god or the preacher in the church. You deceive yourself and operate based on principles that have no basis in reality. Thus I say you live your life based on an operating system that has errors. You know personally how that works out in Windows no doubt. Not well. You don't see the errors as you are flying down the highway of life, or you dismiss the warning signs that pop up here and there as not relevant to you.

mjb wrote:

As much as I could be seen as the "enemy view" I love all you guys and wish you the best lives.

As we are all humans, you aren't the enemy, just misguided by fantasy and the beliefs of ancient people who explained the world of the unknown by attributing it to the invisible guy in the sky.

 

____________________________________________________________
"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me

"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.


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mjb wrote:1.

mjb wrote:

1. Why predominately target Christianity? Why not Muslims or Buddists, Jehova Witnesses, or Mormons? Why does this site have such a problem with the Christian faith?

Because we live in the Western world. Many of us grew up in Christian families and its dogma affects us in our daily lives.

mjb wrote:
2. What is the point of all this discussion?

I don't know. I find it interesting.

mjb wrote:
If I told you tomorrow an earthquake would rip through New York City-  time would tell right?

So?

mjb wrote:
Why argue and poke fun at other beliefs?

Because they are worthless at best and detrimental to the individual and/or society at worst.

mjb wrote:
The last time I checked we don't live forever.

So?

mjb wrote:
God Bless

Hail Satan.


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mjb wrote:In response to is

mjb wrote:

In response to is Jehova Witness, Mormons etc. Christians?- No they are not Christians because they do not believe that Christ is God's one and only Son.

The Mormons believe that the Mormon Jesus is the Son of God (Aloheim) but also the brother of Luciffer. The Jehova Witness believe that Jesus was a prophet but but not God's one and only Son.

As the doctrine has Jesus dying for you and me to save our skins from the evil of Adam that we all inherited, they are technically Christians. Though the Mormons bought into a additional  con of the Moroni plates.

____________________________________________________________
"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me

"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.


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Jehova Witnesses- What they Believe

My apologies Loc,

for not doing my research. You are right they do believe that Jesus is the Son of God but they don`t believe he is God. Which means they do not believe in the trinity.  I found a confirmation of this from a JW here

 

I`ll talk to you later


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mjb wrote: The last time I

mjb wrote:

The last time I checked we don't live forever.

 

So?

So- we`ll find out the truth when we die.

Take Care.


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mjb wrote:MattShizzle

mjb wrote:

MattShizzle wrote:

1.

 

 

Read some of the other threads here before you post things that were already answered dozens of times on here. Evolution/natural selection is NOT random accident. I certainly don't believe I was poofed into existance by an invisible man who lives in the sky. Besides, even if humans were "created" the creator could just as easily be the Flying Spaghetti Monster as the Christarded god.

Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team


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Interesting reply

Now that`s a reply. Like I said to other members-

We`ll find out the truth when we die.

Have a good day!

 


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mjb wrote:So- we`ll find out

mjb wrote:

So- we`ll find out the truth when we die.

No, we won't. Our brain functions will have shut down. We will have no means by which to "find out" anything. We will simply cease to be.


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mjb wrote:I know this one's

mjb wrote:

I know this one's a little strange Loc. They believe He's the Son God but not actually God. (the Trinity Father Son and Holy Spirit all God but in three different forms.) http://biblia.com/christianity2/jehovah.htm

 

 

Then, mjb, it is you who have singled out your denomination, not the RRS. You're the one making any distinction.

 

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mjb wrote:As a Christian

mjb wrote:

As a Christian I've been combing this website to reply to a post. I only found one worth replying so now I'm going to ask some questions?

How am I supposed to know if you're going to ask questions?

mjb wrote:

1. Why predominately target Christianity? Why not Muslims or Buddists, Jehova Witnesses, or Mormons? Why does this site have such a problem with the Christian faith?

For those that do, it's familiarity, relevance or quantity. And there are many that don't. Don't feign persecution, I can't take the side stitches.

mjb wrote:

2. What is the point of all this discussion? If I told you tomorrow an earthquake would rip through New York City-  time would tell right? Why argue and poke fun at other beliefs? The last time I checked we don't live forever. So time will time tell. Right?

Gross. When you put all your value in a stupid mythical figure, it creates these nasty nihilistic counterpoints that most atheists simply don't experience. You end up asking questions like that. To (groan) answer your question, it's because the real world is affected by real people who are informed by ideas that may not be real; which affects all of us when it comes to society, culture, politics, etc. Even environmentalism is affected slightly by people believing we don't need to preserve the planet because Jesus will be back soon.

mjb wrote:

As much as I could be seen as the "enemy view" I love all you guys and wish you the best lives.

It would be touching if it weren't perfunctory and condescending.

 


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mjb wrote:In response to is

mjb wrote:

In response to is Jehova Witness, Mormons etc. Christians?- No they are not Christians because they do not believe that Christ is God's one and only Son.

This, right here, is the reason for these discussions. Note that it wasn't the "massive armies" part of my post that you immediately had to respond to. You're totally comfortable with nuclear armageddon, but get really upset if someone misrepresents your immaterial team.

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mjb wrote:As a Christian

mjb wrote:

As a Christian I've been combing this website to reply to a post. I only found one worth replying so now I'm going to ask some questions?

1. Why predominately target Christianity? Why not Muslims or Buddists, Jehova Witnesses, or Mormons? Why does this site have such a problem with the Christian faith?

2. What is the point of all this discussion? If I told you tomorrow an earthquake would rip through New York City-  time would tell right? Why argue and poke fun at other beliefs? The last time I checked we don't live forever. So time will time tell. Right?

As much as I could be seen as the "enemy view" I love all you guys and wish you the best lives.

God Bless,

www.achange.ca

[email protected]

Some great responses here. Take them to heart. Atheists are not your enemy, we are not anyone's enemy. Getting people to think outside their book and consider that what they believe may not be true, is the goal of skeptics.

There are tons of stereotypes Christians falsely have, just like at one point in history most whites would clutch their purse in an elevator if a black man walked in, some of that crap unfortunatly still exists.

Our advice is to treat everyone here as an idividual. Just as I don't equate all Muslims to Osama, just as I don't equate all Christians to Pat Robertson, do not assume all atheists are like me.

I will admit that I am one of those "frothy atheists" who is "in your face". But that is a matter of comfort on my part and your part. You will run into atheists who like the library type discussions and others like me, who don't take a verbal brawl personally. I am simply more comfortable in the boxing ring. I don't assume that the Christian who hops in there with me hates me.

Here is the truth about atheists.

1. We don't love Hitler.

2. We are not clones of each other. 

We come from all economic and political backgrounds. The only thing we have in  common is that we dont buy claims of the super natural, other than that, we are just as diverse and different as any theist label.

3. We don't want a lawless society.

4. We do have morals. We just don't assign them to coming from a magic lawgiver in the sky be it called Allah, Jesus or Osirus.

5. We wont give you cooties are BBQ your kittens.

I can only speak for the greatness of America because this is my home. Our Constitution is fantastic in that every question aimed at anything is fair game and no topic is taboo, including religion. And the founders clearly backed that up.

"Question with boldness even the existence of God, for if there be one, surely he would pay more homage to reason than to that of blindfolded fear" Thomas Jefferson.

Our goal is to spread reason and SHOW, not via force of government, but SHOW people that they don't need to guide their lives based on ancient stories.

Open your mind here and learn, and be unafraid to learn. No one is going to hate you personally, but if you don't make a case, we simply wont buy what you sell.

All of the atheists here have family members or co-workers or friends to some degree, some more than others, that are theists. Atheists don't desire a fascist state with an attitude of forcing the end of religion through government.

We do however, think more and more people, when given the opportunity to explore things other than ancient stories, will come to the conclusions we have. Many of us here once believed what you did. But it was through deep investigation and introspection that we were honest with ourselves and could no longer hold that position. We merely are offering you that same opportunity.

And one more thing. Other atheists here might not object to "God Bless", but I do, just as a Jew would object to eating a ham sandwich if you invited them to lunch. It is not my thing, it is your thing.

So at least with me, when responding to ME(because I only speak for me), don't end your posts with that. Others here might not mind, but I do.

The length of your stay depends on you. Treat us as individuals and don't preach and you will find that even if you don't change your position, you will at a minimum, see us as being just as human and diverse as any theist of any label.

 

 

 

 

 

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Why do you have a problem with my beliefs?

mjb wrote:

2. What is the point of all this discussion?

 

Well I'm someone who's life was poisoned by religion. I see how religion poisons everything. So it's part therapy to discuss and understand my past experiences with religion. Also hoping to be a part of making a positive change to the world by helping eradicate tyranny over the human mind. I see my fellow man as enslaved by religion and the fear of what happens after death. Should I just do nothing about this?

I also think human survival is dependant on rational thinking and and accurate understanding of how the universe actually works, not how we wish it could be, if we had a sugar daddy in the sky.

Also Christians are not content to live out their irrational beliefs in private, they insist on bringing it into schools, science, law and politics. They must be stopped.

Why do you have a problem with my beliefs?

 

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen


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mjb wrote:In response to is

mjb wrote:

In response to is Jehova Witness, Mormons etc. Christians?- No they are not Christians because they do not believe that Christ is God's one and only Son.

The Mormons believe that the Mormon Jesus is the Son of God (Aloheim) but also the brother of Luciffer. The Jehova Witness believe that Jesus was a prophet but but not God's one and only Son.

Google "True Scotsman Fallacy".

What you think others should believe or how they should behave is a separate issue than what is actually in their brain.

Pat Robertson and Jessie Jackson are both Christians and so is Mit Romney. They merely have different versions that they believe of "what is", but they all believe that Jesus is the son of god.

I don't make the mistake you do. I don't say, "that is not a true atheist". If someone says, "I lack belief in god or gods" they are an atheist, no matter how I think they should think or how they behave.

Don't feel bad, Muslims do the same thing. The Sunnis point at the Shiites and say, "They are not true Muslims" and the Shiites point at the Sunnis and say, "They are not true Muslims".

Your mistake is mixing two separate issues.

1. How you think people should think and behave.

Is completely separate from the issue of

2. What the person actually thinks in their brain.

All atheists have the common core of "lack of belief". Just as all Christians have the common core that Jesus was the son of god. Just as all Muslims have the common core that Allah is the one true god.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Islam is the Threat to Gay People

2) I don't understand the second question. Why have any intellectual or political discossion at all. Disscusion is how we improve ourselves and society.

1) As far as question 1 is concerned. I have to agree as a member of Amnesty Interntaional, I'm not so concerned with christianity, as it has been restrained in the 'west' by secular humanism. The threat to gay people comes from Islam.

Islamic countries still live in the middle ages, because they haven't accepted the two things which have changed western countries. 1) science 2) democracy.

It's only through these two things that christianity has been restrained, and i haven't been burned at the stake.

Philosophy is about questions that can't be answered.

Religion is about answers that can't be questioned.

 

 

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mjb wrote:The Mormons

mjb wrote:

The Mormons believe that the Mormon Jesus is the Son of God (Aloheim) but also the brother of Luciffer. The Jehova Witness believe that Jesus was a prophet but but not God's one and only Son.

Well, here's a tricky one: How's that wrong? If we are to take the God of Abraham (Elohim, Jehovah, YHVH, whatever) as 'The Father', as 'Abba', as we're led to throughout the judeo-christian teachings, then we are His children because He created us, and caused us to exist, yes?

Did He not also create, and cause to exist, Lucifer? Is Lucifer not, then, a 'child of God'? Are then not all of the angels, in a sense, our brethren, and brothers to Christ?

It seems like something's getting forgotten... a small thing, just one word, but it should be remembered that it's a distinction that's only been dropped from translations of the Nicene Creed in the last fifty or so years. I'll bold the relevent bit here:

Quote:

We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds, Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father;

etc

See the important bit? Not the 'only Son', but 'only-begotten Son'. If God is our Father, then Christ is not God's only son... but the only one who was formed of the very essence of God, the only one who, in a divine sense, is 'blood of my blood, flesh of my flesh' to God.

Considering that, how is Lucifer not a son of God, and a brother to Christ? How is he less these things than we are, which we are held to be by all Christian denominations, be they Baptists, Calvinists, Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, or Ethiopian Orthodox.

 

mjb wrote:

I know this one's a little strange Loc. They believe He's the Son God but not actually God. (the Trinity Father Son and Holy Spirit all God but in three different forms.) http://biblia.com/christianity2/jehovah.htm

Well, the Trinity wasn't fully canonized until the Council of Nicaea in 325... before that, there were plenty of Christian splinter groupd (Arianism, for example) that held that either Christ was not God, or that the Son had not always existed, but rather came to be as a facet of God with the birth of Christ. So, that really doesn't seem to exclude them from being 'Christian', simply from being Christian as set down by the Council of Nicaea. And given that not all of the Ecumenical Councils were adopted by all of the early Church (example: The Council of Chalcedon was never accepted by the Alexandrian Pope, or the churches under the administration of that Apostolic Throne), that doesn't really invalidate them at all.

"You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons." - The Waco Kid


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in response to HisWillness

His Willness wrote:

This, right here, is the reason for these discussions. Note that it wasn't the "massive armies" part of my post that you immediately had to respond to. You're totally comfortable with nuclear armageddon, but get really upset if someone misrepresents your immaterial team.

 

 I'm not upset Will.

I feel blessed talking with you guys. I'm very thankful for Loc's honesty about Christians that say things without doing their homework. Then we get defensive and put on a self righteous front and will not admit we are wrong.

I nearly fell into this when Loc pointed out something false that I said. You guys have taught me a lot about this and I thank all of you for the discussion.


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mjb wrote:His Willness

mjb wrote:

His Willness wrote:

This, right here, is the reason for these discussions. Note that it wasn't the "massive armies" part of my post that you immediately had to respond to. You're totally comfortable with nuclear armageddon, but get really upset if someone misrepresents your immaterial team.

 

 I'm not upset Will.

I feel blessed talking with you guys. I'm very thankful for Loc's honesty about Christians that say things without doing their homework. Then we get defensive and put on a self righteous front and will not admit we are wrong.

I nearly fell into this when Loc pointed out something false that I said. You guys have taught me a lot about this and I thank all of you for the discussion.

Nice to see you still around. I'm glad you've learned something here,I hope you'll keep posting. I admire that you can admit if you're wrong and didn't get unreasonably defensive.Please stick around and ask more questions if you have.

Psalm 14:1 "the fool hath said in his heart there is a God"-From a 1763 misprinted edition of the bible

dudeofthemoment wrote:
This is getting redudnant. My patience with the unteachable[atheists] is limited.

Argument from Sadism: Theist presents argument in a wall of text with no punctuation and wrong spelling. Atheist cannot read and is forced to concede.


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mjb wrote:I nearly fell into

mjb wrote:

I nearly fell into this when Loc pointed out something false that I said. You guys have taught me a lot about this and I thank all of you for the discussion.

Admirable self-control, especially when I was being more agressive than I needed to be. For that, I apologize. I hope you'll stick around to ask more questions.

Saint Will: no gyration without funkstification.
fabulae! nil satis firmi video quam ob rem accipere hunc mi expediat metum. - Terence


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I don't agree with

I don't agree with responding to theist claims as "the invisible guy in the sky" as a form of ridiculue. I see it repeated in here and I just don't think it's serious enough. If I was a theist coming here to learn more or to be challenged I would hope someone wouldn't resort that low of an intellectual discussion.

It's just as dumb as when creationists say we believe everything was an accident. You can use the invisible guy in the sky joke referring it to Christian metaphors, but they are much more serious than that and they deserve more seriousness.

Granted that ridicule or emotional appeal does have its place.

"Every true faith is infallible -- It performs what the believing person hopes to find in it. But it does not offer the least support for the establishing of an objective truth. Here the ways of men divide. If you want to achieve peace of mind and happiness, have faith. If you want to be a disciple of truth, then search." - Nietzsche


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ChosenByPasta wrote:I don't

ChosenByPasta wrote:
I don't agree with responding to theist claims as "the invisible guy in the sky" as a form of ridiculue. I see it repeated in here and I just don't think it's serious enough. If I was a theist coming here to learn more or to be challenged I would hope someone wouldn't resort that low of an intellectual discussion. It's just as dumb as when creationists say we believe everything was an accident. You can use the invisible guy in the sky joke referring it to Christian metaphors, but they are much more serious than that and they deserve more seriousness. Granted that ridicule or emotional appeal does have its place.

 

But that's exactly what Christians claim to believe: an impossible to describe or see (invisible) man who lives  in "the heavens" (the sky), who is all-powerful (magical), and who created everything (with magic), who sent his son to earth to teach people about heaven (magical kingdom in the sky) and how they can get there through communion (drinking his blood). He later died, was ressurrected and "ascended into heaven" (became a zombie and flew away), and later claimed that the world would be destroyed in armeggaddeon by various plauges, the Antichrist, and The Beast (everyone's going to get killed by magic bugs, magic toads, an evil magician, and a big magic monster who likes the number 666).


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Haha, well yeah but I think

Haha, well yeah but I think they take it much more seriously than that.

MJB, what is your opinion of it?

"Every true faith is infallible -- It performs what the believing person hopes to find in it. But it does not offer the least support for the establishing of an objective truth. Here the ways of men divide. If you want to achieve peace of mind and happiness, have faith. If you want to be a disciple of truth, then search." - Nietzsche


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ChosenByPasta wrote:Haha,

ChosenByPasta wrote:
Haha, well yeah but I think they take it much more seriously than that.

That's kind of the problem. What else but ridicule? What other reaction would you have to me claiming that Santa Claus (yes, the one and only Santa Claus) will repay you that money I owe you? You can't be sure that Santa isn't real, but you probably wouldn't let me get away with that.

People who believe in gods really do believe in invisible patriarchs (or, to a lesser extent, matriarchs). The fact that they take it seriously is even more worrisome.

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fabulae! nil satis firmi video quam ob rem accipere hunc mi expediat metum. - Terence


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I meant that they define it

I meant that they define it much more seriously than the way it was defined by theotherguy.


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Cowardly Question

mjb wrote:

As a Christian I've been combing this website to reply to a post. I only found one worth replying so now I'm going to ask some questions?

1. Why predominately target Christianity? Why not Muslims or Buddists, Jehova Witnesses, or Mormons? Why does this site have such a problem with the Christian faith?

As this thread shows (and the numerous others devoted to this question), the typical response is the American focus of this site.  However, I find this altogether trivial.  Why do christians ask this question in the first place?  If you have "the truth", you should be able to defend "the truth" against its critics, rather than deflecting criticism to other religions which you yourself don't consider truthful.  If jesus is for real, he should have the seeds to stand up for himself, rather than running scared to hide behind muhammad or buddha.  To ask this question betrays intellectual cowardice, and a lack of confidence in your professed beliefs. 

Several threads have been started addressing islam, mormonism and buddhism.  If the respective religions adherents aren't engaging the debate in any appreciable profusion, it is not through lack of effort on the part of this site.  I for one am more than eager to debate muslims.  You are welcome to go to your nearest mosque and ask your abrahamic in-laws why they don't want to chew the pork with us.

And just to make very clear the weakness and hypocrisy in this question...

"Why do christians predominately[sic] target evolutionary theory? Why not gravitational theory or atomic theory or optic theory or electromagnetic theory? Why does this religion have such a problem with the theory of evolution?" 

mjb wrote:

2. What is the point of all this discussion? If I told you tomorrow an earthquake would rip through New York City-  time would tell right? Why argue and poke fun at other beliefs? The last time I checked we don't live forever. So time will time tell. Right?

If I read the brochure right, jesus said he would return "before some of this generation have passed".  That generation passed.  jesus didn't return.

Time has told.  christianity fails.

 

 

There are no theists on operating tables.

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