where trump's policies really lead

iwbiek's picture



i just received word last night through my wife that our very good friend's brother, who's lived in the US illegally for twenty years and fathered three children there, had a court hearing day before yesterday and will be deported. he didn't come to america on a makeshift raft, nor smuggled in a fruit truck. he came from slovakia as a student, and by the time his student visa expired, he had already begun working and saw the opportunity for a new and better life for his family. i'm not sure why he didn't pursue legal status, but, having been through the process myself (in slovakia), i'm sure it had something to do with lack of funds and wanting to get down to the business of earning money and raising an upstanding family, rather than devoting precious time to an uncertain and needlessly byzantine process. he has since become a successful businessman and positive asset to the community. he hasn't been back to his home country in 17 or 18 years because he has always been afraid they won't let him back into the US. his oldest son, who was fathered in slovakia and thus is not an american citizen (so i'm told; i have no idea what his immigrant status is), is already so successful at 18 that he drives a tesla. now he may very well have to set aside his youthful dreams to become breadwinner for the family if they do not emigrate to slovakia, which is not an attractive option for them. or will the state now help bear the burden of raising these lawfully american children, now that they've taken away their primary provider? i doubt it.

in short, donnie dipshit just blew god knows how much of the taxpayers' money to haul this man before a court and begin deportation proceedings--a man who not only was no sort of tax burden, but actually a contributor to his community's commerce. then again, it's easy enough for that man-tanned mongoloid to pad his success statistics by deporting law-abiding, contributing illegals, who won't fire semiautomatics at immigration officers when they feel their coke stash is threatened.

fuck you, trump, and fuck anyone who defends you.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson

digitalbeachbum's picture

iwbiek wrote: fuck you,

iwbiek wrote:


fuck you, trump, and fuck anyone who defends you.

Perfect words that match my sentiments.

I had a fight with my mother the other day. I was explaining how things would end up if we continued on this course of action. I explained that she only saw specific parts, effectively cherry picking, which she liked and ignored the other parts of him. We started off ok but once I started to explain the details she didn't want to listen any more. I then called Trump a "fucking orange ass clown" to which she got so upset with me she started to cry. Not because I called him an ass clown, but because I used the word fucking.

It baffles me about that "cherry picking" because that word fucking wasn't directed at her. It was frustration that I feel every time I hear a trump support spew out stupidity on how he is going to make america great again and how he would be the best dictator this country has ever seen.

The reason why the word fucking bothers me is because I asked my mom, before the election, what she would do to her sons if they said that they "grabbed women by the pussy" and her reply was "that's locker room talk".

I looked at her and laughed. "you sound like a FOX news sound bite". She said, "no, it is locker room talk and that was meant to be private". WTF? I nearly slapped my mom.

If any of her sons talked like that in "the locker room" and she found out about it she would have slapped us silly. She would have been embarrassed. She never would want her children to speak that way about women.

Yet, she is willing to let the orange ass clown speak that way and also to degrade women.

My mom who was raped and harassed growing up in NYC and learned to stand up for herself and not to take any shit from men was now willing to let an orange faced buffoon fucktard the right to degrade women what my mom fought decades to defeat.

 

EXC's picture

I'm assuming the guy didn't

I'm assuming the guy avoided many taxes since he didn't have a SSN. Or did he steal someone's SSN and commit identity fraud? He took jobs illegally. He said fuck our labor laws. He is not Mr. Innocent., but you ignore the real story here.

So he signs an agreement that he wouild leave when he took the visa and then he just doesn't keep his word. And I'm supposed to want someone like that for my neighbor? Then the USA should stop all visas.

As far as compassion for his children, we don't let kids keep the money their parents stole from a bank, so I don't understand giving them citizenship.

So why have any laws, you just don't like some law, break it? I don't like paying taxes for his kids. So I'll just stop. Let's have total anarchy then. I'd prefer that over non-citizens getting to pick and choose what laws to follow.

As far as your great compassion, I don't think youi're inviting dozens of refugees to sleep in your living room. So you have limits to your compassion. So you can say fuck yourself since like me you don't have infinite compassion.

Before you tell me to fuck off, please tell us all the other laws he broke. He can't live as an illegal without breaking a myriad of laws. You tell us how great labor laws, inimmum wage and Social security is and this guy just said fuck these laws. Tell us all the laws the people that employed him broke. It is easier to tell me to fuck off than face the truth, so go ahead.

Also, please tell us what country would make a citizen of an American that broke their immigration, labor and identy theft laws? The answer is zero. So these are not Trump's rules there are the rules of every country except the USA(previously).

 

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen

iwbiek's picture

i never told you jackshit

i never told you jackshit about labor laws, minimum wage, or social security. and his kids, except the oldest, already have citizenship because they were born in america. it's called the 14th amendment.


of course he broke laws. every one of us breaks laws on a daily basis. but he also created jobs, employing american citizens in his company. job creation is supposed to be top of this administration's agenda. i found out today he actually showed up to court voluntarily in order to have his status legalized. now five photographers are out of a steady job to give xenophobic principles a victory.


now go have a fucking stroke already.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson

digitalbeachbum's picture

EXC wrote: I'm assuming the

EXC wrote:

I'm assuming the guy avoided many taxes since he didn't have a SSN. Or did he steal someone's SSN and commit identity fraud? He took jobs illegally. He said fuck our labor laws. He is not Mr. Innocent., but you ignore the real story here.

So he signs an agreement that he wouild leave when he took the visa and then he just doesn't keep his word. And I'm supposed to want someone like that for my neighbor? Then the USA should stop all visas.

As far as compassion for his children, we don't let kids keep the money their parents stole from a bank, so I don't understand giving them citizenship.

So why have any laws, you just don't like some law, break it? I don't like paying taxes for his kids. So I'll just stop. Let's have total anarchy then. I'd prefer that over non-citizens getting to pick and choose what laws to follow.

As far as your great compassion, I don't think youi're inviting dozens of refugees to sleep in your living room. So you have limits to your compassion. So you can say fuck yourself since like me you don't have infinite compassion.

Before you tell me to fuck off, please tell us all the other laws he broke. He can't live as an illegal without breaking a myriad of laws. You tell us how great labor laws, inimmum wage and Social security is and this guy just said fuck these laws. Tell us all the laws the people that employed him broke. It is easier to tell me to fuck off than face the truth, so go ahead.

Also, please tell us what country would make a citizen of an American that broke their immigration, labor and identy theft laws? The answer is zero. So these are not Trump's rules there are the rules of every country except the USA(previously).

You argument is a fallacy, it is null and void. Just because I do not invite a refugee in to my house doesn't mean I don't have compassion for them. I have limited space and limited funds to which I can feed my own family. I don't invite homeless people or any other needy people in to my house for the same reason. That's why we have services through the governments at various levels. That is what I expect from our government.

As for taxes, many people who work here illegally pay taxes every single day. They buy products from stores so they pay sales taxes. They also pay income taxes when they collect their checks, but as for legal citizens those illegals never file to they never get a refund (bonus for the government). They also pay state taxes and impact taxes, they pay other taxes too when depending on which state they are living in (maybe a gas tax or a school tax).

We all break laws every single day. We all do. You, me, your neighbors. We do it and we write it off because we think we are privileged. We believe, fuck that, I don't have to pay attention to that law because it is an inconvenience to me.

And I'll bet that every person at some time or another fudged the numbers on their income taxes, maybe rounded down or rounded up on some numbers, thinking "aw fuck the irs, what they don't know won't hurt them" or maybe "I deserve this or that because I'm a good little American"

You are fucking loony. You are a hypocrite. You are full of shit. If any thing you are more unAmerican that the illegals. You don't have the dream any more. You've been living in a pit of despair that you created for so long you don't want to see any one else succeed unless they are white and/or male.

 

digitalbeachbum's picture

EXC wrote:Also, please tell

EXC wrote:
Also, please tell us what country would make a citizen of an American that broke their immigration, labor and identy theft laws? The answer is zero. So these are not Trump's rules there are the rules of every country except the USA(previously).

And I'm betting you are suffering from the Dunning-Kruger effect.

You are misinformed and are completely unaware that you are misinformed. Trump is too.

Trump wants to build a wall and he thinks it will stop illegals? No, it won't. 9 out of 10 of them come through on planes or boats. Very few of them come across the border through Texas or Arizona(area)

Also, the fastest growing number of illegals is from India. More come from Asia than from the Hispanic community. They come over and then overstay their visa.

So why build a wall? Because Trump follows bullshit as much as he creates it. He is a fucking moron who believes urban myths. He listens to sources of information which are unfounded and feed his ego; and support his illogical assumptions.

It is mind blowing that so many people that I know are complete idiots. I'm finding out that people that live next to me believe the moon landing was fake. They believe Kennedy was shot by more than one shooter. They believe in the Loch Ness monster, Bigfoot and the Yeti. They also believe Trump will make 'america great again'.

Vastet's picture

Quote:And I'll bet that

Quote:
And I'll bet that every person at some time or another fudged the numbers on their income taxes, maybe rounded down or rounded up on some numbers, thinking "aw fuck the irs, what they don't know won't hurt them" or maybe "I deserve this or that because I'm a good little American"

Definitely not. By FAR, the average person is explicitly honest when doing taxes. Most errors are oversights or faulty memory, not intentional attempts to lie to the system.

Things might well be different with people who are well off enough to afford a personal finance assistant, but the average person doesn't bullshit on their taxes. The risk is too high and the reward is too low.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.

digitalbeachbum's picture

Vastet wrote:Definitely not.

Vastet wrote:
Definitely not. By FAR, the average person is explicitly honest when doing taxes. Most errors are oversights or faulty memory, not intentional attempts to lie to the system. Things might well be different with people who are well off enough to afford a personal finance assistant, but the average person doesn't bullshit on their taxes. The risk is too high and the reward is too low.

Show me the statistics.

People are deceptive every single day. There are exceptions, but the average for telling a lie is 1.65 per day. It's in our nature to lie.

People fudge numbers all the time. They round up and down. No one says "oh, I've had 400.25 miles of business travels."

And I'm not saying they lie to get more money or make grand lies. I'm saying that if you round up when you aren't supposed to then you are lying. I'm saying people throw on a few extra miles or they are a person who picks up sales receipts other people dropped to have more sales tax to write off. Or maybe they claim they did something they didn't do.

Studies have shown that when given the chance, people will lie more when money is involved.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/04/14/this-unusual-test-reveals-how-smart-you-are/?utm_term=.45ac8ef8ab02

 

Vastet's picture

There are no statistics. I

There are no statistics. I have years of experience doing taxes for people though, which trumps your assumptions and unrelated and irrelevant statistics.

If you do any rounding on your taxes, you're doing your own taxes. Which automatically puts you in a significant minority. And puts you at risk for fraud, which certainly isn't worth saving a few dollars a year. Most people are honest with their taxes. Period.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.

digitalbeachbum's picture

Vastet wrote:There are no

Vastet wrote:
There are no statistics. I have years of experience doing taxes for people though, which trumps your assumptions and unrelated and irrelevant statistics. If you do any rounding on your taxes, you're doing your own taxes. Which automatically puts you in a significant minority. And puts you at risk for fraud, which certainly isn't worth saving a few dollars a year. Most people are honest with their taxes. Period.

Wow. You do taxes so that means what ever you say about taxes must be true. All hail the great tax expert. He doesn't need statistics or any science to determine the truth. He looks in to his crystal ball and tells all!

Vastet's picture

Wow, you're becoming

Wow, you're becoming Brian38. Look at all the bullshit you claim I said, despite the irrefutable and evidenced fact I never said anything of the sort. You must be pissed because I'm right and you can't prove otherwise.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.

digitalbeachbum's picture

Vastet wrote:Wow, you're

Vastet wrote:
Wow, you're becoming Brian38. Look at all the bullshit you claim I said, despite the irrefutable and evidenced fact I never said anything of the sort. You must be pissed because I'm right and you can't prove otherwise.

Mr Taxman speaks! Ssssssh! Every one stop and listen.

EXC's picture

 Of course illegal

 Of course illegal immigration is going to make regular citizens break the law. If your competitor in a construction business is paying less than minimum, not paying taxes for employees, etc.. Your going to have to break laws too or go out of business. That is why if you have any laws you can't decide to just not enforce them.

You tell us how sucessful he is as a businessman and this is supposed to change my mind. This just means he hired illegals, identity fraud, avoided taxes and regulations to beat out his competitors that played by the rules. It makes me want to lock him up and then deport his ass.

And if illegals are breaking the law all over the place to survive in America, why is the Soros/Turner funded media constantly telling us they are not. Every time they spew these lies, just think how impossible it would be to survive in USA with an SSN.

Can someone explain the insane leftist that are so proud of the fight for labor rights such as safe working conditions, minimum wage, workman's comp, etc... And then are OK with illegals and the people that employ them giving a big huge middle finger to these laws?

Also birthright citizenship has never been tested in courts for children of illegals. Judges can make the constitution say whatever they want it to say.

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen

Vastet's picture

digitalbeachbum wrote:Vastet

digitalbeachbum wrote:

Vastet wrote:
Wow, you're becoming Brian38. Look at all the bullshit you claim I said, despite the irrefutable and evidenced fact I never said anything of the sort. You must be pissed because I'm right and you can't prove otherwise.

Mr Taxman speaks! Ssssssh! Every one stop and listen.

Classic fail. XD

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.

Vastet's picture

EXC wrote:Can someone

EXC wrote:
Can someone explain the insane leftist that are so proud of the fight for labor rights such as safe working conditions, minimum wage, workman's comp, etc... And then are OK with illegals and the people that employ them giving a big huge middle finger to these laws?

If the system were set up properly, they wouldn't be illegal and their working conditions wouldn't be either. Your biggest problem is that you attribute the wrong causes to problems, making you incapable of finding solutions.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.

iwbiek's picture

EXC wrote:This just means he

EXC wrote:
This just means he hired illegals



i have already told you, and i don't know how much fucking clearer i can be, but i'll try:


he hired natural. born. american. citizens.


at least five natural. born. american. citizens. are now out of a job because an administration that promised job growth to natural. born. american. citizens. instead decided to pander to their neo-nazi fanbase. not that i blame them. it's much easier and cheaper to make racists love you than find millions of jobs for natural. born. american. citizens.


would you like me to get you the contact info of these natural. born. american. citizens.? perhaps you can offer these natural. born. american. citizens. a legit, everything above-board job, since you suddenly seem to care what happens to human beings other than yourself. and don't forget to ask for notarized, apostilled, long-form birth certificates to prove they are natural. born. american. citizens.


no one won or benefited from this other than idealogues like you. don't you have some AIDS to catch or something?

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson

iwbiek's picture

Vastet wrote:Your biggest

Vastet wrote:
Your biggest problem is that you attribute the wrong causes to problems, making you incapable of finding solutions.



that's right! he thinks it's overpopulation, when it's actually EVOLUTION!

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson

digitalbeachbum's picture

EXC wrote: Of course illegal

EXC wrote:

Of course illegal immigration is going to make regular citizens break the law. If your competitor in a construction business is paying less than minimum, not paying taxes for employees, etc.. Your going to have to break laws too or go out of business. That is why if you have any laws you can't decide to just not enforce them.

And if illegals are breaking the law all over the place to survive in America, why is the Soros/Turner funded media constantly telling us they are not. Every time they spew these lies, just think how impossible it would be to survive in USA with an SSN.

Also birthright citizenship has never been tested in courts for children of illegals. Judges can make the constitution say whatever they want it to say.

I just realized something. You like so many others think that people work for cash/under the table? Could it be that easy? People who are illegal pay income tax and other taxes. The employer takes out all the normal taxes as they do for legal workers. Of course there are people who are illegal who do work under the table, but even those poor saps picking oranges submit paperwork to the produce companies and they are processed as being legal. Produce companies aren't forced to verify the paperwork. They are only required to accept the paperwork that is turned in.

Actually it is very easy for an illegal to survive here with out a SSN. In fact, many of them work with out it. There is a program using H-2A visas.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1307/14/se.01.html

When you say 'birthright' are you talking about anchor babies?

EXC's picture

iwbiek wrote: he hired

iwbiek wrote:

he hired natural. born. american. citizens.
at least five natural. born. american. citizens. are now out of a job because an administration that promised job growth to natural. born. american. citizens. instead decided to pander to their neo-nazi fanbase. not that i blame them.

So his competitor now hires 5 people because this guy is out of business.

What do we know for a fact? The guy is dishonest, the guy has no problem with breaking the law. So why should you, I or anyone else beleive anything he claims? Of course he is not going to admit to any crimes he commited. Sorry, but I don't believe liars and criminals, usually the opposite of what they say is true.

But I know we must ignore common sense and believe the Soros/Ted Turner funded propaganda machine that constantly tells us they do no harm. All the while the media tells us about the affordable housing/homeless traffic crisis in major cities and the lack of jobs in rural areas. But you must believe having millions of legal and illegal immigrants has no affect on either of these situations. Please turn off CNN and use your brain.

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen

EXC's picture

digitalbeachbum wrote:I just

digitalbeachbum wrote:

I just realized something. You like so many others think that people work for cash/under the table? Could it be that easy? People who are illegal pay income tax and other taxes. The employer takes out all the normal taxes as they do for legal workers. Of course there are people who are illegal who do work under the table, but even those poor saps picking oranges submit paperwork to the produce companies and they are processed as being legal. Produce companies aren't forced to verify the paperwork. They are only required to accept the paperwork that is turned in.

Actually it is very easy for an illegal to survive here with out a SSN. In fact, many of them work with out it. There is a program using H-2A visas.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1307/14/se.01.html

When you say 'birthright' are you talking about anchor babies?

I suppose some illegals that steal someone's SSN pay income taxes while commiting identy fraud. But you are blind to a huge underground economy that ignores all the labor laws. Basically not much has changed since before the civil war. The elites are able to import foreign slave labor and treat them any way they please. The slaves live in sub-standard overcrowded living conditions. The rich get richer whlle the working middle class pays the price. It is enevitable that this will lead to a second civil war.

You've gotten my positions all wrong.

I'm not racist, I'm against all immigration from anywhere until we solve our overpopulation problem. The media lies and tells you these people are escaping violence and lawlessness in their own country. So that means we should accept lawlessness in the USA? The fact is it is population pressures in the own country driving them, but the media can't discuss this. So called science believes population pressures exist in all species except of course homo-sapiens.

I'd love to have open borders, but until the world decide that mandatory birth control is necessary, I have to defend myself from TMFP.

I'm not for the wall, it won't work. I'm for jailing and heavily fining anyone that hires illegals or rents to them. But Trump and the elites won't talk about this, because they want the cheap labor and expensive rents.

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen

EXC's picture

Vastet wrote:If the system

Vastet wrote:
If the system were set up properly, they wouldn't be illegal and their working conditions wouldn't be either. Your biggest problem is that you attribute the wrong causes to problems, making you incapable of finding solutions.

So you're for open borders, but you would severly punish anyone that violates labor laws? Could a poor immigrant that couldn't get a job because the labor regulations make them too expensive to hire just go on the welfare rolls? How would the country avoid bankruptcy? Are there any limits to the compassion?

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen

iwbiek's picture

EXC wrote:iwbiek wrote: he

EXC wrote:

iwbiek wrote:

he hired natural. born. american. citizens.
at least five natural. born. american. citizens. are now out of a job because an administration that promised job growth to natural. born. american. citizens. instead decided to pander to their neo-nazi fanbase. not that i blame them.

So his competitor now hires 5 people because this guy is out of business.

What do we know for a fact? The guy is dishonest, the guy has no problem with breaking the law. So why should you, I or anyone else beleive anything he claims? Of course he is not going to admit to any crimes he commited. Sorry, but I don't believe liars and criminals, usually the opposite of what they say is true.

But I know we must ignore common sense and believe the Soros/Ted Turner funded propaganda machine that constantly tells us they do no harm. All the while the media tells us about the affordable housing/homeless traffic crisis in major cities and the lack of jobs in rural areas. But you must believe having millions of legal and illegal immigrants has no affect on either of these situations. Please turn off CNN and use your brain.




i have no doubt you're a liar and criminal both.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson

digitalbeachbum's picture

EXC wrote:I suppose some

EXC wrote:
I suppose some illegals that steal someone's SSN pay income taxes while commiting identy fraud. But you are blind to a huge underground economy that ignores all the labor laws. Basically not much has changed since before the civil war. The elites are able to import foreign slave labor and treat them any way they please. The slaves live in sub-standard overcrowded living conditions. The rich get richer whlle the working middle class pays the price. It is enevitable that this will lead to a second civil war.

You've gotten my positions all wrong.

I'm against all immigration from anywhere until we solve our overpopulation problem. The media lies and tells you these people are escaping violence and lawlessness in their own country. So that means we should accept lawlessness in the USA? The fact is it is population pressures in the own country driving them, but the media can't discuss this. So called science believes population pressures exist in all species except of course homo-sapiens.

I'd love to have open borders, but until the world decide that mandatory birth control is necessary, I have to defend myself from TMFP.

I'm not for the wall, it won't work. I'm for jailing and heavily fining anyone that hires illegals or rents to them. But Trump and the elites won't talk about this, because they want the cheap labor and expensive rents.

That's a terribly negative position to take; you must be a sad and lonely person.

EXC's picture

The loneliest people are the

The loneliest people are the ones crammed into overcrowded cities. They don't know their neighbors or have any sense of community. They work a lot to pay the rent and sit in traffic to go anywhere. And people in rural America are force to move to these cities due to lack of jobs in their area. Another effect of TMFP. But you must believe immigration is all good, your corporate masters require this of you.

Can't win an argument with facts and rationality. So just make ad-hominem attacks. Attack the messenger with speculation and not facts, should I take this as admitting you can't defend your beliefs?

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen

Vastet's picture

EXC wrote:I suppose some

EXC wrote:
I suppose some illegals that steal someone's SSN pay income taxes while commiting identy fraud. But you are blind to a huge underground economy that ignores all the labor laws. Basically not much has changed since before the civil war. The elites are able to import foreign slave labor and treat them any way they please. The slaves live in sub-standard overcrowded living conditions. The rich get richer whlle the working middle class pays the price. It is enevitable that this will lead to a second civil war.

I'm sure that does happen, but it is exceptionally rare and has no impact on the country as a whole. Even if every one of the top 1% earners hired 5 imported slave workers and paid them squat, we're talking about 5% of the population. Not to mention that's a ridiculously overstated figure, as most people in the top 1% don't employ any illegal aliens; let alone multiple illegal aliens.

EXC wrote:
The media lies and tells you these people are escaping violence and lawlessness in their own country.

That isn't a lie. Many people who come to North America are fleeing conflict. Ironically, that conflict is almost always the responsibility of the US.

EXC wrote:
So that means we should accept lawlessness in the USA?

Your logic isn't working. These people are fleeing a lawless environment to take shelter in a lawful environment. The last thing they want is to have nowhere left to run.

EXC wrote:
The fact is it is population pressures in the own country driving them, but the media can't discuss this.

That is a lie. Most conflicts on Earth can be traced to a very small handful of nations. In no particular order: England, Spain, France, America, Germany, and Russia are directly responsible for more than 90% of global conflicts over the last 300 years. Some of these nations even get credit for all conflicts involving Israel, since they created Israel.
The number of conflicts started because of overpopulation? 0.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.

Vastet's picture

EXC wrote:So you're for open

EXC wrote:
So you're for open borders, but you would severly punish anyone that violates labor laws?

Crude but close enough. I'm for a global government, so there wouldn't be borders.

EXC wrote:
Could a poor immigrant that couldn't get a job because the labor regulations make them too expensive to hire just go on the welfare rolls?

Most likely an immigrant will be better educated than a local and will be cheaper to hire than a local, because your education system is garbage. If not for immigration, the US would already be a third world power. You depend on immigration to pay for welfare for your local population.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.

Brian37's picture

EXC wrote:I'm assuming the

EXC wrote:

I'm assuming the guy avoided many taxes since he didn't have a SSN. Or did he steal someone's SSN and commit identity fraud? He took jobs illegally. He said fuck our labor laws. He is not Mr. Innocent., but you ignore the real story here.

So he signs an agreement that he wouild leave when he took the visa and then he just doesn't keep his word. And I'm supposed to want someone like that for my neighbor? Then the USA should stop all visas.

As far as compassion for his children, we don't let kids keep the money their parents stole from a bank, so I don't understand giving them citizenship.

So why have any laws, you just don't like some law, break it? I don't like paying taxes for his kids. So I'll just stop. Let's have total anarchy then. I'd prefer that over non-citizens getting to pick and choose what laws to follow.

As far as your great compassion, I don't think youi're inviting dozens of refugees to sleep in your living room. So you have limits to your compassion. So you can say fuck yourself since like me you don't have infinite compassion.

Before you tell me to fuck off, please tell us all the other laws he broke. He can't live as an illegal without breaking a myriad of laws. You tell us how great labor laws, inimmum wage and Social security is and this guy just said fuck these laws. Tell us all the laws the people that employed him broke. It is easier to tell me to fuck off than face the truth, so go ahead.

Also, please tell us what country would make a citizen of an American that broke their immigration, labor and identy theft laws? The answer is zero. So these are not Trump's rules there are the rules of every country except the USA(previously).

 

There is a huge difference between what a poor mirgant does to survive in staying here illegally and say something like what Bernie Madoff did, or even what Wells Fargo did. People staying here illegally are a majority non violent first off. They don't move here to cause problems, but to survive and feed themselves and their families. That is not the same as having means and ripping people off. 

People migrate to where the resources are, our species has always done that. If you cant see that then I feel sorry for you and you lack a very basic aspect of our evolution, empathy. Nobody is saying we should not deport anyone ever. Nobody is saying we should be lawless. Nobody is saying we should not deport violent individuals. What matters is each individual and each family, and it is inumane to use blanket solutions.

It costs more to keep migrants off the books than to allow them in the sunlight. Migrants whom are afraid of deportation are less likely to report crimes. In turn that costs us more in police, prisons and hospital bills. In places where migrants are not living in the shaddows or fear of deportation, the cost is lower.

But it is also insane to think taking 12 million people out of our economy whom buy products and do work would save us money. It would be literally like cutting off one's leg. That would be a very huge loss of revenue for businesses and taxes on products.

The only sane thing you can do is revise it to keep more violent people out and revise it for the non violent people so they can be open and have the ability to contribute.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37

digitalbeachbum's picture

EXC wrote:The loneliest

EXC wrote:

The loneliest people are the ones crammed into overcrowded cities. They don't know their neighbors or have any sense of community. They work a lot to pay the rent and sit in traffic to go anywhere. And people in rural America are force to move to these cities due to lack of jobs in their area. Another effect of TMFP. But you must believe immigration is all good, your corporate masters require this of you.

Can't win an argument with facts and rationality. So just make ad-hominem attacks. Attack the messenger with speculation and not facts, should I take this as admitting you can't defend your beliefs?

Exe,

What is your main source of news? Do you read newspapers? online sources? television? radio?

Brian37's picture

EXC wrote:The loneliest

EXC wrote:

The loneliest people are the ones crammed into overcrowded cities. They don't know their neighbors or have any sense of community. They work a lot to pay the rent and sit in traffic to go anywhere. And people in rural America are force to move to these cities due to lack of jobs in their area. Another effect of TMFP. But you must believe immigration is all good, your corporate masters require this of you.

Can't win an argument with facts and rationality. So just make ad-hominem attacks. Attack the messenger with speculation and not facts, should I take this as admitting you can't defend your beliefs?

What a load of bullshit. Happiness isn't what you think others do. I have lived in the suburbs of DC and visited DC growing up countless times. Lots of the things I did in DC I enjoyed tremendously and did so with others. Concerts, sporting events, museums, and protest rallies to name a few. Go into any city bar and you will see the same thing as you do a rural country bar, people talking and interacting. 

City living is more expensive yes, but not because the people living in them are unhappy or uncaring, that is a load of bullshit. If anything make us more disconnected it is because the cost of living drives us to be disconnected because we have no time to slow down and intereact. But even then, that is absurd to claim every single city dweller as an individual is unhappy.

And I can tell you out here in the sticks crime exists and cost of living also has a gap that people cannot keep up with. City living costs more sure, but in rural areas you also get paid less, so the ratio in the gap really isn't that different. It is simply harder on the poor no matter where they live city or rural.

 

 

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37

Brian37's picture

EXC wrote:Vastet wrote:If

EXC wrote:

Vastet wrote:
If the system were set up properly, they wouldn't be illegal and their working conditions wouldn't be either. Your biggest problem is that you attribute the wrong causes to problems, making you incapable of finding solutions.

So you're for open borders, but you would severly punish anyone that violates labor laws? Could a poor immigrant that couldn't get a job because the labor regulations make them too expensive to hire just go on the welfare rolls? How would the country avoid bankruptcy? Are there any limits to the compassion?

You are one scared little bitch aren't you? Please tell me when has it ever been illegal to be a human being? I am sick of my species thinking we are so different, we are not. Our species has always migrated. Our species started out in Africa. DNA proves our species is related.

Most humans regardless of boarders ARE NOT violent! Laws are needed YES. It would be nice if everyone waited in line. But your bullshit blanket solution of cattle car solutions is right out of WW2 Germany. Inhumane. Don't give me any bullshit that if you were starving, or your family were starving, or you were trying to flee violence, you won't try to escape that. THAT is why people come here. Most people legal or illegal ARE NOT comming here to fuck you over.

No I will not use blanket solutions to solve what needs to be case by case and family by family. I will not send, especially kids, back to places they did not grow up in, and or could starve or die. I will not break up families because assholes like you think boarders make us a separate species. CASE BY CASE is the only humane way to do it.

I have Hispanics living on both sides of me. I don't know their status nor am I about to ask. I would report them if they were violent or drug dealers, but I would do the same if they were white and born here. They are not violent so I could give a fuck less. They have been nothing but good neighbors.

I am sorry the world is so scary to you so needlessly, but that is your baggage. Your bullshit fear of others is just as bad as when our Christian right fears gays being open and having rights. 

You, "Bad shit happens"

Me, "No shit, but fear is not the way to solve those problems, neither is bigotry".

You want to treat others as a sub species, you are an idiot!

 

 

 

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37

EXC's picture

Brian37 wrote:You are one

Brian37 wrote:

You are one scared little bitch aren't you? Please tell me when has it ever been illegal to be a human being? I am sick of my species thinking we are so different, we are not. Our species has always migrated. Our species started out in Africa. DNA proves our species is related.

Most humans regardless of boarders ARE NOT violent! Laws are needed YES. It would be nice if everyone waited in line. But your bullshit blanket solution of cattle car solutions is right out of WW2 Germany. Inhumane. Don't give me any bullshit that if you were starving, or your family were starving, or you were trying to flee violence, you won't try to escape that. THAT is why people come here. Most people legal or illegal ARE NOT comming here to fuck you over.

No I will not use blanket solutions to solve what needs to be case by case and family by family. I will not send, especially kids, back to places they did not grow up in, and or could starve or die. I will not break up families because assholes like you think boarders make us a separate species. CASE BY CASE is the only humane way to do it.

I have Hispanics living on both sides of me. I don't know their status nor am I about to ask. I would report them if they were violent or drug dealers, but I would do the same if they were white and born here. They are not violent so I could give a fuck less. They have been nothing but good neighbors.

I am sorry the world is so scary to you so needlessly, but that is your baggage. Your bullshit fear of others is just as bad as when our Christian right fears gays being open and having rights. 

You, "Bad shit happens"

Me, "No shit, but fear is not the way to solve those problems, neither is bigotry".

You want to treat others as a sub species, you are an idiot!

We are also related to all the other animals and plants on the planets. So by your so called logic, we must let them all live. if there are too many wild cats and dogs in your city, the humane society should just let them be. Too many rats and mice same story. Mosquitos spreading diesease in your county? Can't spray, they are our cousins with DNA as well.

In fact, all those viruses and bacteria constantly attacking your immune system. They are all part of the tree of life, you must sacrafice yourself and let them live. Please do this now, there are tapeworms looking for host just like you, show your compassion for them. DNA proves we are related.

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen